Marvelous Marvin Nathaniel Hagler (May 23, 1954 – March 13, 2021)
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jodeke
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:49 pm    Post subject:

Heartburn wrote:
Kudos to Mayweather for bobbing and weaving, but I don't think you win a fight while doing NOTHING.

How can you say not being hit by a professional fighter, any professional fighter, is doing NOTHING? Money moved, bobbed and weaved, stayed out of harm's way for 50 fights undefeated. He ducked the best, beat the best. Money May ran the gamut. You may not like him, his personality, or his style of boxing but he did it all and IMO did it well.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 12:50 pm    Post subject:

Mayweather is a joke. And how did we end up talking about that clown in a thread regarding one of the greatest fighters of all time?

Hagler was on of my favorites. Top 5 for sure. He was a true champion and warrior and fought the best at their best to prove that point. Unlike some more recent "chumps" out there.

That Hagler/Leonard fight was one the worst robberies I had seen up to that point. Sadly, even back then "showmen" could steal entire fights by doing nothing more than throwing a flurry of ineffective and mostly off target punches.

Marvelous was the king of the middleweight division at a time when it was at a peak in my lifetime.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 2:44 pm    Post subject:

Leonard lost against Hagler and Hearns (2nd time). Both decisions were egregious. Hagler should have easily been undefeated against the 3 other kings.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 10:37 pm    Post subject:

Sorry, Hagler did nothing to Leonard in that fight as far as hurting him, so saying the decision was egregious is simply not fair. Yes, Leonard was the showman, but he also landed more punches. It would be one thing if the argument was "well, those punches did nothing and Hagler clearly hurt Leonard and rocked him a bunch of times." That did not happen. The fact is that it was a reasonably close fight, and when that happens and when there are no knockdowns and when no one is even hurt, you leave it open to the guy who landed more punches, landed a higher percentage of punches, landed a higher percentage of power punches, and was more "active."

Boxing has had too many egregious decisions to count, which is why I finally gave up watching the sport because it became a joke. That decision was not one of them, however. I can agree that Jojo Guerra scoring the fight 118-110 was ridiculous, for sure. But it was a close fight and it was very much within reason that a decision could have gone to Leonard.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 8:44 am    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
Heartburn wrote:
Kudos to Mayweather for bobbing and weaving, but I don't think you win a fight while doing NOTHING.

How can you say not being hit by a professional fighter, any professional fighter, is doing NOTHING? Money moved, bobbed and weaved, stayed out of harm's way for 50 fights undefeated. He ducked the best, beat the best. Money May ran the gamut. You may not like him, his personality, or his style of boxing but he did it all and IMO did it well.


Agreed. I’m sure I would enjoy his fights more if he was much more aggressive and even reckless, but it still takes a lot of intelligence and skill to do what he did and I respect him for it.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:55 am    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
Sorry, Hagler did nothing to Leonard in that fight as far as hurting him, so saying the decision was egregious is simply not fair. Yes, Leonard was the showman, but he also landed more punches. It would be one thing if the argument was "well, those punches did nothing and Hagler clearly hurt Leonard and rocked him a bunch of times." That did not happen. The fact is that it was a reasonably close fight, and when that happens and when there are no knockdowns and when no one is even hurt, you leave it open to the guy who landed more punches, landed a higher percentage of punches, landed a higher percentage of power punches, and was more "active."

Boxing has had too many egregious decisions to count, which is why I finally gave up watching the sport because it became a joke. That decision was not one of them, however. I can agree that Jojo Guerra scoring the fight 118-110 was ridiculous, for sure. But it was a close fight and it was very much within reason that a decision could have gone to Leonard.


I have to disagree on a point of two. Hagler did hurt Leonard a couple times. But mainly he was ineffective at getting to Leonard even in the later rounds where Leonard had slowed down, due to sugar’s remarkable defensive skills even standing right in front of you (very much like Ali that way).

Leonard has no need to defend his chin or his willingness to mix it up. The first Duran fight alone is testament to both. Hagler had perhaps the best chin in the middle weight classes, among the best all time. He just relentlessly came at you and you couldn’t hurt him enough to keep him off you. So Leonard was right to stick and move, and while he had some fancy late flurries that are classic round stealing stuff, he was also fighting a smart fight against a guy he knew he couldn’t put out, and he wasn’t repeating the Duran fight with a much bigger, harder hitting guy, especially since he was rusty himself.

As to the fight, Leonard is my favorite boxer all time and I think he dictated the fight, landed more, and won more clear rounds, but I also don’t have any problem with people who see it the other way. It was a close fight. Leonard in some ways suffers from Steph syndrome where being pretty, fast, and fancy made people not see him as the true warrior he was. He took and gave from the best of the best, and he has nothing to apologize for in the “macho” category.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 1:18 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
Sorry, Hagler did nothing to Leonard in that fight as far as hurting him, so saying the decision was egregious is simply not fair. Yes, Leonard was the showman, but he also landed more punches. It would be one thing if the argument was "well, those punches did nothing and Hagler clearly hurt Leonard and rocked him a bunch of times." That did not happen. The fact is that it was a reasonably close fight, and when that happens and when there are no knockdowns and when no one is even hurt, you leave it open to the guy who landed more punches, landed a higher percentage of punches, landed a higher percentage of power punches, and was more "active."

Boxing has had too many egregious decisions to count, which is why I finally gave up watching the sport because it became a joke. That decision was not one of them, however. I can agree that Jojo Guerra scoring the fight 118-110 was ridiculous, for sure. But it was a close fight and it was very much within reason that a decision could have gone to Leonard.


This sounds like he did a hellofa lot to hurt him. From the mouth of Leonard.

Quote:
Leonard told Mannix that the fight was the closest he has been to death. Talked to @SugarRayLeonard tonight about Marvin Hagler, his middleweight rival who passed away on Saturday at age 66. Said Leonard of their epic 1987 war, “it was the closest I've been to death.” Leonard, 64, was two years younger than Hagler

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 1:42 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
Sorry, Hagler did nothing to Leonard in that fight as far as hurting him, so saying the decision was egregious is simply not fair. Yes, Leonard was the showman, but he also landed more punches. It would be one thing if the argument was "well, those punches did nothing and Hagler clearly hurt Leonard and rocked him a bunch of times." That did not happen. The fact is that it was a reasonably close fight, and when that happens and when there are no knockdowns and when no one is even hurt, you leave it open to the guy who landed more punches, landed a higher percentage of punches, landed a higher percentage of power punches, and was more "active."

Boxing has had too many egregious decisions to count, which is why I finally gave up watching the sport because it became a joke. That decision was not one of them, however. I can agree that Jojo Guerra scoring the fight 118-110 was ridiculous, for sure. But it was a close fight and it was very much within reason that a decision could have gone to Leonard.


Watched the fight again a few days ago. I still feel that Hagler was responsible for landing the more taxing blows, and for the most part did better more effective work in the early to mid portions of each round. Sugar did end rounds with flurries and nice combos which may have swayed the scoring his way, a testament to his unreal stamina. However when Marvin managed to connect he made it count. It comes down to quality over quantity for me. And Ray, as the challenger, did not do enough to hurt Hagler in my opinion. Don’t want to sound like I’m pissing on Ray because he was absolutely one of the greatest ever, and a beautiful fighter who had it all. But Marvin was still a force at this time, and even though he was right on the precipice of his prime in 87 he still did enough to defend his crown against a legend like Leonard. As an aside, this bout would have been even better had it taken place at least 4 years earlier. Hagler was a bit slower in his reflexes and not quite the wrecking ball that he was during the early to mid 80s. Ray had also been retired for a few years, and was likely better rested.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 3:16 pm    Post subject:

Hagler was the original Tyson (all due respect to Sonny Liston). Just came at you with limited but solid skill set, relentless, heavy puncher who you couldn’t seem to hurt. The left handedness made it even more difficult. Long arms and carried his weight high in his shoulders. Was a bigger frame than most middleweights and certainly than the natural welterweights who came up to him.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:29 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Sorry, Hagler did nothing to Leonard in that fight as far as hurting him, so saying the decision was egregious is simply not fair. Yes, Leonard was the showman, but he also landed more punches. It would be one thing if the argument was "well, those punches did nothing and Hagler clearly hurt Leonard and rocked him a bunch of times." That did not happen. The fact is that it was a reasonably close fight, and when that happens and when there are no knockdowns and when no one is even hurt, you leave it open to the guy who landed more punches, landed a higher percentage of punches, landed a higher percentage of power punches, and was more "active."

Boxing has had too many egregious decisions to count, which is why I finally gave up watching the sport because it became a joke. That decision was not one of them, however. I can agree that Jojo Guerra scoring the fight 118-110 was ridiculous, for sure. But it was a close fight and it was very much within reason that a decision could have gone to Leonard.


This sounds like he did a hellofa lot to hurt him. From the mouth of Leonard.

Quote:
Leonard told Mannix that the fight was the closest he has been to death. Talked to @SugarRayLeonard tonight about Marvin Hagler, his middleweight rival who passed away on Saturday at age 66. Said Leonard of their epic 1987 war, “it was the closest I've been to death.” Leonard, 64, was two years younger than Hagler


I probably could have worded it better. I'm sure some of the punches did actually hurt, sure. I was trying to convey that he never seemed staggered, never seemed in trouble, never was cut, I don't think. And the same way with Leonard towards Hagler. It was a fight where I think Leonard won most of the early rounds, with the rest of the fight being close and probably favoring Hagler a bit. Anytime you have a close fight and it goes to a decision, where it's subjective and being decided by judges (like ice skating, diving, etc.), it's difficult to say one person was robbed. As I said, Jojo Guerra scoring it 118-110 was just ridiculous, which kind of nullifies his opinion entirely, so I suppose Hagler backers can say that it was a split among the other 2 judges. Anything in the 115-113 range either way would've been acceptable to me, having watched it back many times over the years, although not recently. That's how Moretti and Filippo scored it, for Leonard and Hagler, respectively.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:28 am    Post subject:

panamaniac wrote:
Leonard lost against Hagler and Hearns (2nd time). Both decisions were egregious. Hagler should have easily been undefeated against the 3 other kings.


I remember you were a countryman of Roberto Duran's. How do you rank Duran against Hagler, Hearns, and Leonard?
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 11:12 am    Post subject:

non-player zealot wrote:
panamaniac wrote:
Leonard lost against Hagler and Hearns (2nd time). Both decisions were egregious. Hagler should have easily been undefeated against the 3 other kings.


I remember you were a countryman of Roberto Duran's. How do you rank Duran against Hagler, Hearns, and Leonard?

Leonard, Hagler, Hearns, No Mas. I put Leonard 1st because he'd take a year or so off and come back as though he'd never left.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 12:40 pm    Post subject:

non-player zealot wrote:
panamaniac wrote:
Leonard lost against Hagler and Hearns (2nd time). Both decisions were egregious. Hagler should have easily been undefeated against the 3 other kings.


I remember you were a countryman of Roberto Duran's. How do you rank Duran against Hagler, Hearns, and Leonard?


That's a tough one for myself, and I'm obviously biased. Though I'm a huge fan of both Leonard and Hagler (I tend to gravitate towards middle weights... De La Hoya and Whitaker being my other favorites). Duran was a natural lightweight, were he was very dominant. As a lightweight I'd say he is at or near the top. As a middleweight I think it's a different story. Duran had great longevity and was insanely prolific, but his jump over to middleweight was marred by it's ups and downs. The 1st Leonard fight is likely his crowning achievement. The 'No Mas' incident is what (rightfully) brings him down a notch or two in the eyes of most observers. Although, I'd personally be hesitant to define Duran's career squarely on 'No Mas', as he did go on to achieve impressive triumphs after that (Davey Moore and Iran Barkley come to mind). But I understand the reasoning. I'd chalk it up more to a dumb lapse of judgment (and a costly one) rather than cowardice. Ultimately it's tough for me to say that Duran was a better middleweight than both Leonard and Hagler, as those two simply had more success and were more consistent/dominant over their respective eras (the 80s). It has to come down to wins and losses. So I'd likely say Leonard-Hagler-Duran-Hearns, for that era and division. P4P would maybe vary a bit. Lastly, I will say that Duran's defense and instincts are MASSIVELY underrated, dude could slip punches like a madman. It's what helped him survive that era as a shorter, slower and older competitor.

As an aside, my previous comment wasn't meant as a shot on Sugar Ray, but rather to call out the shoddy judging that's plagued boxing over the years.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:16 am    Post subject:

As far as I’m concerned, Duran has nothing to account for with the No Mas fight. I thing about him before or since has ever given anyone call to doubt his courage. I believe him that he didn’t feel well or right and couldn’t continue (because he knew what quitting would mean) exacerbated by the fact that Leonard was on a highly successful mission to humiliate and destroy him. Leonard proved he had a chin if not a fully functioning decision maker by stupidly trying to beat Duran flat footed in the middle of the ring the previous fight, but he learned his lesson and fought his fight, and healthy or no, Duran couldn’t touch him or defend himself. Leonard was breaking him down and was intent on hurting him, and that might be the most complete domination of an all time elite guy in his prime by a peer I’ve seen in the ring.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:40 am    Post subject:

I’m of the firm belief that if Duran would have taken the second fight as seriously as he did Montreal, then another rooster would have sung.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:03 pm    Post subject:

I'm of an opinion Durant did what Sonny Liston did in the Ali fight, quit because he was getting his ass kicked, and saw no other way to avert the whooping. Liston quit on his stool, Durant quit during the fight.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:00 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
I'm of an opinion Durant did what Sonny Liston did in the Ali fight, quit because he was getting his ass kicked, and saw no other way to avert the whooping. Liston quit on his stool, Durant quit during the fight.


And because of that 2nd Ali fight, Liston gets massively underrated when he would have been a nightmare for literally every other all-time great heavyweight for his strength and boxing skill. Think about how Liston fights and what he did to all-time great former undisputed heavyfight champion of the world Floyd Patterson and someone like Frazier and Tyson (especially Frazier) would have been put on his ass within 5 rounds. Joe Frazier thinks he can get up from George Foreman's bombs....I would venture to guess he would not get up from Sonny Liston's fists. Sonny wouldnt be intimidated by the big boys (6'4 and up) as old Sonny sparred with Foreman and Foreman said Sonny is the only man who ever could force George to outbox him because he couldnt outslug Sonny like he could do to anyone else. Likewise, I would have liked to see anyone try to stop Duran from getting inside at the Lightweight division. That guy had supreme skills when it came to getting inside and no one could stop him at that weight. The only man who ever truly outclassed Duran and frankly embarassed him was Tommy Hearns.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:12 pm    Post subject:

panamaniac wrote:
I’m of the firm belief that if Duran would have taken the second fight as seriously as he did Montreal, then another rooster would have sung.


Nah, he couldn’t handle Leonard when Leonard didn’t stand in front of him. I remember his trainer saying something about Leonard impressing him with his chin and his power in the first fight. So there is little doubt he was taking him seriously. Leonard was bigger with more reach and speed and was technically brilliant as well.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:30 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
panamaniac wrote:
I’m of the firm belief that if Duran would have taken the second fight as seriously as he did Montreal, then another rooster would have sung.


Nah, he couldn’t handle Leonard when Leonard didn’t stand in front of him. I remember his trainer saying something about Leonard impressing him with his chin and his power in the first fight. So there is little doubt he was taking him seriously. Leonard was bigger with more reach and speed and was technically brilliant as well.


The hypothetical Mayweather vs Leonard is the most exciting and unpredictable matchup in a battle with the 4 Kings. With the other 3, you can coreograph what a fight with each of the other 3 would look like. With Mayweather, Ray would be fighting a guy who is even more technically disciplined and skilled than he is while arguably just as physically gifted. Wilfred Benitez could be made as a comparison but in that tactical fight, Leonard was winning, albeit a close fight. I think the only King that could possibly outfight Floyd in a tactical match is Hearns. What Leonard would do in a fight with Floyd would be fascinating
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:38 pm    Post subject:

1995Lakers wrote:
jodeke wrote:
I'm of an opinion Durant did what Sonny Liston did in the Ali fight, quit because he was getting his ass kicked, and saw no other way to avert the whooping. Liston quit on his stool, Durant quit during the fight.


And because of that 2nd Ali fight, Liston gets massively underrated when he would have been a nightmare for literally every other all-time great heavyweight for his strength and boxing skill. Think about how Liston fights and what he did to all-time great former undisputed heavyfight champion of the world Floyd Patterson and someone like Frazier and Tyson (especially Frazier) would have been put on his ass within 5 rounds. Joe Frazier thinks he can get up from George Foreman's bombs....I would venture to guess he would not get up from Sonny Liston's fists. Sonny wouldnt be intimidated by the big boys (6'4 and up) as old Sonny sparred with Foreman and Foreman said Sonny is the only man who ever could force George to outbox him because he couldnt outslug Sonny like he could do to anyone else. Likewise, I would have liked to see anyone try to stop Duran from getting inside at the Lightweight division. That guy had supreme skills when it came to getting inside and no one could stop him at that weight. The only man who ever truly outclassed Duran and frankly embarassed him was Tommy Hearns.


Hearns was a terrible mismatch for Duran. Tommy had height and reach for days, and perhaps the fastest lefty jab ever (and a devastating right for a finisher). Duran's strategy vs taller guys was to maintain a distance and time his head movement to slip jabs, then step in to land close range body blows. But Hearns hand speed was too much, where Duran couldn't roll with them. And frankly, Duran looked lost that day. He stood straight and had no movement or misdirection. All the credit to Hearns, he was a beast.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:12 pm    Post subject:

1995Lakers wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
panamaniac wrote:
I’m of the firm belief that if Duran would have taken the second fight as seriously as he did Montreal, then another rooster would have sung.


Nah, he couldn’t handle Leonard when Leonard didn’t stand in front of him. I remember his trainer saying something about Leonard impressing him with his chin and his power in the first fight. So there is little doubt he was taking him seriously. Leonard was bigger with more reach and speed and was technically brilliant as well.


The hypothetical Mayweather vs Leonard is the most exciting and unpredictable matchup in a battle with the 4 Kings. With the other 3, you can coreograph what a fight with each of the other 3 would look like. With Mayweather, Ray would be fighting a guy who is even more technically disciplined and skilled than he is while arguably just as physically gifted. Wilfred Benitez could be made as a comparison but in that tactical fight, Leonard was winning, albeit a close fight. I think the only King that could possibly outfight Floyd in a tactical match is Hearns. What Leonard would do in a fight with Floyd would be fascinating


Leonard was actually bigger and stronger naturally, and had more foot and hand speed. And he was a really really good counter the counter guy. Floyd would be fighting a guy who he couldn’t outrun, couldn’t outpunch, couldn’t stand toe to toe with, and who would sit on his counters and had the hand and foot speed to do it.

I think Duran would have knocked him out, and he was no way going to get in a ring at middleweight with Hagler. He was a light puncher at lightweight.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:55 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
panamaniac wrote:
I’m of the firm belief that if Duran would have taken the second fight as seriously as he did Montreal, then another rooster would have sung.


Nah, he couldn’t handle Leonard when Leonard didn’t stand in front of him. I remember his trainer saying something about Leonard impressing him with his chin and his power in the first fight. So there is little doubt he was taking him seriously. Leonard was bigger with more reach and speed and was technically brilliant as well.


Durán had no issues out-pointing Leonard, at Leonard's preferred range, during the early stages of the Montreal fight. Leonard couldn't establish his jab from range early on, that's why he decided to step inside in the latter rounds.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:04 pm    Post subject:

panamaniac wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
panamaniac wrote:
I’m of the firm belief that if Duran would have taken the second fight as seriously as he did Montreal, then another rooster would have sung.


Nah, he couldn’t handle Leonard when Leonard didn’t stand in front of him. I remember his trainer saying something about Leonard impressing him with his chin and his power in the first fight. So there is little doubt he was taking him seriously. Leonard was bigger with more reach and speed and was technically brilliant as well.


Durán had no issues out-pointing Leonard, at Leonard's preferred range, during the early stages of the Montreal fight. Leonard couldn't establish his jab from range early on, that's why he decided to step inside in the latter rounds.


You need to watch it again. Leonard made a point very early to stand in the middle (even admitted later he wanted to prove he wasn’t a pretty boy who couldn’t mix it up with the bruising Duran). He found Duran at range and in the move easily, as evidenced in the second fight. Duran had nothing for it because Leonard had pop in the jab and the ability to counter and move when he decided not to stand there, and Duran couldn’t slip it and get in range.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:30 am    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
panamaniac wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
panamaniac wrote:
I’m of the firm belief that if Duran would have taken the second fight as seriously as he did Montreal, then another rooster would have sung.


Nah, he couldn’t handle Leonard when Leonard didn’t stand in front of him. I remember his trainer saying something about Leonard impressing him with his chin and his power in the first fight. So there is little doubt he was taking him seriously. Leonard was bigger with more reach and speed and was technically brilliant as well.


Durán had no issues out-pointing Leonard, at Leonard's preferred range, during the early stages of the Montreal fight. Leonard couldn't establish his jab from range early on, that's why he decided to step inside in the latter rounds.


You need to watch it again. Leonard made a point very early to stand in the middle (even admitted later he wanted to prove he wasn’t a pretty boy who couldn’t mix it up with the bruising Duran). He found Duran at range and in the move easily, as evidenced in the second fight. Duran had nothing for it because Leonard had pop in the jab and the ability to counter and move when he decided not to stand there, and Duran couldn’t slip it and get in range.


Leonard made a clear attempt to establish distance early on in Montreal, the problem is he whiffed on his jabs because Durán was slipping them. Anytime Leonard tried to fight from range, Duràn had no issue closing in. Ray was never going to keep him at bay for all 15 rounds because Durán was conditioned and determined to follow Ray's defensive movement, stalk him, and close the ring space. Trying to dance Durán wouldn’t have solved much, Leonard would have spent the entire night against the ropes. There’s a reason Dundee didn’t want Leonard backpedaling during the 1st fight. Durán also showed he could soften Ray's defensive stance with subtle head movement and fainting hits. Durán had no where near that type of focus or activity in the New Orleans fight, probably cuz he'd been perpetually (bleep) faced for the couple of months in between. To Durán's shame, he embarrassed himself. And to Ray's credit he capped off the humiliation by executing a savvy game plan and making Roberto quit. However, I wouldn't undersell Durán's ability to box, just like I wouldn't undersell Leonard's ability to in-fight.
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jodeke
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:55 pm    Post subject:

1995Lakers wrote:
jodeke wrote:
I'm of an opinion Durant did what Sonny Liston did in the Ali fight, quit because he was getting his ass kicked, and saw no other way to avert the whooping. Liston quit on his stool, Durant quit during the fight.


And because of that 2nd Ali fight, Liston gets massively underrated when he would have been a nightmare for literally every other all-time great heavyweight for his strength and boxing skill. Think about how Liston fights and what he did to all-time great former undisputed heavyfight champion of the world Floyd Patterson and someone like Frazier and Tyson (especially Frazier) would have been put on his ass within 5 rounds. Joe Frazier thinks he can get up from George Foreman's bombs....I would venture to guess he would not get up from Sonny Liston's fists. Sonny wouldnt be intimidated by the big boys (6'4 and up) as old Sonny sparred with Foreman and Foreman said Sonny is the only man who ever could force George to outbox him because he couldnt outslug Sonny like he could do to anyone else. Likewise, I would have liked to see anyone try to stop Duran from getting inside at the Lightweight division. That guy had supreme skills when it came to getting inside and no one could stop him at that weight. The only man who ever truly outclassed Duran and frankly embarassed him was Tommy Hearns.

On his stool before the fight Floyd said "Look at him, he's mad at me." Floyd was afraid of Sonny. He beat Patterson before the fight. He beat him the locker room.
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