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CervantesRises
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 Posted: Sun May 16, 2021 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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| cencio_999 wrote: | | Putting Lebron in that list is just ridicolous. |
1. Jeannie is entitled to her own opinion.
2. It's a stupid list...not a direct slight to West.
3. Bron won a ring for the franchise during the season we lost Kobe...if that doesnt catapult him into Laker lore when he didnt have to even be here then what could? While Bron was doing that West was taking a major deuce on us behind the scenes.
4. It's a stupid list that only has gotten any attention because West was clear butt hurt by the perceived slight which says more about him than Jeannie anyways.
5. It's a stupid list.
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CervantesRises
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| Posted: Sun May 16, 2021 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | To me, the five most important Lakers in terms of overall impact to the organization:
Jerry West
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Magic Johnson
Shaquille O'Neal
Kobe Bryant
...
Lots of people tough to leave out ... my next 5 would be:
George Mikan
Elgin Baylor
Pat Riley
Phil Jackson
Lebron James |
I'm amazed at how often Chick gets ignored...Chick sold the team to tens of millions of fans for 33 years...that's kind of important.
Also...West gets a lot of credit as a GM but championships are won by players.
We dont get Magic...there is no West is a great GM talk and if that doesnt happen is he even there to pull off the miracle summer of 96?
Yes he got us Kobe and Shaq...and yes he hired Del Harris and stuck with him for failure after failure until Dr. Buss stepped in to keep Shaq happy and bring Phil out of retirement in Australia body surfing with Luc Longley.
To say West was more important that Phil is debatable. To say Phil was more important than West is debatable. West wasnt winning without Phil and Phil wasnt winning without Kobe and Shaq. And Kobe and Shaq aren't Lakers without West...so...
It's a stupid list...we can argue incessantly or appreciate how special it all is...I voted for being thankful I've seen 11 and counting...that's what matters.
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kwase
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| Posted: Sun May 16, 2021 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | Quote: | | yet Jerry West, a guy that was associated with the Lakers for 40 years, is not entitled to be upset with not being appreciated for what he's done for the organization. |
Totally. I mean, we retired his jersey and built a (bleep) statue of him outside the arena but maybe one day we’ll get around to appreciating Jerry West. |
I think people have short memories. This is the same message board that blasted Kobe for signing his last contract when he brought us 5 rings. This country is definitely a "what have you done for me lately" culture. As much as these modern-day athletes whine about every little thing you'd think Mr. West would get a pass. |
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kwase
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| Posted: Sun May 16, 2021 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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| CervantesRises wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | To me, the five most important Lakers in terms of overall impact to the organization:
Jerry West
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Magic Johnson
Shaquille O'Neal
Kobe Bryant
...
Lots of people tough to leave out ... my next 5 would be:
George Mikan
Elgin Baylor
Pat Riley
Phil Jackson
Lebron James |
I'm amazed at how often Chick gets ignored...Chick sold the team to tens of millions of fans for 33 years...that's kind of important.
Also...West gets a lot of credit as a GM but championships are won by players.
We dont get Magic...there is no West is a great GM talk and if that doesnt happen is he even there to pull off the miracle summer of 96?
Yes he got us Kobe and Shaq...and yes he hired Del Harris and stuck with him for failure after failure until Dr. Buss stepped in to keep Shaq happy and bring Phil out of retirement in Australia body surfing with Luc Longley.
To say West was more important that Phil is debatable. To say Phil was more important than West is debatable. West wasnt winning without Phil and Phil wasnt winning without Kobe and Shaq. And Kobe and Shaq aren't Lakers without West...so...
It's a stupid list...we can argue incessantly or appreciate how special it all is...I voted for being thankful I've seen 11 and counting...that's what matters. |
Let's be honest...when the Lakers first came to L.A. in 1960 they were not welcomed with open arms. The Dodgers and Rams were the big teams here, and the Lakers were a distant stepchild. Three people are responsible for turning it around...Jerry West, Elgin Baylor and Chick Hearn. Without them, along with Dr. Buss buying the team in 1979 we could easily be the clippers. |
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CervantesRises
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| Posted: Sun May 16, 2021 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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| kwase wrote: | | CervantesRises wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | To me, the five most important Lakers in terms of overall impact to the organization:
Jerry West
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Magic Johnson
Shaquille O'Neal
Kobe Bryant
...
Lots of people tough to leave out ... my next 5 would be:
George Mikan
Elgin Baylor
Pat Riley
Phil Jackson
Lebron James |
I'm amazed at how often Chick gets ignored...Chick sold the team to tens of millions of fans for 33 years...that's kind of important.
Also...West gets a lot of credit as a GM but championships are won by players.
We dont get Magic...there is no West is a great GM talk and if that doesnt happen is he even there to pull off the miracle summer of 96?
Yes he got us Kobe and Shaq...and yes he hired Del Harris and stuck with him for failure after failure until Dr. Buss stepped in to keep Shaq happy and bring Phil out of retirement in Australia body surfing with Luc Longley.
To say West was more important that Phil is debatable. To say Phil was more important than West is debatable. West wasnt winning without Phil and Phil wasnt winning without Kobe and Shaq. And Kobe and Shaq aren't Lakers without West...so...
It's a stupid list...we can argue incessantly or appreciate how special it all is...I voted for being thankful I've seen 11 and counting...that's what matters. |
Let's be honest...when the Lakers first came to L.A. in 1960 they were not welcomed with open arms. The Dodgers and Rams were the big teams here, and the Lakers were a distant stepchild. Three people are responsible for turning it around...Jerry West, Elgin Baylor and Chick Hearn. Without them, along with Dr. Buss buying the team in 1979 we could easily be the clippers. |
Dr. Buss
Chick
Magic
Kobe
Cap
Starting 5
Magic
Kobe
Bron
AD/Worthy/Pau/Mikan take your pick
Cap/Shaq/Wilt take your pick
Hall of Fame
Cap
Magic
Kobe
Shaq
Bron
Wilt
West
Worthy
Baylor
Gail
Coaches
Phil
Riles
Kundla?
GM
West
Mitch
Rob
It's no slight on West but he's not a top 5 anything for the franchise except GM simply because we're spoiled with HoFers all over the place. Had he won more than 1 that would be different...but we just don't celebrate being #2 which he was the best at as a player sadly.
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moonriver24
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CervantesRises
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| Posted: Sun May 16, 2021 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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| moonriver24 wrote: | Where is Kwame Brown on the list?
He got us Gasol. |
What? No Vlade for Kobe AND Shaq love?
There is an argument to be made Divac is the most important Laker of all time.
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moonriver24
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| Posted: Sun May 16, 2021 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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| CervantesRises wrote: | | moonriver24 wrote: | Where is Kwame Brown on the list?
He got us Gasol. |
What? No Vlade for Kobe AND Shaq love?
There is an argument to be made Divac is the most important Laker of all time. |
Well, you got a point. But Divac was a very very good center at the time, at the era when centers were still a most important piece to many teams. Kobe? Well, a potential high schooler. So, still within reasonable trade scenarios. Close to a no-brainer. But Kwame for Gasol?? Now, that was a real steal!!
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1995Lakers
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| Posted: Sun May 16, 2021 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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| moonriver24 wrote: | | CervantesRises wrote: | | moonriver24 wrote: | Where is Kwame Brown on the list?
He got us Gasol. |
What? No Vlade for Kobe AND Shaq love?
There is an argument to be made Divac is the most important Laker of all time. |
Well, you got a point. But Divac was a very very good center at the time, at the era when centers were still a most important piece to many teams. Kobe? Well, a potential high schooler. So, still within reasonable trade scenarios. Close to a no-brainer. But Kwame for Gasol?? Now, that was a real steal!! |
In the 90s:
1. Olajuwon
2. Shaq
3. Robinson
4. Ewing
5. Mourning
6. Mutombo
7. Smits
8. Vlade
Top 10 C in the era where Centers were the highest value position is very worth it when the Hornets were weak at Center and all for a high school kid who played the same position as two of the best shooters in the league in Glen Rice and Dell Curry and in Rice's case - one of the top players in the league at the time. Bob Bass wasnt being an idiot....its just Jerry West saw the future in Kobe in 1996. |
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oaktown_dimond
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| Posted: Mon May 17, 2021 1:24 am Post subject: |
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Well, to be fair, it wasn't kwame for pau... It was kwame AND Marc gasol for pau. So, not as hellaciously lopsided in actuality.
Worked out for everyone.
| moonriver24 wrote: | | CervantesRises wrote: | | moonriver24 wrote: | Where is Kwame Brown on the list?
He got us Gasol. |
What? No Vlade for Kobe AND Shaq love?
There is an argument to be made Divac is the most important Laker of all time. |
Well, you got a point. But Divac was a very very good center at the time, at the era when centers were still a most important piece to many teams. Kobe? Well, a potential high schooler. So, still within reasonable trade scenarios. Close to a no-brainer. But Kwame for Gasol?? Now, that was a real steal!! |
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cencio_999
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| Posted: Mon May 17, 2021 8:27 am Post subject: |
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| CervantesRises wrote: | | cencio_999 wrote: | | Putting Lebron in that list is just ridicolous. |
1. Jeannie is entitled to her own opinion.
2. It's a stupid list...not a direct slight to West.
3. Bron won a ring for the franchise during the season we lost Kobe...if that doesnt catapult him into Laker lore when he didnt have to even be here then what could? While Bron was doing that West was taking a major deuce on us behind the scenes.
4. It's a stupid list that only has gotten any attention because West was clear butt hurt by the perceived slight which says more about him than Jeannie anyways.
5. It's a stupid list. |
1. Like everyone else. Difference is if you are the owner of the lakers, or the POTUS or a politician or anything like that, you should reflect better before voicing your opinion.
2. I agree, and that was my stupid post in a stupid thread about thar stupid list.
3. Kobe has nothing to do with this, as it doesn't what jerry is doing now for the clippers after he proposed to work for us and was turned down.
4. See n.2 and first sentence in n. 1.
5. See n.2 |
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focus
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Posts: 2526
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| Posted: Mon May 17, 2021 11:51 am Post subject: |
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| JW is pretending he's mad to send competitive message of battle for LA to his players from on high to get them feisty. |
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CervantesRises
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| Posted: Mon May 17, 2021 11:52 am Post subject: |
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| cencio_999 wrote: | | CervantesRises wrote: | | cencio_999 wrote: | | Putting Lebron in that list is just ridicolous. |
1. Jeannie is entitled to her own opinion.
2. It's a stupid list...not a direct slight to West.
3. Bron won a ring for the franchise during the season we lost Kobe...if that doesnt catapult him into Laker lore when he didnt have to even be here then what could? While Bron was doing that West was taking a major deuce on us behind the scenes.
4. It's a stupid list that only has gotten any attention because West was clear butt hurt by the perceived slight which says more about him than Jeannie anyways.
5. It's a stupid list. |
1. Like everyone else. Difference is if you are the owner of the lakers, or the POTUS or a politician or anything like that, you should reflect better before voicing your opinion.
2. I agree, and that was my stupid post in a stupid thread about thar stupid list.
3. Kobe has nothing to do with this, as it doesn't what jerry is doing now for the clippers after he proposed to work for us and was turned down.
4. See n.2 and first sentence in n. 1.
5. See n.2 |
So because Jeanie said something you didnt like or agree with it's a sign the she didn't reflect enough? Come on bruh...
She didn't say anything to hurt anyone's feeling...she gave her opinion on something that is insignificant. ALL people should practice reflection before they speak or type...that she's the head of the Lakers makes no difference and her list shows she did reflect.
You just disagree and that's ok too...but if you're going to be offended because West is offended then that's a choice YOU make and not something Jeanie has to suppress her freedom to cater to.
I'm so tired of this in our country...it's ok to disagree about things and still respect each other's right to see the world differently.
I can simultaneously love West for what he did as a Laker and also be miffed at him for trashing the Lakers...same goes for Magic...the difference for me is that Magic is still loveable while West is still bitter.
And I can disagree with Jeanie and still support her right to her own top 5 for her own reasons especially since she knows each of the people WAY better than I ever will.
Let me be clear...Jeanie owes you NOTHING...if she says something that you dont like that's between you and you alone unless she's was directly talking ish to you.
When you spend less energy trying to control everyone and more time being responsible for you...the world becomes a pretty amazing place to live. Peace brethern... on to 18!
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hydrohead
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| Posted: Mon May 17, 2021 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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Doc Buss
Chick
Elgin (saved the franchise)
Magic
Kobe
Sorry Jerry, you bitter old logo.
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LakerDynasty6.0
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Joined: 12 Jan 2009
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| Posted: Mon May 17, 2021 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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I say "Not being able to agree on Top 5 all time for the Lakers franchise" is a great problem to have!
You ask Jeanie (or Jerry for that matter) that same question 5 times, you'll likely get 5 different answers.. Heck who knows, ten years from now all the fans would be clamoring for Klutch being in the top 5  .
Peace!
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activeverb
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| Posted: Mon May 17, 2021 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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| CervantesRises wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | To me, the five most important Lakers in terms of overall impact to the organization:
Jerry West
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Magic Johnson
Shaquille O'Neal
Kobe Bryant
...
Lots of people tough to leave out ... my next 5 would be:
George Mikan
Elgin Baylor
Pat Riley
Phil Jackson
Lebron James |
I'm amazed at how often Chick gets ignored...Chick sold the team to tens of millions of fans for 33 years...that's kind of important. |
Well, put together your list with Chick, and we'll see who you leave out. |
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kikanga
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Location: La La Land
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| Posted: Mon May 17, 2021 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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| hydrohead wrote: | Doc Buss
Chick
Elgin (saved the franchise)
Magic
Kobe
Sorry Jerry, you bitter old logo. |
The bolded are locks.
It's the 5th one that is difficult.
Lebron is not a contender.
I guess I'd go with Kareem. Sure Magic got alot of media spotlight.
But Kareem played here for 15 years. Brought us 5 chips. Played till he was 41 ... for us. And even with those late years dragging his averages down. He still averaged 22 points, 9.5 rebounds, 2.5 blocks over a decade and a half.
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Dr. Laker
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| Posted: Mon May 17, 2021 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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Top 5 Players, regardless of position:
Magic
Kobe
Kareem
Shaq
Lebron
Top 5 Players by position:
PG - Magic
SG - Kobe
SF - Baylor
PF - Gasol
C - Kareem
Top 5 position Players by talent:
PG - Magic
SG - Kobe
SF - LeBron
PF - Gasol
C - Kareem
Top 5 iconic players
PG - Magic
SG - West
SF - Worthy
PF - Baylor
C - Mikan
Top 5 Coaches
Phil Jackson
John Kundla
Pat Riley
Bill Sharman
Paul Westhead
Top 5 GMs (by champion likely HOF acquired)
Bill Sharman (Magic, Nixon, Wilkes, Worthy, McAdoo, Cooper)
Sid Hartman* (Mikan, Mikkelsen, Pollard, Lovellette, Martin)
Fred Schaus (West, Chamberlain, Goodrich)
Jerry West (Kobe, Shaq)
Rob Pelinka (LBJ, AD)
Top 5 GMs (by Championships led)
Sid Hartman* (47**, 49, 50, 52, 53, 54)
Mitch Kupchak (2001, 2002, 2009, 2010) (won two with West's core)
Jerry West (85, 87, 88, 2000) (won 3 with Sharman's core)
Bill Sharman (80, 82)
TIE Rob Pelinka/Fred Schaus (72/2020)
* Hartman was a Minneapolis Sportswriter who was the de facto GM.
Although co-owner Max Winter was the GM on the league roll, the team paid Hartmann to do the work.
** Lakers weren't in the NBA, but the league they were in (NBL) was the better league and the 1947 Lakers were regarded as the best team in the world.
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activeverb
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| Posted: Tue May 18, 2021 7:56 am Post subject: |
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| kwase wrote: | | CervantesRises wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | To me, the five most important Lakers in terms of overall impact to the organization:
Jerry West
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Magic Johnson
Shaquille O'Neal
Kobe Bryant
...
Lots of people tough to leave out ... my next 5 would be:
George Mikan
Elgin Baylor
Pat Riley
Phil Jackson
Lebron James |
I'm amazed at how often Chick gets ignored...Chick sold the team to tens of millions of fans for 33 years...that's kind of important.
Also...West gets a lot of credit as a GM but championships are won by players.
We dont get Magic...there is no West is a great GM talk and if that doesnt happen is he even there to pull off the miracle summer of 96?
Yes he got us Kobe and Shaq...and yes he hired Del Harris and stuck with him for failure after failure until Dr. Buss stepped in to keep Shaq happy and bring Phil out of retirement in Australia body surfing with Luc Longley.
To say West was more important that Phil is debatable. To say Phil was more important than West is debatable. West wasnt winning without Phil and Phil wasnt winning without Kobe and Shaq. And Kobe and Shaq aren't Lakers without West...so...
It's a stupid list...we can argue incessantly or appreciate how special it all is...I voted for being thankful I've seen 11 and counting...that's what matters. |
Let's be honest...when the Lakers first came to L.A. in 1960 they were not welcomed with open arms. The Dodgers and Rams were the big teams here, and the Lakers were a distant stepchild. Three people are responsible for turning it around...Jerry West, Elgin Baylor and Chick Hearn. Without them, along with Dr. Buss buying the team in 1979 we could easily be the clippers. |
Chick was a great announcer -- best play by play man I ever heard. I don't see Chick as being as instrumental to the Lakers fortunes as you do -- I don't buy the notion that replacing Chick without another announcer would have changed the Lakers success in the slightest. But Chick without question was a great announcer who provided me with a lot of entertainment for a lot of years. |
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1995Lakers
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Joined: 26 Aug 2020
Posts: 4409
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| Posted: Tue May 18, 2021 10:05 am Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | kwase wrote: | | CervantesRises wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | To me, the five most important Lakers in terms of overall impact to the organization:
Jerry West
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Magic Johnson
Shaquille O'Neal
Kobe Bryant
...
Lots of people tough to leave out ... my next 5 would be:
George Mikan
Elgin Baylor
Pat Riley
Phil Jackson
Lebron James |
I'm amazed at how often Chick gets ignored...Chick sold the team to tens of millions of fans for 33 years...that's kind of important.
Also...West gets a lot of credit as a GM but championships are won by players.
We dont get Magic...there is no West is a great GM talk and if that doesnt happen is he even there to pull off the miracle summer of 96?
Yes he got us Kobe and Shaq...and yes he hired Del Harris and stuck with him for failure after failure until Dr. Buss stepped in to keep Shaq happy and bring Phil out of retirement in Australia body surfing with Luc Longley.
To say West was more important that Phil is debatable. To say Phil was more important than West is debatable. West wasnt winning without Phil and Phil wasnt winning without Kobe and Shaq. And Kobe and Shaq aren't Lakers without West...so...
It's a stupid list...we can argue incessantly or appreciate how special it all is...I voted for being thankful I've seen 11 and counting...that's what matters. |
Let's be honest...when the Lakers first came to L.A. in 1960 they were not welcomed with open arms. The Dodgers and Rams were the big teams here, and the Lakers were a distant stepchild. Three people are responsible for turning it around...Jerry West, Elgin Baylor and Chick Hearn. Without them, along with Dr. Buss buying the team in 1979 we could easily be the clippers. |
Chick was a great announcer -- best play by play man I ever heard. I don't see Chick as being as instrumental to the Lakers fortunes as you do -- I don't buy the notion that replacing Chick without another announcer would have changed the Lakers success in the slightest. But Chick without question was a great announcer who provided me with a lot of entertainment for a lot of years. |
Stu Lantz over Chick....for his 2 seasons of averaging 9.3 and 4.7 ppg for the Lakers. Who would have guessed Stu once averaged over 20 ppg for a 0.500 club. Lantz was a baller before he was a grumpy person with cliched lines. |
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1995Lakers
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Posts: 4409
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| Posted: Tue May 18, 2021 10:17 am Post subject: |
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| I remember someone on here posted that Jeanie Buss's least favorite Laker was Nick Van Exel because Quick was once rude to her. That tells me all I need to know about Jeanie Buss. Van Exel was better in clutch situations than any Laker I have ever seen surpassing Magic, Kobe, Fisher and Horry. Why Kobe was even allowed to shoot those 4 airballs when Nick was on the team still baffles me to this day when Nick was actually having a good series vs the Jazz in 1997. You know you are something special in big moments when Kenny Smith calls you as one of the great clutch players and your talent is really that of a borderline all-star. |
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activeverb
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Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Tue May 18, 2021 11:28 am Post subject: |
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| 1995Lakers wrote: | | I remember someone on here posted that Jeanie Buss's least favorite Laker was Nick Van Exel because Quick was once rude to her. That tells me all I need to know about Jeanie Buss. |
One post, the details of which you probably don't even remember much, by some anonymous person on LG tells you all you need to know about Jeanie Buss?
Hmm ... one might say that also tells us all we need to know about how you form your opinions |
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Halflife
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Joined: 15 Aug 2015
Posts: 16799
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| Posted: Tue May 18, 2021 11:35 am Post subject: |
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the question was most "important" not greatest iIRC
IMO the only 3 that should be on everyones list are
Doc Buss
Kobe
Magic
The final 2 spots are open. I say PJ is one because of how he came in and totally restructured our culture and obviously he had legends but both stints we were dominant.
I could see KAJ, West, Pat, maybe shaq, Wilt filling last hole. But everyone outside of magic and kobe have had far less impact for the brand outside of just the league. |
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scottpot29
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Posts: 2538
Location: OC
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| Posted: Tue May 18, 2021 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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"one of the most offensive things in all my life"......Jerry, you need to get out more.
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Kblo247!
Star Player
Joined: 05 Oct 2015
Posts: 3929
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| Posted: Tue May 18, 2021 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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| 1995Lakers wrote: | | I remember someone on here posted that Jeanie Buss's least favorite Laker was Nick Van Exel because Quick was once rude to her. That tells me all I need to know about Jeanie Buss. Van Exel was better in clutch situations than any Laker I have ever seen surpassing Magic, Kobe, Fisher and Horry. Why Kobe was even allowed to shoot those 4 airballs when Nick was on the team still baffles me to this day when Nick was actually having a good series vs the Jazz in 1997. You know you are something special in big moments when Kenny Smith calls you as one of the great clutch players and your talent is really that of a borderline all-star. |
The fact you remember Nick playing good should baffle you. He was Stockton’s bxxxx
In 97 he shot 24% from three vs the Jazz. He shot 41 from the field.
In 98 he shot 24% from the field, 21% from three, 56% on free throws, and averaged 9 points while planning his Cancun trip
Nick was as big a choker and loser as Eddie Jones was when it mattered. Stockton bent him over two years straight and he couldn’t make teams pay for doubling Shaq when it mattered. Fisher and Fox didn’t have their talent, but they had more heart, better defense, and actually hit shots when it mattered home or away |
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