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vasashi17+
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 Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Laker_Jocker wrote: | | vasashi17+ wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | | Laker_Jocker wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | If we can somehow turn Harrell/Kuzma//22nd pick with other fillers into Barnes/Hield you do it, maybe that’s the hold up right now. |
Kyle Kuzma literally gives us the same numbers Harrison Barnes would in the same situation for far less money.
No to Harrison Barnes. |
What about Buddy Hield / Marvin Bagley / 39th pick for Kyle Kuzma / Montrezl Harrell / Alfonzo McKinnie / 22nd pick? |
I am probably in the minority but decent swap and worth the gamble on bags with a change of scenery for essentially 1 year trial. I don’t think the money you outlined works though……
Buddy and Bags =34m. Kuz 13, Trez 11/12 and Kinnie 2 ~ 27m
Would the #22 make up the for 2-3m more needed or perhaps add Gasol?
Gets way less appealing if giving up 5 assets for 2 in the deal….. |
Depends on the 5 and the 2.
Sacto fans have given up on a lazy, disinterested Bags https://www.sactownroyalty.com/2021/6/29/22556606/kings-will-monte-mcnair-trade-marvin-bagley-this-offseason
But even lazy & disinterested, Bags is a 15/8 guy who can finish inside and hit 3's.
I'd do Kuz for Bags straight up.
If I could get Bags & Hield for Kuz/Trezz/Gasol/McKinnie/#22, I would do it in a heartbeat. |
Bags/Buddy aggregate to 34.4m, so at the very least we need to send Sac 27.4m in salary. Kuz/Trez/Marc/McK (fully guaranteed) gets us to 27.3m...roughly 150k short...damn!
A couple ways around this, include the #22 pick, but signed and aggregated with the package above 1 month after the draft. Will Sac wait?
Another thing that can be done is have Trez opt out and work with Rich to re-up him at a guaranteed 11.2m (using non-bird rights) in year 1 of a 3yr S&t’d deal. Next summer, Sac can waive his nonguaranteed contract and either let him walk or have him re-up at 13.4m using the non-bird rights they just earned for this coming season. I think this scenario is more likelier of the 2.
But now how low is Bags trade value? Does our package really bring back Buddy/Bags? Like Dr. Laker said, you pull on that deal in a heartbeat as a Laker fan...so I guess we have our answer if Sac is likely to agree to such an offer. |
I do agree, even if it’s 5 assets to get it done, I think its worth the investment and would be in favor of it. Buddy and Bags both have been unhappy in Sac and the feeling was reported to be mutual at least at points during the season so I suppose it’s possible Sac would go for it. Both guys (at least on paper) should be an upgrade for stats produced by Kuz/Trez/Gasol and (at least age-wise) match AD in life after LBJ assuming they work out.
DS 27
Buddy 28
KCP 28
AD 28
Bags 22
Unless we are talking about Dame, going with a trade like this is way preferable to gutting or hard capping the roster for the likes of Lowry, WB or even CP3. |
I was with you till the very end. I actually prefer that ball handling 3rd star playmaker.
When folks say that Bron has always played as the primary playmaker, I guess that’s accurate, but dude has scored a lot of points throughout his career as well, so someone is also playing the assist man to him. You look at the perimeter playmakers he had when he was younger and an older Rondo/Schro are in a different stratosphere compared to Wade/Kyrie.
In order to prolong our Bron investment, I sincerely believe you gotta have a player on the roster that demands he plays more offball (at least during the regular season) and obviously guys like Cp3, Russ and Lowry do that...Buddy or Bags obviously do not. Ya feel me?
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Laker_Jocker
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Joined: 13 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:41 am Post subject: |
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| vasashi17+ wrote: |
*snip*
I was with you till the very end. I actually prefer that ball handling 3rd star playmaker.
When folks say that Bron has always played as the primary playmaker, I guess that’s accurate, but dude has scored a lot of points throughout his career as well, so someone is also playing the assist man to him. You look at the perimeter playmakers he had when he was younger and an older Rondo/Schro are in a different stratosphere compared to Wade/Kyrie.
In order to prolong our Bron investment, I sincerely believe you gotta have a player on the roster that demands he plays more offball (at least during the regular season) and obviously guys like Cp3, Russ and Lowry do that...Buddy or Bags obviously do not. Ya feel me? |
I do get your point but looking at your $$ calculations on what it would take to get them, each come at a severe roster cost, each have their own drawbacks as players and none are long term. Those are definitely things the Lakers should consider when spending on the roster both now with LBJ and after.
I also think the 3 star thing is always a questionable proposition as opposed to 2 stars and depth in terms of what wins in the playoffs. I'll concede that it worked with Durant's GSW and LeBron's MIA/CLE to championship but we just saw MIL win with 1 star, 1 really good 3 and D guy and 1 PG who mostly is known for defense as the 3 guys. Whereas BKLYN's 3 star thing ultimately did not for whatever reason. Then there is the fact that Lakers won with a 2 superstar roster last year.
So, if we are talking about just needing more of a "ball hog type" PG who can score alongside/instead of LBJ, there are way cheaper options. I always thought a guy like Goran Dragic would work well or maybe a Ricky Rubio/Lonzo type would fill that need going forward given the correct mix of other players. We also saw that DS does sort of fit this roll when they were able to play together but if you can put a pin in that need/argument for a minute - A smaller trade which adds 3 point specialist and better fitting PF/C to play along side AD does also help LBJ's longevity to some degree in that they can score better than what the Lakers would give up in this particular scenario (i.e. its easier on LBJ to win RS games because the depth is better).
Making a move like Buddy and Bags first and then evaluating options to upgrade DS don't have to be mutually exclusive. But, if the Lakers decide to go "all in" on a very expensive 3rd banana, they have nothing else to maneuver with. My argument is that I'd like whatever end result to have more depth and balance as complementary pieces to the 2 superstars they already have. Picking a few names for comparison between the philosophies:
PG -(DS Contract and likely THT)/Rose/Mills/TJ Mc Connell
SG - (KCP and probably Caruso)/Buddy/David Nwaba
SF - (LBJ)/Danny Green/Bazemore/McBuckets
PF - (AD)/Carmelo/Morris
C - Bagley/Dwight/Dieng/Dedmon/JaVale
versus giving up all flexible assets to obtain the 3rd star:
PG - 3rd guy, vet mins
SG - Exception type guy, vet mins
SF - LBJ, vet mins
PF - AD, vet mins
C - Vet mins
I am not saying this is the end all be all with a Buddy + Bags trade but philosophically I would prefer a smaller adjustment of that type to some sort of blockbuster that leaves the roster empty (again). |
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Kobe_Is_King13
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Joined: 16 Jul 2018
Posts: 555
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:53 am Post subject: |
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| vasashi17+ wrote: | | Laker_Jocker wrote: | | vasashi17+ wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | | Laker_Jocker wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | If we can somehow turn Harrell/Kuzma//22nd pick with other fillers into Barnes/Hield you do it, maybe that’s the hold up right now. |
Kyle Kuzma literally gives us the same numbers Harrison Barnes would in the same situation for far less money.
No to Harrison Barnes. |
What about Buddy Hield / Marvin Bagley / 39th pick for Kyle Kuzma / Montrezl Harrell / Alfonzo McKinnie / 22nd pick? |
I am probably in the minority but decent swap and worth the gamble on bags with a change of scenery for essentially 1 year trial. I don’t think the money you outlined works though……
Buddy and Bags =34m. Kuz 13, Trez 11/12 and Kinnie 2 ~ 27m
Would the #22 make up the for 2-3m more needed or perhaps add Gasol?
Gets way less appealing if giving up 5 assets for 2 in the deal….. |
Depends on the 5 and the 2.
Sacto fans have given up on a lazy, disinterested Bags https://www.sactownroyalty.com/2021/6/29/22556606/kings-will-monte-mcnair-trade-marvin-bagley-this-offseason
But even lazy & disinterested, Bags is a 15/8 guy who can finish inside and hit 3's.
I'd do Kuz for Bags straight up.
If I could get Bags & Hield for Kuz/Trezz/Gasol/McKinnie/#22, I would do it in a heartbeat. |
Bags/Buddy aggregate to 34.4m, so at the very least we need to send Sac 27.4m in salary. Kuz/Trez/Marc/McK (fully guaranteed) gets us to 27.3m...roughly 150k short...damn!
A couple ways around this, include the #22 pick, but signed and aggregated with the package above 1 month after the draft. Will Sac wait?
Another thing that can be done is have Trez opt out and work with Rich to re-up him at a guaranteed 11.2m (using non-bird rights) in year 1 of a 3yr S&t’d deal. Next summer, Sac can waive his nonguaranteed contract and either let him walk or have him re-up at 13.4m using the non-bird rights they just earned for this coming season. I think this scenario is more likelier of the 2.
But now how low is Bags trade value? Does our package really bring back Buddy/Bags? Like Dr. Laker said, you pull on that deal in a heartbeat as a Laker fan...so I guess we have our answer if Sac is likely to agree to such an offer. |
I do agree, even if it’s 5 assets to get it done, I think its worth the investment and would be in favor of it. Buddy and Bags both have been unhappy in Sac and the feeling was reported to be mutual at least at points during the season so I suppose it’s possible Sac would go for it. Both guys (at least on paper) should be an upgrade for stats produced by Kuz/Trez/Gasol and (at least age-wise) match AD in life after LBJ assuming they work out.
DS 27
Buddy 28
KCP 28
AD 28
Bags 22
Unless we are talking about Dame, going with a trade like this is way preferable to gutting or hard capping the roster for the likes of Lowry, WB or even CP3. |
I was with you till the very end. I actually prefer that ball handling 3rd star playmaker.
When folks say that Bron has always played as the primary playmaker, I guess that’s accurate, but dude has scored a lot of points throughout his career as well, so someone is also playing the assist man to him. You look at the perimeter playmakers he had when he was younger and an older Rondo/Schro are in a different stratosphere compared to Wade/Kyrie.
In order to prolong our Bron investment, I sincerely believe you gotta have a player on the roster that demands he plays more offball (at least during the regular season) and obviously guys like Cp3, Russ and Lowry do that...Buddy or Bags obviously do not. Ya feel me? |
Then maybe a move to acquire DeRozan and Buddy, while keeping Schroder makes sense. I know none of them are that dynamic ball handler/assist man on their own, but taken as a whole, they bring a balance of shooting, slashing and playmaking that would fill several of our current roster's holes.
Derozan is surprisingly adept at running the offense, especially as a PnR initiator. That combined with his ability to attack the rim/hit mid-range shots at a high level gives you a go-to scoring option when LeBron takes a breather. Him taking Kuzma's minutes give a major upgrade in playmaking and consistent scoring.
Buddy is the sniper that we need. His knockdown ability will keep teams honest and he actually has a bit more to his offensive game. He is also a better passer than advertised at the SG position and if he's taking some KCPs minutes then you again upgrade your playmaking while adding to your shooting prowess
Schroder didn't play poorly overall last year, but did shoot below expectations. He also didn't run the offense as well as we'd have hoped. However just about 6 assists isn't bad production, just need more guys that can make plays. We'd also like him to shoot a little better from 3.
So together you have
DeRozan for Kuz = upgrade to scoring and playmaking; big minus to shooting
Add Buddy as a starter, but try to retain KCP as a rotation piece = adds shooting and a little playmaking; minus defense
Dennis returns. With that you've upgraded playmaking, shooting and scoring ability. Brinig back Dwight for defense and I think that team has a chance to win it all. Maybe target a back up PG like Delon Wright |
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MJST
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:55 am Post subject: |
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No matter what point guard you get on the roster, they will be a secondary playmaker behind LeBron. That is likely going to always be the case unless LeBron took a backseat to playmaking.
There's a reason why Schroeder averaged 9 assists a game in LeBron's absence or just playing with AD. It's because LeBron takes a lot of playmaking opportunities as he is a point forward and the team's main guy.
I am not sure he'd be willing to take a backseat to the majority of the playmaking as it doesn't seem like how he's wired.
So it would likely need to be a compromise between him and a playmaking guard. Regardless of whom we got. That's probably why he gets on with scoring guards like Kyrie or Wade, there's no problem there with whom is secondary playmaker.
I think the only exception to that rule that LeBron would take a backseat to would be CP3. Even then I could see CP3 only averaging about 7 assists a game during that span.
That said, we need a coach to establish consistent roles for our team regardless of who we get.
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Dr. Laker
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Joined: 12 Apr 2002
Posts: 17105
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 1:09 am Post subject: |
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| vasashi17+ wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | | Laker_Jocker wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | If we can somehow turn Harrell/Kuzma//22nd pick with other fillers into Barnes/Hield you do it, maybe that’s the hold up right now. |
Kyle Kuzma literally gives us the same numbers Harrison Barnes would in the same situation for far less money.
No to Harrison Barnes. |
What about Buddy Hield / Marvin Bagley / 39th pick for Kyle Kuzma / Montrezl Harrell / Alfonzo McKinnie / 22nd pick? |
I am probably in the minority but decent swap and worth the gamble on bags with a change of scenery for essentially 1 year trial. I don’t think the money you outlined works though……
Buddy and Bags =34m. Kuz 13, Trez 11/12 and Kinnie 2 ~ 27m
Would the #22 make up the for 2-3m more needed or perhaps add Gasol?
Gets way less appealing if giving up 5 assets for 2 in the deal….. |
Depends on the 5 and the 2.
Sacto fans have given up on a lazy, disinterested Bags https://www.sactownroyalty.com/2021/6/29/22556606/kings-will-monte-mcnair-trade-marvin-bagley-this-offseason
But even lazy & disinterested, Bags is a 15/8 guy who can finish inside and hit 3's.
I'd do Kuz for Bags straight up.
If I could get Bags & Hield for Kuz/Trezz/Gasol/McKinnie/#22, I would do it in a heartbeat. |
Bags/Buddy aggregate to 34.4m, so at the very least we need to send Sac 27.4m in salary. Kuz/Trez/Marc/McK (fully guaranteed) gets us to 27.3m...roughly 150k short...damn!
A couple ways around this, include the #22 pick, but signed and aggregated with the package above 1 month after the draft. Will Sac wait?
Another thing that can be done is have Trez opt out and work with Rich to re-up him at a guaranteed 11.2m (using non-bird rights) in year 1 of a 3yr S&t’d deal. Next summer, Sac can waive his nonguaranteed contract and either let him walk or have him re-up at 13.4m using the non-bird rights they just earned for this coming season. I think this scenario is more likelier of the 2.
But now how low is Bags trade value? Does our package really bring back Buddy/Bags? Like Dr. Laker said, you pull on that deal in a heartbeat as a Laker fan...so I guess we have our answer if Sac is likely to agree to such an offer. |
Lakers can make the trade today using 2020-2021 salaries - 33.7 for Buddy/Bags and 27.3 for our guys. 2021-2022 contract year starts August 3rd.
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vasashi17+
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Joined: 13 Dec 2019
Posts: 5611
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 3:47 am Post subject: |
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@L_J: I totally understand that it’s a preference thing. I agree that rounding out the roster would be a headache, but let’s assume we did find a way to get Russ and he doesn’t work out for us, then we’ve seen him get flipped twice already in two seasons, so if we do it ourselves his 44.2m deal can bring back up to 55.5m in salary. That lump sum could pretty much bring back the depth you’re looking for. But likewise your Buddy’s/Bags deal can aggregate with another vet min deal to bring back Russ’s contract. So using that strategy, we can feel out how a deeper roster would operate while Russ continue to depreciate his value as the season goes on...it likely costs us less in assets to move for him during the season as opposed to now in the offseason. Anyways, I do see your POV and I don’t necessarily disagree, I just prefer the alternate route.
@K_I_K13: yeah see above. Again I don’t disagree with a Buddy/DeRozan/Schro outlook either. I think you got enough efficient shooting and playmakers in that bunch to make it easier for our duo. But again, I prefer Russ over that type depth. It could turn out to be a raging mess, but then again at least I got a 3rd star on my cap sheet that I can flip later. I’m just hoping, he doesn’t sink his value while he’s here haha.
@MJST: Schro held his own, while Bron was out, but I think he just doesn’t have the type of gravity where he can setup Bron for large chunks of the game. I never followed his career before he became a Laker, but upon hearing about the trade, I did initially think, he wasn’t the playmaker we needed, rather a LouWill bucket getter type coming off the bench. Anyways I totally agree with you in that I too feel it’s a coaching issue and the way the minutes were distributed this past season does worry me. I hope there is far better communication between the FO and our coaches so that if personnel comes in during the offseason, the coaches had input in the matter so that their PT is distributed accordingly. There has to be better communication for sure.
@Dr.Laker: good point about using previous season’s salary, and I did think about going that route as well, but if Sac is hellbent on Kuz bring the primary piece in the deal, he would be considered a poison pill contract if the deal was consummated before August 2nd. So I’m sure you know but he would count as 3.6m in outgoing for us, but count as the avg of the previous year added to each year in his extension (ie 10.7m). Then there’s Trez’s opt in to consider.
Also consider that Buddy’s deal deescalates annually, so his deal was 25m (with likely incentives included) last year compared to 23m this upcoming year. Let’s say we can sub Kcp in for Kuz instead and Trez does opt in before the July 31st deadline, then today Kcp/Trez/Marc/McK on last season’s salaries aggregate to 25.8m. So we still are 1.1m short since we need a minimum of 26.9m in outgoing salary to bring back Bags/Buds 33.7m.
But still nice idea and we could even apply it to the Indy deal for #13, but that one gets pretty insane when you deal with Kuz’s PP deal and just how much unnecessary additional salary needs to be included to get the numbers to work haha. I think it’s safe to assume the additional salary filler and was either TJ Warren or Jeremy Lamb when you use next season’s contract numbers instead.
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32
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Joined: 04 Nov 2009
Posts: 73062
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 5:26 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | The Buddy Hield-Kyle Kuzma-Lakers deal is still very possible, sources tell @sam_amick.
Montrezl Harrell would likely also head to Sacramento in that scenario if he opts in. |
https://twitter.com/TheAthletic/status/1420374422884605952?s=19
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vasashi17+
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Joined: 13 Dec 2019
Posts: 5611
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:30 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | [The Athletic] Alas, ESPN’s Marc Spears indicated that a Russell Westbrook sign-and-trade with Washington could be a possibility, and Charania indicated that a Buddy Hield deal might be in the works with Sacramento. Of all the scenarios for a supporting player believed to be in play, one source to the situation indicated the Hield deal — which would involve forward Kyle Kuzma and would also likely require Lakers forward Montrezl Harrell to opt in to the final year of his deal (worth $9.7 million) and be included — appears the most promising thus far.
For the Kings, Kuzma (three years, $39 million combined on his deal) and Harrell ($9.7 million next season if he opts in) could fit in well on the roster that is now being built around De’Aaron Fox and Tyrese Haliburton. A source with knowledge of the talks said Philadelphia also has shown interest (unrelated to Simmons), with other teams believed to be engaged on that front as well. A Hield deal of some sort, it seems, is likely on the horizon.
For the Lakers, adding an elite 3-point shooter like Hield on a long-term deal (three years, $63 million remaining) would be significant considering their struggles on that front last season. The Lakers ranked 25th in made 3s per game (11.1), were 24th in attempts (31.2) and 21st in 3-point percentage (35.4). Hield was third in the NBA in 3s per game (four) behind Steph Curry and Damian Lillard and third in attempts (10.2, also behind Curry and Lillard).
https://theathletic.com/2735093/2021/07/28/lakers-and-lebron-longing-for-more-ben-simmons-watch-the-beal-lillard-waiting-game-and-my-milwaukee-memories/
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32
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Posts: 73062
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:40 am Post subject: |
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^ Thanks vasashi17+
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Nobody in the NBA can touch the Laker brand, which, like the uniform color, is pure gold. |
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governator
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Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 25086
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:43 am Post subject: |
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| vasashi17+ wrote: | | Quote: | [The Athletic] Alas, ESPN’s Marc Spears indicated that a Russell Westbrook sign-and-trade with Washington could be a possibility, and Charania indicated that a Buddy Hield deal might be in the works with Sacramento. Of all the scenarios for a supporting player believed to be in play, one source to the situation indicated the Hield deal — which would involve forward Kyle Kuzma and would also likely require Lakers forward Montrezl Harrell to opt in to the final year of his deal (worth $9.7 million) and be included — appears the most promising thus far.
For the Kings, Kuzma (three years, $39 million combined on his deal) and Harrell ($9.7 million next season if he opts in) could fit in well on the roster that is now being built around De’Aaron Fox and Tyrese Haliburton. A source with knowledge of the talks said Philadelphia also has shown interest (unrelated to Simmons), with other teams believed to be engaged on that front as well. A Hield deal of some sort, it seems, is likely on the horizon.
For the Lakers, adding an elite 3-point shooter like Hield on a long-term deal (three years, $63 million remaining) would be significant considering their struggles on that front last season. The Lakers ranked 25th in made 3s per game (11.1), were 24th in attempts (31.2) and 21st in 3-point percentage (35.4). Hield was third in the NBA in 3s per game (four) behind Steph Curry and Damian Lillard and third in attempts (10.2, also behind Curry and Lillard).
https://theathletic.com/2735093/2021/07/28/lakers-and-lebron-longing-for-more-ben-simmons-watch-the-beal-lillard-waiting-game-and-my-milwaukee-memories/
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WB-Hield-Bron-AD… Jeannie telling them billionaires she got the balls to open the wallet |
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LakerSD
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Joined: 10 Nov 2016
Posts: 23778
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:54 am Post subject: |
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| ^^It is also nice to have the help of Dodgers balls…makes Ballz sweat a little bit across the hall. |
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hydrohead
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Joined: 14 Jul 2003
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Location: Space City
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:13 am Post subject: |
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| LakerSD wrote: | | ^^It is also nice to have the help of Dodgers balls…makes Ballz sweat a little bit across the hall. |
Dodger balls making Bald Ballz balls sweat? Did i get this right?
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LakerSD
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:28 am Post subject: |
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| hydrohead wrote: | | LakerSD wrote: | | ^^It is also nice to have the help of Dodgers balls…makes Ballz sweat a little bit across the hall. |
Dodger balls making Bald Ballz balls sweat? Did i get this right? |
👍 |
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oaktown_dimond
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Joined: 16 Nov 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:18 am Post subject: |
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| I could kinda see a kuzma/Harrell for buddy deal do down. Luke loves him some kuz... And why wouldn't Trez wanna go to sac? Luke loves small ball centers who don't play D 😜 |
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Big Shot Bob
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:50 am Post subject: |
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We'd better get something, ANYTHING, other than Buddy if we send them Kuzma and Montrezl.
I guarantee that Buddy will shoot his lowest 3P% of his career with us, Kuzma will average 18+ppg and Trezz will get 15/7 and be a 6MOY candidate again.
Ideally, Sacramento includes Bagley, Metu and Damian Jones in this trade as well... Bagley goes to a 3rd team with cap room, and they send back a few picks. Sacramento gets one of those picks, while the other/s go to the Lakers, along with Buddy, Metu and Jones. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:05 am Post subject: |
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| Big Shot Bob wrote: | We'd better get something, ANYTHING, other than Buddy if we send them Kuzma and Montrezl.
I guarantee that Buddy will shoot his lowest 3P% of his career with us, Kuzma will average 18+ppg and Trezz will get 15/7 and be a 6MOY candidate again.
Ideally, Sacramento includes Bagley, Metu and Damian Jones in this trade as well... Bagley goes to a 3rd team with cap room, and they send back a few picks. Sacramento gets one of those picks, while the other/s go to the Lakers, along with Buddy, Metu and Jones. |
Of course Kuz/Trezz would put up better numbers on a likely non playoff team, while Buddy may put up less numbers but be on a championship caliber team. We know how that works. |
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epic_
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Joined: 23 Jan 2020
Posts: 11310
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:21 am Post subject: |
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| Big Shot Bob wrote: | We'd better get something, ANYTHING, other than Buddy if we send them Kuzma and Montrezl.
I guarantee that Buddy will shoot his lowest 3P% of his career with us, Kuzma will average 18+ppg and Trezz will get 15/7 and be a 6MOY candidate again.
Ideally, Sacramento includes Bagley, Metu and Damian Jones in this trade as well... Bagley goes to a 3rd team with cap room, and they send back a few picks. Sacramento gets one of those picks, while the other/s go to the Lakers, along with Buddy, Metu and Jones. |
So something like
Lakers in: Nance, Buddy
Lakers out: Kuz, Alfonzo, Trez (S&T with raise to $11.2M)
Cavs in: Bagley
Cavs out: Nance
Kings in: Kuz, Trez, Alfonzo (waive)
King out: Buddy, Bagley
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vasashi17+
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Posts: 5611
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:30 am Post subject: |
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| epic_ wrote: | | Big Shot Bob wrote: | We'd better get something, ANYTHING, other than Buddy if we send them Kuzma and Montrezl.
I guarantee that Buddy will shoot his lowest 3P% of his career with us, Kuzma will average 18+ppg and Trezz will get 15/7 and be a 6MOY candidate again.
Ideally, Sacramento includes Bagley, Metu and Damian Jones in this trade as well... Bagley goes to a 3rd team with cap room, and they send back a few picks. Sacramento gets one of those picks, while the other/s go to the Lakers, along with Buddy, Metu and Jones. |
So something like
Lakers in: Nance, Buddy
Lakers out: Kuz, Alfonzo, Trez (S&T with raise to $11.2M)
Cavs in: Bagley
Cavs out: Nance
Kings in: Kuz, Trez, Alfonzo (waive)
King out: Buddy, Bagley |
Legal since Bags was rerouted by himself instead of aggregated with other Laker contracts.
Btw, I would love to bring Nance back. Now the second it turns August 3rd (ie Kuz’s PP no longer applies) submit that offer to league offices.
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epic_
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Joined: 23 Jan 2020
Posts: 11310
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:36 am Post subject: |
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| vasashi17+ wrote: | | epic_ wrote: | | Big Shot Bob wrote: | We'd better get something, ANYTHING, other than Buddy if we send them Kuzma and Montrezl.
I guarantee that Buddy will shoot his lowest 3P% of his career with us, Kuzma will average 18+ppg and Trezz will get 15/7 and be a 6MOY candidate again.
Ideally, Sacramento includes Bagley, Metu and Damian Jones in this trade as well... Bagley goes to a 3rd team with cap room, and they send back a few picks. Sacramento gets one of those picks, while the other/s go to the Lakers, along with Buddy, Metu and Jones. |
So something like
Lakers in: Nance, Buddy
Lakers out: Kuz, Alfonzo, Trez (S&T with raise to $11.2M)
Cavs in: Bagley
Cavs out: Nance
Kings in: Kuz, Trez, Alfonzo (waive)
King out: Buddy, Bagley |
Legal since Bags was rerouted by himself instead of aggregated with other Laker contracts.
Btw, I would love to bring Nance back. Now the second it turns August 3rd (ie Kuz’s PP no longer applies) submit that offer to league offices. |
I've learned a trick or 2 from you! 🙏
Make it happen 
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Laker's Fan
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Joined: 27 Jun 2002
Posts: 12850
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:37 am Post subject: |
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| epic_ wrote: | | Big Shot Bob wrote: | We'd better get something, ANYTHING, other than Buddy if we send them Kuzma and Montrezl.
I guarantee that Buddy will shoot his lowest 3P% of his career with us, Kuzma will average 18+ppg and Trezz will get 15/7 and be a 6MOY candidate again.
Ideally, Sacramento includes Bagley, Metu and Damian Jones in this trade as well... Bagley goes to a 3rd team with cap room, and they send back a few picks. Sacramento gets one of those picks, while the other/s go to the Lakers, along with Buddy, Metu and Jones. |
So something like
Lakers in: Nance, Buddy
Lakers out: Kuz, Alfonzo, Trez (S&T with raise to $11.2M)
Cavs in: Bagley
Cavs out: Nance
Kings in: Kuz, Trez, Alfonzo (waive)
King out: Buddy, Bagley |
S&T requires a three year deal. I have doubts Trez wants to lock himself in that long at an $11m baseline. IMO, save finding a cap room team willing to give him a strong multi year deal, opting in and having early-bird rights going into next summer is his best move.
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epic_
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Posts: 11310
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:45 am Post subject: |
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| Laker's Fan wrote: | | epic_ wrote: | | Big Shot Bob wrote: | We'd better get something, ANYTHING, other than Buddy if we send them Kuzma and Montrezl.
I guarantee that Buddy will shoot his lowest 3P% of his career with us, Kuzma will average 18+ppg and Trezz will get 15/7 and be a 6MOY candidate again.
Ideally, Sacramento includes Bagley, Metu and Damian Jones in this trade as well... Bagley goes to a 3rd team with cap room, and they send back a few picks. Sacramento gets one of those picks, while the other/s go to the Lakers, along with Buddy, Metu and Jones. |
So something like
Lakers in: Nance, Buddy
Lakers out: Kuz, Alfonzo, Trez (S&T with raise to $11.2M)
Cavs in: Bagley
Cavs out: Nance
Kings in: Kuz, Trez, Alfonzo (waive)
King out: Buddy, Bagley |
S&T requires a three year deal. I have doubts Trez wants to lock himself in that long at an $11m baseline. IMO, save finding a cap room team willing to give him a strong multi year deal, opting in and having early-bird rights going into next summer is his best move. |
Valid point.
In that scenario, I might include Gasol just to get Larry back.
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vasashi17+
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Posts: 5611
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:45 am Post subject: |
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@L’sF: only the 1st year of the S&t deal has to be fully guaranteed. Essentially you’re trading Trez as an expiring 11.2m player where the recipient waived his nonguaranteed year2/3 and then used his non-bird to offer him a new deal starting at 13.4m.
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wolfpaclaker
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Posts: 58336
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:52 am Post subject: |
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Kuz and Trez being out are not a shocker. Lakers barely used Trez and Vogel needs elite rim protection at the basket to use his D to its best. We have AD at the 5 and AD should be working towards a program to get his body to be able to play half his minutes at the 5, ala Pau Gasol 2008-2011. All we need at the 5 is a big guy that can take the match ups that are very physical for AD, and come in and play those situations. That again, is not Trez.
So anything we can get out of Trez is a major upgrade, because he has no role on this team. Because he was a Klutch guy, he may do us a favor and allow us to help him get to his next team. |
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MJST
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Posts: 26309
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | Kuz and Trez being out are not a shocker. Lakers barely used Trez and Vogel needs elite rim protection at the basket to use his D to its best. We have AD at the 5 and AD should be working towards a program to get his body to be able to play half his minutes at the 5, ala Pau Gasol 2008-2011. All we need at the 5 is a big guy that can take the match ups that are very physical for AD, and come in and play those situations. That again, is not Trez.
So anything we can get out of Trez is a major upgrade, because he has no role on this team. Because he was a Klutch guy, he may do us a favor and allow us to help him get to his next team. |
Our D was already the best in the league. What Vogel SHOULD be focusing on is our offense and getting an offensive coordinator. We were the best defensive team in the league and by a large margin, particularly when AD was healthy.
If people or even Vogel are still on "But Harrell isn't elite rim protection!" they are focusing on the wrong thing.
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Big Shot Bob
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Posts: 648
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Big Shot Bob wrote: | We'd better get something, ANYTHING, other than Buddy if we send them Kuzma and Montrezl.
I guarantee that Buddy will shoot his lowest 3P% of his career with us, Kuzma will average 18+ppg and Trezz will get 15/7 and be a 6MOY candidate again.
Ideally, Sacramento includes Bagley, Metu and Damian Jones in this trade as well... Bagley goes to a 3rd team with cap room, and they send back a few picks. Sacramento gets one of those picks, while the other/s go to the Lakers, along with Buddy, Metu and Jones. |
Of course Kuz/Trezz would put up better numbers on a likely non playoff team, while Buddy may put up less numbers but be on a championship caliber team. We know how that works. |
I think you're agreeing with me then? If Kuz and Trezz are going to put up those kind of numbers then their value will go back to what it was 1-2 years ago... which means that trading both of them for Buddy isn't fair value. My point is that we'd need more. |
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