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| Who should be the Laker starting PG next season and why? |
| Dennis Schröder |
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| Total Votes : 60 |
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Dr. Laker
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 Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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| BILBJH wrote: | | I'm one of the four who picked THT. |
#metoo
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BILBJH
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| Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Dr. Laker wrote: | | BILBJH wrote: | | I'm one of the four who picked THT. |
#metoo |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 5:32 am Post subject: |
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I think last night's game was sort of a good barometer of where we stand with our guards.
IMO with Dennis playing, we win this game by at least 10 points last night.
With Dennis/AC/THT playing we win this game by at least 15 points last night.
AC was having a difficult time with the perimeter pressure. He had a hard time setting up players and was hounded 3/4 court.
THT showed flashes of why I didn't want to trade him for a stud like Lowry, and also why he still needs more time before he's a consistent starter level player. I think next season he will be our main guard off the bench, 6MOY level player. He needs to be less hesitant to shoot as teams will simply wall off the paint against him as they game plan him more. But I have always been a THT believer. I just think he needs a little more seasoning. They were also picking on him on defense, but he's a baby so he'll get better under a defensive coach like Vogel.
My hope is we can return all 3 of them, but I think it's more likely we return Dennis/THT (and I think THT will return no matter what).
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Sina
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 6:00 am Post subject: |
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Starting backcourt: KCP + THT
Backup: Caruso + Schroder |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 6:45 am Post subject: |
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| Sina wrote: | Starting backcourt: KCP + THT
Backup: Caruso + Schroder |
I think if Dennis is re-signed, likely over 20m, he is not going to be coming off the bench.
I think it would be Dennis/KCP starting, but THT increasing his role/minutes (especially if AC doesn't return).
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 7:15 am Post subject: |
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I have nothing against THT. I hope some of you are right that he is growing into a star or at least a dependable contributor. Just the same, I've seen enough hyped kids over the years to think that some of you are getting way ahead of yourselves. At this point, he is shooting .274 from three and has a pretty poor ATO ratio for a PG (he's really a combo guard, not a natural PG). He has good games, he has bad games, and he has games that are some of each.
I'm not sure that he'll ever develop into a starting quality player, or even whether he'll still be a Laker next year. The idea of him as a starting PG next year seems far fetched.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 7:17 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | I have nothing against THT. I hope some of you are right that he is growing into a star or at least a dependable contributor. Just the same, I've seen enough hyped kids over the years to think that some of you are getting way ahead of yourselves. At this point, he is shooting .274 from three and has a pretty poor ATO ratio for a PG (he's really a combo guard, not a natural PG). He has good games, he has bad games, and he has games that are some of each.
I'm not sure that he'll ever develop into a starting quality player, or even whether he'll still be a Laker next year. The idea of him as a starting PG next year seems far fetched. |
Yeah, that's reasonable. He will need to make jumps in terms of his 3 point shooting, ATO, decision making, and most importantly for me, defense. Knicks went right at him with Rose all night long. I've noticed teams are hunting him out on defense a lot more now.
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RI Laker
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 7:29 am Post subject: |
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| Dennis is lightyears ahead of AC and THT. Don't get me wrong, I love AC and THT. They just don't take care of the rock, have minimal impact in terms of being table setters, and have a hard time breaking down a D. AC is a defensive maestro (as is DS). THT does nothing on that end of the floor. |
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_#1_
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 8:03 am Post subject: |
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| One thing is for sure. If DS stays he starts at those prices. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 8:09 am Post subject: |
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| RI Laker wrote: | | Dennis is lightyears ahead of AC and THT. Don't get me wrong, I love AC and THT. They just don't take care of the rock, have minimal impact in terms of being table setters, and have a hard time breaking down a D. AC is a defensive maestro (as is DS). THT does nothing on that end of the floor. |
I think Dennis is close to reaching what his peak will be (and then sustaining it for a few years).
I think AC sort of is too. I don't think you'll see major leaps in terms of ball handling, ability to attack the rim, etc. What he can hopefully continue to improve is his C&S 3s. That is something that has really helped him this year. His defense remains awesome and I don't think he will drop off at all.
THT is showing lots of flashes for sure. But he has a long way to go to be a consistent starting level guard. Thankfully, he's only 20, and will likely benefit from having LBJ/Dennis do most of that, and he can grow off the bench and improve on his 3s, decision making, and defense in the next few years.
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ThePageDude
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Joined: 25 Jul 2002
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 8:20 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | I have nothing against THT. I hope some of you are right that he is growing into a star or at least a dependable contributor. Just the same, I've seen enough hyped kids over the years to think that some of you are getting way ahead of yourselves. At this point, he is shooting .274 from three and has a pretty poor ATO ratio for a PG (he's really a combo guard, not a natural PG). He has good games, he has bad games, and he has games that are some of each.
I'm not sure that he'll ever develop into a starting quality player, or even whether he'll still be a Laker next year. The idea of him as a starting PG next year seems far fetched. |
Yeah, that's reasonable. He will need to make jumps in terms of his 3 point shooting, ATO, decision making, and most importantly for me, defense. Knicks went right at him with Rose all night long. I've noticed teams are hunting him out on defense a lot more now. |
What he has right now is rare. (elite dribble penetration and finish)
Much of what he doesn't have is developmental and less rare e.g. shooting
Some of what he doesn't have remains to be seen whether he can/will develop e.g. midrange game, decision making/vision, better overall defense |
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governator
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 8:23 am Post subject: |
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| Yooo lol, how is the answer not DS, the best PG not name Bron we have on the team. Let THT climb to a consistent 6th man status/back up PG then we’ll see the season after |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 8:33 am Post subject: |
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| ThePageDude wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | I have nothing against THT. I hope some of you are right that he is growing into a star or at least a dependable contributor. Just the same, I've seen enough hyped kids over the years to think that some of you are getting way ahead of yourselves. At this point, he is shooting .274 from three and has a pretty poor ATO ratio for a PG (he's really a combo guard, not a natural PG). He has good games, he has bad games, and he has games that are some of each.
I'm not sure that he'll ever develop into a starting quality player, or even whether he'll still be a Laker next year. The idea of him as a starting PG next year seems far fetched. |
Yeah, that's reasonable. He will need to make jumps in terms of his 3 point shooting, ATO, decision making, and most importantly for me, defense. Knicks went right at him with Rose all night long. I've noticed teams are hunting him out on defense a lot more now. |
What he has right now is rare. (elite dribble penetration and finish)
Much of what he doesn't have is developmental and less rare e.g. shooting
Some of what he doesn't have remains to be seen whether he can/will develop e.g. midrange game, decision making/vision, better overall defense |
Agree. I've always recognized his clay. He is under good coaching (Handy for development, Vogel for defense). Looks like guys like AD/LBJ have taken the kid under their wings too. He's in good hands.
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 8:34 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | I think Dennis is close to reaching what his peak will be (and then sustaining it for a few years). |
You never know for sure until a player's career is done, but I think his career year was last year. As I've shown before, his numbers this year are almost identical to his career numbers on a 36 minute basis.
Here, I'll post the per-36 numbers again. I'm including his numbers from last year in OKC just to show how his numbers from last year do not match his numbers from this year or his career averages:
http://bkref.com/pi/shareit/71zO5
It is sort of creepy how close his per-36 numbers with the Lakers are to his career per-36 numbers. If he took a couple more shots per game, he might match the point total, too. In all likelihood, this is who he is. I suspect that we are the third fanbase that has gotten excited about him when he went on a hot streak or had a big game.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 8:41 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | I think Dennis is close to reaching what his peak will be (and then sustaining it for a few years). |
You never know for sure until a player's career is done, but I think his career year was last year. As I've shown before, his numbers this year are almost identical to his career numbers on a 36 minute basis.
Here, I'll post the per-36 numbers again. I'm including his numbers from last year in OKC just to show how his numbers from last year do not match his numbers from this year or his career averages:
http://bkref.com/pi/shareit/71zO5
It is sort of creepy how close his per-36 numbers with the Lakers are to his career per-36 numbers. If he took a couple more shots per game, he might match the point total, too. In all likelihood, this is who he is. I suspect that we are the third fanbase that has gotten excited about him when he went on a hot streak or had a big game. |
Yup. I don't expect a monster jump in his per 36 at all, especially b/c he had LBJ/AD theoretically on the team.
But you know my position on Dennis. It's the fact that if we let him walk for nothing, it's really tough to replace his contribution with a minimum deal or a split of the mini MLE (which will be needed to address other holes with guys leaving too).
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BILBJH
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Joined: 23 Jul 2020
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 9:03 am Post subject: |
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If LBJ was 25... Dennis would be fine in the same way Fisher was good enough to play with Kobe.
But LBJ's only going to keep going downhill and Dennis will likely be what he is right now.
At least THT has the hope of getting better. We all think of THT as inefficient and wild but his eFG is already better than Schroder. He needs to cut down on his turnovers but he should be fine other than that.
If THT were 27 years old and shooting like this... I find it hard to imagine we'd be signing him at 4 years/84 million... I get why we might need to sign Schroder... I just don't get why anyone is happy about it.
Fun fact... THT's eFG and assist turnover rate is better than Kobe's at 20 years old.
If we believed in him enough to pass on Lowry, maybe we should just throw him into the deep end and roll with him next season. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 9:14 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | I think Dennis is close to reaching what his peak will be (and then sustaining it for a few years). |
You never know for sure until a player's career is done, but I think his career year was last year. As I've shown before, his numbers this year are almost identical to his career numbers on a 36 minute basis.
Here, I'll post the per-36 numbers again. I'm including his numbers from last year in OKC just to show how his numbers from last year do not match his numbers from this year or his career averages:
http://bkref.com/pi/shareit/71zO5
It is sort of creepy how close his per-36 numbers with the Lakers are to his career per-36 numbers. If he took a couple more shots per game, he might match the point total, too. In all likelihood, this is who he is. I suspect that we are the third fanbase that has gotten excited about him when he went on a hot streak or had a big game. |
Yup. I don't expect a monster jump in his per 36 at all, especially b/c he had LBJ/AD theoretically on the team.
But you know my position on Dennis. It's the fact that if we let him walk for nothing, it's really tough to replace his contribution with a minimum deal or a split of the mini MLE (which will be needed to address other holes with guys leaving too). |
DS is almost 28 -- he's been a professional basketball player for 11 years, and been in the NBA for 8 years.
He is what he is -- capable, but in the bottom third of starting point guards in the NBA.
He'll get paid, because he's in a great position to be paid. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 9:40 am Post subject: |
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| BILBJH wrote: | If LBJ was 25... Dennis would be fine in the same way Fisher was good enough to play with Kobe.
But LBJ's only going to keep going downhill and Dennis will likely be what he is right now.
At least THT has the hope of getting better. We all think of THT as inefficient and wild but his eFG is already better than Schroder. He needs to cut down on his turnovers but he should be fine other than that.
If THT were 27 years old and shooting like this... I find it hard to imagine we'd be signing him at 4 years/84 million... I get why we might need to sign Schroder... I just don't get why anyone is happy about it.
Fun fact... THT's eFG and assist turnover rate is better than Kobe's at 20 years old.
If we believed in him enough to pass on Lowry, maybe we should just throw him into the deep end and roll with him next season. |
I've been one of the biggest advocates of keeping Dennis (or trading him to keep assets for him, which is why I was ok with KCP/Dennis for Lowry). But I don't know anyone who is "happy" about it, but it is more about being realistic about asset allocation. I don't think THT is ready to be a full time starter. His 3 point shooting and poor defense will leave him vulnerable once teams game plan him.
THT is 2 years away from being a starter. But he would be 22. People are too eager to rush him. Let him grow under the aegis of LBJ/AD, and Dennis is there to be a reliable 2 way contributor until THT is ready in a few years.
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BILBJH
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 9:45 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | BILBJH wrote: | If LBJ was 25... Dennis would be fine in the same way Fisher was good enough to play with Kobe.
But LBJ's only going to keep going downhill and Dennis will likely be what he is right now.
At least THT has the hope of getting better. We all think of THT as inefficient and wild but his eFG is already better than Schroder. He needs to cut down on his turnovers but he should be fine other than that.
If THT were 27 years old and shooting like this... I find it hard to imagine we'd be signing him at 4 years/84 million... I get why we might need to sign Schroder... I just don't get why anyone is happy about it.
Fun fact... THT's eFG and assist turnover rate is better than Kobe's at 20 years old.
If we believed in him enough to pass on Lowry, maybe we should just throw him into the deep end and roll with him next season. |
I've been one of the biggest advocates of keeping Dennis (or trading him to keep assets for him, which is why I was ok with KCP/Dennis for Lowry). But I don't know anyone who is "happy" about it, but it is more about being realistic about asset allocation. I don't think THT is ready to be a full time starter. His 3 point shooting and poor defense will leave him vulnerable once teams game plan him.
THT is 2 years away from being a starter. But he would be 22. People are too eager to rush him. Let him grow under the aegis of LBJ/AD, and Dennis is there to be a reliable 2 way contributor until THT is ready in a few years. |
Again you have made a convincing argument for your case... I'm just hoping Rob has one last trick up his sleeve.
Maybe happy is the wrong word... but I feel like people keep trying to sell me on him whenever he has a good game. It would be like claiming Kuzma is worth 21 million after he gets hot from three.
If people stopped trying to sell me on him like he's something he isn't... then I wouldn't go around trying to burst people's balloons
Your point about how we have no choice is a fair one. I'm just hoping Rob has found another path. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 9:49 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | Yup. I don't expect a monster jump in his per 36 at all, especially b/c he had LBJ/AD theoretically on the team.
But you know my position on Dennis. It's the fact that if we let him walk for nothing, it's really tough to replace his contribution with a minimum deal or a split of the mini MLE (which will be needed to address other holes with guys leaving too). |
Right, but I was responding to your comment that Schroder is close to reaching his peak. I think he's already past his peak. Maybe he'll prove me wrong. But sure, he has us over a barrel when it comes to contract negotiations.
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markjay
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 9:53 am Post subject: |
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| Ideally it should be Schroder. But, if he doesn’t re-sign, this team can do fine with AC and DS handling PG duties, assuming LeBron doesn’t have another major injury. |
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 9:57 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | I have nothing against THT. I hope some of you are right that he is growing into a star or at least a dependable contributor. Just the same, I've seen enough hyped kids over the years to think that some of you are getting way ahead of yourselves. At this point, he is shooting .274 from three and has a pretty poor ATO ratio for a PG (he's really a combo guard, not a natural PG). He has good games, he has bad games, and he has games that are some of each.
I'm not sure that he'll ever develop into a starting quality player, or even whether he'll still be a Laker next year. The idea of him as a starting PG next year seems far fetched. |
What were your thoughts on Julius Randle and Jordan Clarkson in 2015?
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 10:39 am Post subject: |
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| BILBJH wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | BILBJH wrote: | If LBJ was 25... Dennis would be fine in the same way Fisher was good enough to play with Kobe.
But LBJ's only going to keep going downhill and Dennis will likely be what he is right now.
At least THT has the hope of getting better. We all think of THT as inefficient and wild but his eFG is already better than Schroder. He needs to cut down on his turnovers but he should be fine other than that.
If THT were 27 years old and shooting like this... I find it hard to imagine we'd be signing him at 4 years/84 million... I get why we might need to sign Schroder... I just don't get why anyone is happy about it.
Fun fact... THT's eFG and assist turnover rate is better than Kobe's at 20 years old.
If we believed in him enough to pass on Lowry, maybe we should just throw him into the deep end and roll with him next season. |
I've been one of the biggest advocates of keeping Dennis (or trading him to keep assets for him, which is why I was ok with KCP/Dennis for Lowry). But I don't know anyone who is "happy" about it, but it is more about being realistic about asset allocation. I don't think THT is ready to be a full time starter. His 3 point shooting and poor defense will leave him vulnerable once teams game plan him.
THT is 2 years away from being a starter. But he would be 22. People are too eager to rush him. Let him grow under the aegis of LBJ/AD, and Dennis is there to be a reliable 2 way contributor until THT is ready in a few years. |
Again you have made a convincing argument for your case... I'm just hoping Rob has one last trick up his sleeve.
Maybe happy is the wrong word... but I feel like people keep trying to sell me on him whenever he has a good game. It would be like claiming Kuzma is worth 21 million after he gets hot from three.
If people stopped trying to sell me on him like he's something he isn't... then I wouldn't go around trying to burst people's balloons
Your point about how we have no choice is a fair one. I'm just hoping Rob has found another path. |
There really isn't much of another path, ergo why he offered the max extension to Dennis and when he refused, packaged him with KCP for Lowry.
Now, it's even less. Sign him or not. S&T is iffy, b/c we'd have to send out draft picks IMO to get that done, and there is limited value to a trade exception.
I think it's clear that Rob will try to keep Dennis as he traded Green/1st for him, and left himself with no realistic way to replace his contribution if he leaves. I don't personally think AC/THT could replace what Dennis brought.
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BlueNGold
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 10:57 am Post subject: |
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I'm going to go off book and pick Chris Paul 
He'll have to opt out, but his buddy LBJ is waiting... |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 11:15 am Post subject: |
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We'll see what are guards look like in the playoffs alongside LBJ. Cause lets be honest. LBJ will be our point come playoff time. If DS hits catch and shoot 3s and defends multiple positions well I could see him coming back.
If not. I could see us pursuing trades.
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