Marvelous Marvin Nathaniel Hagler (May 23, 1954 – March 13, 2021)
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1995Lakers
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2021 11:44 am    Post subject:

Heartburn wrote:
The other thing is watching without listening to commentators is WAAAY different than what you eyes are telling you. In almost every fight.


Trust me when I say Oscar is my favorite boxer as he is the one I emulated most when I was an amateur collegiate boxer (almost exact same body proportions and left hand dominant while fighting orthodox) same as Oscar meaning the same strengths in the jab and the Oscar special: left hook as well. That said to me against Floyd, he lost as Floyd looked as if he was always in control and Oscar's flurries were doing absolutely nothing to Floyd and he noticeably tired in the end. This fight I scored 116-112 Floyd and it actually looked like Oscar gave it everything whereas it was a just bad day in the office for Floyd. If they were to fight 5 more times, it would be Floyd figuring out Oscar and picking him apart rather than Oscar figuring out how to fight Floyd similar to what happened to Jose Luis Castillo.

As to Omar's point. Floyd's handpicking of fighters when they were not true threats to him is absolutely spot on. When I think of Mayweather's career, the only time going into the fight where he was at a real risk to lose and was believed to be a genuine underdog or 50-50 was against Corrales. The other great fighters were either not in their primes (Oscar, Pacquiao, Mosley, even Judah) or had styles that Mayweather knew he could pick apart (Canelo, Hatton, Marquez).

Against the 4 Kings, I actually favor Floyd vs Duran as you would be seeing a similar replay to Benitez vs Duran. Vs Leonard would be a real treat and actually I favor Leonard slightly in that fight. Vs Hearns ditto Leonard but Tommy holds even greater physical advantages over Floyd than Leonard and the one weakness of Tommy Hearns cant be exploited by Floyd as Mayweather's power pretty much sapped once he moved up to Welterweight and above. I actually think Hagler would be a good matchup for Floyd and Floyd following his gameplan to a tee can outbox Hagler enough to score for the win.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2021 11:54 am    Post subject:

1995Lakers wrote:
Heartburn wrote:
The other thing is watching without listening to commentators is WAAAY different than what you eyes are telling you. In almost every fight.


Trust me when I say Oscar is my favorite boxer as he is the one I emulated most when I was an amateur collegiate boxer (almost exact same body proportions and left hand dominant while fighting orthodox) same as Oscar meaning the same strengths in the jab and the Oscar special: left hook as well. That said to me against Floyd, he lost as Floyd looked as if he was always in control and Oscar's flurries were doing absolutely nothing to Floyd and he noticeably tired in the end. This fight I scored 116-112 Floyd and it actually looked like Oscar gave it everything whereas it was a just bad day in the office for Floyd. If they were to fight 5 more times, it would be Floyd figuring out Oscar and picking him apart rather than Oscar figuring out how to fight Floyd similar to what happened to Jose Luis Castillo.

As to Omar's point. Floyd's handpicking of fighters when they were not true threats to him is absolutely spot on. When I think of Mayweather's career, the only time going into the fight where he was at a real risk to lose and was believed to be a genuine underdog or 50-50 was against Corrales. The other great fighters were either not in their primes (Oscar, Pacquiao, Mosley, even Judah) or had styles that Mayweather knew he could pick apart (Canelo, Hatton, Marquez)


Disagree. I don't think you get a win for tap-tap-tap punching. that's BS. most of the punches Floyd put out were blocked by Oscar's gloves. Oscar had better punches and was never in danger. Activity without results is not impressive to me.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 12:07 am    Post subject:

Heartburn wrote:
1995Lakers wrote:
Heartburn wrote:
The other thing is watching without listening to commentators is WAAAY different than what you eyes are telling you. In almost every fight.


Trust me when I say Oscar is my favorite boxer as he is the one I emulated most when I was an amateur collegiate boxer (almost exact same body proportions and left hand dominant while fighting orthodox) same as Oscar meaning the same strengths in the jab and the Oscar special: left hook as well. That said to me against Floyd, he lost as Floyd looked as if he was always in control and Oscar's flurries were doing absolutely nothing to Floyd and he noticeably tired in the end. This fight I scored 116-112 Floyd and it actually looked like Oscar gave it everything whereas it was a just bad day in the office for Floyd. If they were to fight 5 more times, it would be Floyd figuring out Oscar and picking him apart rather than Oscar figuring out how to fight Floyd similar to what happened to Jose Luis Castillo.

As to Omar's point. Floyd's handpicking of fighters when they were not true threats to him is absolutely spot on. When I think of Mayweather's career, the only time going into the fight where he was at a real risk to lose and was believed to be a genuine underdog or 50-50 was against Corrales. The other great fighters were either not in their primes (Oscar, Pacquiao, Mosley, even Judah) or had styles that Mayweather knew he could pick apart (Canelo, Hatton, Marquez)


Disagree. I don't think you get a win for tap-tap-tap punching. that's BS. most of the punches Floyd put out were blocked by Oscar's gloves. Oscar had better punches and was never in danger. Activity without results is not impressive to me.


Oscar in that Floyd fight did the same crap he pulled against the Sturm, Trinidad and even the 2nd Mosley fight which is that he gave away the fight the 2nd half of the fight as he got tired and he stopped throwing as much. Every single one of the fights I mentioned and even the Floyd one, Oscar was winning the first half or even 2/3s of the fight. For some reason, starting with the Trinidad fight, he couldnt close the deal in the latter rounds which always disappointed me about Oscar. Its like ever since his sensational 12th round vs Quartey, he lost his ability to close the deal with the Vargas fight being the one exception during the latter half of his career. What it really tells me is that Oscar's conditioning aka. work ethic was never the best
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 2:19 am    Post subject:

To me a prime Oscar De La Hoya was a better boxer than Mayweather. I also wish Floyd would have fought Manny Pacquiao about 3 years earlier than he did. The version of the fight the boxing world got is not the one it deserved IMO.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 10:32 am    Post subject:

panamaniac wrote:
To me a prime Oscar De La Hoya was a better boxer than Mayweather. I also wish Floyd would have fought Manny Pacquiao about 3 years earlier than he did. The version of the fight the boxing world got is not the one it deserved IMO.


I think a Floyd vs an Oscar at his best would look something very similar to Oscar vs Sweet Pea which was an absolute judging nightmare. Thats one of those rare fights where (if you are obejctive and not actively rooting for one guy) you could change your mind every time you watch the fight.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 11:27 am    Post subject:

panamaniac wrote:
To me a prime Oscar De La Hoya was a better boxer than Mayweather. I also wish Floyd would have fought Manny Pacquiao about 3 years earlier than he did. The version of the fight the boxing world got is not the one it deserved IMO.


Floyd wasn’t fighting manny until he was sure manny was washed. Floyd follows the old Marine Corps motto: “if you find yourself in a fair fight you’ve done something terribly wrong”.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 11:57 am    Post subject:

In any event, it's a bummer that this is a dead sport now. Every time I try to get back to it and pay for a PPV, I'm always disappointed. It's so corrupt and it's like the fight is secondary to the money that everyone's pilfering. Maybe that's always been the case, but I like to believe that there were some real fighter/boxers out there that cared and wanted to beat the best of the best.

I have no faith in the current state of the sport.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:03 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
panamaniac wrote:
To me a prime Oscar De La Hoya was a better boxer than Mayweather. I also wish Floyd would have fought Manny Pacquiao about 3 years earlier than he did. The version of the fight the boxing world got is not the one it deserved IMO.


Floyd wasn’t fighting manny until he was sure manny was washed. Floyd follows the old Marine Corps motto: “if you find yourself in a fair fight you’ve done something terribly wrong”.


Yeah Floyd has been a slick businessman, that's about his best attribute.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 3:02 pm    Post subject:

panamaniac wrote:
To me a prime Oscar De La Hoya was a better boxer than Mayweather. I also wish Floyd would have fought Manny Pacquiao about 3 years earlier than he did. The version of the fight the boxing world got is not the one it deserved IMO.


I totally agree.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 8:54 am    Post subject:

Heartburn wrote:
panamaniac wrote:
To me a prime Oscar De La Hoya was a better boxer than Mayweather. I also wish Floyd would have fought Manny Pacquiao about 3 years earlier than he did. The version of the fight the boxing world got is not the one it deserved IMO.


I totally agree.


De La Hoya vs Mayweather Watch the fight without prejudging it.

Floyd kept Oscar at bay with his jab and he countered with accuracy. He outboxed Oscar. When Oscar used his jab he was more effective. He didn't use it enough.

De La Hoya fought a frustrating fight because he couldn't hit Mayweather, he was swinging haymakers that weren't landing. Floyd blocked or ducked most of his punches.

Floyd did what Floyd does, hit and not be hit. Look at the stats punches thrown, punches landed.

Mayweather won the fight, 116-112 and 115-113, on the scorecards of the judges Chuck Giampa and Jerry Roth. Tom Kaczmarek, the third judge, scored it 115-113 for De La Hoya. Mayweather said he believed he won eight rounds
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 9:04 am    Post subject:

I understand the scoring system, and it’s one reason I like amateur boxing, where the idea is not primarily punishment but skill and scoring. In the pros, the longer rounds and lack of headgear and such contribute to a different game, and fans expect the violence. I respect that Floyd is able to box like an amateur in a pro sport and elude the punishment, but when combined with choosing his opponents carefully for lack of risk, it comes off more than a bit contrived to this purist.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 9:21 am    Post subject:

Floyd, unlike many fighters, didn't end up with brain damage and broke. He used the game, didn't let the game use him.

Mayweather chose his path, didn't let Armani wearing promoters, sitting behind designer desks making fortunes without the danger of being hurt lead him.

It seems he's disliked for doing that. I ain't mad at him. Floyd's estimated net worth is over $500 million. Don't hate the playa, hate the game. LINK
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 1:19 pm    Post subject:

Floyd could not dominate an older and slower De La Hoya. I remember watching that fight and thinking Oscar had won. Either way you score it, no fighter truly outclassed the other. Mayweather then retired so he didn’t have to honor the rematch to De La Hoya. Dude was a cherry picker and a ducker. Mayweather was a tremendous athlete, but he spent too much time avoiding conflict both in and out of the ring.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 3:30 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
Floyd, unlike many fighters, didn't end up with brain damage and broke. He used the game, didn't let the game use him.

Mayweather chose his path, didn't let Armani wearing promoters, sitting behind designer desks making fortunes without the danger of being hurt lead him.

It seems he's disliked for doing that. I ain't mad at him. Floyd's estimated net worth is over $500 million. Don't hate the playa, hate the game. LINK


I don’t dislike him for getting his money. I dislike him for talking so much (bleep) and being unwilling to fight anyone who could cross a street without a walker. He’d have been killed in the era where you couldn’t do that. Every one of the four kings would have absolutely (bleep) him up. Because his defense relied on two things: the other guy was too inexperienced or too washed to get to him; and some fear of his counter. Duran, Hagler, Leonard would have just walked through his weak offerings and knocked him out. They were used to taking far more than his best punch. He might have had a slight chance with hearns unless he caught a right hand.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 8:23 am    Post subject:

panamaniac wrote:
Floyd could not dominate an older and slower De La Hoya. I remember watching that fight and thinking Oscar had won. Either way you score it, no fighter truly outclassed the other. Mayweather then retired so he didn’t have to honor the rematch to De La Hoya. Dude was a cherry picker and a ducker. Mayweather was a tremendous athlete, but he spent too much time avoiding conflict both in and out of the ring.


I understand your frustration. It has validity. It's the way of the beast in today's fight game.

Look at Camelo Alvarez, Errol Spence, most top ranked fighters, champions. They avoid the best. The best fighting the best days is a thing of the past.

I would have liked to have seen Floyd fight the best but that's not what the game is today. Floyd did what many are doing, protected his spot, go after the money, fight tomato cans. I ain't mad at him. Disappointed, YES, mad, NO.

When he did step to the best fans were angry because he won. He didn't win with blood and guts, he won with skills. His fights were boring. He still raked in the Benjamin's because people paid to see him lose. He didn't and folks got pissed.

He's a flamboyant, braggadocious, money flasher. His personality rubs people the wrong way. I don't like it but that's Floyd.

I commend the businessman Floyd. IMO he should have fought the best, he didn't, it's the way boxing has gone.

I repeat Don't hate the playa, hate the game!
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 8:27 am    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Floyd, unlike many fighters, didn't end up with brain damage and broke. He used the game, didn't let the game use him.

Mayweather chose his path, didn't let Armani wearing promoters, sitting behind designer desks making fortunes without the danger of being hurt lead him.

It seems he's disliked for doing that. I ain't mad at him. Floyd's estimated net worth is over $500 million. Don't hate the playa, hate the game. LINK


I don’t dislike him for getting his money. I dislike him for talking so much (bleep) and being unwilling to fight anyone who could cross a street without a walker. He’d have been killed in the era where you couldn’t do that. Every one of the four kings would have absolutely (bleep) him up. Because his defense relied on two things: the other guy was too inexperienced or too washed to get to him; and some fear of his counter. Duran, Hagler, Leonard would have just walked through his weak offerings and knocked him out. They were used to taking far more than his best punch. He might have had a slight chance with hearns unless he caught a right hand.

We have similar peeves. It's what boxing is. How would he have faired in Hagler, Sugar Ray, Duran, Hearns time is subjective. With his skills who really knows, no one. It would have been interesting.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 8:30 am    Post subject:

panamaniac wrote:
Floyd could not dominate an older and slower De La Hoya. I remember watching that fight and thinking Oscar had won. Either way you score it, no fighter truly outclassed the other. Mayweather then retired so he didn’t have to honor the rematch to De La Hoya. Dude was a cherry picker and a ducker. Mayweather was a tremendous athlete, but he spent too much time avoiding conflict both in and out of the ring.

I posted the fight. Watch it again. Look at the punches thrown and landed stats. Mayweather won going away.

Quote:
According to Compubox, De La Hoya landed 82 of 341 power punches (24 percent), and Mayweather landed 138 of 241 (57 percent). De La Hoya connected on 122 of 587 total punches (21 percent), and Mayweather connected on 207 of 481 (43 percent). The pro-De La Hoya crowd booed the split decision in favor of Mayweather

Are you one of the pro-De La Hoya crowd?
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 9:24 am    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
panamaniac wrote:
Floyd could not dominate an older and slower De La Hoya. I remember watching that fight and thinking Oscar had won. Either way you score it, no fighter truly outclassed the other. Mayweather then retired so he didn’t have to honor the rematch to De La Hoya. Dude was a cherry picker and a ducker. Mayweather was a tremendous athlete, but he spent too much time avoiding conflict both in and out of the ring.


I understand your frustration. It has validity. It's the way of the beast in today's fight game.

Look at Camelo Alvarez, Errol Spence, most top ranked fighters, champions. They avoid the best. The best fighting the best days is a thing of the past.

I would have liked to have seen Floyd fight the best but that's not what the game is today. Floyd did what many are doing, protected his spot, go after the money, fight tomato cans. I ain't mad at him. Disappointed, YES, mad, NO.

When he did step to the best fans were angry because he won. He didn't win with blood and guts, he won with skills. His fights were boring. He still raked in the Benjamin's because people paid to see him lose. He didn't and folks got pissed.

He's a flamboyant, braggadocious, money flasher. His personality rubs people the wrong way. I don't like it but that's Floyd.

I commend the businessman Floyd. IMO he should have fought the best, he didn't, it's the way boxing has gone.

I repeat Don't hate the playa, hate the game!


This is where I also give De La Hoya, Trinidad, Mosley, and Vargas and that 90s generation a lot of credit: They were the last generation to truly want to fight a fighter at his best to determine true supremacy. Every one of those guys made a living fighting top fighters in their prime and all of them even paid the price for it. Floyd was right after these guys and made his name in the early mid 2000's and he started this crap of making money and avoiding risky fights. Floyd did this once, fighting Diego Corrales and everyone knows Corrales is a level below all 4 of the guys I first named in this post. I will give Floyd this: in terms of boxing ability/talent compared to that 90s generation, only RJJ, Bowe, Lennox, Oscar and maybe Mosley had anywhere as comparable boxing talent as Mayweather
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 9:51 am    Post subject:

1995Lakers wrote:
jodeke wrote:
panamaniac wrote:
Floyd could not dominate an older and slower De La Hoya. I remember watching that fight and thinking Oscar had won. Either way you score it, no fighter truly outclassed the other. Mayweather then retired so he didn’t have to honor the rematch to De La Hoya. Dude was a cherry picker and a ducker. Mayweather was a tremendous athlete, but he spent too much time avoiding conflict both in and out of the ring.


I understand your frustration. It has validity. It's the way of the beast in today's fight game.

Look at Camelo Alvarez, Errol Spence, most top ranked fighters, champions. They avoid the best. The best fighting the best days is a thing of the past.

I would have liked to have seen Floyd fight the best but that's not what the game is today. Floyd did what many are doing, protected his spot, go after the money, fight tomato cans. I ain't mad at him. Disappointed, YES, mad, NO.

When he did step to the best fans were angry because he won. He didn't win with blood and guts, he won with skills. His fights were boring. He still raked in the Benjamin's because people paid to see him lose. He didn't and folks got pissed.

He's a flamboyant, braggadocious, money flasher. His personality rubs people the wrong way. I don't like it but that's Floyd.

I commend the businessman Floyd. IMO he should have fought the best, he didn't, it's the way boxing has gone.

I repeat Don't hate the playa, hate the game!


This is where I also give De La Hoya, Trinidad, Mosley, and Vargas and that 90s generation a lot of credit: They were the last generation to truly want to fight a fighter at his best to determine true supremacy. Every one of those guys made a living fighting top fighters in their prime and all of them even paid the price for it. Floyd was right after these guys and made his name in the early mid 2000's and he started this crap of making money and avoiding risky fights. Floyd did this once, fighting Diego Corrales and everyone knows Corrales is a level below all 4 of the guys I first named in this post. I will give Floyd this: in terms of boxing ability/talent, only Oscar and maybe Mosley had anywhere as comparable boxing talent as Mayweather


The game has changed. Fight fans blame the best not fighting the best on fighters. I blame it on promoters. To get the belt you have to fight the best. Once there the game changes. Promoters protect their cash cows.

Floyd is a promoter. He like Ali promotes his fights. He chooses his opponents. He uses the game. Fans are displeased because of this. I'm one of the disappointed but with a caveat.

How often do you see fighters control their destiny? Floyd is a fighter, businessman. Fans are not obligated to buy his fights but they do. Why get mad at Floyd, why no get angry at themselves for enabling him?

If Floyd came out of retirement and fought a decent, not the best, a decent fighter, his PPV would be off the charts. He sells his brand. Who's to blame?:
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 10:39 am    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
1995Lakers wrote:
jodeke wrote:
panamaniac wrote:
Floyd could not dominate an older and slower De La Hoya. I remember watching that fight and thinking Oscar had won. Either way you score it, no fighter truly outclassed the other. Mayweather then retired so he didn’t have to honor the rematch to De La Hoya. Dude was a cherry picker and a ducker. Mayweather was a tremendous athlete, but he spent too much time avoiding conflict both in and out of the ring.


I understand your frustration. It has validity. It's the way of the beast in today's fight game.

Look at Camelo Alvarez, Errol Spence, most top ranked fighters, champions. They avoid the best. The best fighting the best days is a thing of the past.

I would have liked to have seen Floyd fight the best but that's not what the game is today. Floyd did what many are doing, protected his spot, go after the money, fight tomato cans. I ain't mad at him. Disappointed, YES, mad, NO.

When he did step to the best fans were angry because he won. He didn't win with blood and guts, he won with skills. His fights were boring. He still raked in the Benjamin's because people paid to see him lose. He didn't and folks got pissed.

He's a flamboyant, braggadocious, money flasher. His personality rubs people the wrong way. I don't like it but that's Floyd.

I commend the businessman Floyd. IMO he should have fought the best, he didn't, it's the way boxing has gone.

I repeat Don't hate the playa, hate the game!


This is where I also give De La Hoya, Trinidad, Mosley, and Vargas and that 90s generation a lot of credit: They were the last generation to truly want to fight a fighter at his best to determine true supremacy. Every one of those guys made a living fighting top fighters in their prime and all of them even paid the price for it. Floyd was right after these guys and made his name in the early mid 2000's and he started this crap of making money and avoiding risky fights. Floyd did this once, fighting Diego Corrales and everyone knows Corrales is a level below all 4 of the guys I first named in this post. I will give Floyd this: in terms of boxing ability/talent, only Oscar and maybe Mosley had anywhere as comparable boxing talent as Mayweather


The game has changed. Fight fans blame the best not fighting the best on fighters. I blame it on promoters. To get the belt you have to fight the best. Once there the game changes. Promoters protect their cash cows.

Floyd is a promoter. He like Ali promotes his fights. He chooses his opponents. He uses the game. Fans are displeased because of this. I'm one of the disappointed but with a caveat.

How often do you see fighters control their destiny? Floyd is a fighter, businessman. Fans are not obligated to buy his fights but they do. Why get mad at Floyd, why no get angry at themselves for enabling him?

If Floyd came out of retirement and fought a decent, not the best, a decent fighter, his PPV would be off the charts. He sells his brand. Who's to blame?:


Me personally if I could control Floyd's career I would have made 2 fights that would have left him with an eternal legacy had he won those fights: 1. the obvious one with Pacquiao a couple years earlier - probably right after Pacman beat Cotto as was the original plan - that would truly be beating Manny at his best with no excuses. 2. Less for legacy but just as dangerous in my opinion would be Paul "The Punisher" Williams who fight fans badgered Mayweather for years of avoiding and at first glance, its obvious why: The guy is physically Tommy Hearns 2.0 with a heavy workrate and a southpaw to boot (think Judah and Corley who tagged him as southpaws during the mid 2000s), although not quite as good as the hitman, his use of his length while good, could be better.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 10:56 am    Post subject:

1995Lakers wrote:
jodeke wrote:
1995Lakers wrote:
jodeke wrote:
panamaniac wrote:
Floyd could not dominate an older and slower De La Hoya. I remember watching that fight and thinking Oscar had won. Either way you score it, no fighter truly outclassed the other. Mayweather then retired so he didn’t have to honor the rematch to De La Hoya. Dude was a cherry picker and a ducker. Mayweather was a tremendous athlete, but he spent too much time avoiding conflict both in and out of the ring.


I understand your frustration. It has validity. It's the way of the beast in today's fight game.

Look at Camelo Alvarez, Errol Spence, most top ranked fighters, champions. They avoid the best. The best fighting the best days is a thing of the past.

I would have liked to have seen Floyd fight the best but that's not what the game is today. Floyd did what many are doing, protected his spot, go after the money, fight tomato cans. I ain't mad at him. Disappointed, YES, mad, NO.

When he did step to the best fans were angry because he won. He didn't win with blood and guts, he won with skills. His fights were boring. He still raked in the Benjamin's because people paid to see him lose. He didn't and folks got pissed.

He's a flamboyant, braggadocious, money flasher. His personality rubs people the wrong way. I don't like it but that's Floyd.

I commend the businessman Floyd. IMO he should have fought the best, he didn't, it's the way boxing has gone.

I repeat Don't hate the playa, hate the game!


This is where I also give De La Hoya, Trinidad, Mosley, and Vargas and that 90s generation a lot of credit: They were the last generation to truly want to fight a fighter at his best to determine true supremacy. Every one of those guys made a living fighting top fighters in their prime and all of them even paid the price for it. Floyd was right after these guys and made his name in the early mid 2000's and he started this crap of making money and avoiding risky fights. Floyd did this once, fighting Diego Corrales and everyone knows Corrales is a level below all 4 of the guys I first named in this post. I will give Floyd this: in terms of boxing ability/talent, only Oscar and maybe Mosley had anywhere as comparable boxing talent as Mayweather


The game has changed. Fight fans blame the best not fighting the best on fighters. I blame it on promoters. To get the belt you have to fight the best. Once there the game changes. Promoters protect their cash cows.

Floyd is a promoter. He like Ali promotes his fights. He chooses his opponents. He uses the game. Fans are displeased because of this. I'm one of the disappointed but with a caveat.

How often do you see fighters control their destiny? Floyd is a fighter, businessman. Fans are not obligated to buy his fights but they do. Why get mad at Floyd, why no get angry at themselves for enabling him?

If Floyd came out of retirement and fought a decent, not the best, a decent fighter, his PPV would be off the charts. He sells his brand. Who's to blame?:


Me personally if I could control Floyd's career I would have made 2 fights that would have left him with an eternal legacy had he won those fights: 1. the obvious one with Pacquiao a couple years earlier - probably right after Pacman beat Cotto as was the original plan - that would truly be beating Manny at his best with no excuses. 2. Less for legacy but just as dangerous in my opinion would be Paul "The Punisher" Williams who fight fans badgered Mayweather for years of avoiding and at first glance, its obvious why: The guy is physically Tommy Hearns 2.0 with a heavy workrate and a southpaw to boot (think Judah and Corley who tagged him as southpaws during the mid 2000s), although not quite as good as the hitman, his use of his length while good, could be better.


Those would have been great matchups for Floyd. I really believed he ducked Manny. When he finally fought him Manny was injured. That's a fight I'd buy now if both were in shape. Manny would be a charging bull. Floyd would have to have a 10 speed bicycle to stay out of harms way.

William would've also been a great fight. He wasn't quite right after getting KO'd by Sergio Martínez. Too bad he got injured, paralyzed from the waist down. Last I heard he was training fighters.
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Last edited by jodeke on Mon Mar 22, 2021 11:04 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 11:03 am    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
Heartburn wrote:
panamaniac wrote:
To me a prime Oscar De La Hoya was a better boxer than Mayweather. I also wish Floyd would have fought Manny Pacquiao about 3 years earlier than he did. The version of the fight the boxing world got is not the one it deserved IMO.


I totally agree.


De La Hoya vs Mayweather Watch the fight without prejudging it.

Floyd kept Oscar at bay with his jab and he countered with accuracy. He outboxed Oscar. When Oscar used his jab he was more effective. He didn't use it enough.

De La Hoya fought a frustrating fight because he couldn't hit Mayweather, he was swinging haymakers that weren't landing. Floyd blocked or ducked most of his punches.

Floyd did what Floyd does, hit and not be hit. Look at the stats punches thrown, punches landed.

Mayweather won the fight, 116-112 and 115-113, on the scorecards of the judges Chuck Giampa and Jerry Roth. Tom Kaczmarek, the third judge, scored it 115-113 for De La Hoya. Mayweather said he believed he won eight rounds


I watched it and I know what I saw. Ipersonally think the commentators and compubox are garbage. Floyd barely connected with anything that put DLH in danger, if at all. He was ringing up empty points. That kind of boxing is great during the Olympics but IMO, it's hollow. That's the thing about Floyd that I think is weak. He's good at making you miss, but he never brings the action. That's not winning. That's surviving.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 11:18 am    Post subject:

Heartburn wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Heartburn wrote:
panamaniac wrote:
To me a prime Oscar De La Hoya was a better boxer than Mayweather. I also wish Floyd would have fought Manny Pacquiao about 3 years earlier than he did. The version of the fight the boxing world got is not the one it deserved IMO.


I totally agree.


De La Hoya vs Mayweather Watch the fight without prejudging it.

Floyd kept Oscar at bay with his jab and he countered with accuracy. He outboxed Oscar. When Oscar used his jab he was more effective. He didn't use it enough.

De La Hoya fought a frustrating fight because he couldn't hit Mayweather, he was swinging haymakers that weren't landing. Floyd blocked or ducked most of his punches.

Floyd did what Floyd does, hit and not be hit. Look at the stats punches thrown, punches landed.

Mayweather won the fight, 116-112 and 115-113, on the scorecards of the judges Chuck Giampa and Jerry Roth. Tom Kaczmarek, the third judge, scored it 115-113 for De La Hoya. Mayweather said he believed he won eight rounds


I watched it and I know what I saw. Ipersonally think the commentators and compubox are garbage. Floyd barely connected with anything that put DLH in danger, if at all. He was ringing up empty points. That kind of boxing is great during the Olympics but IMO, it's hollow. That's the thing about Floyd that I think is weak. He's good at making you miss, but he never brings the action. That's not winning. That's surviving.


In the eyes of the beholder. Did you see De La Hoya connect with anything that put Floyd in any danger? I didn't. That door swings both ways. Floyd frustrated Oscar. He was swinging for the fences and coming up empty. Floyd landed more punches. His jab kept Oscar at bay. I watched the fight on mute. I wasn't influenced by the commentators. Mayweather won on points. I had the fight 117-111 Mayweather. I'm as bad as Julie Lederman. If you don;t believe me ask LakerLanny or BadGuy.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 12:16 pm    Post subject:

Kudos to Mayweather for bobbing and weaving, but I don't think you win a fight while doing NOTHING.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 12:44 pm    Post subject:

1995Lakers wrote:
This is where I also give De La Hoya, Trinidad, Mosley, and Vargas and that 90s generation a lot of credit: They were the last generation to truly want to fight a fighter at his best to determine true supremacy. Every one of those guys made a living fighting top fighters in their prime and all of them even paid the price for it. Floyd was right after these guys and made his name in the early mid 2000's and he started this crap of making money and avoiding risky fights. Floyd did this once, fighting Diego Corrales and everyone knows Corrales is a level below all 4 of the guys I first named in this post. I will give Floyd this: in terms of boxing ability/talent compared to that 90s generation, only RJJ, Bowe, Lennox, Oscar and maybe Mosley had anywhere as comparable boxing talent as Mayweather


This. At least Oscar had the gall to fight Pacquiao in his prime. Sure Oscar got manhandled by a younger, more ferocious Pacquiao, but he went the distance with Mayweather. I get that styles makes fights. However, the 07-08 version of Pacquiao was ready to steamroll anyone, including Mayweather.
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