CLIPPERS -at- LAKERS - 12/22 - Thoughts and :-(( Ratings
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DancingBarry
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:13 pm    Post subject: CLIPPERS -at- LAKERS - 12/22 - Thoughts and :-(( Ratings

Kiss the King’s Ring... It’s about winning the last game of the season, not the first. The Clippers can have this one.

The Lakers held their ring ceremony prior to the game, promising to do it again in front of the fans.

Then they got back to work at getting the next one after the shortest offseason ever. Chemistry is going to take a bit of time with the new pieces, but even our returning players need to shake off the tired legs and lungs.

The starters (even our stars) have looked awful to open games. So, the Lakers got their rings and promptly fell back 39-19 after the first quarter. They flipped the tables in the second quarter as the defense started to come together and they got scoring by their backcourt. By halftime, they trailed by 2.

They’d tie it up midway through the third, but never take the lead. Late in the third, Paul George caught fire and we couldn’t put it out. The Clippers pushed back to a double-digit lead and they kept the Lakers there the rest of the game.

The Lakers fell 116-109 to the Clippers. It’s been about a year since the Clippers won this time last year.

“It’s just weird in all facets. It’s just a weird day,” LeBron said of getting the rings with no fans and then starting up the season. “We’ve literally been together for nine days.”


LeBron -- -- Another slow start in this one. He turned the ball over, missed shots and struggled to finish in his first stint. When he’s fully activated, he should be able to get to the rim with some frequency against the Clippers. He’ll also matchup hunt the weaker Clipper defenders. They didn’t do that much. He had 11 points and 2 assists in the first half. In the second half, he picked it up a little more but still struggled to finish. He seemed about 60 percent. He’s turned the ball over a ton in the first few games. Can’t wait for the team to dial it in. He had a little bit of an ankle twist early in the fourth and we didn’t bring him back later after sitting him. It’s a marathon not a sprint and we need to have other step up early on this season to help. He thinks he’ll be good to go in the next one. The Stats: He scored 22 points on 7-17 shooting (3-8 from three, 5-7 from the line) to go with 5 boards, 5 assist, 4 turnovers and 2 fouls in 28 minutes. He was a +2.

Davis -- -- The Clippers sent a lot of doubles to him, forcing the pass. We’re not ready for too many counters to anything right now. So AD ended up with 4 turnovers and just 2 assists. A lot of midrange face-up jumpers. Very little at the rim or set up for him in that regard (no lobs, nothing on the move, no duck ins). Pretty soft game overall in terms of imposing himself. Only a couple of three attempts and he missed them both. Defensively, we put him on Kawhi quite a bit. The Stats: He scored 18 points on 8-15 shooting (0-2 from three, 2-2 from the line) to go with 7 boards, 2 assists, 4 turnovers and 1 foul in 31 minutes. He was a -16.

Schröder -- -- Nearly a triple-double tonight. Just a couple assists off. Really, it didn’t seem like enough ball handling/passing to pull that off. Easily his best outing so far this season. He started off swishing a three on a catch and shoot. He’d hit another wing three in early offense. The team will get better at realizing when Schröder has a mismatch and start clearing out (as well as reading his tendencies on when he will attack and won’t). So he’ll get more effective scoring wise. Some good moments with Harrell out there, whether that was a two-man sequence or just putting pressure on the rim that Harrell can clean up on when Schröder misses. At the very least, you can see the ball handling help he’ll bring LeBron and the team. The second units will put the ball in his hands more, as well, when LeBron sits. For some reason, we didn’t do that later in the game and had both those guys sitting at once and didn’t let THT run the offense. We kind of floundered as a result. I still don’t think he was in his comfort zone at all this game. Lots of room to grow. Defensively, he was disruptive at times and handled the mismatches on switches well. I thought it might take him a few weeks to really get going but some great signs from him in this one. The Stats: He scored 14 points on 5-15 shooting (2-5 from three, 2-4 from the line) to go with 12 boards, 8 assists, 1 turnover and 4 fouls in 28 minutes. He was a -10.

Gasol -- -- Had the smaller Batum on him defensively to start. After we were down 16-5, we called a timeout to get him the ball there and then had a turnover. If we’re going to have a big center out there, we need to either take advantage or switch gears to our small ball which is bigger than most teams. He was in foul trouble which limited his time. The Clippers then brought in Zubac as we sat Gasol. Early in the third, he picked up a cheap fourth and then charged on his fifth foul and was out after 5 minutes into the second half. He had one great rotation and block and that resulted in the Lakers getting out in transition. That was about it for the good stuff, though. As bad as he looked, they still ended up just -8. Felt like -25. The Stats: He didn’t score or shoot, had 1 board, 1 assist, 1 turnover and 5 fouls in 12 minutes. He was -8.

Caldwell-Pope -- -- Key stretch in the second quarter when KCP sparked the offense with some points at the rim and a three. One of the few stretches where we had any real flow going. His energy out there always looks great. He probably looks the most comfortable of any of the returning players. I’d love to see some stretches where we run our guys from last year to get into rhythm as a team. To be fair, though, you need LBJ to be himself. The Stats: He scored 9 points on 2-4 shooting (1-3 from three, 4-4 from the line) to go with 2 boards, 1 assist, 2 steals, 1 block, 2 turnovers and 2 fouls in 23 minutes. He was a -9.

Harrell -- -- Harrell added 17, Schröder had 14. Our two key additions making a solid contribution out of the gates. We saw a little bit of chemistry between the two. Efficient night, making 6-7. He was mostly a finisher or clean-up garbage man, cleaning up on the dribble penetration. I think he had one score in iso over Zu, but nothing really run for him. He was the trigger man on some passing sequences. He had a great feed to Kuz for a layup that looked like he’s already picked up some passing from Gasol. Defensively, reasonable game from him. I would prefer him to start, however, against the Clippers and take it to Batum. Trezz played the most minutes of anyone tonight. The Stats: He scored 17 points on 6-7 shooting (5-7 from the line) to go with 10 boards (4 offensive), 3 assists, 1 block, 1 turnover and 1 foul in 32 minutes. He was -3.

Kuzma -- -- He got cooked by George to close the third quarter. He’s going to be upset about this one as a result. That kind of negated the decent shooting night. He sank a three and hit a lot from the midrange. We’re having him come weak to strong to get passes and shoot. I’d like to see him taking some threes versus some of the long two’s he took on those. The Stats: He scored 15 points on 6-11 shooting (1-3 from three, 2-2 from the line) to go with 1 board, 2 turnovers and 2 fouls in 27 minutes. He was a +1.

Caruso -- :verydad: -- A series of missed threes and a turnover in his first stint. But he was helping the team get stops and ended up with a +8 despite the offensive issues. In the second half, more turnovers. He’d hit one three, but the ugly playmaking in this one hurt. The Stats: He scored 3 points on 1-5 shooting (1-4 from three) to go with 2 boards, 1 assist and 3 turnovers in 17 minutes. He was a +3.

Matthews -- -- Just 6 minutes in the first half off the bench. He stole the ball in the back court, but also gave up a couple easy scores to Kawhi. Not staying with him like he was in the preseason games or last year for the Bucks. The team D around him on the Bucks helped a little more than we did tonight. He couldn’t knock down his couple of threes and his contribution was very limited. The Stats: He didn’t score on 0-2 shooting from three to go with 1 steal in 11 minutes. He was a -18.

Morris -- -- I really think he’s going to be key to our lineups. I just want to see some stretches with AD, Morris, LeBron out there giving us a good 5-out without sacrificing size or D. He led the team with a +14. He sank a three and hit a couple more FTs after getting fouled on a three. The Stats: He had 5 points on 1-3 shooting (1-2 from three, 2-3 from the line) to go with 4 boards, 1 assist and no fouls in 19 minutes. He was a +14.

Horton-Tucker -- -- Unleash the beast. They kept him pretty much off ball and out of the action. Then told him to D-up Kawhi. He scored a couple of layups on drives and earned FTs for his points. Got some cheap whistles on D early on. The Stats: He scored 6 points on 2-2 shooting (2-2 from the line) to go with 1 board, 1 steal, 1 turnover and 3 fouls in 11 minutes. He was a +7.

Cook -- -- In for the final minute. Nothing to report. The Stats: No stats in 1 minute. He was a +2.

Vogel -- -- Key Moment: The Lakers getting their rings. That’s what it’s all about. Not easy to get your team’s head in the right place after that and the Lakers quickly trailed by 22 points in this one. They’d tie it back up in the third, but were awful out of the gates after that ring ceremony.

Key Substitution: Kuz getting torched by Paul George to close out the third. That changed the game.

Key Stats: The Lakers had just 2 blocks and 4 steals. They were outscored 16-12 on the break.

Coach’s Challenge: The refs forced him to burn one in the first half. LeBron scored an And-1 on a drive and they called a foul on him instead. Vogel got the reversal and three points and saved LeBron a foul.
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DrDent
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:10 am    Post subject:

Good summary DB

Strange game. Still had a preseason feel to it.

I hope the D does better - especially Gasol. That was hard to watch at times with him out there.

Not sure I like giving Kuz tough defensive assignments - not good for anyone IMO.

Oh and:

Quote:
Horton-Tucker -- -- Unleash the beast.


Agreed!
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:16 am    Post subject:

DAMN LITTERALLY HAVENT POSTED IN YEARS BUT HAVE BEEN LURKING AND WANTED TO BE FIRST! You beat me to it doc! Great write up as always DB thank you for all your hard work my night is complete once I read your thuoghts and ratings!!!!
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:38 am    Post subject:

tradition32834 wrote:
DAMN LITTERALLY HAVENT POSTED IN YEARS BUT HAVE BEEN LURKING AND WANTED TO BE FIRST! You beat me to it doc! Great write up as always DB thank you for all your hard work my night is complete once I read your thuoghts and ratings!!!!




Post some more.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:58 am    Post subject:

DancingBarry wrote:
tradition32834 wrote:
DAMN LITTERALLY HAVENT POSTED IN YEARS BUT HAVE BEEN LURKING AND WANTED TO BE FIRST! You beat me to it doc! Great write up as always DB thank you for all your hard work my night is complete once I read your thuoghts and ratings!!!! :
Post some more.
Understandable considering the drought the Lakers have had before last year

Minds and Bodies weren't just there, despite all good intentions

Confident that Vogel has a definitive plan on how to play this season with hits historic implications and anticipated chaoc resuting in countless changes/adaptions

This "Twilight Zone"-like experience, considering that LA County/LA City is supposedly under a "complete lockdown" with historic high COVID19 infection rates (highest in the country), was interesting
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 4:59 am    Post subject:

Thanks, DB!

Team looks rusty as (bleep). Lots of work to be done but I'm not worried at all
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:08 am    Post subject:

We're still in preseason mode, fumbling a lot of passes. Gasol's lack of athleticism has been noticeable just handling passes from Lebron.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:05 am    Post subject:

Lakers got outscored points in the paint 50-38 was a significant stat that stood out to me.

Other numbers that stood out:

+ 12 for Clippers in the paint
+ 15 for Clippers from the 3.
+ 4 for Clippers fastbreak points.
+ 3 for Clippers on points off TOs.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:31 am    Post subject:

Thanks DB. That short offseason affected the conditioning. Lebron looked like he had lead weights strapped to his shoes at the start of the game, and other than a couple of nice jump shots, AD was uncharacteristically invisible. On a positive note, two of the new toys (Schröder and Harrell) look ready to make an impact.

I with THT was given more touches, especially when the big guns fell silent during stretches of the second half.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:32 am    Post subject:

Same story as last year.

Low 3 point shooting percentage (31%) + high turnovers (19) = loss.

Playoff loss to the Rockets. 29% 3pts shooting + 15 turnovers.
Playoff loss to the Nuggets. 23% 3pts shooting + 16 turnovers.
Playoff loss to the Heat. 33% 3pts shooting + 19 turnovers.

Nothing to be concerned about.
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wolfpaclaker
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:33 am    Post subject:

My analysis/summary:

The Lakers starters were awful to begin Q1.

Our starting unit of Gasol-AD-Bron-KCP-Schroder was not able to be effective on offense and looked like a preseason team that had not played much together. Dennis was very passive, and Bron made matters worse by being in perimeter mode as well. Even getting AD the ball consistently in good spots was a challenge for Dennis.

Once Trez came into the game, the Lakers played a tad better, but the bench was not really able to change momentum in the first Q. Kuzma was a no show and you could tell right away he was in one of is no show games. Once Bron sat in the 1st Q, we saw Dennis up his aggression. That is when we saw the real Dennis. Interesting if this is evidence that he needs to come off the bench.

What was atrocious was the defense though. A lot of lack of communication and looking lost.

Q2, Lakers finally showed up. It began with defense. Forcing Clippers to make some more passes. and challenging shots inside. Caruso not a surprise here was in the lineup leading the defensive charge. The defensive effort here allowed Lakers to play their style of basketball. It did seem we relied on guys from last year, the lineups featured Caruso/KCP/Kieff/Bron, most of the guys from last year. Dennis and starters came back in closed strong/

Q3, Again, Gasol looked ineffective on both sides. Foul trouble forced Gasol out and Trez in early. Dennis and Trez really looked good in this stint, they were very effective, even though again the chemistry is still developing. The execution is still yeons away from where it will be in a few months. Q3 is really where we saw the potential of this team with the first 5-6 minutes (before Bron sat). The Trez-AD-Bron-KCP-Schroder lineup looked really good on offense. They were getting everything they wanted and that is with guys missing a lot of layups like Bron, Schroder even, etc. Not everyone is in shotmaking form.

Game changed and was over once George got going though. The George Kuzma match up was devastating for us. We really could not defend George.

Q4, Lebron laughing around with Beverly, Lue, kind of showed his intentions. This was not a big game for Bron, He understands the process. Still, I would have liked some more mamba out of Bron in this game. He is coasting and he missed a ton of layups and took a lot of bad shots. Even though the numbers favored him, I did not think he played well at all. Especially on defense.
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ribeye
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:45 am    Post subject:

The game wasn't great, but how about that ring ceremony.

And Jeanie's jacket was perfect for it.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:47 am    Post subject:

Positives and Negatives I observed.

Positives:

Dennis Schroder looks like a very good 3rd option scorer. He is Rondo playoff level scorer every night. But just the scoring. Defensively when he gets engaged he is also a pest. I liked his game a lot, There is a negative I will mention in negative list

Trez looks like a beast around the basket offensively. The Clippers wanted to stop him and could not.

Negatives:

Bron looks in preseason mode. Bron's defense was not committed like last year. This was to be expected. He seemed like he missed a 100 layups.

Dennis is not Rondo as a playmaker, we already knew this. But it sticks out. He can break down a D great, he can shoot, layup etc, but he can not make post entry passes to AD or set up bigs. We need Bron to do that. We probably have to think about getting Marc Gasol on the 2nd unit or finding a PG.

Marc Gasol installs no fear in the paint defensively. Teams go right at him. This was not the case last year with McGee-Howard. We do not want to become a soft team.

We lack the togetherness that we did last year. I was observing the communications with AD and Dennis, and Bron and the guys. It is not the same. You do not see the togetherness that you saw early last year. Again, maybe this is to be expected but I think this is where you miss Danny Green types. He was a great chemistry guy.

Early, but we are seeing the side effects of losing Danny's team chemistry impact, not having Rondo's passing (post entry, lobs etc) and Howard's defense inside. It will be worrisome if in Feb 2021 we are still talking like that. It was to be expected, as those were key niche role players. The new guys are more talented but also do not have a niche.

Example:

Is Marc a starter who can anchor the middle or is he best as the 2nd unit's playmaker? We certainly could use a high IQ off the bench when Bron sits.

Is Dennis better served starting or off the bench? He had good chemistry with Trez, and was more aggressive when Bron sat. So why is he starting?

Wesley Matthews did not have the role he should on a team like this. We got him to replace Green, but he can not really do that off the bench, can he?
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av3773
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:53 am    Post subject:

Just the first game and I expect the Lakers to play some ugly ball early. It does make me wonder if our eventual regular starting line up (not accounting for specific match up scenarios) eventually becomes...

C - Trezz
PF - AD
SF - Bron
SG - KCP
PG - THT

2nd line

C- Gasol/Morris
PF - Kuzma/Morris
SF - Mathews/Kuzma
SG - AC
PG - DS
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:56 am    Post subject:

Spot on Wolf about Dennis. People think he will be a distributor but he's not that at all. He's a scoring attack guard. I liked what he brought. I would start him, but give him the first sub out so we can have him with the 2nd unit too.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:31 am    Post subject:

I see the narrative that our defense got better in the second quarter and led the come back. That's not what I saw at all. The Clippers came out in the second quarter and started hitting the front of the rim with their shots. The first six or seven minutes of the second quarter were identical to the first quarter, except that the Clippers were missing their open shots. Then we came to life around the middle of the quarter. But really, the Clippers could have blown us out. We could have been trailing by 30 or more if the Clippers had made just a few of their easy shots. Heck, we could have given up 130 points on the night, and that would have been a fair reflection of the level of defense I saw.

My major takeaway from this game is that we are more of a work in progress than a lot of people hoped. Obviously, there is no reason to press the panic button based on the first game of the season after a shortened preseason. Vogel and the other coaches will have a lot of time to pull this roster together. They did it last year, and I'm confident that things will be clicking by the time the games start to truly matter. But . . . this game illustrates that we are not so good that we can just throw a half-assed performance against the wall and expect it to stick.

I was impressed with Harrell. He may have been motivated to play against the Clippers, but regardless he came to play. I was lukewarm on Schroder. He struck me as the kind of player who is fun to watch but not always as effective as you would like. I was disappointed by Matthews. I thought he was a key under-the-radar pickup, but instead he looked lost. Casey P. looked surprisingly good for a game this early in the season. Maybe it's about the calendar instead of the schedule, and he just rolls out of bed in the middle of December. Kuzma looked like Kuzma. He scored some points in garbage time to pad his stat line, but in general he was fairly ineffective. I liked what I saw from THT, but he is still really raw.

As for the Clippers, there were a lot of people who have been mocking them during the off-season and writing them off. Well, rumors of their demise are exaggerated. I can see why the national media generally liked their off-season moves. They seem to have a plan for how they want to play. Once we get our team rowing in the same direction and playing organized defense, I'm confident that we'll handle the Clippers just fine. But for one game, I'll tip my hat to them. They were the better team on the night.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:37 am    Post subject:

Thanks, DB!

Lakers are 5-5 in their last 10 "ring ceremony" games.

2020 ring ceremony game - L
2011 ring ceremony game - W
2010 ring ceremony game - W
2002 ring ceremony game - L
2001 ring ceremony game - W
2000 ring ceremony game - L
1988 ring ceremony game - W
1987 ring ceremony game - W
1985 ring ceremony game - L
1982 ring ceremony game - L

It'll take us 20 games to get in rhythm. My sole concern is the glacial speed at which Gasol moves.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:34 am    Post subject:

Biggest takeaway is these guys need to find their role and star in it. That’s going to take some time.

Right now, they look like the Clippers from last season. Able to win games just based off talent, but will probably get blown out in a couple of games early in the season.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:36 am    Post subject:

There was a point in the second half where Vogel rolled out what I call a speed line up. It was something I was looking for and hoped to see, it seemed to be effective. I believe it was Shroeder, KCP, Caruso, Trezz, and AD (although you could insert LeBron, Kuz, or THT and still be just as fast). I’d like to see more of that when the game calls for it. I believe we have one of the fastest teams in the league and should take advantage of it.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 9:03 am    Post subject:

Thanks DB. Excellent write-up on a rusty, uninspired opening game.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 9:10 am    Post subject:

Thanks DB, as usual, great recap. I still want a signed autograph of your first book.

As I expected the Clippers showed up. Don't let their playoffs performance cause you to think that's who they are. They are a very good team with a new coach and system.

PG13 came to play and Kawhi was Kawhi. I didn't expect them to play as well as they did. Ty Lue is going to make a huge difference.

Not making excuses but the Lakers were a typical ring night team. For some reason when a team has a ring ceremony they're flat. The Lakers fought back and erased a 26 point deficit but never took the lead.

I said it before and I'm gonna say it again. I think the Sail Boat boys are the biggest hurdle the Lakers have to get over on the road to a repeat.

I think Bron was partially blame for the loss. He's a ball stopper. On one possession he held the ball the full 24 seconds.

We won't win without him and at times he needs to take over the game, be a closer. During the game, he has to involve more teammates than AD.

He's key to another Larry O'Brien.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:15 am    Post subject:

Perfect sequin jacket worn by the best owner in the NBA.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:30 am    Post subject:

Thanks DB!


JerryWest_44 wrote:
Perfect sequin jacket worn by the best owner in the NBA.


That jacket was noiiiiceeee!!
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:43 am    Post subject:

Oh one other positive in this game. The minutes for AD and Bron - 31 and 28. That says a lot right there. Frank is not going to push them early on, when they are still getting into shape. This is like preseason for the Lakers, and it will be the case at least until mid-January.

We need to keep their minutes in check this first month. Slowly work them up. Smart minute distribution by Frank with regards to his stars, but I wish we had run some more sets for THT.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:48 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Positives and Negatives I observed.

Positives:

Dennis Schroder looks like a very good 3rd option scorer. He is Rondo playoff level scorer every night. But just the scoring. Defensively when he gets engaged he is also a pest. I liked his game a lot, There is a negative I will mention in negative list

Trez looks like a beast around the basket offensively. The Clippers wanted to stop him and could not.

Negatives:

Bron looks in preseason mode. Bron's defense was not committed like last year. This was to be expected. He seemed like he missed a 100 layups.

Dennis is not Rondo as a playmaker, we already knew this. But it sticks out. He can break down a D great, he can shoot, layup etc, but he can not make post entry passes to AD or set up bigs. We need Bron to do that. We probably have to think about getting Marc Gasol on the 2nd unit or finding a PG.

Marc Gasol installs no fear in the paint defensively. Teams go right at him. This was not the case last year with McGee-Howard. We do not want to become a soft team.

We lack the togetherness that we did last year. I was observing the communications with AD and Dennis, and Bron and the guys. It is not the same. You do not see the togetherness that you saw early last year. Again, maybe this is to be expected but I think this is where you miss Danny Green types. He was a great chemistry guy.

Early, but we are seeing the side effects of losing Danny's team chemistry impact, not having Rondo's passing (post entry, lobs etc) and Howard's defense inside. It will be worrisome if in Feb 2021 we are still talking like that. It was to be expected, as those were key niche role players. The new guys are more talented but also do not have a niche.

Example:

Is Marc a starter who can anchor the middle or is he best as the 2nd unit's playmaker? We certainly could use a high IQ off the bench when Bron sits.

Is Dennis better served starting or off the bench? He had good chemistry with Trez, and was more aggressive when Bron sat. So why is he starting?

Wesley Matthews did not have the role he should on a team like this. We got him to replace Green, but he can not really do that off the bench, can he?


I could not help but wonder if Serge was like "hey fellas, just go at him" as a former team mate of Gasol's. It was truly pathetic to watch at times. I know it's just one game so I will limit this comment to the two preseason games vs the Suns and the first regular season game: He played like a weekend warrior guy who guzzles beer during a game, has two bad knees, a bad back, and can barely move. Just excruciating. This will be a problem if this does not change.
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