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LakerSD
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 Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | | Westbrook is effective when he rushes the rim or shoots the 15' off the backboard shot. His 3 is not auto but it's been clutch of late. Don't forget his rebounds and assists. I see a lot of posters accentuating the negatives, ignoring the positives. Other than Bron no one is consistent. It's gonna be a rocky season. Buckle Up |
I still believe LBJ is LBJ.
Russ is Russ.
It all comes down to AD. Does he want to be a top 7 player again?
If he does, then the Lakers will be ok. If not, then it’s going to be a disaster of a season.
Being a top 7 player means you are available and bring elite and impactful production in most of the games. AD hasn’t been that since the 2019-20 season tbh. |
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nevitt_smrek
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Joined: 15 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerSD wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | Westbrook is effective when he rushes the rim or shoots the 15' off the backboard shot. His 3 is not auto but it's been clutch of late. Don't forget his rebounds and assists. I see a lot of posters accentuating the negatives, ignoring the positives. Other than Bron no one is consistent. It's gonna be a rocky season. Buckle Up |
I still believe LBJ is LBJ.
Russ is Russ.
It all comes down to AD. Does he want to be a top 7 player again?
If he does, then the Lakers will be ok. If not, then it’s going to be a disaster of a season.
Being a top 7 player means you are available and bring elite and impactful production in most of the games. AD hasn’t been that since the 2019-20 season tbh. |
AD needs to play like a candidate worthy of being discussed for top 7 all-time. Majority of title teams have had that ingredient. Lebron is no longer at that level today. Westbrook never has been. Sadly I think it's asking too much of AD to be at that elite level.
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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Rough 1st half, but that 2nd half was what we needed. Some things that stood out:
Cutting off the ball when the ball goes into the post (HUGE).
Some great action where he drove, spun and then kicked out to Ellington for some 3s.
Tonight we got those role players. Ellington, Monk, Reaves all played outstandig D. We need those perimeter role players. I don't know if those guys can keep it up, but Rob has to give this team's stars a chance with some more 2 guard help.
Really starting to enjoy Westbrook play. |
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DrDent
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Joined: 30 Jun 2016
Posts: 12975
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| Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | Rough 1st half, but that 2nd half was what we needed. Some things that stood out:
Cutting off the ball when the ball goes into the post (HUGE).
Some great action where he drove, spun and then kicked out to Ellington for some 3s.
Tonight we got those role players. Ellington, Monk, Reaves all played outstandig D. We need those perimeter role players. I don't know if those guys can keep it up, but Rob has to give this team's stars a chance with some more 2 guard help.
Really starting to enjoy Westbrook play. |
That third quarter by Russ was fantastic. High level plays on both ends. Got teammates involved; attacked the basket; got that great charge call vs the Kings (I think it was v Holmes). Huge reason for the team's success in that quarter. Dude can also still go down hill with the best of them.
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DrDent
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| Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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Russ in post gamer just now re half time discussion and coach's speech:
Was good for him because "I knew I was playing like $#!^"
LOL. I give the man kudos for being honest!
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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| This thread has really gotten silent since Westbrook started playing like a star. |
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governator
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| Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Can I say Westbrook been under control this whole month! |
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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| At this point if Westbrook keeps playing like this or actually gets even better like he always does he will be named a all star this season but probably will be the back up to Chris Paul. |
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DrDent
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| Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | This thread has really gotten silent since Westbrook started playing like a star. |
I hope he continues to feed me crow after crow, as I am more than happy to celebrate him leading the fellas to wins.
Was very, very impressed with that third quarter by him.
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KingKobe20
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| Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | At this point if Westbrook keeps playing like this or actually gets even better like he always does he will be named a all star this season but probably will be the back up to Chris Paul. |
Don’t forget about Steph, Dame, and Luka
The NBA always rewards the stars on the teams with the best records.
Then you got Booker, Anthony Edwards, CJ ext.
I want Russ to make the team as he deserves it but it’s slim pickings.
Last season he averaged a triple double and got the Wizards into the playoffs for the first time in forever and he still didn’t make the AS draft |
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LakersMD
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| Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Keep it up, Russ. |
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1995Lakers
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| Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Yea no way our team with the record it has is going to have 3 all stars. We should just expect Lebron and AD in the all star game |
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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| KingKobe20 wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | At this point if Westbrook keeps playing like this or actually gets even better like he always does he will be named a all star this season but probably will be the back up to Chris Paul. |
Don’t forget about Steph, Dame, and Luka
The NBA always rewards the stars on the teams with the best records.
Then you got Booker, Anthony Edwards, CJ ext.
I want Russ to make the team as he deserves it but it’s slim pickings.
Last season he averaged a triple double and got the Wizards into the playoffs for the first time in forever and he still didn’t make the AS draft |
Yeah there is obvious competition, but as far as those 3, only Curry has the right to have a argument, Westbrook has played better then Lillard and Doncic especially in recent weeks. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:24 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | | miggz23 wrote: | He's definitely trending up and looks more comfortable out there... Last 5 games he's been really solid.
Last 5 games: 26.2 ppg / 9 rpg / 9 apg / 3.8 TO / 50.9 FG% / 36.7 3% / +22 |
He's an all-star level player. There's no question about it. If we can somehow find a rotation around the big 3 (and it can be a short one of 8 players) that can play defense, we will be a very good team. I don't think we can get higher than 3rd in the West, but the main issue to me seems to be the lack of consistency we get from players around the big 3, not the big 3 itself. It's weird how a large portion of the board is against one of the big 3. You have your Lebron hate, AD hate, WB hate. When I see them play, I see 3 players that are all-stars. It's very obvious. The rest of our guys around them though, are very inconsistent and don't provide enough D/3 point shooting. If Rob wants some love from me, he needs to go out and get some more defensive players that can hit some 3 pointers. We need that like a fish needs water.
Like I mean when your role guys go 5-27. How can one blame AD/Bron/WB? They can't force the role guys to make those shots. It's on them. Same way, they can't force Melo to defend, or Monk to play with a higher IQ, or others. It's really a talent thing IMO. We lack those KCP/Danny Green/Caruso types around the big 3. If we get even 2 of those 3 players, 2 of those kind of players, we would be the front runner to win it all, IMO. For every good thing the big 3 can do, we negate it with our inability to sustain shots from outside or play defense around them. This is really an issue that can only be fixed by Rob Pelinka.
THT, Nunn, Monk. Those are 3 young guys that should have some trade value around the league. If those 3 can not be dependable like Danny Green/KCP/Caruso were in their roles, we need to move them for at least 1 player like that. We don't need young guys with talent. We need consistent defensive role players that know where to take shots in the offense. |
I suspect Westbrook will indeed be an All-Star level player this year. Since All Star level is a phrase that is used for players who aren't actually put on the all-star team. |
He's made the team many times, and has been a league MVP. There isn't a single thing he did welll in his MVP season or all-star selected season that he is still not doing well. What he doesn't do well, he has always not done well. It's not a sudden decline. We are getting exactly what we asked for or should have expected. He is not the problem with this team. Not even close. For the first 5-7 games he was an issue as he was figuring things out. Since then, he has been nothing short of our consistently best or 2nd best player. I don't know what games people watch, but if they think Russell Westbrook isn't a damn good player, they don't know basketball.
All that said, you can be a very good player and still not be the right fit or the right player for the team at that time. It remains to be seen if Westbrook is that guy. Jury is still out on this. But give me 2 3nD role players like Danny Green/KCP around AD/Bron/WB, and I place bets on the Lakers to be a WCF/NBA Finals team, at minimum. |
To me, it seems like Westbrook's reputation has been sliding the last few years.
Last year, Westbrook did poorly in the fans vote, in the players vote, and the media vote. And of course, the coaches voted not to put him on the team as well.
If the Lakers go on a great run, and he plays great, sure he can make the team. Right now, I think there are too many better guards in front of him. |
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activeverb
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:24 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | | miggz23 wrote: | He's definitely trending up and looks more comfortable out there... Last 5 games he's been really solid.
Last 5 games: 26.2 ppg / 9 rpg / 9 apg / 3.8 TO / 50.9 FG% / 36.7 3% / +22 |
He's an all-star level player. There's no question about it. If we can somehow find a rotation around the big 3 (and it can be a short one of 8 players) that can play defense, we will be a very good team. I don't think we can get higher than 3rd in the West, but the main issue to me seems to be the lack of consistency we get from players around the big 3, not the big 3 itself. It's weird how a large portion of the board is against one of the big 3. You have your Lebron hate, AD hate, WB hate. When I see them play, I see 3 players that are all-stars. It's very obvious. The rest of our guys around them though, are very inconsistent and don't provide enough D/3 point shooting. If Rob wants some love from me, he needs to go out and get some more defensive players that can hit some 3 pointers. We need that like a fish needs water.
Like I mean when your role guys go 5-27. How can one blame AD/Bron/WB? They can't force the role guys to make those shots. It's on them. Same way, they can't force Melo to defend, or Monk to play with a higher IQ, or others. It's really a talent thing IMO. We lack those KCP/Danny Green/Caruso types around the big 3. If we get even 2 of those 3 players, 2 of those kind of players, we would be the front runner to win it all, IMO. For every good thing the big 3 can do, we negate it with our inability to sustain shots from outside or play defense around them. This is really an issue that can only be fixed by Rob Pelinka.
THT, Nunn, Monk. Those are 3 young guys that should have some trade value around the league. If those 3 can not be dependable like Danny Green/KCP/Caruso were in their roles, we need to move them for at least 1 player like that. We don't need young guys with talent. We need consistent defensive role players that know where to take shots in the offense. |
I suspect Westbrook will indeed be an All-Star level player this year. Since All Star level is a phrase that is used for players who aren't actually put on the all-star team. |
He's made the team many times, and has been a league MVP. There isn't a single thing he did welll in his MVP season or all-star selected season that he is still not doing well. What he doesn't do well, he has always not done well. It's not a sudden decline. We are getting exactly what we asked for or should have expected. He is not the problem with this team. Not even close. For the first 5-7 games he was an issue as he was figuring things out. Since then, he has been nothing short of our consistently best or 2nd best player. I don't know what games people watch, but if they think Russell Westbrook isn't a damn good player, they don't know basketball.
All that said, you can be a very good player and still not be the right fit or the right player for the team at that time. It remains to be seen if Westbrook is that guy. Jury is still out on this. But give me 2 3nD role players like Danny Green/KCP around AD/Bron/WB, and I place bets on the Lakers to be a WCF/NBA Finals team, at minimum. |
To me, it seems like Westbrook's reputation has been sliding the last few years.
Last year, Westbrook did poorly in the fans vote, in the players vote, and the media vote. And of course, the coaches voted not to put him on the team as well.
If the Lakers go on a great run, and he plays great, sure he can make the team. Right now, I think there are too many better guards in front of him. |
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Outspoken
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:40 am Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | This thread has really gotten silent since Westbrook started playing like a star. |
It doesn't seem like it to me, but what do you mean? |
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ducasse
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 1:21 am Post subject: |
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| Outspoken wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | This thread has really gotten silent since Westbrook started playing like a star. |
It doesn't seem like it to me, but what do you mean? |
Pretty sure that refers to the criticism in the thread about Russ and also the criticism of the Lakers for trading for him. |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 4:43 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
To me, it seems like Westbrook's reputation has been sliding the last few years.
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I agree, but his level is the same as it was 3 years ago when he was making the AS team every year. He's one of the best at his position. No doubt about it. |
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governator
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:25 am Post subject: |
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| So, 12 games and counting sans LeBron… is Westbrook trade actually saving the season? Avoiding lottery when not having the pick? |
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Four Decade Bandwagon
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:29 am Post subject: |
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| DrDent wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | This thread has really gotten silent since Westbrook started playing like a star. |
I hope he continues to feed me crow after crow, as I am more than happy to celebrate him leading the fellas to wins.
Was very, very impressed with that third quarter by him. |
I love to see him being aggressive and putting pressure on opponents. But he is still way too inconsistent and out of control for my tastes.
Even during this “playing like a star “ stretch there are numerous reasons to criticize. Just what is the point of beating a dead horse? He is who he is, good and bad.
Still amazes me to see a “star” so out of control with TOs and throwing up wild shots every game. Look past the highlights and really watch him throughout games. Some of his low points are as frustrating as his high points are exciting.
Same can be said for this wildly inconsistent Laker team this season. |
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laker50
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:39 am Post subject: |
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The problem with Westbrook is he is a low basketball IQ player.
He can only play one way.
Chris Paul and Rondo is the opposite.
The best can hope is Westbrook learns to play within himself and
cut down turnovers and bad plays.
Practice shooting and learning from Rondo how to playmake. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:02 am Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | So, 12 games and counting sans LeBron… is Westbrook trade actually saving the season? Avoiding lottery when not having the pick? |
I hope that this is not the new standard for the season. I still have hopes that this roster is going to come together and make a run.
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:17 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | governator wrote: | | So, 12 games and counting sans LeBron… is Westbrook trade actually saving the season? Avoiding lottery when not having the pick? |
I hope that this is not the new standard for the season. I still have hopes that this roster is going to come together and make a run. |
No it should not be. The Westbrook trade will not (and should not be) judged on if he plays well in Bron's absence. Even last year's group was able to hold down the fort without Bron. I think this is actually more defense than offense. WB was playing well in some losses too, it's when our defense kicks in, we actually win games without Bron.
Anyway, point is. I think it's clear we lost depth and role players that did things we needed on both sides of the ball. But one thing we have in a playoff setting now that we never had before was the ability to break down an opposing defense when they play a packed defense on side of the floor. If they pack in the D on the side Bron is, then you have to find WB on drives the other side. If they pack WB on one side, then the opposite. You can also run a lot of WB/Bron screen/rolls. This is why it doesn't really add up why we took so long to play like these last 2 games (a very paint oriented game). Before these past 2 games, the majority of our offense was quick firing 3s, and Lebron was more than happy to take his part in it. We're finally seeing the team ensure the ball goes inside first. I don't buy that Westbrook forced the team to play that kind of ball. These last 2 games the teams have packed the paint on us again, but we've refused to budge and been determined in getting inside via post ups or dribble penetration. I actually respect Westbrook. Unlike AD who sometimes forgets he is a big that can score easily inside, Westbrook is relentless at trying to get in the paint. |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:24 am Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | Can I say Westbrook been under control this whole month! |
In November his O rating was 105.
In October? 93.
He's improved big time. The terrors are not there anymore. He is who he is, but he does fit and have a role. I feel way more comfortable with him having the ball and making plays than I ever did with Dennis Schroder. On offense, there was never anything Dennis did particularly well that justified a higher usage rate. Ballhandling/passing? Average for a starting PG. Attacking the rim? Above average. Finishing? Average. 3 point shooting? Average. There was nothing he did that stood out, and teams sagged off him too. With Westbrook they play him same, but the difference is his ballhandling/passing and getting to the rim is elite for his position and his finishing at he rim is quite good. They can send 3 guys on Westbrook, but he will still find a way to get into the paint and do kickouts or find the open man. With Dennis, we neither got that, nor did we get the type of 3 point shooting we needed around Bron/AD. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:32 am Post subject: |
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| laker50 wrote: | The problem with Westbrook is he is a low basketball IQ player.
He can only play one way.
Chris Paul and Rondo is the opposite.
The best can hope is Westbrook learns to play within himself and
cut down turnovers and bad plays.
Practice shooting and learning from Rondo how to playmake. |
Eh, I'm seeing signs that Westbrook is adapting. It's hard to say how far he will take it, or whether the end result will be good enough to make a run in the playoffs. We're still at the stage where the math for Lebron and Westbrook tends to be 1 + 1 < 2. This wouldn't be so bad if we hadn't dumped the whole supporting cast to add Westbrook and retain THT. If someone like Monk has a big night, it papers over the problem. But Monk is averaging .358 from three, and the team as a whole is actually shooting slightly worse from three than last year. We can only hope that the Westbrook project bears fruit before too long.
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