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wolfpaclaker
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:58 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Spot on Wolf about Dennis. People think he will be a distributor but he's not that at all. He's a scoring attack guard. I liked what he brought. I would start him, but give him the first sub out so we can have him with the 2nd unit too.

He is a Danny Green replacement (salary wise as well), not a Rondo replacement.

The Lakers wanted to get someone that can hit outside shots, but also do more. Give more depth to what the off guard can do. That is what Schroder is, he is the OFF guard, not the floor general or point guard. This is still Bron. Bro is the PG, Schroder is secondary ballhandler-off guard. This was clear right away.

What I liked about Dennis was his effort on Kawhi on some switches. He is not afraid. Man, he goes at it on D as well. This is what I wanted from him, to show me. That tenacity that Rob raved about. He will go all out on D. Kuzma just drops his head, it pisses me off how he does not get more physical on defense and just drops his head when things do not go his way. Dennis is legit someone I think will play physical and hard on both ends.

We played our 4 most talented players 2 min the 3rd Q and not really after that. (Trez-Dennis + AD-Bron). This is not going to happen later on in the season, in the playoffs. The Clippers duo even played more minutes than our star duo.

All that said, I am concerned about who would do what we got from Rondo. Rondo set up AD anytime AD would have issues getting the ball. Now, as we saw last night, when AD started getting zoned and doubled, we had some issues with connecting with him. A lot of plays Dennis or Bron made, got broken up. Bron at his best can do it. Dennis is not that guy. I am a bit concerned about who is the floor general on this team and who will rally the team when Bron is not. Perhaps Dennis will learn to do that as well, but naturally and historically based on his career, he is not that sort of player-floor general. So who helps the team get out of rough spots when AD is being doubled. We simply can not get the ball into the post effectively, without Rondo, and without James being at his best.
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wolfpaclaker
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:07 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
I could not help but wonder if Serge was like "hey fellas, just go at him" as a former team mate of Gasol's. It was truly pathetic to watch at times. I know it's just one game so I will limit this comment to the two preseason games vs the Suns and the first regular season game: He played like a weekend warrior guy who guzzles beer during a game, has two bad knees, a bad back, and can barely move. Just excruciating. This will be a problem if this does not change.

Yeah, they were aware of Gasol's limitations, but it is also our own defense. We do not know each other at all. Last year, we had moments like this as well, but it was preseason. And we also looked bad in the opening game and half way through second game against I believe the Jazz. It took Caruso taking McGee's spot in the 2nd half, I think.

So playing your Center, who is not very fast, and whose biggest strength is his IQ, passing, outside shooting, and positional post base, and then not using any of that effectively, it will look awful.

Gasol does not have any chemistry yet with AD, and Bron. And defensively that is not a very fast lineup, so you need them to be on the same page. You've basically got 2 completely different guys now around AD/Bron/KCP, from Green/Howard. So it will take some time.

I do wonder if it may be better to bring Gasol off the bench, so he can develop into the "Rondo" of that lineup. I see him as a leader, as a great vision guy, and someone who the ball should run through at high post. We won't really do that with the starters, I think.
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LakerDYnasty72
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:13 pm    Post subject:

DrDent wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
Positives and Negatives I observed.

Positives:

Dennis Schroder looks like a very good 3rd option scorer. He is Rondo playoff level scorer every night. But just the scoring. Defensively when he gets engaged he is also a pest. I liked his game a lot, There is a negative I will mention in negative list

Trez looks like a beast around the basket offensively. The Clippers wanted to stop him and could not.

Negatives:

Bron looks in preseason mode. Bron's defense was not committed like last year. This was to be expected. He seemed like he missed a 100 layups.

Dennis is not Rondo as a playmaker, we already knew this. But it sticks out. He can break down a D great, he can shoot, layup etc, but he can not make post entry passes to AD or set up bigs. We need Bron to do that. We probably have to think about getting Marc Gasol on the 2nd unit or finding a PG.

Marc Gasol installs no fear in the paint defensively. Teams go right at him. This was not the case last year with McGee-Howard. We do not want to become a soft team.

We lack the togetherness that we did last year. I was observing the communications with AD and Dennis, and Bron and the guys. It is not the same. You do not see the togetherness that you saw early last year. Again, maybe this is to be expected but I think this is where you miss Danny Green types. He was a great chemistry guy.

Early, but we are seeing the side effects of losing Danny's team chemistry impact, not having Rondo's passing (post entry, lobs etc) and Howard's defense inside. It will be worrisome if in Feb 2021 we are still talking like that. It was to be expected, as those were key niche role players. The new guys are more talented but also do not have a niche.

Example:

Is Marc a starter who can anchor the middle or is he best as the 2nd unit's playmaker? We certainly could use a high IQ off the bench when Bron sits.

Is Dennis better served starting or off the bench? He had good chemistry with Trez, and was more aggressive when Bron sat. So why is he starting?

Wesley Matthews did not have the role he should on a team like this. We got him to replace Green, but he can not really do that off the bench, can he?


I could not help but wonder if Serge was like "hey fellas, just go at him" as a former team mate of Gasol's. It was truly pathetic to watch at times. I know it's just one game so I will limit this comment to the two preseason games vs the Suns and the first regular season game: He played like a weekend warrior guy who guzzles beer during a game, has two bad knees, a bad back, and can barely move. Just excruciating. This will be a problem if this does not change.


So we've had the longest season, and the shortest off season, of every team except Miami. LeBron & AD looked like it. The effect of the short off season, the focus on the rings on opening night, the absence of fans, and the need for some time for the players to get acquainted with one another, equaled a challenge too great to overcome for our team.

We'll be fine. Gasol is going to get better but the main things for him are (1) get in basketball shape (2) very low minutes overall until the playoffs (3) a situational center against the Jokic', Embiid, Gobert, and Drummond, Steven Adams, kind of centers.

The Ibaka's, Adebayo's, Robinson in NY, and a few others, will need to be guarded by Trez & AD.

Thanks for the summary DB & WP.
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DancingBarry
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:20 pm    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Lakers got outscored points in the paint 50-38 was a significant stat that stood out to me.

Other numbers that stood out:

+ 12 for Clippers in the paint
+ 15 for Clippers from the 3.
+ 4 for Clippers fastbreak points.
+ 3 for Clippers on points off TOs.


Yeah, the points in the paint I thought we did a really poor job with our two stars in that regard. LeBron missed a lot of chippies, more than usual, AD wasn't even in there. The break also plays into that.

I'm closely watching the fastbreak points. The team hasn't looked itself in that regard and there could be a number of reasons for it. I think it will pick up.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:23 pm    Post subject:

angrypuppy wrote:
Thanks DB. That short offseason affected the conditioning. Lebron looked like he had lead weights strapped to his shoes at the start of the game, and other than a couple of nice jump shots, AD was uncharacteristically invisible. On a positive note, two of the new toys (Schröder and Harrell) look ready to make an impact.

I with THT was given more touches, especially when the big guns fell silent during stretches of the second half.


Yeah, at the very least when we weren't bringing back in LBJ, he should have unleashed THT to see what he could do down the stretch.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:27 pm    Post subject:

ribeye wrote:
The game wasn't great, but how about that ring ceremony.

And Jeanie's jacket was perfect for it.


Curious if I could pull off that purple and gold sequin look.
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wolfpaclaker
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:29 pm    Post subject:

DancingBarry wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
Lakers got outscored points in the paint 50-38 was a significant stat that stood out to me.

Other numbers that stood out:

+ 12 for Clippers in the paint
+ 15 for Clippers from the 3.
+ 4 for Clippers fastbreak points.
+ 3 for Clippers on points off TOs.


Yeah, the points in the paint I thought we did a really poor job with our two stars in that regard. LeBron missed a lot of chippies, more than usual, AD wasn't even in there. The break also plays into that.

I'm closely watching the fastbreak points. The team hasn't looked itself in that regard and there could be a number of reasons for it. I think it will pick up.

I believe we were dominant on FB points last season, so I brought it up. I think the Lakers offense needs those quick outlets. We did not get them much, and when we did force a bit of that, we TO'ed the ball. A lot of it is conditioning and change of personnel. But we also probably have to better in the halfcourt this year on offense, and have the talent for it. We should be able to rely less on Lebron's creating, but again, that will take time for Lebron/AD/others to get used to playing off new guys creating. We're getting shot creation from all over the place now, Trez in the paint, Dennis outside. Not just AD/Bron. And THT didn't even get unleashed.
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DancingBarry
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:48 pm    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Positives and Negatives I observed.

Positives:

Dennis Schroder looks like a very good 3rd option scorer. He is Rondo playoff level scorer every night. But just the scoring. Defensively when he gets engaged he is also a pest. I liked his game a lot, There is a negative I will mention in negative list



I think this will be huge for the team as anticipated. It's cliche, but we really do need to get a feel for his tendencies as a team. More so than any other player. Once everyone is on the same page, he's going to be more effective.

And yes, the passing will be a problem at times. The bad decision/lazy stuff is part of the package. His game last night was what would have been a great game for Rondo. If we can just get that great Rondo-like impact with consistency, that will be huge.

Quote:

Bron looks in preseason mode. Bron's defense was not committed like last year. This was to be expected. He seemed like he missed a 100 layups.


He's not going to tolerate losing for too long. And once that hits, we'll see him shake off the sluggish play and the team will click. But he looks like he didn't get to hibernate long enough in the offseason at the moment.

Quote:

Marc Gasol installs no fear in the paint defensively. Teams go right at him. This was not the case last year with McGee-Howard. We do not want to become a soft team.


I think we will likely need him to be aggressive on D more often than not to work. At least that's what the preseason has shown. Those were his best stretches defensively. And we can't have guys who don't fly around on D around him. That's how I think you make that work, is be aggressive at point of attack screens and scramble around him, which we're good at.

Quote:

We lack the togetherness that we did last year. I was observing the communications with AD and Dennis, and Bron and the guys. It is not the same. You do not see the togetherness that you saw early last year. Again, maybe this is to be expected but I think this is where you miss Danny Green types. He was a great chemistry guy.


We also had a preseason to our preseason last year. LeBron had guys in Vegas. Last night, he was lamenting it's been just 9 days of time with them. So we're going to behind in this regard. Hopefully, it catches up.

Quote:

Wesley Matthews did not have the role he should on a team like this. We got him to replace Green, but he can not really do that off the bench, can he?


Didn't like how we used him last night. But our wing defenders in general were awful outside of when we had AD on them. They underperformed and really just to meet the challenge from the start.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:51 pm    Post subject:

av3773 wrote:
Just the first game and I expect the Lakers to play some ugly ball early. It does make me wonder if our eventual regular starting line up (not accounting for specific match up scenarios) eventually becomes...

C - Trezz
PF - AD
SF - Bron
SG - KCP
PG - THT

2nd line

C- Gasol/Morris
PF - Kuzma/Morris
SF - Mathews/Kuzma
SG - AC
PG - DS


Yeah, I'm leaning toward Trezz starting, but we'll see. We want just McGee like minutes from Gasol, I guess. But if other teams can hide a small on him without paying a price, then what's the point? But we need to give them some time to work it out.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:59 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:


I think Bron was partially blame for the loss. He's a ball stopper. On one possession he held the ball the full 24 seconds.


This is also something that I worry about with Gasol playing with LBJ. I think in the preseason we saw moments where the ball was popping and moving around the court when Gasol was in and LBJ was out. I want to see that again.
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wolfpaclaker
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:08 pm    Post subject:

DancingBarry wrote:
av3773 wrote:
Just the first game and I expect the Lakers to play some ugly ball early. It does make me wonder if our eventual regular starting line up (not accounting for specific match up scenarios) eventually becomes...

C - Trezz
PF - AD
SF - Bron
SG - KCP
PG - THT

2nd line

C- Gasol/Morris
PF - Kuzma/Morris
SF - Mathews/Kuzma
SG - AC
PG - DS


Yeah, I'm leaning toward Trezz starting, but we'll see. We want just McGee like minutes from Gasol, I guess. But if other teams can hide a small on him without paying a price, then what's the point? But we need to give them some time to work it out.

If Trez starts, you develop a 2 man game option with Dennis, something that we already saw developing yesterday. The question is now what does that do to your bench - perhaps now you build your bench around Gasol-Kuzma.

Gasol up high as a point Center, and someone like Caruso brings the ball up. THT is your option on a wing, Kuzma from the corner pocket either as a spot up guy or cutter. Gasol-Kuz-THT-Caruso, with one of top 4 shot creators on the team (Dennis, LBJ, Trez, AD). Or if we want to go all bench, we go with Kieff.

That is what my first inclination says we should do by playoffs, but it is early. Trez starting allows us to mantain a post sprinting option, and increase fastbreak points, as well as allow AD to stay at the 4, since Trez has mostly been a 5 the last few years.
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DancingBarry
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:09 pm    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Spot on Wolf about Dennis. People think he will be a distributor but he's not that at all. He's a scoring attack guard. I liked what he brought. I would start him, but give him the first sub out so we can have him with the 2nd unit too.

He is a Danny Green replacement (salary wise as well), not a Rondo replacement.


I think Rondo was at his best in the playoffs when he was more of that scoring guard role. People obviously play off him and play him to pass, so when he decided he was going to score on them instead it was over. But the team in general saw they were better when guys like AC and others put pressure on the rim instead of always looking to dump it off.

The area on the passing I am watching and wondering about is:
Quote:



All that said, I am concerned about who would do what we got from Rondo. Rondo set up AD anytime AD would have issues getting the ball.


Schroder already mentioned needing to develop that chemistry with AD like they had with Rondo, so it's on his mind, too. So if it's a focus, hopefully we see that come to fruition at some point even if it's not totally in his bag. We don't need amazing passing, just more fundamentally sound work and better timing. That will take reps.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:58 pm    Post subject:

i just rewatched ring ceremony. There is now way in hell they were going to play to their capabilities.
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DrDent
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 4:08 pm    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Quote:
I could not help but wonder if Serge was like "hey fellas, just go at him" as a former team mate of Gasol's. It was truly pathetic to watch at times. I know it's just one game so I will limit this comment to the two preseason games vs the Suns and the first regular season game: He played like a weekend warrior guy who guzzles beer during a game, has two bad knees, a bad back, and can barely move. Just excruciating. This will be a problem if this does not change.

Yeah, they were aware of Gasol's limitations, but it is also our own defense. We do not know each other at all. Last year, we had moments like this as well, but it was preseason. And we also looked bad in the opening game and half way through second game against I believe the Jazz. It took Caruso taking McGee's spot in the 2nd half, I think.

So playing your Center, who is not very fast, and whose biggest strength is his IQ, passing, outside shooting, and positional post base, and then not using any of that effectively, it will look awful.

Gasol does not have any chemistry yet with AD, and Bron. And defensively that is not a very fast lineup, so you need them to be on the same page. You've basically got 2 completely different guys now around AD/Bron/KCP, from Green/Howard. So it will take some time.

I do wonder if it may be better to bring Gasol off the bench, so he can develop into the "Rondo" of that lineup. I see him as a leader, as a great vision guy, and someone who the ball should run through at high post. We won't really do that with the starters, I think.


Wolf - i havent deep dived into this at all but here is a thought:

Gasol is the same guy that about a year ago played a huge role in holding Embid to a donut. Zero points.

Could it be the best way to utilize him is in a zone scheme? Nick Nurse loves going to that defense, whereas vogel is loath to do so. Maybe something to keep an eye on?
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:14 pm    Post subject:

Thanks DB!
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:08 pm    Post subject:

Thanks DB for your write ups! Looking forward to you covering 20-21! Thanks for all your time and work.

Oh, and F Paul George.
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