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governator
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 Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:19 am Post subject: |
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| DS is such a tough topic, I’m more in Yinoma corner that we need to preserve this asset because we are or we most likely will be a capped out team so upgrades gonna have to be via trade and for any big fish, you will need that $20m-ish salary to go out |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:48 am Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | DS is such a tough topic, I’m more in Yinoma corner that we need to preserve this asset because we are or we most likely will be a capped out team so upgrades gonna have to be via trade and for any big fish, you will need that $20m-ish salary to go out |
Okay, but somehow over the last month this concept has morphed from the idea that we need to keep Schroder for asset preservation into the idea that re-signing Schroder is asset creation. Let's suppose that Schroder manages to leverage us into paying him $24M for four years. From an asset preservation perspective, I get it. If he walks and signs with someone else as a free agent, we have no ability to replace him. Fine.
But that doesn't mean his contract would be a trade asset. In your example, if we want to trade for a big fish, we aren't going to get it done with Schroder's contract. That would just be ballast, and negative ballast at that. Unless Schroder makes a massive leap as a player, no one would want to trade for him at $24M per year. We aren't going to have any valuable draft assets for a long time, unless something bad happens and we involuntarily tank. Even then, we'd need to get lucky and avoid the Pelicans' rights.
As long as we don't get carried away into thinking that a bloated Schroder contract would be a trade asset, I'm fine with everything else that you folks are saying. I understand why it makes sense to pay him above market. I realize that he has leverage here. Let's just not kid ourselves that this is something more than necessity. It would be better if we found another team to overpay him in a sign-and-trade deal.
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governator
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| Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:55 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | governator wrote: | | DS is such a tough topic, I’m more in Yinoma corner that we need to preserve this asset because we are or we most likely will be a capped out team so upgrades gonna have to be via trade and for any big fish, you will need that $20m-ish salary to go out |
Okay, but somehow over the last month this concept has morphed from the idea that we need to keep Schroder for asset preservation into the idea that re-signing Schroder is asset creation. Let's suppose that Schroder manages to leverage us into paying him $24M for four years. From an asset preservation perspective, I get it. If he walks and signs with someone else as a free agent, we have no ability to replace him. Fine.
But that doesn't mean his contract would be a trade asset. In your example, if we want to trade for a big fish, we aren't going to get it done with Schroder's contract. That would just be ballast, and negative ballast at that. Unless Schroder makes a massive leap as a player, no one would want to trade for him at $24M per year. We aren't going to have any valuable draft assets for a long time, unless something bad happens and we involuntarily tank. Even then, we'd need to get lucky and avoid the Pelicans' rights.
As long as we don't get carried away into thinking that a bloated Schroder contract would be a trade asset, I'm fine with everything else that you folks are saying. I understand why it makes sense to pay him above market. I realize that he has leverage here. Let's just not kid ourselves that this is something more than necessity. It would be better if we found another team to overpay him in a sign-and-trade deal. |
Then find that sweet spot, a $18m or a $20m or maybe a $16m/$22m, like u said, it’s an asset/salary ballast or to ‘create’ cap space. None of us know how the future would regards DS’ salary if we do resign him, that’s why we’re all debating. Yinoma’s argument just make more sense to me since we will be capped out during Bron’s tenure |
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JUST-MING
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| Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:11 am Post subject: |
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| Why are we using the word ballast? Each time I read it, I think of the power adapter for a fluorescent light. |
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Halflife
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| Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:26 am Post subject: |
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| avery bradely would be good to kick tires on. hes still young. |
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epic_
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| Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:36 am Post subject: |
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| JUST-MING wrote: | | Why are we using the word ballast? Each time I read it, I think of the power adapter for a fluorescent light. |
I think of boats
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Last edited by epic_ on Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:10 am; edited 1 time in total |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:45 am Post subject: |
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| Halflife wrote: | | avery bradely would be good to kick tires on. hes still young. |
Something snapped with him and the Lakers after the Bubble. I’m not sure either side is eager for a reunion and IIRC he’s under contract? |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:06 am Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | Then find that sweet spot, a $18m or a $20m or maybe a $16m/$22m, like u said, it’s an asset/salary ballast or to ‘create’ cap space. None of us know how the future would regards DS’ salary if we do resign him, that’s why we’re all debating. Yinoma’s argument just make more sense to me since we will be capped out during Bron’s tenure |
Sure, but the problem is that we may not have any leverage to find the sweet spot at which the contract has asset value, and not just ballast value. My best guess is that the asset value would diminish rapidly if the annual salary got over $16M. We may be surprised when offers start flowing in a week, but I'd be surprised if any team rates him as a $20M player. I've been surprised before.
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LakerSD
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| Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:10 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | governator wrote: | | Then find that sweet spot, a $18m or a $20m or maybe a $16m/$22m, like u said, it’s an asset/salary ballast or to ‘create’ cap space. None of us know how the future would regards DS’ salary if we do resign him, that’s why we’re all debating. Yinoma’s argument just make more sense to me since we will be capped out during Bron’s tenure |
Sure, but the problem is that we may not have any leverage to find the sweet spot at which the contract has asset value, and not just ballast value. My best guess is that the asset value would diminish rapidly if the annual salary got over $16M. We may be surprised when offers start flowing in a week, but I'd be surprised if any team rates him as a $20M player. I've been surprised before. |
I would be shocked if someone offered $20M and if they did, that Exec would be out a year or so later. |
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epic_
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LakerSD
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| Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:18 am Post subject: |
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| epic_ wrote: | https://mobile.twitter.com/stephxghost/status/1419732388926693381/photo/1
Welcome back Dennis! |
“LeKlutch, please tell Pelinka I will take 4/84. Btw, is Rich Paul looking for new clients? Asking for a friend.” |
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Megaton
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LakerSD
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| Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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Just noticed your signature  |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerSD wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | governator wrote: | | Then find that sweet spot, a $18m or a $20m or maybe a $16m/$22m, like u said, it’s an asset/salary ballast or to ‘create’ cap space. None of us know how the future would regards DS’ salary if we do resign him, that’s why we’re all debating. Yinoma’s argument just make more sense to me since we will be capped out during Bron’s tenure |
Sure, but the problem is that we may not have any leverage to find the sweet spot at which the contract has asset value, and not just ballast value. My best guess is that the asset value would diminish rapidly if the annual salary got over $16M. We may be surprised when offers start flowing in a week, but I'd be surprised if any team rates him as a $20M player. I've been surprised before. |
I would be shocked if someone offered $20M and if they did, that Exec would be out a year or so later. |
I’m not expecting anyone else to offer DS $20 million. But even if DS doesn’t get another offer, I wouldn’t be shocked to see him cross his arms and wait for the Lakers to go back to their original offer. This could be a game of chicken that goes on a long time.
The only thing that might end the game of chicken is if we manage to land another point guard without needing DS in a sign-and-trade or we hard cap ourselves somehow. |
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Megaton
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CamReddish
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| Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | LakerSD wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | governator wrote: | | Then find that sweet spot, a $18m or a $20m or maybe a $16m/$22m, like u said, it’s an asset/salary ballast or to ‘create’ cap space. None of us know how the future would regards DS’ salary if we do resign him, that’s why we’re all debating. Yinoma’s argument just make more sense to me since we will be capped out during Bron’s tenure |
Sure, but the problem is that we may not have any leverage to find the sweet spot at which the contract has asset value, and not just ballast value. My best guess is that the asset value would diminish rapidly if the annual salary got over $16M. We may be surprised when offers start flowing in a week, but I'd be surprised if any team rates him as a $20M player. I've been surprised before. |
I would be shocked if someone offered $20M and if they did, that Exec would be out a year or so later. |
I’m not expecting anyone else to offer DS $20 million. But even if DS doesn’t get another offer, I wouldn’t be shocked to see him cross his arms and wait for the Lakers to go back to their original offer. This could be a game of chicken that goes on a long time.
The only thing that might end the game of chicken is if we manage to land another point guard without needing DS in a sign-and-trade or we hard cap ourselves somehow. |
What are you talking about? There isn't going to be an game of chicken. The big money dries up in a day or two in NBA free agency. If he doesn't get what he wants, he backs himself into a corner waiting for the Lakers to pay him. If he waits, money runs out around the NBA and the Lakers gian leverage donthe negotiations.
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kikanga
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| Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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| epic_ wrote: | | JUST-MING wrote: | | Why are we using the word ballast? Each time I read it, I think of the power adapter for a fluorescent light. |
I think of boats |
I think of Liangelo
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activeverb
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| Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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| LBJ23 wrote: | | What are you talking about? There isn't going to be an game of chicken. The big money dries up in a day or two in NBA free agency. If he doesn't get what he wants, he backs himself into a corner waiting for the Lakers to pay him. If he waits, money runs out around the NBA and the Lakers gian leverage donthe negotiations. |
We shall see. |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:36 am Post subject: |
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Regardless of what has happened, I am open to Dennis coming back on a deal that makes sense for LA, and if Dennis is also open to leading the 2nd unit. I do not think in professional sports at this level you can get all personal about stuff that happens in contract talks. Dennis is a business man as well. It is what it is. If the market shows him he needed to take that 80-4 type of deal, then if he comes back to the Lakers and they can get him on for something like 60-3. Personally, I rather have KCP, Caruso, Dennis at a combined 40M, than Westbrook. We can always move Kuz and the 23rd pick for a shooter, which is something we really really need.
The lineups that also tend to work really well for Vogel are AD-Bron, with 3 guards. AD-Bron + THT-Caruso-Dennis. AD-Bron + KCP-THT-Caruso. Etc. Now you make a move where maybe you get Kuz+23 out for a volume quality 3 point shooter, and you have improved your team without losing talent.
Again, I do not believe in Dennis as a leader/PG type, but I think he has value, and we should not be opposed to bringing him back. I would target first Lowry via S+T, but if that dries up, I would definitely look at bringing Dennis back on a contract that makes sense. What makes "sense" is something Rob thinks he can move in a future deal 1-2 years from now. Only he would know the market like that. The Westbrook stuff is scaring me to the point where I even want Dennis back lol, so long as Dennis' new contract does not impede the Lakers in keeping Caruso. The Caruso-Dennis-KCP type of 3 guard lineup works well for Vogel. Even if you look at Vogel in Indiana, he likes those small combo guards. Add THT now, maybe an improved THT, then you trade for a designated sniper from 3 point land, and you do not have the same holes as last year. Oh, and AD has to be play at least half the minutes at the 5. Without question, that is our identity as a team. |
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unleasHell
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 5:18 am Post subject: |
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In the playoffs, he proved to me why he is a great 6th man and a lousy starter, hopefully the Lakers can do a sign and trade, so they don't lose him por nada and can get that third star...!
Do it Rob...!
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scout_0
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:55 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | Odd move. I know Schroder has his fans here, but he's an undersized point guard who isn't really a three point shooter (he shot an good percentage last year in the regular season, but that was a career best and he regressed in the playoffs). He's an average passer and a below average defender. He's better than someone like Dion Waiters, for sure. He can score with some consistency. But he also said that he didn't want to play for the Lakers. He had attitude issues in the past, which makes it worrisome that the Thunder are thinking about trading him for the equivalent of a box of Cracker Jacks.
I don't see the fit. But okay, I guess. |
This guy actually saw it coming .... |
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MJST
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:00 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Silver Screen and Roll
@LakersSBN
Despite many reports to the contrary, it sounds like Dennis Schröder returning to the Lakers next season is still very much a possibility. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:01 am Post subject: |
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| scout_0 wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | Odd move. I know Schroder has his fans here, but he's an undersized point guard who isn't really a three point shooter (he shot an good percentage last year in the regular season, but that was a career best and he regressed in the playoffs). He's an average passer and a below average defender. He's better than someone like Dion Waiters, for sure. He can score with some consistency. But he also said that he didn't want to play for the Lakers. He had attitude issues in the past, which makes it worrisome that the Thunder are thinking about trading him for the equivalent of a box of Cracker Jacks.
I don't see the fit. But okay, I guess. |
Remember though, when it was all the chips on the table in the playoffs, AC/THT/KCP performed even worse (especially from 3, and meager scoring outputs), meaning, Dennis, while flawed, was literally the best option we had.
Now, I wouldn't pay him 25m+. I wouldn't pay him 20m. I would pay him in the 15-17m range, on a 2+1 deal (team option) to make him tradeable. But there may be some other reasons the Lakers may have to overpay. We shall soon find out.
This guy actually saw it coming .... |
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MJST
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:31 am Post subject: |
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AC THT Kuzma and KCP getting passes for their performance throughout the entire series. But Dennis getting eviscerated for one bad game.
We can compare
Dennis Shcroeder
Game 1: 14/1/3
Game 2: 24/3/3
Game 3: 20/3/4/2
Game 4: 8/4/3
Game 5: 0/4/1 (this is the performance people hold against him)
Game 6: 20/3/3/1 (this is the bounceback performance that gets ignored)
Total: 14/3/2 on 40% from the field and 30% from three. Numbers VERY off-set by Game 5.
Games 1-4 16.5/3/2 on 46.8% field goal and 37.5% from three
Game 6 20/3/3/1 42% field goal 33% from three
So yeah Game 5 was his only really bad game, and it's the game that gets used against him, so much so his bounce back game gets completely ignored.
Now let's look at everyone else
Kyle Kuzma (6 Games)
6.3 PPG
3.8 REB
1.2 AST
29.2% Field Goal
17.4% Three Point
66.7% Free Throws
Alex Caruso (6 Games)
5.8 PPG
1.3 REB
0.5 AST
36.8% Field Goal
29.4% Three Point
100.0% Free Throws (on 0.3 a game)
KCP
6.2 PPG
2.8 REB
1.0 AST
37.9% Field Goal
21.1% Three Point
100.0% Free Throws (on 1 a game)
THT
6.5 PPG
3.5 REB
0.5 AST
45.8% Field Goal
20.0% Three Point
60.0% Free Throws
yeah so outside of LeBron, AD and Schroeder. The only other person that really brought it was the 19 year old THT....
Meanwhile Kuzma gets constant "just wait! He'll show he's a star... look what he can do when he starts!"
And Caruso gets the "Oh much better fit than Schroeder, understands the game better and a much better defender!"
And KCP "But his defense.. and he came through in the bubble!"
Lakers fans continue playing a game of "You don't know what you got till its gone" when they keep ignoring and crucifying the Players that play well because of one bad game.. but keep giving excuses and favoritism for the players that had a terrible series.
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waterman40
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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Not a lot for chatter about landing spots for DS.
We might be looking at getting Buddy, and then more or less standing pat with a re-signed DS.
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