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epic_
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 Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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| DLaker wrote: | I might be a minority, but I don't feel Hield is worth trading Kuz/Trez/#22 for.
I rather have Barnes, he is more versatile, better defender and can create his own shot. |
I'm with you on Hield.
But I'd rather have Kuz, Trez and #22 than Barnes too 
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Mark10 45
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| Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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| DLaker wrote: | I might be a minority, but I don't feel Hield is worth trading Kuz/Trez/#22 for.
I rather have Barnes, he is more versatile, better defender and can create his own shot. |
think that's actually the majority. once the pick is added it's too much |
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ShowtimeDynasty_24/7
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| Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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Hang up on this deal is either Harrell deciding to opt-in and essentially agree to being traded to Sacramento or our reluctance to add in #22 when we are giving up Kuzma and KCP (who somehow is actually younger than Hield).
What I think happens is that we trade down during the draft in hopes and getting an extra 2nd rounder (Brooklyn, OKC, New Orleans, Philadelphia are all potential partners) and then using that 2nd round pick to sweeten the deal for Sacramento. I think odds are that Hield gets traded this offseason and we appear to be the most interested and aggressive in obtaining him. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: |
No doubt he would feast on 3s here. But what would it take to trade for him, and does having basically 2 SGs who do not playmake put too much of a creation burden on LBJ as he heads into age 36-37 NBA season. |
If that’s the only significant move we make, you’ve got a good point.
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| epic_ wrote: |
So he's not gonna get 10 3pt attempts a game for us.
Maybe 6? Wonder how it'll affect his %. |
When he took fewer several years ago, his percentage was even higher.
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epic_
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| Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | epic_ wrote: |
So he's not gonna get 10 3pt attempts a game for us.
Maybe 6? Wonder how it'll affect his %. |
When he took fewer several years ago, his percentage was even higher. |
Ah no wonder.
This year he took more tight and open 3s than he did 2 years ago.
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DLaker
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| Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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double post
Last edited by DLaker on Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:20 pm; edited 5 times in total |
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MJST
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| Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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Hield for Kuzma?
Fair trade
Hield for Kuzma + Harrell?
No, not unless they throw in Bagley
Hield for Kuzma + Harrell + 22nd?
Heck no.
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DLaker
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| Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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| DLaker wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | epic_ wrote: |
So he's not gonna get 10 3pt attempts a game for us.
Maybe 6? Wonder how it'll affect his %. |
When he took fewer several years ago, his percentage was even higher. |
They crucified Kuz which is making 3.5 mil last season, wonder how much they will crucify Hield for making 24 mil and not average the 16pts he did last season because he will have less shots in here in LA. (Too one dimensional player, he will get eaten up alive here in LG). I say if you trade that much you need to get a player that can do more than shoot. I rather have Barnes from sacramento if we need a trade that bad. |
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LakerSD
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| Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | Hield for Kuzma?
Fair trade
Hield for Kuzma + Harrell?
No, not unless they throw in Bagley
Hield for Kuzma + Harrell + 22nd?
Heck no. |
I agree with this. Kuzma and Harrell is honestly enough.
If the Lakers send 22nd pick, they are stupid/beyond desperate. |
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| If we can somehow turn Harrell/Kuzma//22nd pick with other fillers into Barnes/Hield you do it, maybe that’s the hold up right now. |
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3baller
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| Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: |
No doubt he would feast on 3s here. But what would it take to trade for him, and does having basically 2 SGs who do not playmake put too much of a creation burden on LBJ as he heads into age 36-37 NBA season. |
Been saying, that trade needs to be expanded to include Delon Wright while we add KCP on our end to that trade assuming Trez opts in especially if we miss out on trading for any of the high profile PG's we're rumored to be targeting.
Delon Wright:
DBPM: +1.3
BPM: +2.0
Deflections: 3.0 (AD 2.5, Russ 2.6)
Drives - 11.3 (Russ 17.8, Dennis 13.3, Lebron 9.5)
Stl% - 3.0 (Top 3 in the league last season) (Dennis 1.7)
Ast% - 25.7(as a starter last season for detroit) (Dennis 26.9)
KCP:
DBPM: +0.6
BPM: -0.9
Deflections: 1.2
Drives - 2.3
Stl% - 1.6
Ast% - 9.2
Wright's every bit as good a defender, if not better, than KCP. He's a lot more disruptive with his deflections and steals for sure. Not a stellar playmaker but decent enough for a secondary ball handler. He averaged 5.0 APG when he started for detroit. Shot 37.2% from 3 last season - worse than KCP but better than Dennis.
Arguably the only thing KCP is better at than Wright is his 3pt shooting in the last 2 seasons but for their careers, they're even at 35%.
As a playmaker, he's about even with Dennis so we won't be losing anything in that regard. He's not a natural scorer compared to Dennis but he's taller and a much better defender. We're gonna need every uptick in defense that we can get if we're gonna bring in Hield.
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MJST
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| Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | If we can somehow turn Harrell/Kuzma//22nd pick with other fillers into Barnes/Hield you do it, maybe that’s the hold up right now. |
Kyle Kuzma literally gives us the same numbers Harrison Barnes would in the same situation for far less money.
No to Harrison Barnes.
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LGFan
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| Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | If we can somehow turn Harrell/Kuzma//22nd pick with other fillers into Barnes/Hield you do it, maybe that’s the hold up right now. |
Kyle Kuzma literally gives us the same numbers Harrison Barnes would in the same situation for far less money.
No to Harrison Barnes. |
Ya no thanks to Barnes |
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LakersRGolden
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| Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Wouldn't mind getting Damion back if a trade goes down. |
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slavavov
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| Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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We know Hield is a great catch and shoot player, but how good is he at creating his own shot off the dribble? How good is he at attacking the basket and finishing?
If we're getting a player like him, he needs to be enough of a 1-on-1 player to take enough of that load off LeBron. |
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | If we can somehow turn Harrell/Kuzma//22nd pick with other fillers into Barnes/Hield you do it, maybe that’s the hold up right now. |
Kyle Kuzma literally gives us the same numbers Harrison Barnes would in the same situation for far less money.
No to Harrison Barnes. |
What about Buddy Hield / Marvin Bagley / 39th pick for Kyle Kuzma / Montrezl Harrell / Alfonzo McKinnie / 22nd pick? |
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a2j1m
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| Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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| ShowtimeDynasty_24/7 wrote: | Hang up on this deal is either Harrell deciding to opt-in and essentially agree to being traded to Sacramento or our reluctance to add in #22 when we are giving up Kuzma and KCP (who somehow is actually younger than Hield).
What I think happens is that we trade down during the draft in hopes and getting an extra 2nd rounder (Brooklyn, OKC, New Orleans, Philadelphia are all potential partners) and then using that 2nd round pick to sweeten the deal for Sacramento. I think odds are that Hield gets traded this offseason and we appear to be the most interested and aggressive in obtaining him. |
And so I expect to get that 2nd rd pick? Trading down as in trading the 22 for 2nds? How is that sweetening the deal? Wouldn’t they just rather have the 22nd pick? |
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MJST
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| Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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| 3baller wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: |
No doubt he would feast on 3s here. But what would it take to trade for him, and does having basically 2 SGs who do not playmake put too much of a creation burden on LBJ as he heads into age 36-37 NBA season. |
Been saying, that trade needs to be expanded to include Delon Wright while we add KCP on our end to that trade assuming Trez opts in especially if we miss out on trading for any of the high profile PG's we're rumored to be targeting.
Delon Wright:
DBPM: +1.3
BPM: +2.0
Deflections: 3.0 (AD 2.5, Russ 2.6)
Drives - 11.3 (Russ 17.8, Dennis 13.3, Lebron 9.5)
Stl% - 3.0 (Top 3 in the league last season) (Dennis 1.7)
Ast% - 25.7(as a starter last season for detroit) (Dennis 26.9)
KCP:
DBPM: +0.6
BPM: -0.9
Deflections: 1.2
Drives - 2.3
Stl% - 1.6
Ast% - 9.2
Wright's every bit as good a defender, if not better, than KCP. He's a lot more disruptive with his deflections and steals for sure. Not a stellar playmaker but decent enough for a secondary ball handler. He averaged 5.0 APG when he started for detroit. Shot 37.2% from 3 last season - worse than KCP but better than Dennis.
Arguably the only thing KCP is better at than Wright is his 3pt shooting in the last 2 seasons but for their careers, they're even at 35%.
As a playmaker, he's about even with Dennis so we won't be losing anything in that regard. He's not a natural scorer compared to Dennis but he's taller and a much better defender. We're gonna need every uptick in defense that we can get if we're gonna bring in Hield. |
Kuzma, KCP, Caruso, #22
for
Hield, Bagley, Wright
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Halflife
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Joined: 15 Aug 2015
Posts: 16774
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| Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | 3baller wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: |
No doubt he would feast on 3s here. But what would it take to trade for him, and does having basically 2 SGs who do not playmake put too much of a creation burden on LBJ as he heads into age 36-37 NBA season. |
Been saying, that trade needs to be expanded to include Delon Wright while we add KCP on our end to that trade assuming Trez opts in especially if we miss out on trading for any of the high profile PG's we're rumored to be targeting.
Delon Wright:
DBPM: +1.3
BPM: +2.0
Deflections: 3.0 (AD 2.5, Russ 2.6)
Drives - 11.3 (Russ 17.8, Dennis 13.3, Lebron 9.5)
Stl% - 3.0 (Top 3 in the league last season) (Dennis 1.7)
Ast% - 25.7(as a starter last season for detroit) (Dennis 26.9)
KCP:
DBPM: +0.6
BPM: -0.9
Deflections: 1.2
Drives - 2.3
Stl% - 1.6
Ast% - 9.2
Wright's every bit as good a defender, if not better, than KCP. He's a lot more disruptive with his deflections and steals for sure. Not a stellar playmaker but decent enough for a secondary ball handler. He averaged 5.0 APG when he started for detroit. Shot 37.2% from 3 last season - worse than KCP but better than Dennis.
Arguably the only thing KCP is better at than Wright is his 3pt shooting in the last 2 seasons but for their careers, they're even at 35%.
As a playmaker, he's about even with Dennis so we won't be losing anything in that regard. He's not a natural scorer compared to Dennis but he's taller and a much better defender. We're gonna need every uptick in defense that we can get if we're gonna bring in Hield. |
Kuzma, KCP, Caruso, #22
for
Hield, Bagley, Wright |
caruso is the best player out of all of those. IMO he should not be moved unless its for a substantial upgrade. that trade IMO is just shuffling deck chairs. |
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Laker_Jocker
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Joined: 13 Jul 2004
Posts: 2815
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| Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | If we can somehow turn Harrell/Kuzma//22nd pick with other fillers into Barnes/Hield you do it, maybe that’s the hold up right now. |
Kyle Kuzma literally gives us the same numbers Harrison Barnes would in the same situation for far less money.
No to Harrison Barnes. |
What about Buddy Hield / Marvin Bagley / 39th pick for Kyle Kuzma / Montrezl Harrell / Alfonzo McKinnie / 22nd pick? |
I am probably in the minority but decent swap and worth the gamble on bags with a change of scenery for essentially 1 year trial. I don’t think the money you outlined works though……
Buddy and Bags =34m. Kuz 13, Trez 11/12 and Kinnie 2 ~ 27m
Would the #22 make up the for 2-3m more needed or perhaps add Gasol?
Gets way less appealing if giving up 5 assets for 2 in the deal….. |
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Inspector Gadget
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Joined: 18 Apr 2016
Posts: 46696
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| Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Laker_Jocker wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | If we can somehow turn Harrell/Kuzma//22nd pick with other fillers into Barnes/Hield you do it, maybe that’s the hold up right now. |
Kyle Kuzma literally gives us the same numbers Harrison Barnes would in the same situation for far less money.
No to Harrison Barnes. |
What about Buddy Hield / Marvin Bagley / 39th pick for Kyle Kuzma / Montrezl Harrell / Alfonzo McKinnie / 22nd pick? |
I am probably in the minority but decent swap and worth the gamble on bags with a change of scenery for essentially 1 year trial. I don’t think the money you outlined works though……
Buddy and Bags =34m. Kuz 13, Trez 11/12 and Kinnie 2 ~ 27m
Would the #22 make up the for 2-3m more needed or perhaps add Gasol?
Gets way less appealing if giving up 5 assets for 2 in the deal….. |
Does it work if you take out McKinnie and add Gasol? |
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Dr. Laker
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Joined: 12 Apr 2002
Posts: 17109
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| Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Laker_Jocker wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | If we can somehow turn Harrell/Kuzma//22nd pick with other fillers into Barnes/Hield you do it, maybe that’s the hold up right now. |
Kyle Kuzma literally gives us the same numbers Harrison Barnes would in the same situation for far less money.
No to Harrison Barnes. |
What about Buddy Hield / Marvin Bagley / 39th pick for Kyle Kuzma / Montrezl Harrell / Alfonzo McKinnie / 22nd pick? |
I am probably in the minority but decent swap and worth the gamble on bags with a change of scenery for essentially 1 year trial. I don’t think the money you outlined works though……
Buddy and Bags =34m. Kuz 13, Trez 11/12 and Kinnie 2 ~ 27m
Would the #22 make up the for 2-3m more needed or perhaps add Gasol?
Gets way less appealing if giving up 5 assets for 2 in the deal….. |
Depends on the 5 and the 2.
Sacto fans have given up on a lazy, disinterested Bags https://www.sactownroyalty.com/2021/6/29/22556606/kings-will-monte-mcnair-trade-marvin-bagley-this-offseason
But even lazy & disinterested, Bags is a 15/8 guy who can finish inside and hit 3's.
I'd do Kuz for Bags straight up.
If I could get Bags & Hield for Kuz/Trezz/Gasol/McKinnie/#22, I would do it in a heartbeat.
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vasashi17+
Star Player
Joined: 13 Dec 2019
Posts: 5615
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| Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Dr. Laker wrote: | | Laker_Jocker wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | If we can somehow turn Harrell/Kuzma//22nd pick with other fillers into Barnes/Hield you do it, maybe that’s the hold up right now. |
Kyle Kuzma literally gives us the same numbers Harrison Barnes would in the same situation for far less money.
No to Harrison Barnes. |
What about Buddy Hield / Marvin Bagley / 39th pick for Kyle Kuzma / Montrezl Harrell / Alfonzo McKinnie / 22nd pick? |
I am probably in the minority but decent swap and worth the gamble on bags with a change of scenery for essentially 1 year trial. I don’t think the money you outlined works though……
Buddy and Bags =34m. Kuz 13, Trez 11/12 and Kinnie 2 ~ 27m
Would the #22 make up the for 2-3m more needed or perhaps add Gasol?
Gets way less appealing if giving up 5 assets for 2 in the deal….. |
Depends on the 5 and the 2.
Sacto fans have given up on a lazy, disinterested Bags https://www.sactownroyalty.com/2021/6/29/22556606/kings-will-monte-mcnair-trade-marvin-bagley-this-offseason
But even lazy & disinterested, Bags is a 15/8 guy who can finish inside and hit 3's.
I'd do Kuz for Bags straight up.
If I could get Bags & Hield for Kuz/Trezz/Gasol/McKinnie/#22, I would do it in a heartbeat. |
Bags/Buddy aggregate to 34.4m, so at the very least we need to send Sac 27.4m in salary. Kuz/Trez/Marc/McK (fully guaranteed) gets us to 27.3m...roughly 150k short...damn!
A couple ways around this, include the #22 pick, but signed and aggregated with the package above 1 month after the draft. Will Sac wait?
Another thing that can be done is have Trez opt out and work with Rich to re-up him at a guaranteed 11.2m (using non-bird rights) in year 1 of a 3yr S&t’d deal. Next summer, Sac can waive his nonguaranteed contract and either let him walk or have him re-up at 13.4m using the non-bird rights they just earned for this coming season. I think this scenario is more likelier of the 2.
But now how low is Bags trade value? Does our package really bring back Buddy/Bags? Like Dr. Laker said, you pull on that deal in a heartbeat as a Laker fan...so I guess we have our answer if Sac is likely to agree to such an offer.
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Laker_Jocker
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Joined: 13 Jul 2004
Posts: 2815
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| Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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| vasashi17+ wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | | Laker_Jocker wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | If we can somehow turn Harrell/Kuzma//22nd pick with other fillers into Barnes/Hield you do it, maybe that’s the hold up right now. |
Kyle Kuzma literally gives us the same numbers Harrison Barnes would in the same situation for far less money.
No to Harrison Barnes. |
What about Buddy Hield / Marvin Bagley / 39th pick for Kyle Kuzma / Montrezl Harrell / Alfonzo McKinnie / 22nd pick? |
I am probably in the minority but decent swap and worth the gamble on bags with a change of scenery for essentially 1 year trial. I don’t think the money you outlined works though……
Buddy and Bags =34m. Kuz 13, Trez 11/12 and Kinnie 2 ~ 27m
Would the #22 make up the for 2-3m more needed or perhaps add Gasol?
Gets way less appealing if giving up 5 assets for 2 in the deal….. |
Depends on the 5 and the 2.
Sacto fans have given up on a lazy, disinterested Bags https://www.sactownroyalty.com/2021/6/29/22556606/kings-will-monte-mcnair-trade-marvin-bagley-this-offseason
But even lazy & disinterested, Bags is a 15/8 guy who can finish inside and hit 3's.
I'd do Kuz for Bags straight up.
If I could get Bags & Hield for Kuz/Trezz/Gasol/McKinnie/#22, I would do it in a heartbeat. |
Bags/Buddy aggregate to 34.4m, so at the very least we need to send Sac 27.4m in salary. Kuz/Trez/Marc/McK (fully guaranteed) gets us to 27.3m...roughly 150k short...damn!
A couple ways around this, include the #22 pick, but signed and aggregated with the package above 1 month after the draft. Will Sac wait?
Another thing that can be done is have Trez opt out and work with Rich to re-up him at a guaranteed 11.2m (using non-bird rights) in year 1 of a 3yr S&t’d deal. Next summer, Sac can waive his nonguaranteed contract and either let him walk or have him re-up at 13.4m using the non-bird rights they just earned for this coming season. I think this scenario is more likelier of the 2.
But now how low is Bags trade value? Does our package really bring back Buddy/Bags? Like Dr. Laker said, you pull on that deal in a heartbeat as a Laker fan...so I guess we have our answer if Sac is likely to agree to such an offer. |
I do agree, even if it’s 5 assets to get it done, I think its worth the investment and would be in favor of it. Buddy and Bags both have been unhappy in Sac and the feeling was reported to be mutual at least at points during the season so I suppose it’s possible Sac would go for it. Both guys (at least on paper) should be an upgrade for stats produced by Kuz/Trez/Gasol and (at least age-wise) match AD in life after LBJ assuming they work out.
DS 27
Buddy 28
KCP 28
AD 28
Bags 22
Unless we are talking about Dame, going with a trade like this is way preferable to gutting or hard capping the roster for the likes of Lowry, WB or even CP3. |
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