Mistakes of the Front Office from Last Season?
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Nash Vegas
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 11:38 pm    Post subject: Mistakes of the Front Office from Last Season?

This off-season feels like a do-over of the last off-season, to correct everything they did wrong last year:

Quote:
1) Letting Dwight walk last year, only to bring Dwight back again this year

2) Trading JaVale last year, only to sign a player with similar play styles this year in DeAndre

3) Letting Rondo go without signing another playmaker last year, only to trade for Westbrook and bring Rondo back again this year

4) Even signing Damian Jones last year but not renewing his contract, then reports come out that before the Lakers went after DJ, they actually tried going after Jones again before Sacramento swooped in to guarantee his contract


Have the Lakers finally corrected their mistakes from last year?

Are there still some mistakes from last season they might have missed?

Or are there some new mistakes that they might have made this season?
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 12:02 am    Post subject:

The biggest mistake last season that had a HUGE domino effect through this season was not re-signing Dwight Howard.

Check this out, when Dwight left:

    - The Lakers somehow felt JaVale wasn’t enough at the 5 that they traded our only remaining rim protector for a floor spacer in Marc Gasol.

    - When the season went on, even though Lakers had the best defense in the league, they were still giving up more layups compared to last year’s team, so they signed a rim protector mid-season in Damian Jones.

    - But when Andre Drummond became available, Lakers said “who needs a rim protector no one has heard about, when you can sign a *big name (asterisk on big) and former all-star from a lottery team!” So they dumped Jones for the more popular Drummond…

    - Everything goes to (bleep). Lakers finished off the season on a 10-11 losing note heading to the play-in/playoffs where the season ended with Drummond earning his first DNP and couldn’t get on the floor in an elimination game, where they actually needed bigs with AD out.

All that because Lakers didn’t re-sign Dwight Howard immediately.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 12:04 am    Post subject:

I don’t see mistakes from last season tbh.

The players just woefully under performed and as a result basically all of them were shipped out.

LeKlutch and Lakers FO basically said nah, can’t win a chip with these guys.

They needed another alpha to take the weight off Lebron’s shoulders, so they made the trade for Russ and didn’t think twice about keeping Drummond, Schroder and Harrell.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:27 am    Post subject:

Yes they definitely made mistakes, and I would start with trading Danny Green, and signing Trez. Those two were chemistry killer moves. Green is a great intangibles guy and our best 3nD wing. They also got smaller with Dennis. Trez another weak chemistry fit, but talented scorer ala Dennis Schroder, elite bench players.

However all that said, we do not win a ring unless AD is healthy and Bron is peaking in the playoffs. Neither of those things were the case. In round 1, was quite evident Bron was not 100%. AD was dominant in games 2 and 3, but when he had that injury in game 3 late, game 4 onward the series was over.

The schedule and quick turn around made it almost impossible for this team to realistically make another title run. Perhaps Rob was thinking that by getting 2 elite bench players, he is giving his team a boost in the regular season, as the team did get younger and better in that regard.

They may have learned that they prefer

At the 5, Bigs that can give them vertical spacing and elite rim protection
At the 1, Guards that are capabale to give you 10+ assists and good at throwing lobs (Not Dennis' forte).
More shooters (Which we added).

Just based on raw numbers which are not always accurate and translate from one team to another but we went with better shooters it seems but it may come at the price of man defense.

Melo shot 40.9% from 3 vs Kuz who shot 36.1
Monk shot 40.1% from 3 vs Caruso who shot 40.1% (But Monk makes and takes way more a game)
Bazemore shot 40.8% from 3 vs KCP who shot 41% (KCP faded in the playoffs).
Elllington shot 42.2% from 3 vs Matthews who shot 33.5%

I do not know if the team is a lot better, but it does seem the Lakers are far more cohesive on paper than they were a year ago. They have niche role players. Everyone sort of knows their role already, save for some of the young guys. My biggest worry is not the role players this year. It is Westbrook fitting in with AD and Bron. Not sure how that all plays out. If they fit in well, we are going to be one of the teams to win it. If there are issues with the 3 of them on the floor together, things get complicated.

Defense I expect a Vogel team to figure it out and make adjustments. On the bench, with Rondo, I expect Vogel's limitations on offense to help that 2nd unit be assisted with Rondo's IQ and ability to set the table. What I am most concerned about (aside from AD-Bron health in the playoffs) is how Westbrook fits. He is still an all-star player, but he has not historically played with an Anthony Davis type of big man, let alone a Lebron James.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 7:32 am    Post subject:

The season starting lineup of Lebron, AD, KCP, Gasol and Dennis had a net rating of +13 over 21 games before injuries hit. I say the Gasol and Dennis acquisitions were good.

It was injuries to our stars that killed us.

If you want to find "mistakes" in that context then I'd say it was:
Replacing Dwight with Trez.

Also, I know people hate the AD2 acquisition. But part of that deal was to prevent him from signing with the Clippers or Nets imo.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 7:38 am    Post subject:

None.

Healthy LBJ and AD could have won us the chip. Ahead on sun series even before AD went down with LBJ not fully healthy

Shortened off season didn’t give our main horses to recover

COVID prevented us to jell as a team - no practice time

Dwight impatience cause us to loose him and McGee.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 8:18 am    Post subject:

The bottom line is we couldn't recover from gimpy LBJ and injured AD. Simple as that. On a smaller scale, losing Dwight didn't help. Same for Rondo.

I think the Lakers and Rajon both learned the value of him. Vogel needs rajon in his ear. And Rondo needs to be on a team that values his IQ. look at him with the clips. Kawhi didn't want to hear anything from him. Neither did Lue. In fact Lue benched rondo for being rondo. Won't happen with the Lakers.

If he's not playing on the floor, he's coaching on the bench with Frank.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 8:31 am    Post subject:

Eh. Pelinka churns the roster every year. That's not necessarily a bad thing, because the only players who really matter are Lebron and Davis. Otherwise, he's working with a tight budget. With the addition of Westbrook, the budget is even tighter. So Rondo wanted to get paid, and he left. He got paid, then he came back. You can look at that as correcting a mistake, or you can look at it as operating with budget constraints and taking advantage of what's available. I see it as the latter.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 8:57 am    Post subject:

I don't think this kind of Monday morning quarterbacking is productive at all.

~ What's the main reason why the Lakers were the 7th seed? Injuries to our two best players. Everything else is a distant second.

~ What's the main reason why the Lakers were knocked out of the first round? Despite being up 2-1 against the eventual Western Conference champs, Lebron was gimpy and AD was knocked out of the playoffs. Everything else is a distant second.

So if you try to sit here with all the wisdom in the world AFTER the fact thinking that all we needed to do was bring X back and not sign Y and we would've won the championship, you're fooling yourself.

We could have had the 2001 Laker supporting cast last season, but without our two best players being healthy we would still go down in flames.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 9:58 am    Post subject:

Monday morning quarterbacking is all we Laker hungry fans can do until training camp starts later this month, and then the season. The tone will change then because our focus will shift.

Please bare with us. Thanks
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 10:02 am    Post subject:

Jordan-esque wrote:
The biggest mistake last season that had a HUGE domino effect through this season was not re-signing Dwight Howard.


100% accurate. 💯

People talk about injuries, however had the Lakers kept Dwight, the injuries sustained by AD last season may have been minimized.

Pelinka should’ve locked in Dwight, and he still could’ve made the exact same moves he did last season like trading for Schröder and also traded McGee for Gasol, that was the right move considering how McGee got manhandled a few months ago in the playoffs by Jokic.

When Dwight left, it forced Vogel to play AD at the 5 very early on, basically as early as the 1st game of the regular season.

Remember Vogel said a few months previously in the playoffs:

https://clutchpoints.com/lakers-news-real-reason-anthony-davis-is-not-playing-more-at-center-for-la/

Quote:
Frank Vogel admitted that the Lakers are trying to protect Davis from injury since the center spot takes a lot of beating during games. It also helps that Los Angeles has a future Hall of Famer starting at center in Dwight Howard.


This was the playoffs, but Vogel was still limiting how many mins AD played at the 5 during the playoffs.

Having Dwight really help limit AD from playing too many mins at the 5 last season. But with Dwight no more, AD practically had to start playing the 5 at the beginning of the regular season. What happens? He suffers a mild injury in the 1st game of the 2021 season, then reactivates it on game 2.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/30606649/los-angeles-lakers-anthony-davis-vs-minnesota-timberwolves-calf-contusion

Quote:
Vogel said Davis suffered the injury on opening night against the Clippers and then reaggravated it in the third quarter of the Lakers' Christmas Day win over the Dallas Mavericks.


That was the start of AD’s injury plagued season last year, all because he had to switch playing to the 5 very early on.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 10:08 am    Post subject:

Lonzo-Lite wrote:
Jordan-esque wrote:
The biggest mistake last season that had a HUGE domino effect through this season was not re-signing Dwight Howard.


100% accurate. 💯

People talk about injuries, however had the Lakers kept Dwight, the injuries sustained by AD last season may have been minimized.

Pelinka should’ve locked in Dwight, and he still could’ve made the exact same moves he did last season like trading for Schröder and also traded McGee for Gasol, that was the right move considering how McGee got manhandled a few months ago in the playoffs by Jokic.

When Dwight left, it forced Vogel to play AD at the 5 very early basically game 1 of the regular season.

Remember Vogel said a few months previously:

https://clutchpoints.com/lakers-news-real-reason-anthony-davis-is-not-playing-more-at-center-for-la/

Quote:
Frank Vogel admitted that the Lakers are trying to protect Davis from injury since the center spot takes a lot of beating during games. It also helps that Los Angeles has a future Hall of Famer starting at center in Dwight Howard.


Having Dwight limited AD from playing too many mins at the 5 last season.

With Dwight no more, AD had to start playing the 5 much sooner, as soon as the beginning of the season. What happens? He suffers a mild injury in the 1st game of the 2021 season, then reactivates it on game 2.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/30606649/los-angeles-lakers-anthony-davis-vs-minnesota-timberwolves-calf-contusion

Quote:
Vogel said Davis suffered the injury on opening night against the Clippers and then reaggravated it in the third quarter of the Lakers' Christmas Day win over the Dallas Mavericks.


That was the start of AD’s injury plagued season last year, all because he had to switch playing to the 5 very early on.


I won't try to go back to my posts when it was first announced Dwight wasn't returning last year, but it hit me very, very strongly. I knew it was huge, and yes a huge mistake....on the part of both parties.

Gald we reconciled.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 10:26 am    Post subject:

Mistakes? .

They had two superstars, 36 year old Lebron James and 27 year old Anthony Davis. They surrounded their two superstars with *in prime* talent at every position, 27 year old sixth man point guard Dennis Schroder, 27 year old former all-star center Andre Drummond, 27 year old sixth man Montrezl Harrell, etc. That was a quick rebuild. The two superstars could not get it done.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 10:34 am    Post subject:

I honestly think healthy LeBron + AD at least make the finals even with all of the changes. I think even hobbled LeBron plus healthy AD would have. The question is whether they beat the Bucks.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 10:34 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Yes they definitely made mistakes, and I would start with trading Danny Green, and signing Trez. Those two were chemistry killer moves. Green is a great intangibles guy and our best 3nD wing. They also got smaller with Dennis. Trez another weak chemistry fit, but talented scorer ala Dennis Schroder, elite bench players.

However all that said, we do not win a ring unless AD is healthy and Bron is peaking in the playoffs. Neither of those things were the case. In round 1, was quite evident Bron was not 100%. AD was dominant in games 2 and 3, but when he had that injury in game 3 late, game 4 onward the series was over.

The schedule and quick turn around made it almost impossible for this team to realistically make another title run. Perhaps Rob was thinking that by getting 2 elite bench players, he is giving his team a boost in the regular season, as the team did get younger and better in that regard.

They may have learned that they prefer

At the 5, Bigs that can give them vertical spacing and elite rim protection
At the 1, Guards that are capabale to give you 10+ assists and good at throwing lobs (Not Dennis' forte).
More shooters (Which we added).

Just based on raw numbers which are not always accurate and translate from one team to another but we went with better shooters it seems but it may come at the price of man defense.

Melo shot 40.9% from 3 vs Kuz who shot 36.1
Monk shot 40.1% from 3 vs Caruso who shot 40.1% (But Monk makes and takes way more a game)
Bazemore shot 40.8% from 3 vs KCP who shot 41% (KCP faded in the playoffs).
Elllington shot 42.2% from 3 vs Matthews who shot 33.5%

I do not know if the team is a lot better, but it does seem the Lakers are far more cohesive on paper than they were a year ago. They have niche role players. Everyone sort of knows their role already, save for some of the young guys. My biggest worry is not the role players this year. It is Westbrook fitting in with AD and Bron. Not sure how that all plays out. If they fit in well, we are going to be one of the teams to win it. If there are issues with the 3 of them on the floor together, things get complicated.

Defense I expect a Vogel team to figure it out and make adjustments. On the bench, with Rondo, I expect Vogel's limitations on offense to help that 2nd unit be assisted with Rondo's IQ and ability to set the table. What I am most concerned about (aside from AD-Bron health in the playoffs) is how Westbrook fits. He is still an all-star player, but he has not historically played with an Anthony Davis type of big man, let alone a Lebron James.


Is Danny Green really that important? He just seemed like a shooter who couldn’t shoot.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 10:38 am    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
I honestly think healthy LeBron + AD at least make the finals even with all of the changes. I think even hobbled LeBron plus healthy AD would have. The question is whether they beat the Bucks.


Yeah, hang a banner for that

2018-2019
*Would have made the playoffs if healthy*

2019-2020
*Bubble championship counts* ((healthy))

2020-2021
*Would have made the finals if healthy*

2021-2022
*Fourth straight championship if healthy*
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 10:44 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Yes they definitely made mistakes, and I would start with trading Danny Green, and signing Trez. Those two were chemistry killer moves. Green is a great intangibles guy and our best 3nD wing. They also got smaller with Dennis. Trez another weak chemistry fit, but talented scorer ala Dennis Schroder, elite bench players.


Agree. Even though I like both signings then they’re fit and chemistry was just bad. Trez I think got along with most but he was too emotional during the season and sounded like he was still not over his grandmas death. But Dennis, to hear stories that he didn’t get along Kuzma but more importantly AD was a big no no.

Lesson learned: Signing big names are great, but chemistry and other intangibles matters too.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 10:54 am    Post subject:

Lonzo-Lite wrote:
Jordan-esque wrote:
The biggest mistake last season that had a HUGE domino effect through this season was not re-signing Dwight Howard.


100% accurate. 💯

People talk about injuries, however had the Lakers kept Dwight, the injuries sustained by AD last season may have been minimized.

Pelinka should’ve locked in Dwight, and he still could’ve made the exact same moves he did last season like trading for Schröder and also traded McGee for Gasol, that was the right move considering how McGee got manhandled a few months ago in the playoffs by Jokic.

When Dwight left, it forced Vogel to play AD at the 5 very early on, basically as early as the 1st game of the regular season.

Remember Vogel said a few months previously in the playoffs:

https://clutchpoints.com/lakers-news-real-reason-anthony-davis-is-not-playing-more-at-center-for-la/

Quote:
Frank Vogel admitted that the Lakers are trying to protect Davis from injury since the center spot takes a lot of beating during games. It also helps that Los Angeles has a future Hall of Famer starting at center in Dwight Howard.


This was the playoffs, but Vogel was still limiting how many mins AD played at the 5 during the playoffs.

Having Dwight really help limit AD from playing too many mins at the 5 last season. But with Dwight no more, AD practically had to start playing the 5 at the beginning of the regular season. What happens? He suffers a mild injury in the 1st game of the 2021 season, then reactivates it on game 2.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/30606649/los-angeles-lakers-anthony-davis-vs-minnesota-timberwolves-calf-contusion

Quote:
Vogel said Davis suffered the injury on opening night against the Clippers and then reaggravated it in the third quarter of the Lakers' Christmas Day win over the Dallas Mavericks.


That was the start of AD’s injury plagued season last year, all because he had to switch playing to the 5 very early on.


Well written and completely agree. Everyone blames injury but not the how or why. Also why I don’t think AD starting at the 5 this season will ever happen. Save it for the playoffs not the regular season.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 11:01 am    Post subject:

People still trying to low key defend Trez and Schroder.

Dwight and DJ will also probably shoot 70% with LBJ, Russ, and Rondo passing to them yet they will also rebound at double the rate and block more shots.

Westbrook is a huge upgrade over Schroder. Then you add Monk and Rondo on top of that.

You have superior talent without any albatross salaries that will f*ck up the window after these old guys retire.

I'm so glad the front office didn't just follow conventional wisdom and play it safe.

Could this team implode? Sure... you never know what happens with super teams... especially old super teams

But I'm way more excited to watch this team than had we stood pat with Schroder and Trez.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 11:34 am    Post subject:

If they lose this year, do we blame management for not retaining 37 year old Marc Gasol? Not getting a TPE for Alex Caruso? Just curious how you guys spin the blame instead of putting it on the players and the coaches.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 11:44 am    Post subject:

Biggest mistake was thinking Marc Gasol was gonna contribute.

2nd Biggest mistake was NOT having a medical staff or plan that could prevent AD & Lebron's injuries or reduce their recovery time..


The ONLY thing that is going to prevent the Lakers from winning it all this upcoming season is INJURIES!
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 11:57 am    Post subject:

Biggest mistake #1- letting Dwight go.
Biggest mistake #2- signing a washed up Marc Gasol

Both mistakes have been fixed.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 12:15 pm    Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:
If they lose this year, do we blame management for not retaining 37 year old Marc Gasol? Not getting a TPE for Alex Caruso? Just curious how you guys spin the blame instead of putting it on the players and the coaches.

Well duh I mean the management blame game happens every season Lakers don’t win especially after the LeBron signing, look at the Beasley and Muscala thread or the Drummond and Trez thread last season. If DJ doesn’t perform then yes, management will be blamed for choosing him over Marc who was chosen over JaVale, and you have to bet you will see more blame especially when it comes to Lakers urban legend Caruso whom they didn’t retain so they could save money, yeah you’re going to see a lot of blame if the Lakers don’t win again.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 12:23 pm    Post subject:

All you hear are injuries that dismantled our run last year.

You think having AD hobbled during our bubble run...after a 4 month COVID hiatus, had anything to do with him missing half the season.

Quote:
Man, I’m hurting,” said Davis, who was listed on the injury report with a right heel contusion but told ESPN he was also dealing with an undisclosed ankle injury that required six hours of treatment on Sunday afternoon.

“My mindset is, ‘It’s the Finals. I got to do whatever I can to compete,’” he said. “There’s no way in hell I wasn’t playing in this game.”

https://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2020/10/13/21514570/lakers-anthony-davis-undisclosed-ankle-injury-played-through-nba-finals


https://youtu.be/6zTXO7h8PDw

https://youtu.be/M--IRVucDW8

You think heavier than usual minutes at the 5 had nothing to do with it?

You think Bron running point and being damn near the only playmaker on the team last year had anything to do with it? Nothing about Schro’s career suggested he would demand Bron to play more offball, yet we blitzed dude like he was the answer in shielding Bron extra PG duties during the regular season. Had it not been for Russ forcing his way here, we were on the 1 yard line to get Buddy and again that implicates Bron running more at the point to set Buddy up...not the other way around. We also “planned” for Nunn/Monk/Rondo to shake loose from their current teams, right?

We are blessed to be in this position and our FO saw an opportunity and took it. I’m happy they did, but let’s not act like their previous track record up till now has been proactive in preemptive health for our stars.

This team has the ability to stay afloat if key injuries befall us again...however could you imagine just how much more deep we would be with AC & Marc along with whatever came back via a Schro S&t?

If you’re all about the ring, put your money where your mouth is.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 12:34 pm    Post subject:

LakerDYnasty72 wrote:
Monday morning quarterbacking is all we Laker hungry fans can do until training camp starts later this month, and then the season. The tone will change then because our focus will shift.

Please bare with us. Thanks

But I wasn't criticizing Monday morning quarterbacking in general. I specifically called out "this kind of" Monday morning quarterbacking.

I mean, the only goal Laker fans are satisfied with each season is winning the championship, right? So that's why I pointed out that even if Rob made the decisons last year that the OP requested, it still wouldn't have resulted in a win in the Finals because of injuries to our best players.

If we can all agree that that's the case, then what in the world does it accomplish to complain about stuff that wouldn't have changed the ultimate outcome? It makes no sense.
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