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RashardA
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Location: Santa Monica
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 Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2021 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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Trez is a delusional loser.
Hopefully he is one and done with the Lakers.
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LakerSD
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Joined: 10 Nov 2016
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| Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2021 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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If you didn’t see Harrell’s mistakes on defense that compromised Vogel’s scheme, then A) you didn’t watch the games or B) you didn’t pay attention to where the defensive breakdowns happened…
He was awful. There is a reason Vogel said take a seat for real now when the playoffs began. |
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MJST
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Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 26749
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| Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2021 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | We were the Number 1 Defensive team in the league. Harrell didn't compromise that, and gave us 13.5/6 off the bench in 22.9 MPG
THE PROBLEM with minutes... happened once we signed Drummond. Where Vogel said he'd play Gasol at backup 5 and Harrell at backup 4 and start Drummond. then never did. Constantly screwing around their minutes, and giving undeserved chances to Markieff Morris whom was giving us nothing on either end.
Prior to Vogel jerking around Harrell's minutes, he was putting up
15.3 PPG
6.8 REB
1.1 AST
0.7 STL
0.9 BLK
63.5% Field Goal
25.3 MPG
Off the bench for us! That is solid production for a backup 5 and in general.
Then Vogel started jerking around his minutes and role and his numbers dropped to
9.5 PPG
4.9 REB
1.0 AST
0.5 STL
0.6 BLK
57.5% Field Goal
17.4 MPG
MEANWHILE Vogel was giving Markieff Morris burn he didn't deserve while Markieff was putting up
6.9 PPG
4.1 REB
1.5 AST
37.2% Field Goal
23.6% Three Pointer
21.3 MPG
MEANWHILE Marc Gasol during that span
5.8 PPG
4.8 REB
2.5 AST
62.2% Field Goal
63.0% Three Pointer
So you look at that and tell me that Markieff deserved playtime over Harrell. Especially considering how well Harrell had been playing before Vogel jerked around and screwed with his minutes and role. It was VERY obvious to EVERYONE, that Harrell and Gasol should have been the ones getting the bench 4/5 minutes together and Morris should have been benched. But Vogel refused to do it, despite saying that it was precisely what he'd do!
So don't pull that "If harrell had just played better and played defense vogel would've played him...", while you're ignoring that Harrell was one of our best and most efficient players, and Vogel cut his minutes and role for a guy in Morris that not only wasn't playing defense, but was shooting 23% from three, when it was the one thing he was in to do.
THAT is on Vogel. Not Harrell. |
Requoting this for the "If Harrell had just played better defense, Vogel wouldn't have benched him" Vogel defenders.
The minutes/role screwing was Vogel's screw up, not Harrell's.
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Megaton
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hype
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Joined: 19 Nov 2007
Posts: 4389
Location: Lake Nacimiento
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| Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2021 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerSD wrote: | If you didn’t see Harrell’s mistakes on defense that compromised Vogel’s scheme, then A) you didn’t watch the games or B) you didn’t pay attention to where the defensive breakdowns happened…
He was awful. There is a reason Vogel said take a seat for real now when the playoffs began. |
Yeah, he was the one that was getting drastically outplayed by the supposedly "done" Marc Gasol who got inconsistent minutes all year. It was borderline pathetic how much he was being outplayed towards the end of the season and into the Playoffs.
In the beginning of the year I was hoping with proper defensive coaching he could at least become a solid defender since the tools are there but you watch him play with unlimited energy and effort on the offensive end then the majority of the time give zero eff's on the defensive end. It only got worse as the season went on as well, the offense got a little less and the porous defense was magnified. You're def. right though as it shouldn't have been difficult for even the most casual fan to notice. It's too bad because he clearly has the ability and talent but the lack of effort and his awful cry baby attitude has got me more then ready to never see him in a Lakers uniform again.
I agree with the Morris comments though as he was struggling 10 times worse before the Playoffs started but I think Vogel was praying he would catch fire again at some point but that backfired massively as it simply never happened. I wouldn't be surprised if there were issues behind the scenes with Trezz though at some point late in the season. Trezz deserves plenty of his own blame but there's no doubt I agree Vogel massively overplayed the hope that Morris would re-catch fire once again.
At the end of the day we ended this awful messed up season looking like a dumpster fire and you can rightfully spread blame all over the place. |
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roger_federer
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Joined: 01 Mar 2020
Posts: 3141
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| Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2021 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Trez and DS are the worst signings. said it on Day 1. They don't fit. Its funny how Rob 's Fans trying to pin this on Vogel |
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Laker's Fan
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Joined: 27 Jun 2002
Posts: 12907
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| Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2021 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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Trez is making me miss high character bigs like Dwight  .
Seriously though, not sure his teammates are going to miss him pointing the finger at them for his blown defensive assignments.
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13thOverallPick
Starting Rotation
Joined: 20 Dec 2013
Posts: 560
Location: Southern Cali
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| Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2021 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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| roger_federer wrote: | | Trez and DS are the worst signings. said it on Day 1. They don't fit. Its funny how Rob 's Fans trying to pin this on Vogel |
100% agree, just awful signings. Could have kept Green and Howard. Switch McGee for Gasol/Cousins.
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Lakers_Jester
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Joined: 17 Sep 2012
Posts: 5366
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| Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2021 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Worst part of our fan base is we bully our own teammates when we lose and when players fail to meet our expectations. No surprise that the players feel the need to clap back. Drummomd, Trez, Kuz, they all responding to whiney ass fans on social media. Sure the players might be flawed but people should take accountability for how they act over the internet to human beings that dont need to be talked down to by folks who have never even touched a basketball in a professional setting in their lives. |
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Lonzo-Lite
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Joined: 17 May 2011
Posts: 5102
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| Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2021 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerSD wrote: | https://twitter.com/hisandherlakers/status/1413937294520700930?s=21
Please don’t bring back this losing, lack of self awareness player. Don’t care if he is Klutch…LeGM has to see he can’t win with this guy on the team. |
Can’t see him back as a Laker after this.
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MJST
Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 26749
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| Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:26 am Post subject: |
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| Lakers_Jester wrote: | | Worst part of our fan base is we bully our own teammates when we lose and when players fail to meet our expectations. No surprise that the players feel the need to clap back. Drummomd, Trez, Kuz, they all responding to whiney ass fans on social media. Sure the players might be flawed but people should take accountability for how they act over the internet to human beings that dont need to be talked down to by folks who have never even touched a basketball in a professional setting in their lives. |
its not even when they fail to meet expectations. They can be playing well all season, and called "extremely valuable" to the team, but if they play bad in a pivotal moment, or have their minutes jerked around by the coach. They are blamed for it. And they'll ignore any other kind of logic or stats that disprove what they're saying, in order to keep hammering home a narrative that isn't backed up by fact. Or important stuff is ignored (like the team's main players being injured.. a disadvantage last year's team didn't have).
I can only imagine what it would be like dealing with those kinds of people every single day, that have grown so comfortable with their unjustified and often incorrect criticisms and narratives, that they'll get offended if they get checked/corrected by that player and they'll call that player unsportsmanlike
But our team thoughout those first portions of the season
The beginning of our season this year when AD missed 5 Games (prior to his big time injury that kept him out for 30.
2021 Lakers (AD misses 5 games)
Offense: 112.9 PPG
Defense: 105.8 PPG
Differential: 7.1 PPG (sitting comfortably at Number 1)
Field Goal: 48.5%
Opp Field Goal: 45%
Three Pointer: 35.9% (on 30.2 APG)
Opp Three Point: 34.3% (on 32.5 APG)
2020 Lakers (Same span of time AD misses 1 game)
Offense: 112.9 PPG
Defense: 103.9 PPG
Differential: 9.0 PPG (sitting comfortably at Number 1)
Field Goal: 48.5%
Opp Field Goal: 43.6%
Three Pointer: 35.7% (on 30.4 APG)
Opp Three Point: 33.5% (on 33.0 APG, welp there goes the narrative that Dwight and McGee intimidated people from going to the paint as much compared to the previous year)
So yeah, not that big a difference, despite our best defender missing 5 game as opposed to 1. Not to mention the level aD was playing at in 2020 vs 2021. Let's look at that too
AD in 2021(before injury and not in shape for season)
22.5 PPG
8.4 REB
3.0 AST
1.3 STL
1.8 BLK
53.3% Field Goal
29.3% Three Pointer
32.8 MPG
AD in 2020 (same span of time)
27.7 PPG
9.0 REB
3.3 AST
1.5 STL
2.7 BLK
50.7% Field Goal
33.3% Three Pointer
34.4 MPG
Stress to say, not only were our main guys not ready for the season, but they weren't playing at the same level they did in 2020. You can blame that on the fast turnaround for the season, but also AD missing 5 games before missing 30 is also a factor.
The REASON we got Harrell and Schroeder, was to be able to take some offensive load off of AD and LeBron's shoulders considering the fast season turnaround, and they successfully helped with that. Not to mention how our team was running like a well oiled machine and finding our groove, having won 7 Straight before AD got hurt, which snapped our win streak.
Now we eventually did go on another win streak, we found our groove once again and had won 4 straight.. know what snapped that win streak from being 5? LeBron got hurt.
Then for the next 17 Games(including the ATL game LeBron was hurt in) we needed to play without both AD and LeBron.
And we wound up going 7-10 during that stretch. But hey, you know who stepped up during that period of time? Everyone's favorite scapegoat Dennis Schroeder whom put up
17.3 PPG
3.4 REB
7.7 AST
1.5 STL
45.3% Field Goal
42.6% Three Pointer
86.5% Free Throw
33.1 MPG
Trying to keep us above water, and the fact we went 7-10 without LeBron and AD is a testament. How well do you think the 2019-2020 team would have done going 17 games without LeBron or AD? But that kind of stuff gets overlooked, wonder why.
So yeah, the differences in us as teams before AD got hurt, weren't so ginormous, and we were starting to really kick butt and on a winning streak before AD went out hurt.
These are the kind of things that matter. And they matter a HECK OF A LOT more than whatever narrative people try to spin like "Harrell would have played if he played defense" that has to ignore Morris's terrible defense and three point shooting for that argument to work.
Vogel screwed up by being stubborn and not going with the most obvious plan, and jerking around the minutes of players that had played very well for us. That... is on.. Vogel. Always has been.
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Lakers_Jester
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Joined: 17 Sep 2012
Posts: 5366
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| Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:43 am Post subject: |
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| ^Agree. We as Lakers fan are spoiled, and the consequence of that is you get the average fan throwing a tantrum when they dont get a championship. They go on social media and become keyboard warriors taking it out on whatever player has become their designated scapegoat. Then when our own players feel the need to defend themselves, the players are called "toxic." In reality, lets be honest, the vast majority of our fan base represented in social media is toxic af. Maybe that goes for social media in general, but Lakers being the biggest NBA fan base, that inherently makes us also one of the most toxic in social media as well. |
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vasashi17+
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Posts: 5676
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| Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:48 am Post subject: |
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Good discussion and another example is Danny Green’s fiancée getting death threats by Laker fanatics. These dudes chose public entertainment, so unfortunately public outlets such as social media will reach out to get em. But their families? Unless you’re a Kardashian, you didn’t position yourself to be placed in that type of scope. The fanatics need to leave the women and children alone.
As for Vogel, is it safe to say that he isn’t very good at managing his players and their egos. With the Wiz wanting to get their hands on Phil, I think it’s those type of coaches that make good HCs, cause you need to be relatable and have some type of established rapport with these young men.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sportingnews.com/us/amp/nba/news/frank-vogel-indiana-pacers-coach-job-security-nba-playoffs-larry-bird-lance-stephenson/1hs1uh967q72w1c0byjemq5u4b
And what is it specifically between Vogs & big men? From Indy to Orlando to LA, there’s always an issue with his frontline committee.
But I’m not going to place the blame entirely on coach. I mean someone hired dude and someone brought dude personnel that muddled up rotations. |
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zambia
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Joined: 09 Oct 2007
Posts: 1224
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| Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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| roger_federer wrote: | | Trez and DS are the worst signings. said it on Day 1. They don't fit. Its funny how Rob 's Fans trying to pin this on Vogel |
Marc Gasol played poorly offensively and defensively this year. He play was so bad, the Lakers had to promise Drum a starting position. Gasol then had the nerve to complain about going to the bench. If Gasol had been more consistent with good play. Then there’s no need for Drum, and everyone is happy with their minutes. |
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LakerSD
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Joined: 10 Nov 2016
Posts: 23804
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| Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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| vasashi17+ wrote: | Good discussion and another example is Danny Green’s fiancée getting death threats by Laker fanatics. These dudes chose public entertainment, so unfortunately public outlets such as social media will reach out to get em. But their families? Unless you’re a Kardashian, you didn’t position yourself to be placed in that type of scope. The fanatics need to leave the women and children alone.
As for Vogel, is it safe to say that he isn’t very good at managing his players and their egos. With the Wiz wanting to get their hands on Phil, I think it’s those type of coaches that make good HCs, cause you need to be relatable and have some type of established rapport with these young men.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sportingnews.com/us/amp/nba/news/frank-vogel-indiana-pacers-coach-job-security-nba-playoffs-larry-bird-lance-stephenson/1hs1uh967q72w1c0byjemq5u4b
And what is it specifically between Vogs & big men? From Indy to Orlando to LA, there’s always an issue with his frontline committee.
But I’m not going to place the blame entirely on coach. I mean someone hired dude and someone brought dude personnel that muddled up rotations. |
I’ll say this for Vogel: if the guy wasn’t particularly good at his job, LeKlutch would have had him gone before Xmas day 2020.
A few players have said how good he is at communicating, he was put in a very tough spot with 3 selfish players and an old vet way past his prime who just like guys before him couldn’t wrap around his head that he could no longer play the game at starter minutes. |
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Lakers_Jester
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Joined: 17 Sep 2012
Posts: 5366
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| Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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| zambia wrote: | | roger_federer wrote: | | Trez and DS are the worst signings. said it on Day 1. They don't fit. Its funny how Rob 's Fans trying to pin this on Vogel |
Marc Gasol played poorly offensively and defensively this year. He play was so bad, the Lakers had to promise Drum a starting position. Gasol then had the nerve to complain about going to the bench. If Gasol had been more consistent with good play. Then there’s no need for Drum, and everyone is happy with their minutes. |
I feel like Fizdale would shine in checking toxic egos. Hes no nonsense. He doesn't care to piss off a player, he gonna check you, and having Lbj have your back im sure will empower Fizdale even more. |
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epic_
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Joined: 23 Jan 2020
Posts: 11310
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| Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Lakers_Jester wrote: | | zambia wrote: | | roger_federer wrote: | | Trez and DS are the worst signings. said it on Day 1. They don't fit. Its funny how Rob 's Fans trying to pin this on Vogel |
Marc Gasol played poorly offensively and defensively this year. He play was so bad, the Lakers had to promise Drum a starting position. Gasol then had the nerve to complain about going to the bench. If Gasol had been more consistent with good play. Then there’s no need for Drum, and everyone is happy with their minutes. |
I feel like Fizdale would shine in checking toxic egos. Hes no nonsense. He doesn't care to piss off a player, he gonna check you, and having Lbj have your back im sure will empower Fizdale even more. |
Interesting point about Fiz.
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Lakers_Jester
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Joined: 17 Sep 2012
Posts: 5366
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| Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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| epic_ wrote: | | Lakers_Jester wrote: | | zambia wrote: | | roger_federer wrote: | | Trez and DS are the worst signings. said it on Day 1. They don't fit. Its funny how Rob 's Fans trying to pin this on Vogel |
Marc Gasol played poorly offensively and defensively this year. He play was so bad, the Lakers had to promise Drum a starting position. Gasol then had the nerve to complain about going to the bench. If Gasol had been more consistent with good play. Then there’s no need for Drum, and everyone is happy with their minutes. |
I feel like Fizdale would shine in checking toxic egos. Hes no nonsense. He doesn't care to piss off a player, he gonna check you, and having Lbj have your back im sure will empower Fizdale even more. |
Interesting point about Fiz. |
Aye. Could be perhaps why he was brought in, or maybe a convenient by product. But hes a guy that historically has shown no qualms about calling a spade a spade and its no secret this season's team had issues juggling egos. I'd even go as far as to say Im confident in Fjz being in Vogels ear advocating for certain players if Vogel starts slippin on rotations. Idk, hopefully Fizdale hasn't changed too much by the time we get him on our coaching bench at the start of next season. |
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BEazy
Star Player
Joined: 06 Nov 2013
Posts: 2691
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| Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Every fanbase has their bad eggs. It's part of the internet era we live in. I mean did you see how much crap the England players are getting from their fans? Death threats and all the likes are being used. So I mean it's unfair to make that kind statement about Laker fans just because a couple of fans on the internet are being sore losers. |
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vasashi17+
Star Player
Joined: 13 Dec 2019
Posts: 5676
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| Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerSD wrote: | | vasashi17+ wrote: | Good discussion and another example is Danny Green’s fiancée getting death threats by Laker fanatics. These dudes chose public entertainment, so unfortunately public outlets such as social media will reach out to get em. But their families? Unless you’re a Kardashian, you didn’t position yourself to be placed in that type of scope. The fanatics need to leave the women and children alone.
As for Vogel, is it safe to say that he isn’t very good at managing his players and their egos. With the Wiz wanting to get their hands on Phil, I think it’s those type of coaches that make good HCs, cause you need to be relatable and have some type of established rapport with these young men.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sportingnews.com/us/amp/nba/news/frank-vogel-indiana-pacers-coach-job-security-nba-playoffs-larry-bird-lance-stephenson/1hs1uh967q72w1c0byjemq5u4b
And what is it specifically between Vogs & big men? From Indy to Orlando to LA, there’s always an issue with his frontline committee.
But I’m not going to place the blame entirely on coach. I mean someone hired dude and someone brought dude personnel that muddled up rotations. |
I’ll say this for Vogel: if the guy wasn’t particularly good at his job, LeKlutch would have had him gone before Xmas day 2020.
A few players have said how good he is at communicating, he was put in a very tough spot with 3 selfish players and an old vet way past his prime who just like guys before him couldn’t wrap around his head that he could no longer play the game at starter minutes. |
I agree that it is a communication problem...but maybe between the coaching staff and the FO.
It’s odd to bring in players that have an understanding that they get to have starter status and given minutes only to slight other players and their role/PT.
I still feel Vogs got the defensive X&o chops to be our DC. But our HC? I just don’t think he has that element to himself. |
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epic_
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Joined: 23 Jan 2020
Posts: 11310
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| Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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Please opt in Trez! We love you!
(Guys, just saying since his salary would be a nice to have for potential deals).
But on a serious note. I think he was really struggling emotionally with his personal life. I actually think he'll play well next season.
Looking at game 3 again, even though he was benched, he was still hyped for certain plays. And he still had the nice foot shuffle routine with Bron. Maybe some more stuff will come out, but I don't think he was a locker room problem. Tbd what happens. But hopefully he opts in to give us more flexibility. I'm ok with trading him 
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MJST
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Posts: 26749
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| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 12:57 am Post subject: |
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| epic_ wrote: | Please opt in Trez! We love you!
(Guys, just saying since his salary would be a nice to have for potential deals).
But on a serious note. I think he was really struggling emotionally with his personal life. I actually think he'll play well next season.
Looking at game 3 again, even though he was benched, he was still hyped for certain plays. And he still had the nice foot shuffle routine with Bron. Maybe some more stuff will come out, but I don't think he was a locker room problem. Tbd what happens. But hopefully he opts in to give us more flexibility. I'm ok with trading him |
He was that way pretty much all year for us, even when Vogel screwed over his minutes. That's how you know people that try to pin the "Oh he's so selfish!!" on him, are embellishing and have no evidence whatsoever that he was selfish or a problem.
They have even less to go on than when they hate on Schroeder for wanting to start over Alex Caruso
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epic_
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Joined: 23 Jan 2020
Posts: 11310
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| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 1:17 am Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | epic_ wrote: | Please opt in Trez! We love you!
(Guys, just saying since his salary would be a nice to have for potential deals).
But on a serious note. I think he was really struggling emotionally with his personal life. I actually think he'll play well next season.
Looking at game 3 again, even though he was benched, he was still hyped for certain plays. And he still had the nice foot shuffle routine with Bron. Maybe some more stuff will come out, but I don't think he was a locker room problem. Tbd what happens. But hopefully he opts in to give us more flexibility. I'm ok with trading him |
He was that way pretty much all year for us, even when Vogel screwed over his minutes. That's how you know people that try to pin the "Oh he's so selfish!!" on him, are embellishing and have no evidence whatsoever that he was selfish or a problem.
They have even less to go on than when they hate on Schroeder for wanting to start over Alex Caruso |
I don't know enough about him to say. I'm purely speculating.
I'm just looking at his contract as being of value.
I don't think you should use that Alex example. Alex with LeBron has one of the highest net ratings. Dennis wasn't bad in the starting lineup, but I'll take Alex in the starting lineup with Dennis killing it from the bench.
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MJST
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| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 2:32 am Post subject: |
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| epic_ wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | epic_ wrote: | Please opt in Trez! We love you!
(Guys, just saying since his salary would be a nice to have for potential deals).
But on a serious note. I think he was really struggling emotionally with his personal life. I actually think he'll play well next season.
Looking at game 3 again, even though he was benched, he was still hyped for certain plays. And he still had the nice foot shuffle routine with Bron. Maybe some more stuff will come out, but I don't think he was a locker room problem. Tbd what happens. But hopefully he opts in to give us more flexibility. I'm ok with trading him |
He was that way pretty much all year for us, even when Vogel screwed over his minutes. That's how you know people that try to pin the "Oh he's so selfish!!" on him, are embellishing and have no evidence whatsoever that he was selfish or a problem.
They have even less to go on than when they hate on Schroeder for wanting to start over Alex Caruso |
I don't know enough about him to say. I'm purely speculating.
I'm just looking at his contract as being of value.
I don't think you should use that Alex example. Alex with LeBron has one of the highest net ratings. Dennis wasn't bad in the starting lineup, but I'll take Alex in the starting lineup with Dennis killing it from the bench. |
Lakers Periods without Schroeder but with Caruso
2/18 - 2/24
Lakers record 0-4
LeBron stats
25.3 PPG
7.5 REB
8.3 AST
0.8 STL
0.3 BLK
48.8% Field Goal
17.2% Three Pointer
66.7% Free Throw
35.4 MPG
Alex Caruso stats
4.0 PPG
2.8 REB
2.5 AST
1.3 STL
0.5 BLK
23.1% Field Goal
10.0% Three Pointer
75.0% Free Throw
23.2 MPG
Not so good. The stretch of games Caruso had in Schroeder's second absence was far better
Alex Caruso 6 game stretch
10.2 PPG
3.3 REB
4.5 AST
1.0 STL
0.2 BLK
44.0% Field Goal
41.2% Three Pointer(on 2.8 a game)
46.2% Free Throw
26.0 MPG
Let's compare that to Schroeder's 6 game stretch prior to needing to miss time
16.3 PPG
3.7 REB
9.0 AST
1.2 STL
0.0 BLK
48.2% Field Goal
32.0% Three Pointer
80.0% Free Throw
35.3 MPG
Now in order to get a level of consistency, let's look at what Schroeder did during that 30 game stretch after he came back(the first time) and what Caruso did during that same span of time.
Alex Caruso
6.5 PPG
3.3 REB
2.7 AST
1.2 STL
0.3 BLK
45.0% Field Goal
42.9% Three Pointer(on 2.2 a game)
63.8% Free Throw
21.4 MPG
Dennis Schroeder
16.7 PPG
3.4 REB
7.3 AST
1.4 STL
0.2 BLK
43.5% Field Goal
35.5% Three Pointer
86.5% Free Throw
33.3 MPG
Looks to me like a lot of people overrate Caruso, and underrate and undervalue Schroeder. Caruso was fine and reliable off the bench for the role of standing in a corner and waiting for a three to come his way. No different to how LeBron used Dellavadova. But because of this, people overrated Dellavadova too. Schroeder on the other hand, to take some offensive load from the team and be their 3rd option came through in that role very well. And for all the "Oh he's such a me first player! We need a point guard that can get assists!" he averaged 9.0 Assists and 7.3 Assists, in those instances.
And playing next to LeBron for the entire season, he averaged 5.8 assists. Which is a lot considering how often LeBron took upon defacto point guard roles.
So again, I think it's a case of Lakers fans overrating a role player whom was only asked to do one thing, and thinking it would translate over an entire season of being asked to do more against starters, where as they undervalue what another player that was asked to do more against starters brought, because they had a few moments of struggle in an otherwise solid season.
It's a tale as old as time unfortunately.
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Ksig
Star Player
Joined: 03 Dec 2016
Posts: 2126
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| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 4:13 am Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | epic_ wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | epic_ wrote: | Please opt in Trez! We love you!
(Guys, just saying since his salary would be a nice to have for potential deals).
But on a serious note. I think he was really struggling emotionally with his personal life. I actually think he'll play well next season.
Looking at game 3 again, even though he was benched, he was still hyped for certain plays. And he still had the nice foot shuffle routine with Bron. Maybe some more stuff will come out, but I don't think he was a locker room problem. Tbd what happens. But hopefully he opts in to give us more flexibility. I'm ok with trading him |
He was that way pretty much all year for us, even when Vogel screwed over his minutes. That's how you know people that try to pin the "Oh he's so selfish!!" on him, are embellishing and have no evidence whatsoever that he was selfish or a problem.
They have even less to go on than when they hate on Schroeder for wanting to start over Alex Caruso |
I don't know enough about him to say. I'm purely speculating.
I'm just looking at his contract as being of value.
I don't think you should use that Alex example. Alex with LeBron has one of the highest net ratings. Dennis wasn't bad in the starting lineup, but I'll take Alex in the starting lineup with Dennis killing it from the bench. |
Lakers Periods without Schroeder but with Caruso
2/18 - 2/24
Lakers record 0-4
LeBron stats
25.3 PPG
7.5 REB
8.3 AST
0.8 STL
0.3 BLK
48.8% Field Goal
17.2% Three Pointer
66.7% Free Throw
35.4 MPG
Alex Caruso stats
4.0 PPG
2.8 REB
2.5 AST
1.3 STL
0.5 BLK
23.1% Field Goal
10.0% Three Pointer
75.0% Free Throw
23.2 MPG
Not so good. The stretch of games Caruso had in Schroeder's second absence was far better
Alex Caruso 6 game stretch
10.2 PPG
3.3 REB
4.5 AST
1.0 STL
0.2 BLK
44.0% Field Goal
41.2% Three Pointer(on 2.8 a game)
46.2% Free Throw
26.0 MPG
Let's compare that to Schroeder's 6 game stretch prior to needing to miss time
16.3 PPG
3.7 REB
9.0 AST
1.2 STL
0.0 BLK
48.2% Field Goal
32.0% Three Pointer
80.0% Free Throw
35.3 MPG
Now in order to get a level of consistency, let's look at what Schroeder did during that 30 game stretch after he came back(the first time) and what Caruso did during that same span of time.
Alex Caruso
6.5 PPG
3.3 REB
2.7 AST
1.2 STL
0.3 BLK
45.0% Field Goal
42.9% Three Pointer(on 2.2 a game)
63.8% Free Throw
21.4 MPG
Dennis Schroeder
16.7 PPG
3.4 REB
7.3 AST
1.4 STL
0.2 BLK
43.5% Field Goal
35.5% Three Pointer
86.5% Free Throw
33.3 MPG
Looks to me like a lot of people overrate Caruso, and underrate and undervalue Schroeder. Caruso was fine and reliable off the bench for the role of standing in a corner and waiting for a three to come his way. No different to how LeBron used Dellavadova. But because of this, people overrated Dellavadova too. Schroeder on the other hand, to take some offensive load from the team and be their 3rd option came through in that role very well. And for all the "Oh he's such a me first player! We need a point guard that can get assists!" he averaged 9.0 Assists and 7.3 Assists, in those instances.
And playing next to LeBron for the entire season, he averaged 5.8 assists. Which is a lot considering how often LeBron took upon defacto point guard roles.
So again, I think it's a case of Lakers fans overrating a role player whom was only asked to do one thing, and thinking it would translate over an entire season of being asked to do more against starters, where as they undervalue what another player that was asked to do more against starters brought, because they had a few moments of struggle in an otherwise solid season.
It's a tale as old as time unfortunately. |
Dude you post in the most annoying, passive aggressive, holier-than-thou tone in every single post I read from you. You cherry pick random stats to fit your narrative and then throw inflammatory accusations out against anybody who might think different from you.
Just say your peace, without resorting to "That's how you know people that try to pin the "Oh he's so selfish!!" on him, are embellishing and have no evidence whatsoever that he was selfish or a problem." or even "So again, I think it's a case of Lakers fans overrating a role player whom was only asked to do one thing, and thinking it would translate over an entire season of being asked to do more against starters, where as they undervalue what another player that was asked to do more against starters brought, because they had a few moments of struggle in an otherwise solid season.
You think theres some weird meta conspiracy that lakersground is filled with trolls who are out to get your favorite players (god forbid people dont think BI, Randle, ZO, or whoever else you like aren't the second coming of Michael Jordan and have real flaws in their game), and theres no conceivable way that you're wrong in any of your beliefs. Its so incredibly petty to have to read this in almost every single one of your posts...does nobody else see this everyday?
How bout just look at the stats in the year that won us a freaking championship that had Caruso with the highest net rating paired with lebron over a whole season (best of any of his teammates in his career at one point), who also started in a GAME 6 FINALS GAME and HELPED WIN US A FINALS GAME AS A STARTER WITH HIS DEFENSE. Jeez. I've debated about posting this, but Ive said my peace . I won't continue this convo, just needed to get that off my chest. |
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