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Lakerz113
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 Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Could we be losing an assistant? Odd we are looking to add another with Fizdale, handy, and Hollins. I think your only allowed 3 assistant coaches on the bench if I’m not mistaking. |
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epic_
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Joined: 23 Jan 2020
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| Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Lakerz113 wrote: | | Could we be losing an assistant? Odd we are looking to add another with Fizdale, handy, and Hollins. I think your only allowed 3 assistant coaches on the bench if I’m not mistaking. |
I wonder if someone goes with Kidd or if Hollins retires.
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vasashi17+
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| Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: | | vasashi17+ wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | | Gotta love the thinking on here that re-pairing Brooks and Westbrook— two guys the NBA leaves further behind every year— would be a successful one here. |
With Russ, they were better than us this year in offensive rating.
https://go.nba.com/hat2
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That’s not saying much considering how uninspired our offense is beyond “Lebron do something.” Washington did well to surround him with shooters, even going five out a lot of the time. But there are few offenses he would be worse in than here. Pack the paint like every other team did against us and then just sag off and dare him to shoot. Lebron and aD going from option 1/2 to 2/3? Huge win for the defense. |
Brodie led last season in pts created by assists both in the regular season and playoffs. You figure you give him scorers like Bron & AD, he figures out a way for them to get more buckets.
https://go.nba.com/8nx8
Also I’m not really interested in getting Bron to handle the rock for the majority of the regular season. Bring him shooters? How ‘bout no?!
Folks keep complaining about how we could have been world beaters had our duo been healthy...maybe a good place to start is having your soon to be 37 y/o full time point gawd, play more offball and have someone else handle that responsibility for the majority of the game/season.
Beggars can’t be choosers. When you don’t have much to work with to go get better, you make good with what’s (realistically) available. Everybody would love & prioritize Dame or Steph here...but I know that you know we got no real ability to do that. If they blow it up and send Beal out, bring Brodie back home. |
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LakerSD
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Joined: 10 Nov 2016
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| Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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| epic_ wrote: | | Lakerz113 wrote: | | Could we be losing an assistant? Odd we are looking to add another with Fizdale, handy, and Hollins. I think your only allowed 3 assistant coaches on the bench if I’m not mistaking. |
I wonder if someone goes with Kidd or if Hollins retires. |
Wonder what Miles Simon status is... |
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epic_
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Joined: 23 Jan 2020
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| Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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How did the Brooks thread turned into the Westbrook thread?  But it's so crazy how much gravity he has on the drive. Of course not so much past the 3 point line.
Not sure how possible it is to get him, but I don't hate it as much as I thought I would at the moment.
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Kblo247!
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Joined: 05 Oct 2015
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| Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerSD wrote: | | epic_ wrote: | | Lakerz113 wrote: | | Could we be losing an assistant? Odd we are looking to add another with Fizdale, handy, and Hollins. I think your only allowed 3 assistant coaches on the bench if I’m not mistaking. |
I wonder if someone goes with Kidd or if Hollins retires. |
Wonder what Miles Simon status is... |
Phil had Rambis, Shaw, Clemons, Hamblen, and Tex all at once so it’s possible to have a big staff. You just have to be willing to pay for it and pick who your lead assistant is. |
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Inspector Gadget
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Joined: 18 Apr 2016
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| Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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| epic_ wrote: | How did the Brooks thread turned into the Westbrook thread? But it's so crazy how much gravity he has on the drive. Of course not so much past the 3 point line.
Not sure how possible it is to get him, but I don't hate it as much as I thought I would at the moment. |
I could definitely see Brooks pushing the Lakers FO to go after Westbrook, Westbrook had 1 of his best seasons in his career under him, granted Vogel will be the coach but maybe both of them had a good relationship in Washington. |
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epic_
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Joined: 23 Jan 2020
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| Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | epic_ wrote: | How did the Brooks thread turned into the Westbrook thread? But it's so crazy how much gravity he has on the drive. Of course not so much past the 3 point line.
Not sure how possible it is to get him, but I don't hate it as much as I thought I would at the moment. |
I could definitely see Brooks pushing the Lakers FO to go after Westbrook, Westbrook had 1 of his best seasons in his career under him, granted Vogel will be the coach but maybe both of them had a good relationship in Washington. |
Do you think LeBron can work on his shot to be 45% on wide open catch and shoot 3s?
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pjiddy
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| Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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| vasashi17+ wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | | vasashi17+ wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | | Gotta love the thinking on here that re-pairing Brooks and Westbrook— two guys the NBA leaves further behind every year— would be a successful one here. |
With Russ, they were better than us this year in offensive rating.
https://go.nba.com/hat2
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That’s not saying much considering how uninspired our offense is beyond “Lebron do something.” Washington did well to surround him with shooters, even going five out a lot of the time. But there are few offenses he would be worse in than here. Pack the paint like every other team did against us and then just sag off and dare him to shoot. Lebron and aD going from option 1/2 to 2/3? Huge win for the defense. |
Brodie led last season in pts created by assists both in the regular season and playoffs. You figure you give him scorers like Bron & AD, he figures out a way for them to get more buckets.
https://go.nba.com/8nx8
Also I’m not really interested in getting Bron to handle the rock for the majority of the regular season. Bring him shooters? How ‘bout no?!
Folks keep complaining about how we could have been world beaters had our duo been healthy...maybe a good place to start is having your soon to be 37 y/o full time point gawd, play more offball and have someone else handle that responsibility for the majority of the game/season.
Beggars can’t be choosers. When you don’t have much to work with to go get better, you make good with what’s (realistically) available. Everybody would love & prioritize Dame or Steph here...but I know that you know we got no real ability to do that. If they blow it up and send Beal out, bring Brodie back home. |
Trez would have to opt in and we’d be giving up the closest thing we have to a good shooter in KCP to get him.
What is our starting unit?
Russ
AC(hopefully?)
Lebron
AD
Inevitable Lane Clogging Center
Bench: Morris, THT, *8* minimum salary guys.
Spacing Apocalypse. How is Brodie creating with zero driving lanes? |
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27
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Joined: 26 Sep 2010
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Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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| jonnybravo wrote: | | hydrohead wrote: | Must be getting ready to trade for Westbrook.
ZOT ZOT ZOT |
Why're we doing the UCI anteater noise? |
must be a reference to Brooks being an Alum..def. no correlation to Westbrook |
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hydrohead
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| Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2021 2:04 am Post subject: |
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| 27 wrote: | | jonnybravo wrote: | | hydrohead wrote: | Must be getting ready to trade for Westbrook.
ZOT ZOT ZOT |
Why're we doing the UCI anteater noise? |
must be a reference to Brooks being an Alum..def. no correlation to Westbrook |
Hall of Fame Alum. There aren’t many of us in the Association.
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hydrohead
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| Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2021 2:31 am Post subject: |
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| Kblo247! wrote: | | LakerSD wrote: | | epic_ wrote: | | Lakerz113 wrote: | | Could we be losing an assistant? Odd we are looking to add another with Fizdale, handy, and Hollins. I think your only allowed 3 assistant coaches on the bench if I’m not mistaking. |
I wonder if someone goes with Kidd or if Hollins retires. |
Wonder what Miles Simon status is... |
Phil had Rambis, Shaw, Clemons, Hamblen, and Tex all at once so it’s possible to have a big staff. You just have to be willing to pay for it and pick who your lead assistant is. |
From the Rule Book:
The bench shall be occupied only by a league-approved head coach, a maximum of three assistant coaches, players and trainer.
It’s a big deal to be in the “front” or on the bench. So assuming Brooks and Fizdale are the bench; Handy or Hollins are in the back, retire or move to another org.
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Last edited by hydrohead on Sat Jul 03, 2021 2:39 am; edited 1 time in total |
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2019
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Posts: 10804
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| Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2021 2:38 am Post subject: |
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Personally, I was impressed with how down the stretch the Wiz really spread the floor to create space for Russ and Beal to operate while also playing with pace. Maybe not the HC you want but as an assistant? Seems like a nice addition to an already strong staff.
Vogel, Fizdale, Hollins, Handy, Brooks |
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A Mad Chinaman
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| Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2021 3:08 am Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | epic_ wrote: | How did the Brooks thread turned into the Westbrook thread? But it's so crazy how much gravity he has on the drive. Of course not so much past the 3 point line.
Not sure how possible it is to get him, but I don't hate it as much as I thought I would at the moment. |
I could definitely see Brooks pushing the Lakers FO to go after Westbrook, Westbrook had 1 of his best seasons in his career under him, granted Vogel will be the coach but maybe both of them had a good relationship in Washington. |
Great that the Lakers are rebuilding their coaching staff (https://sports.yahoo.com/report-lakers-interview-scott-brooks-030900390.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAGwYXE8WlwDKIeo-td9NlrLG1Jc-TOqAguR6Z3lv5UJ9xrPewMVZwwf6LW0wYwovSkwGeQPQM4C60Un13hG_x60sLOOtNxZtrw8BmQg6sZHAdW8w_2CkeO67_XMwWUi7uTP19DFFtAOCpcF5497cU1acQrussBOymtkxKM4seo15)
If Lakers need shooting, Westbrook would not be the best choice, especially since others such as Buddy Hild (for Kuzma, since Luke Walton knows his game - https://lakeshowlife.com/2021/06/27/los-angeles-lakers-rumors-trade-buddy-hield-2021/2/) are available
============
Offensive Breakdown
The Wizards run offensive plays most trips down the court, as does every NBA team. The plays are less apparent because of how the game is played — teams don’t crouch in formations at a line of scrimmage like they do in football — and there’s often not a clear start to a basketball play. One of the failures of NBA broadcasts is how little analysts discuss the Xs and Os.
The Wizards run much of their halfcourt offense out of “horns” and modified horns. From horns (and modified horns), the team flows into pick-and-roll, dribble handoffs, isolations, and screening actions. Spend some time watching video carefully and it’s apparent their offensive system is cohesive, complementary and thorough.
What I mean is that the sets they run interact with each other in ways that make life difficult for defenders. If I was more adept at film editing, I’d post some examples. One that springs to mind is a nasty little set play they ran back when the team was healthy enough to play games. The play involved screening actions that looked the same as pindowns they commonly run for Beal, Davis Bertans and various wings.
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One big takeaway is that the Wizards offense is not iso heavy. According to NBA tracking data, Washington is 10th in iso frequency, but it represents just 6.5% of their offensive plays. Their offense is dominated by spot-ups, transition, and pick-and-roll. If I back out transition plays, isos still represent just 7.8% of their halfcourt sets.
Here’s their offensive profile, including where they rank in the league and how often they run these actions:
Spotup — 20th, 21.6%
Transition — 5th, 17.6%
PnR ball handler — 23rd, 15.6%
Postup — 5th, 7.4%
Cut — 13th, 7.0%
Off screen — 1st, 7.0%
Iso — 10th, 6.5%
Misc. 7th, 6.4%
Handoff — 21st, 4.2%
PnR roll — 29th, 3.9%
Putbacks — 25th, 3.9%
The Wizards have been efficient in their most common halfcourt actions — they rank fifth in spotup efficiency and fourth in PnR ball handler plays. They’re 26th so far in transition opportunities, which could be a small sample size fluke or could be an indication they should slow down a bit.
The data suggests they could optimize with more pick-and-roll (complicated a bit by the injury to Thomas Bryant), screening actions, and isos. (Gotta say, when I sat down to analyze the data, I didn’t think I’d be suggesting more isos.)
One area for improvement is the team’s late game offensive performance. In high- and very-high leverage situations, the Wizards rely heavily on Beal. This makes some sense because Beal is a formidable offensive weapon. His late-game performance suggests he could use some help. He’s taken more than twice as many late-game shots as any of his teammates, and it’s largely hurt — he’s shot 5-21 (with 2 threes) in higher leverage 4th quarter situations this season.
In part two, I wrote about POOP shots — two-point attempts from outside three feet. The Wizards defense leads the league in inducing POOP shots. The Wizards offense feasts on them. Only the Orlando Magic have a higher POOP percentage. Here’s the top five:
Orlando Magic — 49.4%
Washington Wizards — 45.9%
Sacramento Kings — 41.2%
San Antonio Spurs — 40.1%
Los Angeles Clippers — 39.9%
While the Wizards offense is a strength, the data suggests Brooks could do more to boost efficiency and increase their relative advantage. Specifically, the team could slow down, run more of their higher efficiency offensive actions, and improve shot selection.
https://www.bulletsforever.com/2021/1/22/22244026/nba-washington-wizards-coach-scott-brooks-evaluating-offense |
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Car54
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| Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2021 6:40 am Post subject: Re: Report: Lakers interviewing Scott Brooks for coaching staff position |
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| pjiddy wrote: | https://twitter.com/TheSteinLine/status/1411136659471560705
......
I guess the sooner I accept that the Lakers aren't really a smart organization, but an occasionally lucky one despite almost nothing but questionable moves, the better off I'll be mental health wise. |
Please explain what's wrong with this move?
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Coach Vogel, Kidd, Hollins
Max slot : Kawhi |
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Halflife
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| Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2021 6:53 am Post subject: |
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| Other than Beal who other than Westbrook do the wiz have we like. |
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Texas_Pete
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| Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2021 6:55 am Post subject: |
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| epic_ wrote: | | Quote: |
Chris Mannix
@SIChrisMannix
Frank Vogel moving swiftly to replace Jason Kidd. First Fizdale and, as Stein notes, possibly Scott Brooks. Fizdale/Brooks would give the Lakers one of the strongest coaching staffs in the league. |
Crap, this moron said it makes our staff strong.
So maybe it is a bad move  |
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vasashi17+
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| Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2021 7:35 am Post subject: |
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@pjiddy: Lakers as a collective shot 35.4% from 3 last year. The Wiz shot 35.1%
https://go.nba.com/c9ty
On a minimum of > 100 3pa for the season, the Lakers best 3p shooters (> 35%) were:
McLemore (114a) 37%
Gasol (122a) 41%
AC (137a) 40%
Bron (285a) 37%
Kcp (293a) 41%
Kuz (380a) 36%
For the Wiz:
Neto (164a) 39%
Mathews (198a) 38%
Beal (375a) 35%
Bertans (428a) 40%
For reference, Russ (bleep) 32% on 273 attempts.
So the point is, the Wiz’s shooters took more attempts, but their shooting wasn’t necessarily what led to Russ and his playmaking being so effective. Russ didn’t really need their shooting to put up league leading numbers in playmaking.
As for how we get Russ via trade: you are correct that the easiest way is for Trez to opt in and get dealt. Or we S&t him, if he agrees to it after opting out. THT is also another option to be S&t and since he would be BYC (for example if he signed @ 11m using his early bird, he would count as 5.5m in outgoing salary), we would need to sign our #22 (2m) and fully guarantee McKinnie to aggregate them along with Kuz/Kcp to get the money right for Russ.
I know we lose our best 3ball shooter in Kcp, but imho elevating Bron as a scoring threat outweighs that risk.
Anyways, I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this cause I don’t share your disastrous outlook if Russ was the target this summer.
Btw, keeping Marc, while reupping McLemore, Kieff and Wes on minimums while still using the miniMLE to go find more shooting are not as restrictive mechanisms to help surround a Bron/AD/Russ trio since we wouldn’t be hard capped. We can even keep AC at an above the market price and shoot past the apron since Rob said Jeanie/ownership had no problem spending the tax this summer. |
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pjiddy
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| Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2021 8:25 am Post subject: |
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^i was under the impression you can’t aggregate contracts in a S&T situation.
Re: the shooting, I’d have to see spacing/gravity stats for both teams, which would tell us more about the driving lanes. The Wizards were at the bottom of the league in open to wide open 3 point attempts, which cursorily tells me that defenders stayed home on shooters, which makes sense when you have guys like Bertans and Beal. Our guys, apart from KCP, were pretty much dared to shoot. Teams having to respect Lebron’s 3 (which they don’t have to do with Russ) also makes a huge difference.
I might be more hopeful with Russ if we weren’t counting on Scott Brooks to “unlock” him, i mean come on. Do we do any kind of research with coaches/scheming at all or is it just “hey, Lakers fans will have heard of this guy”?
And i do hope we keep Marc, but after getting jerked around last year despite being our clear best option at the 5, and now adding Fizdale, I’m not very hopeful. |
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vasashi17+
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| Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2021 10:34 am Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: | ^i was under the impression you can’t aggregate contracts in a S&T situation.
Re: the shooting, I’d have to see spacing/gravity stats for both teams, which would tell us more about the driving lanes. The Wizards were at the bottom of the league in open to wide open 3 point attempts, which cursorily tells me that defenders stayed home on shooters, which makes sense when you have guys like Bertans and Beal. Our guys, apart from KCP, were pretty much dared to shoot. Teams having to respect Lebron’s 3 (which they don’t have to do with Russ) also makes a huge difference.
I might be more hopeful with Russ if we weren’t counting on Scott Brooks to “unlock” him, i mean come on. Do we do any kind of research with coaches/scheming at all or is it just “hey, Lakers fans will have heard of this guy”?
And i do hope we keep Marc, but after getting jerked around last year despite being our clear best option at the 5, and now adding Fizdale, I’m not very hopeful. |
I agree with you on our coaching hires/personnel deals aiming to unlock certain players. Obviously Kidd/Kostas/Schro/Octagon did not unlock Giannis for us and the way we handled Kcp/Klutch for Bron/AD tells us that line of thinking was certainly part of why we brought those guys on in the first place.
So I’m not excited about a Brooks hire. However I absolutely would welcome a Russ deal and if Brooks has any influence in that matter, then great, otherwise the OC hire as is doesn’t really do it for me.
Trust me, I know that spacing matters, but I also know that roles matter and frankly (pun intended) I do not want Vogs trotting out Bron at starting point anymore. We spare him (and his super soldier serumed DNA) that regular season responsibility and I feel really good that he injects more playmaking responsibilities during the playoffs since he’ll have enough juice in the tank to do so.
As for aggregating S&t’d players, see the BK-Dubs double S&t that involved KD for DLo/Shabazz/Trevon. Since the Nets were not over the cap, DLo was not BYC for them. Since KD’s previous contract was within the 120% of his player option, he was not considered BYC either. The Nets needed to send out about 30.5m in outgoing salary and had to aggregate DLo’s S&t’d deal along with those other guys. Not sure if they used some of their cap space to grease the deal through, so not sure if I’m completely right here, but nonguaranteed deals of Shabazz & Graham were made guaranteed to aggregate to DLo S&t’d deal and since he was going to hit the Dubs books, they were hard capped, so I’m sure they really didn’t trade those other guys into vet min exceptions cause they really didn’t want to eat extra salary if it wasn’t needed (see trading Iggy for nothing of substance in return). |
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pjiddy
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| Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2021 11:30 am Post subject: |
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First of all, we can trade for Westbrook whether he really wants it or not. And I would assume he'd rather play in Los Angeles--his hometown--with Lebron and AD than he would on a 10-seed. Do we really need Brooks here to "convince" him? Trade for him or don't, but that shouldn't have any bearing on our O-coordinator hiring. There has to be dozens of better options than Brooks and the Lakers seem incapable of researching that, is my primary problem.
If we can only sign coaches that casual fans have heard of, why can't we go after Alvin Gentry? |
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Halflife
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| Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2021 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Props to Vogel and the confidence in himself to hire these guys, |
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Gellollo
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| Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2021 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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| hydrohead wrote: | Must be getting ready to trade for Westbrook.
ZOT ZOT ZOT |
Westbrook went to my HS, and I went to UCI. No one asked I know lol |
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vasashi17+
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Joined: 13 Dec 2019
Posts: 5611
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| Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2021 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: | First of all, we can trade for Westbrook whether he really wants it or not. And I would assume he'd rather play in Los Angeles--his hometown--with Lebron and AD than he would on a 10-seed. Do we really need Brooks here to "convince" him? Trade for him or don't, but that shouldn't have any bearing on our O-coordinator hiring. There has to be dozens of better options than Brooks and the Lakers seem incapable of researching that, is my primary problem.
If we can only sign coaches that casual fans have heard of, why can't we go after Alvin Gentry? |
You’re not wrong. Brooks doesn’t really do it for me either unless it factors into Russ asking that he comes with him as a combo package.
I think him “forcing” his way here happens if he knows Beal is out and the Wiz are ready to blow it up. |
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panamaniac
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Location: PTY
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| Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2021 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Would prefer Alvin Gentry over Scotty Brooks, but I’m just a fan so what do I know. If Brooks is brought in then I hope he does a good job with the offense. |
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