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Who should be the Laker starting PG next season and why? |
Dennis Schröder |
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55% |
[ 33 ] |
Alex Caruso |
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26% |
[ 16 ] |
Talen Horton Tucker |
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18% |
[ 11 ] |
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Total Votes : 60 |
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kikanga Retired Number
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29541 Location: La La Land
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Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 11:14 am Post subject: |
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activeverb wrote: | Let's cut to the bottom line:
Of course, we don’t have to pay DS whatever he wants. We can say no, and then see what the consequences are.
A sign-and-trade is possible. My point was that, with rare exception, teams usually don’t get much back from a sign-and-trade than a trade exception.
Is it theoretically possible that we could ship out DS for something good and be one of those rare exception?
Sure. It's theoretically possible.
If all you're saying is, "Well, anything's possible," cool. Just don't expect anyone to get excited about "Well, anything's possible" ideas. |
Person 1: "It's not possible".
Person 2: "It is possible".
Person 1: "Just don't expect anyone to get excited about 'well, anything's possible' ideas."
Person 2: "WTF?"
Jokes aside, if you don't like the word "possible". How about the word "realistic".
I mean were people saying all the other offseason S&Ts we've seen around the league recently were realistic before they happened? _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better” |
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activeverb Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 37470
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Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 11:40 am Post subject: |
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kikanga wrote: | activeverb wrote: | Let's cut to the bottom line:
Of course, we don’t have to pay DS whatever he wants. We can say no, and then see what the consequences are.
A sign-and-trade is possible. My point was that, with rare exception, teams usually don’t get much back from a sign-and-trade than a trade exception.
Is it theoretically possible that we could ship out DS for something good and be one of those rare exception?
Sure. It's theoretically possible.
If all you're saying is, "Well, anything's possible," cool. Just don't expect anyone to get excited about "Well, anything's possible" ideas. |
Person 1: "It's not possible".
Person 2: "It is possible".
Person 1: "Just don't expect anyone to get excited about 'well, anything's possible' ideas."
Person 2: "WTF?"
Jokes aside, if you don't like the word "possible". How about the word "realistic".
I mean were people saying all the other offseason S&Ts we've seen around the league recently were realistic before they happened? |
Fair enough.
Based on the events of the past year and before that, I do not believe it is realistic to think we will do a sign-and-trade for DS where we will get a return that would excite anyone on LG.
Even though sign-and-trades have increased of late, it's hard to imagine a team that would take DS at a high salary off our hands and give us an asset back that we'd actually want.
If it actually happens, great. I'm not holding my breath.
My prediction is that DS won't get the offers he's expecting/hoping for in free agency, and he'll sign back here for an amount close to what we previously offered that he turned down. There is a chance he will go to the Knicks, but I have trouble seeing them paying him that much more.
Last edited by activeverb on Thu May 13, 2021 2:15 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Runway8 Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Posts: 22882 Location: La Jolla, San Diego
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Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | I think it's pretty simple.
If the Lakers do bring Dennis back, it'll be at 20m+. They're not going to re-sign him to that deal for him to come off the bench.
If they aren't able to bring him back, then it gets interesting. I don't think THT is ready. And I'm not sure AC's body can hold up for a whole season + playoffs as a starting guard given his physical style of play. |
THT is dropping dimes in his sleep right now. He reminds of the type of very skilled player that would average over 10 assists a game if he had the greenlight under MDA. He's not ready completely, but you have to throw him in the fire if DS ain't coming back, and it could be a blessing in disguise if DS doesn't coming back. I want DS back, but just saying the alternative road is promising in my book. AC still needs to come off the bench. I'm still cloudy on our free agency. My understanding is that regardless of DS, it could still be an either/or situation with THT vs AC? If that's the case, bye bye AC. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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Runway8 wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | I think it's pretty simple.
If the Lakers do bring Dennis back, it'll be at 20m+. They're not going to re-sign him to that deal for him to come off the bench.
If they aren't able to bring him back, then it gets interesting. I don't think THT is ready. And I'm not sure AC's body can hold up for a whole season + playoffs as a starting guard given his physical style of play. |
THT is dropping dimes in his sleep right now. He reminds of the type of very skilled player that would average over 10 assists a game if he had the greenlight under MDA. He's not ready completely, but you have to throw him in the fire if DS ain't coming back, and it could be a blessing in disguise if DS doesn't coming back. I want DS back, but just saying the alternative road is promising in my book. AC still needs to come off the bench. I'm still cloudy on our free agency. My understanding is that regardless of DS, it could still be an either/or situation with THT vs AC? If that's the case, bye bye AC. |
Yeah, I'm 100% in favor of keeping THT no matter what happens. I've been that way for a while. But for me, it's about developing him correctly. It's one thing to dominate the GLeague Houston team, but going up nightly against starting level PGs, it's another thing. I don't think people appreciate the level of starting level PGs in today's NBA. I have high hopes for THT but I don't think he's ready yet to be a starter. But he can be, but until then, going back to OP, the ideal way is retaining Dennis. I think that is Rob/Lakers' vision right now. Follow the money. Follow how they traded for him.
If he walks, then yes, maybe THT will just have to learn by fire but to me, that isn't the most ideal pathway for him. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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hype Star Player
Joined: 19 Nov 2007 Posts: 4387 Location: Lake Nacimiento
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Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | Runway8 wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | I think it's pretty simple.
If the Lakers do bring Dennis back, it'll be at 20m+. They're not going to re-sign him to that deal for him to come off the bench.
If they aren't able to bring him back, then it gets interesting. I don't think THT is ready. And I'm not sure AC's body can hold up for a whole season + playoffs as a starting guard given his physical style of play. |
THT is dropping dimes in his sleep right now. He reminds of the type of very skilled player that would average over 10 assists a game if he had the greenlight under MDA. He's not ready completely, but you have to throw him in the fire if DS ain't coming back, and it could be a blessing in disguise if DS doesn't coming back. I want DS back, but just saying the alternative road is promising in my book. AC still needs to come off the bench. I'm still cloudy on our free agency. My understanding is that regardless of DS, it could still be an either/or situation with THT vs AC? If that's the case, bye bye AC. |
Yeah, I'm 100% in favor of keeping THT no matter what happens. I've been that way for a while. But for me, it's about developing him correctly. It's one thing to dominate the GLeague Houston team, but going up nightly against starting level PGs, it's another thing. I don't think people appreciate the level of starting level PGs in today's NBA. I have high hopes for THT but I don't think he's ready yet to be a starter. But he can be, but until then, going back to OP, the ideal way is retaining Dennis. I think that is Rob/Lakers' vision right now. Follow the money. Follow how they traded for him.
If he walks, then yes, maybe THT will just have to learn by fire but to me, that isn't the most ideal pathway for him. |
We saw him against a really good defensive team and he turned it over a ton the game before. He of course also showed glimpses of brilliance but if you have the opportunity to keep him on a somewhat short leash and force him into good habits along the way like Vogel has been able to do you go that route without thinking twice imo! I think he'd overall be fine offensively but he still has A LOT of work to do on the defensive side of things (he's also shown flashes here but no true consistency, just needs time more then anything though I believe) which is a vital part to have a big role with not only a defensive first Vogel coached team but it's very necessary in todays NBA if you want to win a Championship period. The NBA is loaded with elite level offensive guards as we all know.
I'm also in the camp where THT is of the highest priority though if we do have to start choosing. Like it's been said a million times, this off season is going to require some huge decisions and we obviously are going to lose multiple rotation players regardless. It will be very interesting to see how it all pans out in the end but i'm trying not to look too much into all that until this seasons over. |
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Hanging from Rafters Star Player
Joined: 31 Jul 2018 Posts: 4541
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Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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It feels somewhat like a traitor discussing the movement of current Lakers that I’m hoping contribute to a championship THIS year but I know it’s something that has to be thought about to plan for the future.
That being said I would like to see next year’s team as:
THT/AC
KCP/Matthews
LBJ/Kuzma
AD/Morris
AD2/Gasol
I voted DS should be the PG next year considering a reasonable price and retaining Drummond. I’m not optimistic that could happen. I believe we would be more competitive with — AD2 without DS than ... without—AD2 with DS.
And it not so much those who players but who we have to potentially replace their production/impact. |
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Aeneas Hunter Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005 Posts: 31763
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Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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Hanging from Rafters wrote: | I voted DS should be the PG next year considering a reasonable price and retaining Drummond. I’m not optimistic that could happen. I believe we would be more competitive with — AD2 without DS than ... without—AD2 with DS.
And it not so much those who players but who we have to potentially replace their production/impact. |
There isn't much linkage between Schroder and Drummond. The only way we keep Drummond is if he signs for way below market, or if the market turns out to be surprisingly weak for him. _________________ Internet Argument Resolved |
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easybreeze Star Player
Joined: 06 Jun 2005 Posts: 2381
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Posted: Sat May 15, 2021 10:37 am Post subject: |
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I wouldn't pay Schroder what he's asking. In a year or two. THT could be the third option making Schroder the 4th option.
He is not a top 20 NBA pg . |
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troy Star Player
Joined: 30 Jan 2013 Posts: 5051
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Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 5:40 am Post subject: |
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Come off season, there needs to be a serious discussion about who to keep and who to let go regarding the point guard position.
Dennis S has been playing up and down all season, while AC has been consistent. No, AC isn't the most skilled player, but he's consistent. AC reminds me alot of how Derek Fisher used to play next to Kobe. For some reason, even though Fish wasn't so skilled, he had a 'winning effect' on the Lakers. Same for AC. I don't get that with DS.
In addition, it seems that THT only get better, while DS has peaked. So, there's no way you let AC go (winning effect), and you don't let THT go (future all-star caliber).
Dennis S. is the odd guy out. Shaking shooter, turns the ball over too much, good defender, but doesn't bring the team together, doesn't provide any 'winning effect', and is greedy.
DS needs to go. |
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drae Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Nov 2018 Posts: 16145
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Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 5:46 am Post subject: |
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It probably won't be Caruso. It's not that he's a good player, it's that the starting point guard in the regular season will be bringing the ball up and initiating plays to give Lebron a bit of a rest in that area, reduce his workload on offense. Caruso isn't really that kind of player, he's defensive he's not a shot creator. I feel like it's either THT as starting point guard or someone cheap in the market because come play off time they're going to get benched |
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adkindo Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
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Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 6:10 am Post subject: |
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It depends on what the FO thinks that THT could become as a lead guard. Schroder is what he is....a replacement level starter and an above average bench player. We also will have a chance to pick up a guy in the draft this year.
If someone like Jared Butler could slip to the Lakers in the draft, I think he could be an excellent PG for a Lebron/AD team....very Derek Fisher like in what he brings to the table as a mature college player. If a player like Josh Giddey slips to the Lakers, then they will need a short term gap guy but expect Giddey to be a post Lebron PG. Another interesting guy in the draft would be Jaden Springer. Decent chances one of the 3 will be there when the Lakers pick.
The biggest mistake the Lakers could make is overpaying Schroder on a long term contract. He is not going to improve much and he is not a top level PG....so do not pay him like he is one. I personally do not think this team would win more games with Schroder @ PG next season compared to THT.
If I was the FO, I would be open to paying Schroder....or overpay him on a 2 year contract with a team option for the 3rd year.....or pay him his real value on a long term deal even giving him the flexibility of an option. All of this would only be a result of our lack of cap space to sign a quality FA. If neither of those options work for Schroder, I would move forward with THT, grab some veteran depth in free agency while targeting a PG in the draft. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 6:13 am Post subject: |
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adkindo wrote: | It depends on what the FO thinks that THT could become as a lead guard. Schroder is what he is....a replacement level starter and an above average bench player. We also will have a chance to pick up a guy in the draft this year.
If someone like Jared Butler could slip to the Lakers in the draft, I think he could be an excellent PG for a Lebron/AD team....very Derek Fisher like in what he brings to the table as a mature college player. If a player like Josh Giddey slips to the Lakers, then they will need a short term gap guy but expect Giddey to be a post Lebron PG. Another interesting guy in the draft would be Jaden Springer. Decent chances one of the 3 will be there when the Lakers pick.
The biggest mistake the Lakers could make is overpaying Schroder on a long term contract. He is not going to improve much and he is not a top level PG....so do not pay him like he is one. I personally do not think this team would win more games with Schroder @ PG next season compared to THT.
If I was the FO, I would be open to paying Schroder....or overpay him on a 2 year contract with a team option for the 3rd year.....or pay him his real value on a long term deal even giving him the flexibility of an option. All of this would only be a result of our lack of cap space to sign a quality FA. If neither of those options work for Schroder, I would move forward with THT, grab some veteran depth in free agency while targeting a PG in the draft. |
I wouldn't mind overpaying Dennis on a shorter deal too. But doubt he takes it.
I don't think THT is ready to be a full time starting PG. Vogel doesn't trust his defense (as seen last night). If Dennis leaves, it will likely be AC, which isn't bad, though I worry about how that will be wear and tear wise on AC if he has to play against starters on starter's minutes. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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danzag Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2013 Posts: 22424 Location: Brazil
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Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 6:14 am Post subject: |
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I'm not sold on THT starting yet. His defense is still bad and he can't hit a 3 pointer to save his life. |
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CRoost Star Player
Joined: 21 Mar 2017 Posts: 4818
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Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 7:58 am Post subject: |
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danzag wrote: | I'm not sold on THT starting yet. His defense is still bad and he can't hit a 3 pointer to save his life. |
Lol he is like 20. He already swished a winning 3 ball. I don’t think it matters anyway next season so we should give him that opportunity than overpaying Schroder in a long deal. I am more optimistic on his progress than making Schroder something he is not . |
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Baron Von Humongous Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015 Posts: 32979
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Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 8:07 am Post subject: |
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danzag wrote: | I'm not sold on THT starting yet. His defense is still bad and he can't hit a 3 pointer to save his life. |
"Not sold" on him at all or "not sold" on him being a starter by next season? _________________ Under New Management |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 8:14 am Post subject: |
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CRoost wrote: | danzag wrote: | I'm not sold on THT starting yet. His defense is still bad and he can't hit a 3 pointer to save his life. |
Lol he is like 20. He already swished a winning 3 ball. I don’t think it matters anyway next season so we should give him that opportunity than overpaying Schroder in a long deal. I am more optimistic on his progress than making Schroder something he is not . |
I think THT is on his way, but I do not expect him to be ready next season. He went from barely played (year 1) to key rotation (year 2). Next year it will be good to see him take up closer to a 6th man role, improve on his 3 ball and overall defense.
If Dennis leaves, I would start AC instead and let THT continue to develop. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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waterman40 Star Player
Joined: 17 Jun 2003 Posts: 6292 Location: Central Coast
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Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 8:45 am Post subject: |
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I think we will retain THT, even if he gets that third year poison pill deal. I think next season he can be a sixth man type of player and two seasons from now I think he will be ready to be a full time starter for us.
We will offer DS the best deal we can, if someone outside the Lakers has the money and wants to drop their big load of cash on him-- Knicks? Memphis? I don't know who has the money or the need for a max level money PG.
But if the Lakers pay the full rate for DS, I think that means AC is gone. Of course, it is possible AC doesn't generate a lot or interest or is willing to take say a 4 year $20 million dollar contract. But being that he can earn that full $9.8 million MLE, I think its more likely some team like Dallas, Bucks, etc. would be willing to pony up that kind of money for him. If we keeping Schroder at North of $20 million, and possibly paying MLE money to THT, there is not going to be enough cash from the Buss Family to pay AC also that full MLE.
If DS walks, then I think the Lakers will consider bringing AC back, even if it is at the steep price of a full MLE deal. _________________ LAKERS 2019-2020: NBA World Champions! |
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danzag Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2013 Posts: 22424 Location: Brazil
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Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 9:02 am Post subject: |
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Baron Von Humongous wrote: | danzag wrote: | I'm not sold on THT starting yet. His defense is still bad and he can't hit a 3 pointer to save his life. |
"Not sold" on him at all or "not sold" on him being a starter by next season? |
On him starting next season.
I love him, let's not get this wrong Kid sure got a bright future ahead. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Fri May 28, 2021 8:22 am Post subject: |
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Dennis is just a much more ready two way player than AC/THT (though I would love to keep both). Happy he is playing well in the playoffs. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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CRoost Star Player
Joined: 21 Mar 2017 Posts: 4818
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Posted: Fri May 28, 2021 8:59 am Post subject: |
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THT should start next year and hopefully Schroder will resign ( it meant we repeat) and comes off the bench. We will have more balance lineup especially if THT find his 3 ball. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Fri May 28, 2021 9:28 am Post subject: |
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CRoost wrote: | THT should start next year and hopefully Schroder will resign ( it meant we repeat) and comes off the bench. We will have more balance lineup especially if THT find his 3 ball. |
THT is a few years way from being a starting level guard. 3s and defense. That’s why he’s not even playing much in this playoffs. Vogel doesn’t fully trust him yet. Give him time. Patience with THT. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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