Who takes majority blame for the Lakers poor start to this season?

troy · Star Player Joined: 30 Jan 2013 Posts: 4975

We are definitely underperforming, even though we can certainly turn it all around. But still, who should take the MOST (not all, but the majority) of the blame for this poor start, and why?

defense · Retired Number Joined: 12 Jan 2010 Posts: 39445

Who ever put the team together. Stevie wonder could see this was not a good mix of players.

hydrohead · Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:30 am Post subject:

Guess I'll be the first to vote for injuries.
With the turnover of the roster (thanks to LBJ-AD-Rob) we need a healthy squad to be able to develop an true style of play. Injuries have kept key players off the floor to be able to develop that.
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2019 · Franchise Player Joined: 03 Dec 2014 Posts: 10801

All of them deserve some and it's a trick down effect where the people at the bottom will get the most blame and that's where the water gathers. Which in this case, it's Vogel.But the truth is this roster is deep but majority flawed.. players deserve some blame for not being better, Vogel for not finding ways to be more creative offensively, Pelinka for putting together this roster.

But at the end of the day, it's all done at the behest of Jeanie who while she did commit to spending money, she didn't go all in. She loves her poker analogies but she didn't follow them.. This was the year to spend as much as needed. There's no reason why we don't have AC as the starting 2 guard and Dennis as the 6th man. That would have left the mMLE for a wing like Otto Porter Jr. Then you have THT as a S&T possibility.

So I guess the blame trickles down but the reasoning started at the top. Pelinka is the man in the middle of balancing all of it and he clearly went with Russ knowing he'd have to go bargain bin shopping for cheap vets around the new big 3.

wolfpaclaker · Retired Number Joined: 29 May 2002 Posts: 58336

#1 Lebron injury
#2 Westbrook for taking time fitting in (he now fits, but the first few weeks were bad)
#3 Rob for not adding enough perimeter defenders for Vogel
#4 AD's mentality not being consistent enough to be the best player on the floor each night

wolfpaclaker · Retired Number Joined: 29 May 2002 Posts: 58336

We are 7-4 with Bron, so if Bron misses only a few games, we're likely facing the same issues we are now, but we sit somewhere like 14-8 and the team is 3rd or 4th in the conference. I don't think we are better than the 3rd or 4th best team in the West. It's the reality of the situation, IMO.

BILBJH · Star Player Joined: 23 Jul 2020 Posts: 5118

It's a worst case scenario if we play around the third or fourth best team in the west because it's good enough that they will just stay the course and possibly resign Russ and LBJ for long contracts... but not good enough to win a title.

As I've said before... if LBJ was younger, then none of this would be an issue because Russ and AD are good enough sidekicks to take young LBJ to the finals.

But Russ and AD with old LBJ will likely accomplish nothing other than making the playoffs.

I don't want to see the team crash and burn... especially with no draft picks... but if it means not signing Russ long term, it might be worth paying the short term price.

Lamar's Bud · Star Player Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 2232

The criticism of Rob "breaking up" a championship team is so misguided. Due to free agency, there's always roster turnover. Most of the championship team returned for last season and it just didn't work. Trez and Marc ended up not being good fits and LeBron/AD were not healthy. Rob is seemingly just the FO figurehead right now with LeBron doing most (all) of recruiting.

Coaching plays a part, but it's really upon the players to find cohesion and perform. I can't look at this situation and say that it's Vogel's fault and that changing coaches will yield a better result. The players need to figure it out. I'm placing most of the blame on this poor start on LeBron not being healthy and AD forgetting how to play like he did in the championship season.

I'm disappointed with what we've seen so far, no doubt. But I also think it's premature to consider this a failure yet. The Heatles struggled a lot in their first season and still made it to the finals. This group is talented enough to make a run if they can figure it out and avoid major injury...that's just a big "IF" at this point.

wolfpaclaker · Retired Number Joined: 29 May 2002 Posts: 58336

^
I think when we talk about "break up" we talk about the Danny Green for Dennis move. I feel that one move changed everything. In how we played. We went into dual guard mode, instead of Bron as PG, two shooting wings, AD and a big. Now it's Bron and Dennis as dual PGs, 1 shooting wing, AD, and a big.

That was a massive change, one I was never really a fan of. Now they just upgraded from Dennis to Westbrook. But it cost LA so many important wing/guards who defended.

Overall I agree championship teams role players tend to change. It's just that our changes led to a change in how we played, too. Instead of Bron leading the league in assists 2 years ago, he's become more of an off the ball scoring threat. He's shooting a lot more 3s. But this all could be by design of team Lebron. Lebron may not have wanted to continue playing the PG position full time. If that's the case, then I don't blame Rob for what he's done in that regard. Bron played the PG spot full time 2 years ago. However last year and this year, he is more of a dual PG/wing. There's been a big shift in his role, and also that's affected how we use AD. In that sense, I see change. The Lakers view this as making them better in the big picture. Lets see. Didn't like the make up of the team with Dennis being the PG last year, and while Westbrook is definitely better the net result hasn't been the positive impact they were probably thinking of.

SGV-Laker fan · Star Player Joined: 23 May 2013 Posts: 8858

Where’s the vote for Jeannie Buss for penny pinching field out rest of the roster?

mad55557777 · Franchise Player Joined: 29 Jun 2005 Posts: 23128

lakersfever714 · Franchise Player Joined: 05 Jan 2016 Posts: 11753

Pelinka is the ultimate decider on all personnel decisions. Lebron could give his inputs but it's Pelinka's job to act on those inputs. Absent of concrete evidence, people shouldn't make baseless claims about Bron and Klutch running the Lakers.

As far as I'm concerned, Pelinka was responsible for the Lakers roster from the day he became GM. He was responsible for our latest championship, lucky or not. He is responsible for the team today.

Lamar's Bud · Star Player Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 2232

governator · Retired Number Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 25075

The superstars then the coaching staffs

venturalakersfan · Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:38 pm Post subject:

Plenty of blame to go around. Sadly, they have dug an 8 game hole in the division.
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LakerSD · Franchise Player Joined: 10 Nov 2016 Posts: 23778

30% AD
20% LeGM
20% Vogel
15% Lakers FO
15% Jeanie/Ownership decisions

danzag · Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 2:41 pm Post subject:

Half Pelinka, half injuries

deal · Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 4:01 pm Post subject:

Poor team makeup, poor results. Letting LeBron and company run
things is a terrible plan.

It's on management letting others make the decisions and for not
building a winning team.

Also, it's on LG for not being load enough, lol...just kidding...
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2019 · Franchise Player Joined: 03 Dec 2014 Posts: 10801

Jeanie gets a whole bunch of blame for not opening wallet as much as possible... that included AC and Dennis via bird rights. Paying extra for those 2 allowed us to use the mMLE to address a bigger wing (Porter Jr or Rudy Gay). The spending concerns seems to carry across the board.. not just players.

But Rob also likely knew exactly what her threshold to spend was and decided bringing in Russ and then cheaper ancillary parts on minimum deals was the more prudent move. Was he influenced by LeBron/AD.. 100% but he also has final say. As of today, Russ is playing better so I won't get tooo upset at that deal but we could have targeted much better options for the minimum ie guys like Bjelica, Hartenstein, etc.

Vogel then has done a terrible job finding a system to work for this team on both sides of the floor so major blame is assigned there. He should have done better. But was it fully his fault they didn't go after a higher priced bench staff or was that back to Jeanie and Rob trying to save costs? Frank never struck me as an ego guy.. the dude took the job under the weirdest circumstances knowing that Kidd was waiting in the wings.

LeBron and AD run this team so if effort is the issue, it falls on them two.

deal · Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 4:34 pm Post subject:

Outspoken · Star Player Joined: 11 Feb 2015 Posts: 8450

Probably Jeanie and Rob.

methdxman · Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:35 pm Post subject:

Pelinka, Jeanie, AD, in no particular order.

Younger fans are giving AD a pass, but you can't pay a guy 159 million, expecting him to get the torch handed over to him and not perform like a franchise player.

At this point it's going to become impossible for him to half his jersey in the rafters.

Lakerz113 · Star Player Joined: 15 Mar 2015 Posts: 2445

We’re these the players Pelinka wanted or LbJ?

Vancouver Fan · Franchise Player Joined: 17 Apr 2006 Posts: 17740

Ownership and Rob.

This team is old and there's nothing to look forward to.
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cthroatgtr · Star Player Joined: 21 Aug 2005 Posts: 1375

Started with dropping Jones for Drummond. Then if you are going to risk adding Drummond, maybe keep him around instead of letting him sign min with the Sixers (he would still be better than DJ at this point). Then further boneheaded moves...letting Caruso go for nothing; trading away the depth for Westbrook; signing too many small guards to fill out the roster. I mean if you wanted to go small with AD at center, your forwards are Ariza, LBJ & Melo. You expected to guard who with that group? After those three an entire roster of undersized guards. Rob overthought it last year, then went nuclear this year.