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epic_
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 Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerSD wrote: |
 This is why you are a valued member of the LG community. |
We are team "Analytics and Eye Test" + Twitter Connoisseurs!
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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I can't believe there are people who think Drummond is/was worth a max contract, and even a MMLE.
I'll take him at the minimum, or maybe a split of the MMLE at best. |
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RashardA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | I can't believe there are people who think Drummond is/was worth a max contract, and even a MMLE.
I'll take him at the minimum, or maybe a split of the MMLE at best. |
Not even for the minimum.
He does not fit.
The Lakers need to get rid of the poison in the locker room.
He's part of the problem.
Give me a player with worse stats but who's a better fit.
Knows and embraces his role.
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LakerSD
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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| epic_ wrote: | | LakerSD wrote: |
This is why you are a valued member of the LG community. |
We are team "Analytics and Eye Test" + Twitter Connoisseurs! |
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LakersRGolden
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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Not sure you can tell about fit when he played 4 games with Lebron and AD.
Besides AD, he is the only big we had that could defend in the midrange. With AD, an above average caliber 5 is a luxury so I don't think he works economically but I wouldn't call the AD2 experiment anything but incomplete. |
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epic_
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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| LakersRGolden wrote: | Not sure you can tell about fit when he played 4 games with Lebron and AD.
Besides AD, he is the only big we had that could defend in the midrange. With AD, an above average caliber 5 is a luxury so I don't think he works economically but I wouldn't call the AD2 experiment anything but incomplete. |
Drums can guard the midrange? Meaning against guards? I don't recall him doing that well. But will need to relook.
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MJST
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governator
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | Lakers will likely offer him the MLE. |
doubt it man, it hard capped us, prob miniMLE |
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epic_
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | Lakers will likely offer him the MLE. |
doubt it man, it hard capped us, prob miniMLE |
I hope MJST was meaning the tax payer MLE (approx $5.xM) and not the non tax payer MLE (approx $9.xM and hard caps us). It might happen.
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hydrohead
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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| epic_ wrote: | | governator wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | Lakers will likely offer him the MLE. |
doubt it man, it hard capped us, prob miniMLE |
I hope MJST was meaning the tax payer MLE (approx $5.xM) and not the non tax payer MLE (approx $9.xM and hard caps us). It might happen. |
Although i think Drum will get a salary equivalent to the non tax payer mle, it won’t come from the Lakers. it would limit them in resigning their free agent unless they salary dump Kuz and/or KCP.
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A Mad Chinaman
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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| epic_ wrote: | | LakersRGolden wrote: | Not sure you can tell about fit when he played 4 games with Lebron and AD.
Besides AD, he is the only big we had that could defend in the midrange. With AD, an above average caliber 5 is a luxury so I don't think he works economically but I wouldn't call the AD2 experiment anything but incomplete. |
Drums can guard the midrange? Meaning against guards? I don't recall him doing that well. But will need to relook. |
POTENTIALLY, he has the athleticism to guard the midrange, if he wants to
If Drummond wants a Max Contract, no elie title-contending team would want him at his salary demands
If Drummond want to prove that he can be a valuable asset and understand that everybody has a role in a team that wins the championship - he will take the appropriate one year contract (since he already made many millions in his past contract)
If Drummond understands that he doesn't have the skillset to close games (AD will be at the 5) - offensively and defensively, he will make a good teammate
or maybe he has to be humbled again and again, along with recognizing that HOFers like CP3 took 16 years to get to The Finals |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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| A Mad Chinaman wrote: |
If Drummond wants a Max Contract, no elie title-contending team would want him at his salary demands
If Drummond want to prove that he can be a valuable asset and understand that everybody has a role in a team that wins the championship - he will take the appropriate one year contract (since he already made many millions in his past contract) |
No one's going to offer him a max contract (and if they do, he'd be a fool to turn it down.)
But it will be interesting to see what he does:
1. Take the biggest offer from a crappy team like OKC.
2. Take a bigger offer from a team like the Knicks or Mavericks, who don't look like contenders but you never know (no one thought the Sun would be a contender at the start of the season.)
3. Take less money from one of the consensus contenders. But then the question is will that be from the Lakers, or the Clippers, or the Nets, or someone else.
I suspect his agent is shaking the tree branches at this very moment. I can't really begrudge him any choice he makes. If he goes for the biggest offer, well, the money is the only thing that's guaranteed. |
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A Mad Chinaman
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| Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2021 10:11 am Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | A Mad Chinaman wrote: |
If Drummond wants a Max Contract, no elie title-contending team would want him at his salary demands
If Drummond want to prove that he can be a valuable asset and understand that everybody has a role in a team that wins the championship - he will take the appropriate one year contract (since he already made many millions in his past contract) |
No one's going to offer him a max contract (and if they do, he'd be a fool to turn it down.)
But it will be interesting to see what he does:
1. Take the biggest offer from a crappy team like OKC.
2. Take a bigger offer from a team like the Knicks or Mavericks, who don't look like contenders but you never know (no one thought the Sun would be a contender at the start of the season.)
3. Take less money from one of the consensus contenders. But then the question is will that be from the Lakers, or the Clippers, or the Nets, or someone else.
I suspect his agent is shaking the tree branches at this very moment. I can't really begrudge him any choice he makes. If he goes for the biggest offer, well, the money is the only thing that's guaranteed. |
If he takes a Max contract from a crappy team, his financial position will be secured with the cost being that he will never come close to winning a ring
If he takes a "bigger" offer from the Knicks, why would Drummond do that and how would he play next to Randle - who needs to be in the paint to be effective (while noting that he has improved his outside shot)
If he takes a "bigger" offer from the Mavs, there is another logjam in the paint with Porzingis. |
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A Mad Chinaman
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| Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2021 10:12 am Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | A Mad Chinaman wrote: |
If Drummond wants a Max Contract, no elie title-contending team would want him at his salary demands
If Drummond want to prove that he can be a valuable asset and understand that everybody has a role in a team that wins the championship - he will take the appropriate one year contract (since he already made many millions in his past contract) |
No one's going to offer him a max contract (and if they do, he'd be a fool to turn it down.)
But it will be interesting to see what he does:
1. Take the biggest offer from a crappy team like OKC.
2. Take a bigger offer from a team like the Knicks or Mavericks, who don't look like contenders but you never know (no one thought the Sun would be a contender at the start of the season.)
3. Take less money from one of the consensus contenders. But then the question is will that be from the Lakers, or the Clippers, or the Nets, or someone else.
I suspect his agent is shaking the tree branches at this very moment. I can't really begrudge him any choice he makes. If he goes for the biggest offer, well, the money is the only thing that's guaranteed. |
If he takes a Max contract from a crappy team, his financial position will be secured with the cost being that he will never come close to winning a ring
If he takes a "bigger" offer from the Knicks, why would Drummond do that and how would he play next to Randle - who needs to be in the paint to be effective (while noting that he has improved his outside shot)
If he takes a "bigger" offer from the Mavs, there is another logjam in the paint with Porzingis. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2021 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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| A Mad Chinaman wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | A Mad Chinaman wrote: |
If Drummond wants a Max Contract, no elie title-contending team would want him at his salary demands
If Drummond want to prove that he can be a valuable asset and understand that everybody has a role in a team that wins the championship - he will take the appropriate one year contract (since he already made many millions in his past contract) |
No one's going to offer him a max contract (and if they do, he'd be a fool to turn it down.)
But it will be interesting to see what he does:
1. Take the biggest offer from a crappy team like OKC.
2. Take a bigger offer from a team like the Knicks or Mavericks, who don't look like contenders but you never know (no one thought the Sun would be a contender at the start of the season.)
3. Take less money from one of the consensus contenders. But then the question is will that be from the Lakers, or the Clippers, or the Nets, or someone else.
I suspect his agent is shaking the tree branches at this very moment. I can't really begrudge him any choice he makes. If he goes for the biggest offer, well, the money is the only thing that's guaranteed. |
If he takes a Max contract from a crappy team, his financial position will be secured with the cost being that he will never come close to winning a ring
If he takes a "bigger" offer from the Knicks, why would Drummond do that and how would he play next to Randle - who needs to be in the paint to be effective (while noting that he has improved his outside shot)
If he takes a "bigger" offer from the Mavs, there is another logjam in the paint with Porzingis. |
(1) Drummond is only 28. He could sign a big three or four year contract without giving up hopes for a ring. A big like him could play until his mid or late 30s and latch onto a contender as a backup at the end of his career. Also, I don't assume a player is going to prioritize a better chance of winning a ring over guaranteed money; for many players, the money IS the winning.
(2) Knicks could certainly play him with Randle at PF. Might not work out well, but they could do it.
(3) The Mavericks thing was assuming they traded Porz. But if not the Mavericks, it could be another team in the category of potential but not likely contenders. The three general categories are more important than the specific teams, because there will always be teams that fit into each of the three categories.
The main point is there are a lot of possibility options, and a lot of different potential balances of role, money, and chance of winning that Drummond will be able to choose from. And it will be a spectrum of choices -- not so simple as lots of money or the Lakers for the minimum. |
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A Mad Chinaman
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2021 12:09 am Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | A Mad Chinaman wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | A Mad Chinaman wrote: | If Drummond wants a Max Contract, no elie title-contending team would want him at his salary demands
If Drummond want to prove that he can be a valuable asset and understand that everybody has a role in a team that wins the championship - he will take the appropriate one year contract (since he already made many millions in his past contract) |
No one's going to offer him a max contract (and if they do, he'd be a fool to turn it down.)
But it will be interesting to see what he does:
1. Take the biggest offer from a crappy team like OKC.
2. Take a bigger offer from a team like the Knicks or Mavericks, who don't look like contenders but you never know (no one thought the Sun would be a contender at the start of the season.)
3. Take less money from one of the consensus contenders. But then the question is will that be from the Lakers, or the Clippers, or the Nets, or someone else.
I suspect his agent is shaking the tree branches at this very moment. I can't really begrudge him any choice he makes. If he goes for the biggest offer, well, the money is the only thing that's guaranteed. |
If he takes a Max contract from a crappy team, his financial position will be secured with the cost being that he will never come close to winning a ring
If he takes a "bigger" offer from the Knicks, why would Drummond do that and how would he play next to Randle - who needs to be in the paint to be effective (while noting that he has improved his outside shot)
If he takes a "bigger" offer from the Mavs, there is another logjam in the paint with Porzingis. |
(1) Drummond is only 28. He could sign a big three or four year contract without giving up hopes for a ring. A big like him could play until his mid or late 30s and latch onto a contender as a backup at the end of his career. Also, I don't assume a player is going to prioritize a better chance of winning a ring over guaranteed money; for many players, the money IS the winning.
(2) Knicks could certainly play him with Randle at PF. Might not work out well, but they could do it.
(3) The Mavericks thing was assuming they traded Porz. But if not the Mavericks, it could be another team in the category of potential but not likely contenders. The three general categories are more important than the specific teams, because there will always be teams that fit into each of the three categories.
The main point is there are a lot of possibility options, and a lot of different potential balances of role, money, and chance of winning that Drummond will be able to choose from. And it will be a spectrum of choices -- not so simple as lots of money or the Lakers for the minimum. |
At the end of Drummond's career, he could be a role player playing limited minutes on a team that wins a ring (ala Dwight, McGhee and countless others like what Blake Griffin was hoping).
He will NOT be one of the players that are "Driving the Bus" to a Ring.
Since his suprprising inability to have a higher closing/finishing average for a big seems to indicate that he has Kwame Brown-like hands. As the below-listed description stated, he needed to develop this aspect of his game and he hasn't done it yet so what you see is what you will be getting - especially since Drummond doesn't feel the need to any additional skills to his game (see his interviews)
Since he doesn't have a mid-range game to his shooting qne he is clogging the lane, what will his effectiveness be against elite teams' starting centers
Since he has not been consistent in getting 10+ rebounds per game, what is he doing on the court. As noted in the 2012 scouting report, hustle and drive have been an issue since the very beginning
Since he doesn't have Dwight's energy, despite his athleticism, what benefits will/could Drummond bring
In 2012, it was stated that
"Strengths: Simply put, he has size and athleticism. How often do you find a 6'10'', 270-pound guy who has the ability to beat some much smaller players in a foot race down the court? Drummond is a gifted shot blocker down low, and his finishing ability in the paint is improving as well."
"Weaknesses: Laziness could be the biggest downfall of Drummond's NBA career. His immaturity showed too much throughout the course of his freshman season, and that's why his numbers are not exactly staggering.
Work ethic is especially key for a post player who must w"
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1234956-2012-nba-draft-andre-drummonds-strengths-and-weaknesses
After 10+ years in the NBA, has he lost the ability to beat opposing centers down the court - like he did in the past
Noting his NBA stats, most of his highs regarding individual stats during the regular season has been against medicore team.
https://basketball.realgm.com/player/Andre-Drummond/Bests/24241
Who is more effective on the offensive side in the paint - Randle or Drummond
Answer: Randle
Who would have the greatest impact on the Mavs (assumong both are healthy) - Porzingus or Drummond
Answer: Parzingus
If Drummond's highest priority is to get the most $$$$ he possibilty can, he is leaving the Lakers
If Drummond is looking to be a good to great NBA center that has multiple rings that will result in more $$$$ over the course of his entire career, he will play for the Lakers
If Drummond feels that he already possess the skills to be an elite center and part of a perennial title-contending team, he should go get his money at a bottom tier team
If Drummond is intereted in being an effective member of a title-winning team by knowing his role and being the best at it - staying with the Lakers would be a viable option since it doesn't get any better than LBJ and AD.
He has the right to make any decision he wants
Lakers have the right to pick the players who would do anything to win rings because they know that will generate the gretest amount of earnings over the ourse of a nBA career |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2021 10:05 am Post subject: |
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| A Mad Chinaman wrote: |
If Drummond's highest priority is to get the most $$$$ he possibilty can, he is leaving the Lakers
If Drummond is looking to be a good to great NBA center that has multiple rings that will result in more $$$$ over the course of his entire career, he will play for the Lakers
If Drummond feels that he already possess the skills to be an elite center and part of a perennial title-contending team, he should go get his money at a bottom tier team
If Drummond is intereted in being an effective member of a title-winning team by knowing his role and being the best at it - staying with the Lakers would be a viable option since it doesn't get any better than LBJ and AD.
He has the right to make any decision he wants
Lakers have the right to pick the players who would do anything to win rings because they know that will generate the gretest amount of earnings over the ourse of a nBA career |
I disagree with the notion that taking less money now and then winning some rings is necessarily the pathway to the greatest money for Drummond. That could go a lot of different directions.
Anyway, I am interesting to see what offers he actually gets. I could see him coming back, but I could also see him going to the Clippers, or the Nets, or the Celtics, or a number of other teams. |
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MookieBetts50
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2021 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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Lol this fool would rather play in China, don't let the door hit ur ass on the way out!   |
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epic_
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2021 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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| MookieBetts50 wrote: | | Lol this fool would rather play in China, don't let the door hit ur ass on the way out! |
Sounded like a joke to me heh.
I wonder if he comes back for the tpmle
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A Mad Chinaman
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| Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2021 8:36 am Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | A Mad Chinaman wrote: | If Drummond's highest priority is to get the most $$$$ he possibilty can, he is leaving the Lakers
If Drummond is looking to be a good to great NBA center that has multiple rings that will result in more $$$$ over the course of his entire career, he will play for the Lakers
If Drummond feels that he already possess the skills to be an elite center and part of a perennial title-contending team, he should go get his money at a bottom tier team
If Drummond is intereted in being an effective member of a title-winning team by knowing his role and being the best at it - staying with the Lakers would be a viable option since it doesn't get any better than LBJ and AD.
He has the right to make any decision he wants
Lakers have the right to pick the players who would do anything to win rings because they know that will generate the gretest amount of earnings over the ourse of a nBA career |
I disagree with the notion that taking less money now and then winning some rings is necessarily the pathway to the greatest money for Drummond. That could go a lot of different directions.
Anyway, I am interesting to see what offers he actually gets. I could see him coming back, but I could also see him going to the Clippers, or the Nets, or the Celtics, or a number of other teams. |
IMHO - these are his choices
If he already possesses the NBA SKILLS & Mindset to be an elite player on a perennial highly favored title-contending team, go for the $$$$ because there will be a lot of suitors.
Reality is that he needs to add/fine-tune his game and have a stronger drive
When LBJ/AD were both injuried, that was his opportunity to shine
Even with teams with $30+ cap space like the Magic would rather spend its focus on developing players such as Mo Bamba
Why would the Clips start Drummond over Zubac?????
The Nets went small with Blake while using KD at the 5 during crunch time
Would you take Drummond over Tristan and Williams, if you were Brad Stevens????
He will definitely offers with teams that have enough cap space and little chance of realistically winning a ring without him having to improve his game
Presently, these are the ways to attack Drummond
* Have a 5 that will outwork and outrun him with Rim-to-Rim runs
* Force him to shoot (if he can get the ball) since he is nit very efficient at the rim
* Foul him at critical times since he is a bad free-throw shooter
* Block him out when rebounding but recognize that he is not a consistent high-volume rebounder
* He is not a consistent and legitimate P&R player
* Force a switch and take him to the perimeter
How many teams have the personnel, coaching and system that can cover his weaknesses?
Drummond is 27 and has already earned $137M and has the net worth of $40M, with many predicting that the contract offers will now be south of $20M per year (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sportscasting.com/andre-drummond-has-earned-more-than-100-million-playing-for-bad-teams/%3famp)
Having a legitimate chance to get a ring doesn’t come around often - even to elite HOF players - just ask CP3, Lillard, Beal, Dirk, AD, Mailman, Mr Clutch, Elgin, KG, Stockton and countless others
It would be great for the Lakers to have him on the team, but Drummond needs the Lakers far greater than the Lakers need him
Wish him the best of luck in whatever decision he makes |
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MJST
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| Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2021 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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Drummond's value right now is at an all time low. He got bought out by a team that decided he wasn't worth 27M a year.
Then he did himself no favors on the Lakers, as there was no time to gain chemistry, and it showed his shortcomings on the world stage. Particularly with other centers in the league showing what they can do, the fact a last place team cut him, spoke volumes about where he was valued.
At this point Drummond is lucky to make 4-7M on his next contract.
It would be in his best interests to sign a one year deal, and try to play his value up. But he's likely never going to see a 27M a year contract again or anywhere close.
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Dr. Laker
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| Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:10 am Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | Drummond's value right now is at an all time low. He got bought out by a team that decided he wasn't worth 27M a year.
Then he did himself no favors on the Lakers, as there was no time to gain chemistry, and it showed his shortcomings on the world stage. Particularly with other centers in the league showing what they can do, the fact a last place team cut him, spoke volumes about where he was valued.
At this point Drummond is lucky to make 4-7M on his next contract.
It would be in his best interests to sign a one year deal, and try to play his value up. But he's likely never going to see a 27M a year contract again or anywhere close. |
Drummond will get $100M from some team. Be thankful that it can't be the Clippers. Drummond is a rebounding monster who can do other things, as well. He just never got to show it here.
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LakerSD
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| Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:29 am Post subject: |
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| Dr. Laker wrote: | | MJST wrote: | Drummond's value right now is at an all time low. He got bought out by a team that decided he wasn't worth 27M a year.
Then he did himself no favors on the Lakers, as there was no time to gain chemistry, and it showed his shortcomings on the world stage. Particularly with other centers in the league showing what they can do, the fact a last place team cut him, spoke volumes about where he was valued.
At this point Drummond is lucky to make 4-7M on his next contract.
It would be in his best interests to sign a one year deal, and try to play his value up. But he's likely never going to see a 27M a year contract again or anywhere close. |
Drummond will get $100M from some team. Be thankful that it can't be the Clippers. Drummond is a rebounding monster who can do other things, as well. He just never got to show it here. |
Zero chance he gets $100M. No one is THAT stupid. |
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A Mad Chinaman
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| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerSD wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | | MJST wrote: | Drummond's value right now is at an all time low. He got bought out by a team that decided he wasn't worth 27M a year.
Then he did himself no favors on the Lakers, as there was no time to gain chemistry, and it showed his shortcomings on the world stage. Particularly with other centers in the league showing what they can do, the fact a last place team cut him, spoke volumes about where he was valued.
At this point Drummond is lucky to make 4-7M on his next contract.
It would be in his best interests to sign a one year deal, and try to play his value up. But he's likely never going to see a 27M a year contract again or anywhere close. |
Drummond will get $100M from some team. Be thankful that it can't be the Clippers. Drummond is a rebounding monster who can do other things, as well. He just never got to show it here. |
Zero chance he gets $100M. No one is THAT stupid. |
There will be teams that stupid or need a high contract to meet the minumem salary floor - lol!
What does Drummond bring to the Lakers
* Bringe energy - problem since he has been drafted
* Rebounds - Inconsistent and rarely against top centers/teams
* Offensive - nope
* Block shots - inconsistent
* P&R - nope |
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activeverb
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 11:44 pm Post subject: |
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| A Mad Chinaman wrote: |
What does Drummond bring to the Lakers
* Bringe energy - problem since he has been drafted
* Rebounds - Inconsistent and rarely against top centers/teams
* Offensive - nope
* Block shots - inconsistent
* P&R - nope |
Drummond has the 7th best per-game rebounding average in NBA history.
Pretending he does nothing well doesn't make your opinion stronger; it just undercuts the legitimate criticisms. |
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