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Luminous8
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 6:16 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Good list. I just have a hard time with Green/Kuminga at 4/5 more or less.


I have Green high because I can at least see him becoming an all-star regularly and a top level scorer. His defense may end up good with added weight.

Kuminga I just don’t see what the fuss is all about. He’s got a little bit of open court playmaking but doesn’t really seem to thrive in this role in the half court, his scoring ability is RAW, he doesn’t have the motor I expected or had read about (at least what I’ve watched of him), and he doesn’t seem to WANT to be that hustle guy willing to kill the boards and lock down on d rather wanting to be an offensive stud.....which he isn’t. My last issue, every time I watch him, he looks significantly smaller than his listed 6’7” frame. Looks closer to 6’5” to me. And while I h see stand size plays a lot less of a significant issue these days, when you’re more than likely ALWAYS going to be a 3/4(maybe more of a 4/3), size will be a hinderance unless your a Draymond level anomaly.
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 7:27 am    Post subject:

^I disagree about Green. Reminds me more of Gerald Green with that burst/body control/ball handling combination, and the 3pt shot takes a bit to wind up, even to the point of just looking at some G-League tape and seeing his shot distracted after the gather.

His defensive issues go beyond the weight.

Kuminga, at least I understand, because he combines strength with NBA coordinated movements. Doesn't have the greatest touch so it doesn't have the best results, but I think Green's scoring ability is FAR more raw in terms of footwork/physicality than Kuminga.

But neither guy showed a ton defensively, locking it down, and just a whiff of short range passing ability outside of the scoring ability they were trying to showcase.

That's why I have issues with them being 4 and 5.
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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2021 9:32 am    Post subject:

Jaden Springer
Roko Prkacin
Tre Mann

Vrenz Bleijenburgh
Bones Hyland
Miles McBride

Rokas Jokubaitis
Chris Duarte
Kessler Edwards (higher risk)
Aaron Henry

Day'Ron Sharpe
Joel Ayayi
Trey Murphy


Charles Bassey
Neemias Queta

Sandro Mamukelashvili
Ron Harper Jr
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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2021 11:55 am    Post subject:

21 Isaiah Jackson—Jackson has great horizontal athleticism, pretty good vertical athleticism and excellent shotblocking ability—that’s what you need to be a defensive modern big in today’s NBA. He also plays for Kentucky, which is renowned for having players punch well above their weight. There’s some Nerlens Noel here, even down to the lanky frame—in fact, might be a spitting image. But he’ll be drafted at the right range without the “expectations” Noel faced.

22 Jones, Kai—Jones is a true unicorn—the dude is a potential matchup nightmare, a guy with perimeter skills in a 4’s body, and easily dunk contest hops on top of that. He can jump and slide laterally as well (good steal rate), has nascent handles, and is actually very tough despite his lanky frame. The guy hits an intersection of skills you just won’t find in every draft (or in the league at all). That, almost alone, is enough for many analytics types to take the plunge even in the late lottery. Kind of reminds of Stromile Swift. So why so low? I’m not as sure—while Texas is a breeding ground for bigs since 2016, they don’t play as much in the league, so I’m not as sure in the pedigree (it’s frankly the same with Bol Bol with Oregon, where Oregon generates prospects who don’t play as much in the league). On offense, he fashions himself a perimeter guy, but the jumper/gravity efficacy I think might be subpar in the league, and he’s not a passer. Will he maximize his potential on offense, or get muddled in it as some coach just doesn’t optimize him, and be tossed from team to team? On defense, surprisingly he doesn’t block shots, is very foul prone and his lack of weight really means he can’t corral d-boards (two problems fellow Longhorn Jaxson Hayes also has). So really I’m splitting the difference—he has potential to defend with high effort/toughness (will it be undermined by no boards and many fouls?) and he can really dunk and has a budding face-up game (but will it undermined by a poor jumper and no passing ability?). It will be an interesting case study with him.

23 Duarte, Chris—Danny Green just feels like an outright lazy comparison, but it might work—Duarte is an ace three point shooter with elite steals and even blocks out of the wing position without fouling. Like Green, older entering the draft, no boards, no assists, no foul drawing. The one difference might be the handles, but Duarte is not an active rim guy or passer so that might be neutralized in the league--but he might move his feet better than Green on defense. That 3+D is easily worth a pick here. One thing I’ll note - Duarte comes from Oregon, which has a reputation for underachieving prospects. One slight thought here.

24 Moody, Moses—This is probably the point in the draft where the upside decreases. I don’t really get the hype on Moody. His projected gravity in the league is OK, he’s got no court vision for a wing, and he isn’t very reflexive or athletic. His greatest asset is his toughness on the court—but this feels like Xavier Henry to me. His young age (18.8 at time of draft) is what props him up here.

25 Cooper, Sharife—If there were no such things as 3-pointers or defense, Cooper would be a lottery pick. The guy has yo-yo handles, insane court vision, and an absolute ability to bedazzle his defender, put them on their hips and draw fouls despite his diminutive frame. But he doesn’t have any real defensive reflexes or hops (things quite needed for his size), and his jumper might be at Ish Smith levels. He’s so good at the other things you might have to give him a chance, but like Kai Jones there’s some real bipolar aspects to his game that might make it hard for a coach to use him consistently.

26 Dosunmu, Ayo—Dosunmu might be more college player than NBA guy, he’s got NBA handles and vision, but none of the gravity, and his well preferred style—slashing—might be mitigated by a lack of hops and an inability to draw fouls. On defense he’s a bit of a non-entity, the lack of athleticism, reflexes, lack of some toughness as well. Upside is probably a bench guy.

27 Brown, Greg—Brown, like his teammate Kai Jones is a bit tantalizingly confusing. As a big, he’s got the outlines of a floor spacer, but way more volume than effective at this point, and he’s got excellent defensive rebounding chops. But he sorely lacks toughness (unlike his teammate Jones), has no real ball skills, isn’t really a shotblocker and is a hack on defense. And, that Texas pedigree—you wonder if has the fundamentals down, if at all. He could really use another year in school (frankly, like Jones, to round off the edges), but with everyone more incentivized to leave at age 19 nowadays if they are draftable, it is well too understandable from his point of view. But he can’t develop at the rate the ticking clock his drafted team imposes on him, or showcase niche skills on either end to latch onto, there’s definite bust potential. There aren’t too many synergistic qualities to his game.

28 Christopher, Josh—Proponents see shades of Kevin Porter Jr, who’s having a monster year at Houston, with the handles in combination with the hops (KPJ had much better handles and hops than Christopher, but Christopher is still very good in both). Christopher can easily flow on both ends in the NBA—he’s got NBA horizontal quickness and vertical hops, and that gives him quite a bit of upside others don’t necessarily have. So why so low? I’m not sure about Christopher’s jumper/gravity efficacy, he has no court vision, his toughness is questionable, and he was a hack on defense this past year. The outlines are there to be something, but on offense, is he mostly an off-ball/at-rim guy, and on defense, he really needs to get the fundamentals down pat.

29 Hyland, Nah'Shon—Bones is an absolute gravity guy on offense, but he drew so many Steph Curry comparisons I had to consider a late 1st round spot (Curry also didn’t really have the playmaking down—especially in his second year of college). Bones has the desire to launch threes like Steph, but not necessarily the jumper efficacy—which is more reasonable than good at this point. He also lacks ball skills (handles/passing), and you wonder if he has Steph’s work ethic to improve them (whether in the league or in college. This is year 2 of Hyland and Steph made huge gains in Davidson in his junior year. This is a different era, however, but if Hyland can be even a third as good as Curry, I’d still invest a first rounder. He’s docked a bit because he’s still early in his stage of development, and could probably use another year to flesh out those handles. On defense, his good defensive rebounding and reflexes showcase some instincts that might translate to override lack of strength. Scouts might overlook him because small guards with low weight classes are underindexed (Bones is 6’3” 165 lbs), but that’s the sort of thing that made detractors said about Curry as well. The argument that he’s a 6’3” SG might be true though, especially coming from VCU--where their best NBA guard is Troy Daniels. The league now has larger playmakers, and if Bones is a sparkplug scorer who can mix up a little on defense, this might be worth it.

30 Aaron Henry—Henry is being propped by his Michigan St bloodlines—guys like Miles Bridges and JJJ are fairly productive. Henry has two very useful things out of the wing position—he’s an excellent passer and interestingly, an excellent shotblocker. His calling card will likely be his defense—he’ll struggle against more athletic matchups, but he holds his own in many defensive categories and doesn’t really foul. On offense, that passing might be mitigated by his lack of range and ability to impinge the rim, as he’s very much a mid-range guy. But a defense-first guy with some offensive wrinkles and good bloodlines, he’s interesting at this stage.

31 Scotty Pippen Jr—Vanderbilt might not win basketball games recently, and Pippen was a 3-star prospect out of HS, but I’m surprised he’s not getting more looks on a purely statistical, NBA-translating basis. The guy ranked better than Saben Lee last year, and if we did an early 2020 redraft, we might have Saben in the top 20. Pippen Jr has a better floor game than Lee--better passer, a reasonable jumper (certainly better than Saben’s lack of range), and just good toughness with an ability to ball pressure. He’s a 1-position guy, and scouts always under-index for lack of size and weight (6’1” 170) and I think that’s the major deterrent. But small PGs with two-way potential are still better than anachronsitic low-post unathletic bigs, and I’m surprised the guy isn’t getting more hype, especially with that game and that Pippen bloodline.

32 Brandon Boston Jr—Kentucky bloodlines and all that, but Boston Jr has been one of the brickiest wing players out of the Big Blue for a while. Kentucky’s really good at punching above their weight for two types of prospects in the Calipari era--wings who can shoot, and athletic skilled bigs. Boston fits neither of that, so if he hits, he’ll be the first. There may be three--Hami Diallo, James Young, and Keldon Johnson--who are kinda similar to him, but Keldon shot quite better and is more athletic. Only Hami and James Young are similar in some sense, although Hami is more of a skinny smallball 4 in style. A lot of people like to compare him to Ingram, but he’s definitely more behind the 8-ball there, with vert, handles, range, toughness, etc. So all in all, you know - maybe bust? - but it also is Kentucky.

33 Ziaire Williams—Williams has an interesting intersection of hops, handles and OK? playmaking out of the big wing position. Handles are a huge predictor of upside--frankly on both ends of the court, and he looks like an interesting NBA player, which for evaluators is a huge part of the battle. Several things--he’s severely hindered by weight, not really attacking the basket and sorely lacking toughness, and his jumper efficacy is subpar. If this were 2008 or something, I’d say he needs another year to round out his defensive discipline (a little foul prone) and maybe improve his toughness, but every freshman is incentivized to make the jump, even in a COVID-season nowadays. Despite the fact that he glides and can jump, he doesn’t feel that reflexive either, so I wonder if he’s a tease. Stanford has only produced Tyrell Terry and KZ Okpala as prospects since 2016, so yeah...recent bloodlines, I’m not sure either. All that means I’m just lukewarm here--if you’re a potential “looks like a modern NBA player” type evaluator--you’d probably have Ziaire, Kai Jones and Vrenz Bleijenbergh higher than I have. Dig a little deeper though--possible debilitating weaknesses.

34 Day’Ron Sharpe—Sharpe is another interesting case study of a bipolar heatmap--he can really rebound on both ends of the court, and even move horizontally to some degree with sharp reflexes, and pass the rock. For a full-bodied big (6’11” 265) that’s an interesting intersection of skills. There’s grab and go potential here, and defensive aptitude to some degree--his short-range quickness in defense should project well. But he’s a dinosaur on personal offense, with range not past the painted area, with no hops or shotblocking to speak of. He’s an early 2nd rounder because it might feel a little situational on defense, while his passing skills might be mitigated if his personal offense projects to be broken--but he’s a really smart player on both ends who seems like he would maximize himself.

35 Vrenz Bleijenbergh—Bleijenbergh is like Pokusevski for a 4/3 hybrid - he has that same canvas of let’s jack up a lot of threes while showcasing top-notch passing for my size. Bleijenbergh also has quick hands on defense and doesn’t foul--the doesn’t foul part is important, because many young international draft prospects are absolute hacks, so this shows a level of discipline on that end that might aid in his transitioning to the NBA. It’s also important to note he’s doing this playing for the BBL, which has churned out reasonable German prospects in drafts past (Kleber, Theis, Schroder, etc), unlike Poku who played in very low-level competitions. But he isn’t as good as Poku--he shares Poku’s huge height/weight disparity which manifests itself in a severe lack of toughness, but Bleijenbergh doesn’t put a body on the d-glass either, and is a poor shotblocker. In many ways, he seems more like an oversized wing with guard skills. Both are bricksters from deep too, seemingly. The good thing is unlike Poku where they throw him in the fire to develop, with a 2nd round pick Bleijenbergh could develop more slowly and we can see where he’s at with his strengths; but I wonder if the toughness/rebounding issues will become problematic.

36 Julian Champagnie—Both the Champagnie brothers feel like excellent college players that will transition to role players at the next level. Julian I feel is the more interesting one, because Justin is a smallball 4 at the next level. Champagnie will likely be put into a simplistic 3-and-D wing role. More emphasis on the defense--he’s a power rebounder out of the wing position, an excellent shotblocker and stealer who doesn’t foul. On offense he’s not a committed three point shooter yet but has good jumper efficacy. Champagnie’s upside is limited because he sorely lacks ball skills and is just an average athlete (kind of like Danny Green, again), but he definitely has enough of a 3-and-D shade to fit into many NBA teams. Of note is St. John’s isn’t really a hotbed for NBA prospects--analytics friendly Shamorie Ponds the only one since 2016, and he didn’t even get a chance--but looking further back we do see JaKarr Sampson and Mo Harkless, athletic wing role players.

37 Daishen Nix—Nix is the Day’Ron Sharpe of tall PGs in some sense, another case of some elite attributes (especially by age) and then some debilitating weaknesses. Like Sharpe, he’s an absolute brickster and almost seemingly hopeless as a jumpshooter, and frankly, it’s probably even worse for a guard to be like this than it is a big. He’s also very unathletic and lacked toughness against the full-fledged adults that populated the G-League. That being said, he’s like a taller Sharife Cooper--he’s got these elite playground handles and court vision that just can’t be taught, and has a strong nose for dboards as well. I guess the question you have to ask is - can Andre Miller succeed in today’s league? Many scouts would say no, the league is constantly evolving and a guy like players would play off Miller and mitigate his passing. And Nix’s lack of athleticism would hinder him on defense as well. The lack of jumper might hinder his starter upside, but I think he’s smart enough to make it work at least as a bench player--he’s got a unique confluence of skills that I think he can make work.

38 Charles Bassey—If this were 2007 or 2008, Bassey would likely be a lottery pick. He does everything well that you would ask for bigs of that era - elite in dunking, rebounding, shotblocking, doesn’t foul. There’s a lot of juice to his game, and on top of that he even projects as an OK jumpshooter for a big--although he needs everything created for him, and doesn’t create back. But where Bassey lacks is the horizontal quickness--he seems a little rigid between lack of handles and steals, and projects to suffer guarding the perimeter. Today’s bigs can succeed if they are athletes without a jumper, like Daniel Gafford and Robert Williams, but those guys can really drop their hips and slide their feet on defense. Bassey isn’t of that mold, and might be played off the court against the floor spacing lineups of today. One wonders if he’s the sort of guy who can play and still up big numbers in today’s league, but not make a good impact, and be played off the court (ie Hassan Whiteside isn’t really a terrible comparison here, especially since both played in a small school and lack ball skills). But, this is 2nd round, and I think he can put up numbers in the league, and few can do what he does especially in college.

39 Joel Ayayi-- Ayayi is another bipolar heatmap type of player. He’s an excellent ballhandler and secondary passer out of the wing position, for a team that is one of the best at churning out NBA prospects no less--so these things should be NBA caliber, for sure. And he can get to the rim (at least at the college level). He plays a tough-nosed style of game, between the ability to seek the rim and rebound on both ends, and should have the horizontal quickness (and toughness) to defend reasonably well at the next level. I think a lot of scouts can’t reconcile parts of his game with NBA translation - at 6’5” 180 lbs, with very poor ups and an inability to draw contact, the slashing might be mitigated at the next level. His jumper was better last year and this year was somewhat subpar - but either way, he’s probably just average here. Still, good Gonzaga bloodlines obviously, and he has some intangibles, versatility, and toughness to make it all work.

40 Santi Aldama - Aldama, a 6’11” 215 lb Spaniard is a 4/3, who has shades of some unicorn-ish ability but perhaps some debilitating weaknesses to also undercut it. At 6’11”, he has slight handles, vision, and shooting range, but none of them are at that elite level, and he plays for a school that has never produced NBA prospects. On defense, against poor competition he’s an excellent defensive rebounder and shotblocker, and does it without fouling. That said, he lacks toughness, a fact exacerbated by his lack of weight, and also hops; between those two he’ll likely be exploited at the NBA level. I’m not sure if he can really impact the game on either end, but he has some interesting qualities worth taking a flyer here.
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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2021 2:16 pm    Post subject:

21 Isaiah Jackson— I don't get the hype on vertical bigs that lack perimetere game.

22 Jones, Kai—Absolute unicorn that shows PG movement skills and all the ancillary stuff, but without the scoring aggression and motor to back it up. I have him around here too, but reluctant still.

23 Duarte, Chris—Disagree about Danny Green comparison here. Green was a defensive wing that added a 3 at SAS and got the fundamentals through their training. Duarte, did a ton of shot creating for Oregon, has fine vision, but was a ball stopper at Oregon, likely because he was the #1 option. Still an outlier year shootingwise across the board despite that.

24 Moody, Moses—I have him lottery because he's a 3 level shooter that hits contested shots, has the requisite size at wing, and the optimistic path is Khris Middleton. Shooting gravity + diversity with adequate defensive ability at the NBA level is a killer.

25 Cooper, Sharife—I like him a lot, just not a Laker. Just a different version of Rondo (for now) without the outlier quicks/wingspan/touch

26 Dosunmu, Ayo--Not a fan.

27 Brown, Greg—Not a fan.

28 Christopher, Josh—KPJ with Nick Young shooting selection, is Nick Young. Despite all of athletic tools/size combination, just takes annoyingly difficult shots. Nick Young had this problem too and never shook out of it in the L.

29 Hyland, Nah'Shon—The closest to Jamal Crawford, but the weight of a HS freshman.

30 Aaron Henry—Modern Stacey Augmon that unfortunately can't draw the shooting gravity.

31 Scotty Pippen Jr—Not a fan.

32 Brandon Boston Jr—Not a fan.

33 Ziaire Williams—Smaller Ingram with the defensive metrics and confidence in pull up shooting without the touch.

34 Day’Ron Sharpe—I think he's underrated because the archetype is considered a dinosaur in today's game, yet teams like GSW, Brooklyn, and other teams with legit stars, absolutely need him.

35 Vrenz Bleijenbergh—Disagree about the Poku comparison. Poku was trying things on the court like HS kids would do to junior high kids in scrimmage games. Outlier vision/dexterity with shooting guard perimeter level movement. Bleijenburgh isn't any of that.

He's a big wing with guard skills as you've pointed out. That's EXACTLY why I have him as my personal top pick for LAL. Those are the types of guys that excel in the league.

36 Julian Champagnie—Not a fan.

37 Daishen Nix—Not a fan too much of a project.

38 Charles Bassey—Disagree he's a lottery pick in any era. Always felt his vertical ability was overrated and he excels at the "dinosaur" moves that the NBA is going away from.

39 Joel Ayayi-- Big fan, but only if LAL trades down. Low USG off ball guard with shooting chops and poise.

40 Santi Aldama - I don't believe in his game until he works on weaknesses.
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 10:12 am    Post subject: And with the 22nd pick of the 2021 NBA draft, the Lakers select________?

Sources: 2021 NBA Draft Tiebreakers:

4: Oklahoma City over Cleveland
8: Chicago, then Sacramento, then New Orleans
11. Charlotte over San Antonio
19. New York over Atlanta
21. Dallas
22. Lakers
25. Clippers
26. Denver

https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1397251277059416068?s=19
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 10:22 am    Post subject:

List is still the same.

I'll start with lottery and drop down since there's no real consensus on picks. No particular order.

Jaden Springer
Roko Prkacin
Tre Mann

Vrenz Bleijenburgh
Bones Hyland
Miles McBride

Rokas Jokubaitis
Chris Duarte
Kessler Edwards
Aaron Henry
__________
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 11:26 am    Post subject:

Lakers scouting department >>>

We getting a good player at 22. Gonna go YouTube the players Mike posted. Be right back...
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 2:33 pm    Post subject:

Cooper's undersized/not a leaper and his finishing was just okay, but I think the frequency with which he got to the rim/line was special for his size. There's more of a natural scorer in him than in Rondo, though obviously pre-ACL tear Rondo was a terror on defense for a small guard - Sharife will be bad on D, it's just a question of how bad. I see a fully actualized Sharife as more I.T. with passing chops. The flameout rate for small guards is so high, though, and if they don't really hit there's not much residual value to having them on your roster.
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 5:03 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Cooper's undersized/not a leaper and his finishing was just okay, but I think the frequency with which he got to the rim/line was special for his size. There's more of a natural scorer in him than in Rondo, though obviously pre-ACL tear Rondo was a terror on defense for a small guard - Sharife will be bad on D, it's just a question of how bad. I see a fully actualized Sharife as more I.T. with passing chops. The flameout rate for small guards is so high, though, and if they don't really hit there's not much residual value to having them on your roster.


You mentioned part of the Rondo aspect that I was alluding to; getting his feet in the paint. On top of that, the timing/quickness for how he reads lob plays is elite. Dude needs all the vertical threats.

What concerns me is the biomechanics that affect his shooting, possibly a floater game, let alone the current physical tools that make it tough to finish in the paint. That's why I have other guards listed (like McBride/Hyland), who may not have the elite ability to get in the paint at will, but at least a higher FTr (from memory), and WAY better pull up jumper rates with accuracy + the ability to defend. Those ancillary skills are too critical at the guard spot nowadays.
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 5:52 pm    Post subject:

^ Sharife is on another planet at getting to the FT line.

Cooper

FTr.: 0.560
FTA/40: 10.4
FTA/100 poss.: 14.1

Hyland (So)

FTr.: 0.321
FTA/40: 5.7
FTA/100 poss.: 8.4

McBride (So)

FTr.: 0.338
FTA/40: 5.0
FTA/100 poss.: 7.6


For comparison

Harden (So)

FTr.: 0.597
FTA/40: 8.6
FTA/100 poss.: N/A

Trae Young

FTr.: 0.443
FTA/40: 9.7
FTA/100 poss.: 12.6

If nothing else, Cooper is an elite foul drawer who hits 82.5% of his freebies.
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 6:02 pm    Post subject:

^Appreciate the clarity. I should have amplified the idea that I think Hyland/McBride may have the higher FTr next level because their best offensive aspect is the pull up jumper as a legitimate threat, especially with Hyland comfortably shooting from Curry distances off the dribble despite the slight frame (EXCELLENT energy transfer stuff from a shooting standpoint) and McBride

Cooper has a great way of drawing contact on the floor prior to the up. I had forgotten that was another big reason why I like him as well.

But yes, this conflicts with the idea of not drafting backup PGs (since they tend to be a dime a dozen) and extracting more value out of another position.

Springer is an obvious pick for me. Cooper, otoh, I'd want to make sure the development plan is in place, even if he's excessively ball dominant (33%+USG) and plays for Auburn, which absolutely has NBA level shot selection and usually has 1-2 big vertical threats and 1-2 3/D types to resemble NBA spacing.

Miles McBride seems like the "safest pick" here considering he's basically at an NBA level body, even if I think he's the best defender of the 3, but Sharife has elite abilities as a playmaker even if the ancillary stuff hasn't complemented him well yet, and Hyland is basically Jamal Crawford, just 25lbs lighter, all over again. That PUJ is no joke.
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Shaolin's Finest
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 10:23 pm    Post subject:

Hey Mike, just curious, I see Jared Butler from Baylor mocked around pick 22. I don't see him from your list so I assume your not a big fan? I personally don't know much about ranking prospects, but thought he played well in the tourney. Could be a good guy to have off the bench?
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 10:56 pm    Post subject:

Shaolin's Finest wrote:
Hey Mike, just curious, I see Jared Butler from Baylor mocked around pick 22. I don't see him from your list so I assume your not a big fan? I personally don't know much about ranking prospects, but thought he played well in the tourney. Could be a good guy to have off the bench?


Mixed feelings but more optimistic about other players. He has the handle with shake, but doesn't use that handle efficiently to create space. Tougher shots than necessary, and mostly played 2 next to Davion Mitchell.

Wouldn't expect any rookie drafted to make any minutes on the main roster anytime soon.
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 11:09 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
^Appreciate the clarity. I should have amplified the idea that I think Hyland/McBride may have the higher FTr next level because their best offensive aspect is the pull up jumper as a legitimate threat, especially with Hyland comfortably shooting from Curry distances off the dribble despite the slight frame (EXCELLENT energy transfer stuff from a shooting standpoint) and McBride

Cooper has a great way of drawing contact on the floor prior to the up. I had forgotten that was another big reason why I like him as well.

But yes, this conflicts with the idea of not drafting backup PGs (since they tend to be a dime a dozen) and extracting more value out of another position.

Springer is an obvious pick for me. Cooper, otoh, I'd want to make sure the development plan is in place, even if he's excessively ball dominant (33%+USG) and plays for Auburn, which absolutely has NBA level shot selection and usually has 1-2 big vertical threats and 1-2 3/D types to resemble NBA spacing.

Miles McBride seems like the "safest pick" here considering he's basically at an NBA level body, even if I think he's the best defender of the 3, but Sharife has elite abilities as a playmaker even if the ancillary stuff hasn't complemented him well yet, and Hyland is basically Jamal Crawford, just 25lbs lighter, all over again. That PUJ is no joke.


Not going to lie and act like I watched a ton of Hyland. How does he compare to Tyrell Terry from last years draft who I vaguely remember someone here was giving mild Curry comps to, who admittedly I also didn’t watch a ton of prior to him coming out last year.
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 11:11 pm    Post subject:

Athleticism. Shake/handle. Shot diversity on ball.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHWnO1sZyDc


I was not a Tyrell Terry fan.
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PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2021 12:11 am    Post subject:

I just looked at Moses Moody and he checks many marks for me:

- Wing player (desperate need)
- 6'6, 7'1 wingspan
- Really good shooter (36% from deep, 81% FT. Good indicator of his shooting in the NBA)
- He's not even 19 yet (at the time of this post, that's 5 days from now lol)
- good defensive potential with his size and athleticism
- Amazing name!

I would be incredibly estactic if we are able to draft this kid.
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PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2021 12:53 am    Post subject:

^I have him Top 5.
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PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2021 6:22 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
^I have him Top 5.


What are the chances you think he falls to us at 22?
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PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2021 9:59 am    Post subject:

Megaton wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
^I have him Top 5.


What are the chances you think he falls to us at 22?


Absolutely zero unless there's a medical red flag on his knee/knees.
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PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2021 12:19 pm    Post subject:

I do wonder if FO will prioritize a high-usage guy; Vogel's a defensive whiz but with slow pace and unimaginative get-the-shotclock-down-to-5 sort of offense, and scores routinely in the 90s, whether they think there's greater bang-for-the-buck getting a creator in this draft. I'm guessing if we do want this archetype we'd want a more established one out of free agency, since rookies don't make that sort of impact especially in year 1. That's why I'm leaving Bouknight (if he falls) and Sharife Cooper off this list - those guys can get their own, but we probably don't want to tilt at that angle - and I'm not sure if they can shoot, and they'd taketh away by cramping our spacing even more. But, it might be nice to develop another get-your-shot sort of guy homegrown.

That leads me to wonder--hey, we need a guy to take pressure off LeBron/AD with handles, and a guy who can really really shoot to keep it honest for those guys--isn't Tre Mann the perfect fit? The guy is one of the elite handlers of this class and was a world-class shooter this year (considering most of his shots were off the dribble). Having looked at drafts since 2011, it's rare to see that sort of heatmap out of guys who aren't immediately projected lottery picks--his lack of passing for a guard is holding back some of his stock. He offers a side dish of rebounding and some steals as well, and made a big jump (height+game) from college year 1 to 2. There might be more upside here. He can get his own when AD/LeBron/Schroder? are off the court, and space the floor ably when they are in the game.

I'm a fan of Jared Butler (ranked well analytically last season and also this season), and he's the ultimate secondary shooter/passer and gets a lot of steals (and even blocks!) for a 6'3" who doesn't really play athletically. And he won't need to for our team--he can play next to Bron in our lineups with a big playmaker, and can bring good floor spacing to any of our lineups with what I think can be good guard perimeter D. He's a ready-to-play guy without the daring upside, but for our roster that might be what we want.

Chris Duarte is way older but also might be ready to play with the gravity/shooting, and will disrupt with stocks and good horizontal quickness, but like Franz Wagner for smaller wings he'll struggle in toughness matchups. But he can grease the wheels for us on both ends. I prefer Wagner due to the youth factor though, and he brings a layer of passing I'm not sure Duarte has, even if Duarte's gravity is more defined. I also wonder if the FO might be more tantalized by the upside options that might available, which is why he's lower in the interest list. There's also something about Duarte's impact numbers where the sum might be less than its parts, and I'm taking that into consideration here too (and the Oregon bloodlines)

-----------------------------------

The next archetype we might consider are glue guys- I'd think we want a taller 3-and-D wing who can play within our schemes - Kuzma's got the D but not exactly the 3, and while Marc and Markieff can shoot threes Marc's not a natural at it, and Markieff is somewhat average D on it.

Let's get Mo's younger bro Franz if he falls here--have him much higher than the consensus. Let's not mince words here--the guy really excels at team defense and can move horizontally, and if he somehow falls to 22, we'd have a good tall wing defender. And he's got shades of shooting/passing on O, and can fit our team ethos. He's not very tough and might struggle in such matchups but we can cover for that. He's not really a gravity guy but I expect him to be forced to take more from there. I see a lot of mocks putting him at around 17th-18th so I expect him to be gone, but just putting this out there in the event he does drop further

I like Roko Prkacin, but not sure if the 3 is entirely there--he might top out as a 3-point chucker who ends up shooting 33% at the upshot, like Jae Crowder or Matt Barnes. But he's a modern big who can rebound, pass somewhat, has good horizontal reflexes and is very young. No one's really talking about him but if he's available (as many expect) it's worth a consideration. I think we go for something more definitive though.

JT Thor is tantalizing as an upside dunk/three/horizontal reflex unicorn as well, but not sure if he's going back to school. He's a BPA type guy, but there can be a fit on our roster (or any roster really - just depends if we want more immediacy in shooting/toughness than what he'll bring year 1)

------------------------------------------

A feisty defense-first guard would also work - we have Schroder (for now?), but THT despite the wingspan and early Kawhi on-ball stripping has been one of our weaker links. We don't really need defense after being #1 in defense for like 95%+ of the season, but it's always great to keep the good times coming.

Jaden Springer is a popular pick in the 20s--analytics would rank him probably 10-12 or thereabouts. I know scouts are leery of drafting a perceived bully-ball guard without handles or much passing, but the defense and toughness by very young age is great. Even if he's a one-way guy, there's real upside here (I think he can at least be a good mid-range in sort of guy).

If Davion Mitchell lasts here (which I doubt), he'd fit well--LeBron gets reunited with a Mario Chalmers facsimile, a pressure guard with some shooting and shades of slashing/passing as well.

----------------------------------------------

Probably unlikely:
Non-spacing bigs or at-rim bigs or need-to-develop bigs. I also like Alperen Sengun a lot more than the consensus, but probably not for us; we don't need bigs like that. Usman Garuba may or may not be the next Anunoby but we'll probably need more spacing than what he offers (probably will be gone). Kai Jones is a unicorn like Thor, but he'll probably be gone-not sure we want to go the all-upside route like that at the moment as well, as he does have unplayable year-1 and year-2? features despite the tantalizing stuff.

I'm thinking:
1) Tre Mann
2) Jared Butler
3) Franz Wagner
4) Jaden Springer
5) Davion Mitchell
6) Chris Duarte
7) Roko Prkacin/JT Thor
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PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2021 1:55 pm    Post subject:

All the times that LAL has drafted for need, the prospect hasn't panned out well.

All of the times that LAL drafted BPA, it was a successful prospect.

I doubt Franz falls out of the lottery.
I'm not as confident about Jared Butler like I once was.
Chris Duarte is my baseline for a good prospect, but I don't think he's the BPA at the spot.

I think Prkacin is one of the better prospects at the Laker pick, and I highly doubt he's a 3pt chucker. One of his best attributes is attacking closeouts and reading on the drive, not 3pt shooting.

JT Thor as a BPA is completely dependent on how LAL chooses to develop him. The physical tools are there, but the raw skill set, is not.

Springer I have lottery. Mitchell, I think is grossly overrated mostly due to age. But when LAL has picked guys I have on my Top 3 list, they've been successful. When they haven't (See 2018), it's a totally lost year.
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PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2021 2:27 pm    Post subject:

Essentially we now have 2 draft threads. Should this be merged with the original?
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PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2021 3:43 pm    Post subject:

Done.
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PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2021 1:08 pm    Post subject:

Cade Cunningham
Evan Mobley
Jalen Suggs

Moses Moody
Keon Johnson

Jalen Green
Jaden Springer
Josh Giddey

Jalen Johnson
Franz Wagner

Kai Jones
James Bouknight
Jonathan Kuminga
Alperen Sengun
Roko Prkacin

Sharife Cooper
Usman Garuba
Scottie Barnes
Ziaire Williams
Corey Kispert

Tre Mann
Vrenz Bleijenbergh
Miles McBride
Bones Hyland
Jared Butler

Davion Mitchell
Aaron Henry
Chris Duarte
Kessler Edwards
Rokas Jokubaitis

Day'Ron Sharpe
Trey Murphy III
Terrance Shannon Jr.
Josh Christopher
Joel Ayayi



Ron Harper Jr.
Sandro Mamukelashvili
Gabriele Procida
Isaiah Todd
Daishon Nix

Charles Bassey
Isaiah Livers
Neemias Queta
Ariel Hukporti
Jason Presley

Terry Taylor
EJ Onu
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Last edited by Mike@LG on Mon May 31, 2021 7:52 am; edited 1 time in total
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