Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90306 Location: Formerly Known As 24
Posted: Fri May 07, 2021 3:15 pm Post subject:
C M B wrote:
I (bleep) hate 2 step verification and never use special characters in my passwords if I don't have to.
I know _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52654 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Fri May 07, 2021 4:25 pm Post subject:
C M B wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
C M B wrote:
I (bleep) hate 2 step verification and never use special characters in my passwords if I don't have to.
I know
I just added a number.
69 was way too easy. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
It's a highly enjoyable 80s pop culture gem, yes, but is or isn't it a quality movie to boot? I've been swayed against it in the past after seeing every rapper on MTV Cribs have the Scarface poster on their walls. These are not exactly arbiters of taste, the rappers. It makes it tawdry to think of it as a potential piece of fluff that people simply enjoy instead of a work that stands the test of time as one of the greatest in its genre. Then again, when I watch it in full, in one full sitdown, my faith is reaffirmed that it got a lot less credit from critics than it deserved when it was new, even if the woman playing Tony's mama was only 7 years older than Pacino in reality. It got panned for the violence and portrayals of Cuban-Americans, etc. It used the name of a respected B/W, old Hollywood era film and was merely a sleazy 80s flick that only brought with it lovers of violence and gore and profanity and a main character who appeared to want to F his sister before his friend was able to woo her with his leesard tongue routine. Tony's basketball teammate got his head chainsawed into as his eye went buggy. Angel Fernandez. There, otoh, are some well-done and tense scenes like Frank and Mel's come-uppance, the carbomb chase scene, and Ton's downward spiral as he sucked up a mountain of yeyo and showed his house guests his "lil friend". What's more controversial, to call it a fine, heady cinematic update of an old tale or a slick 80s violence fest? _________________ GOAT MAGIC REEL SEDALE TRIBUTE EDDIE DONX!
Another movie one. They shoulda left this scene in in T2. Or at least trim off the last annoying part w/ Sarah and John. They were the worst parts of the movie.
It's a highly enjoyable 80s pop culture gem, yes, but is or isn't it a quality movie to boot? I've been swayed against it in the past after seeing every rapper on MTV Cribs have the Scarface poster on their walls. These are not exactly arbiters of taste, the rappers. It makes it tawdry to think of it as a potential piece of fluff that people simply enjoy instead of a work that stands the test of time as one of the greatest in its genre. Then again, when I watch it in full, in one full sitdown, my faith is reaffirmed that it got a lot less credit from critics than it deserved when it was new, even if the woman playing Tony's mama was only 7 years older than Pacino in reality. It got panned for the violence and portrayals of Cuban-Americans, etc. It used the name of a respected B/W, old Hollywood era film and was merely a sleazy 80s flick that only brought with it lovers of violence and gore and profanity and a main character who appeared to want to F his sister before his friend was able to woo her with his leesard tongue routine. Tony's basketball teammate got his head chainsawed into as his eye went buggy. Angel Fernandez. There, otoh, are some well-done and tense scenes like Frank and Mel's come-uppance, the carbomb chase scene, and Ton's downward spiral as he sucked up a mountain of yeyo and showed his house guests his "lil friend". What's more controversial, to call it a fine, heady cinematic update of an old tale or a slick 80s violence fest?
It's great - the Oliver Stone script with De Palma's direction is a fun, counterintuitive pairing that really works. I was listening to the LexG movie podcast episode on De Palma recently, and while I never looked up to Tony Montana like he admits he did as a kid and which too many choads do now, if you can divorce Scarface from the idiots who love it for the dumbest reasons, it's a whip crack take on the gangster picture that balances well between a straightforward rise and fall morality tale and a sly wink at how much dark fun it all is.
So while I like Phantom of the Paradise, screw the revisionist film hipsterism that elevates lesser De Palma - especially the mediocre The Fury - over a near masterpiece like Scarface.
New De Palma Top Five:
Carlito's Way Carrie Body Double*
Scarface Hi, Mom!
* If you want to swap Blow Out for Body Double, I respect it. _________________ Under New Management
Another movie one. They shoulda left this scene in in T2. Or at least trim off the last annoying part w/ Sarah and John. They were the worst parts of the movie.
Terrible opinion. Sarah Connor rocks. _________________ Under New Management
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29281 Location: La La Land
Posted: Sat May 08, 2021 11:04 am Post subject:
non-player zealot wrote:
It's a highly enjoyable 80s pop culture gem, yes, but is or isn't it a quality movie to boot? I've been swayed against it in the past after seeing every rapper on MTV Cribs have the Scarface poster on their walls. These are not exactly arbiters of taste, the rappers.
I don't group everyone in that profession as tasteless idiots. Although, of course, many are.
In terms of Scarface being overrated or not. The answer is obvious if you just watch it. "The eyes, NPZ, then never lie."
FWIW, I feel similarly about the newest Joker movie. I watched it. Thought it was pretty average. Didn't have any strong feelings about it either way.
Then I saw what type of people were raving about it online and why. And I thought less of the movie. _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”
Last edited by kikanga on Sat May 08, 2021 12:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52654 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Sat May 08, 2021 12:05 pm Post subject:
non-player zealot wrote:
Scarface 1983 is or is not overrated as a movie.
It's a highly enjoyable 80s pop culture gem, yes, but is or isn't it a quality movie to boot? I've been swayed against it in the past after seeing every rapper on MTV Cribs have the Scarface poster on their walls. These are not exactly arbiters of taste, the rappers. It makes it tawdry to think of it as a potential piece of fluff that people simply enjoy instead of a work that stands the test of time as one of the greatest in its genre. Then again, when I watch it in full, in one full sitdown, my faith is reaffirmed that it got a lot less credit from critics than it deserved when it was new, even if the woman playing Tony's mama was only 7 years older than Pacino in reality. It got panned for the violence and portrayals of Cuban-Americans, etc. It used the name of a respected B/W, old Hollywood era film and was merely a sleazy 80s flick that only brought with it lovers of violence and gore and profanity and a main character who appeared to want to F his sister before his friend was able to woo her with his leesard tongue routine. Tony's basketball teammate got his head chainsawed into as his eye went buggy. Angel Fernandez. There, otoh, are some well-done and tense scenes like Frank and Mel's come-uppance, the carbomb chase scene, and Ton's downward spiral as he sucked up a mountain of yeyo and showed his house guests his "lil friend". What's more controversial, to call it a fine, heady cinematic update of an old tale or a slick 80s violence fest?
I rewatched it a couple of years ago for the first time since probably in mid 90s and was stunned by what an absolute POS movie it was in the context of time. It was laughably ridiculous in the way it doesn’t stand up. It almost was like a poorly done parody of an 80’s crime drama. It was like watching Miami Vice with foul language. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
I love Scarface, I think it’s great as a film. I also appreciate how it has permeated pop culture in a way few other films have, and doing so without trading its artistic aim.
Another movie one. They shoulda left this scene in in T2. Or at least trim off the last annoying part w/ Sarah and John. They were the worst parts of the movie.
Another movie one. They shoulda left this scene in in T2. Or at least trim off the last annoying part w/ Sarah and John. They were the worst parts of the movie.
Joined: 15 Nov 2006 Posts: 19864 Location: Prarie & Manchester, high above the western sideline
Posted: Sat May 08, 2021 4:53 pm Post subject:
DaMuleRules wrote:
non-player zealot wrote:
Scarface 1983 is or is not overrated as a movie.
It's a highly enjoyable 80s pop culture gem, yes, but is or isn't it a quality movie to boot? I've been swayed against it in the past after seeing every rapper on MTV Cribs have the Scarface poster on their walls. These are not exactly arbiters of taste, the rappers. It makes it tawdry to think of it as a potential piece of fluff that people simply enjoy instead of a work that stands the test of time as one of the greatest in its genre. Then again, when I watch it in full, in one full sitdown, my faith is reaffirmed that it got a lot less credit from critics than it deserved when it was new, even if the woman playing Tony's mama was only 7 years older than Pacino in reality. It got panned for the violence and portrayals of Cuban-Americans, etc. It used the name of a respected B/W, old Hollywood era film and was merely a sleazy 80s flick that only brought with it lovers of violence and gore and profanity and a main character who appeared to want to F his sister before his friend was able to woo her with his leesard tongue routine. Tony's basketball teammate got his head chainsawed into as his eye went buggy. Angel Fernandez. There, otoh, are some well-done and tense scenes like Frank and Mel's come-uppance, the carbomb chase scene, and Ton's downward spiral as he sucked up a mountain of yeyo and showed his house guests his "lil friend". What's more controversial, to call it a fine, heady cinematic update of an old tale or a slick 80s violence fest?
I rewatched it a couple of years ago for the first time since probably in mid 90s and was stunned by what an absolute POS movie it was in the context of time. It was laughably ridiculous in the way it doesn’t stand up. It almost was like a poorly done parody of an 80’s crime drama. It was like watching Miami Vice with foul language.
Yup. I saw Scarface before it became a thug life trope. Then I watched it again after a solid 10 years of hip hop idolatry. I thought it was really stupid both times. _________________ http://chickhearn.ytmnd.com/
It's a highly enjoyable 80s pop culture gem, yes, but is or isn't it a quality movie to boot? I've been swayed against it in the past after seeing every rapper on MTV Cribs have the Scarface poster on their walls. These are not exactly arbiters of taste, the rappers. It makes it tawdry to think of it as a potential piece of fluff that people simply enjoy instead of a work that stands the test of time as one of the greatest in its genre. Then again, when I watch it in full, in one full sitdown, my faith is reaffirmed that it got a lot less credit from critics than it deserved when it was new, even if the woman playing Tony's mama was only 7 years older than Pacino in reality. It got panned for the violence and portrayals of Cuban-Americans, etc. It used the name of a respected B/W, old Hollywood era film and was merely a sleazy 80s flick that only brought with it lovers of violence and gore and profanity and a main character who appeared to want to F his sister before his friend was able to woo her with his leesard tongue routine. Tony's basketball teammate got his head chainsawed into as his eye went buggy. Angel Fernandez. There, otoh, are some well-done and tense scenes like Frank and Mel's come-uppance, the carbomb chase scene, and Ton's downward spiral as he sucked up a mountain of yeyo and showed his house guests his "lil friend". What's more controversial, to call it a fine, heady cinematic update of an old tale or a slick 80s violence fest?
It's great - the Oliver Stone script with De Palma's direction is a fun, counterintuitive pairing that really works. I was listening to the LexG movie podcast episode on De Palma recently, and while I never looked up to Tony Montana like he admits he did as a kid and which too many choads do now, if you can divorce Scarface from the idiots who love it for the dumbest reasons, it's a whip crack take on the gangster picture that balances well between a straightforward rise and fall morality tale and a sly wink at how much dark fun it all is.
So while I like Phantom of the Paradise, screw the revisionist film hipsterism that elevates lesser De Palma - especially the mediocre The Fury - over a near masterpiece like Scarface.
New De Palma Top Five:
Carlito's Way Carrie Body Double*
Scarface Hi, Mom!
* If you want to swap Blow Out for Body Double, I respect it.
Sound takes. Did you like that one Dressed To Kill (1980), the one between Carrie and Tony? It got a lot of praise for its camera movements and chase scenes at walking speed thru museums and such. Corrado liked it for sure because it had a then-probably highly risque shower scene featuring Angie Dickinson working by herself, for herself. It's kinda obscure now and I only saw it once many years after it was new (tho I knew about it from it's inclusion in the 1984 horror doc called "Terror In The Aisles" feat Donald Pleasance and Nancy Allen). I thought the most interesting and certainly the timeliest part w/ a long Donahue segment from the late 70s that they showed Michael Caine watching on TV and, in the show, Phil had TQ people (LGBTQ) as a panel. One of the guests had a lot of things to say about how gender-blended people think and perceive themselves that it was amazing to me to think of it being a 40+ yr old segment.
I liked DePalma because he took risks like that and had the gravitas to do in your face scenes w/ nudity back then. Think opening scene of Carrie in 1976. He had a vision. I ultimately agree w/ you that Scarface 83 was a good rise/fall character flick with a more current depiction of gangster criminals in the late 70s to mid 80s period. Tony types were the street gangster that James Cagney portrayed in the 30s (he even cites Cagney/Bogart). Pacino WAS Tony. That's gotta be one of, if not his greatest chameleon role. You never question him being Latin instead of Italian, tho the tan helps.
Spielberg filmed a tiny perspective shot in the final shootout where a hitman w/ long hair is shown at eye level sliding down the side of a couch after being shot. DePalma said his own crew doted over his buddy Spielberg in his cameo appearance on the set. I think the chainsaw and Frank/Mel/Ernie scenes are the two top ones of many. Absolutely iconic scenes and many more where those came from. Critics like Ebert who hated violence for violence's sake (Friday 13th style violence) didn't use the violence against it, which is refreshing to hear today. Siskel was Siskel, tho.
Another movie one. They shoulda left this scene in in T2. Or at least trim off the last annoying part w/ Sarah and John. They were the worst parts of the movie.
Terrible opinion. Sarah Connor rocks.
Get-out...
Men like you... Rolleyes, aow muh Gawd... She was good in T2, I'll retract my mistake in the prior post. I wasn't a fan of the last flick, however, and not because it attempted hard to be woke. At least T2 had a much better script and plot.
kikanga, I don't mean to besmirch all rappers. I'm an old school fan. I meant the more contemporary ones who did nothin but the money/ho's songs. The early rappers were storytellers. I meant the doinks that usually went on MTV Cribs to display their dough as if it hasn't turned them soft and stripped any vitality they may have had before they came up. Getting and spending, we lay waste our powers. And rockers fall into the same trap. They become establishment if the establishment lets them in. _________________ GOAT MAGIC REEL SEDALE TRIBUTE EDDIE DONX!
I sense that the “cheesiness” in Scarface is there by design. Everything from the characters to the music to the fashion is a commentary on the excessive and decadent climate of its time. I agree with the praise of Stones’s script. The dialogue is sharp and the characters are well fleshed. Very Macbeth/Shakespearean at times. But also nicely underplayed by its loud portrayal of 80s debauchery. Tony M is the perfect foil to Pacino’s previous turn as young crime lord in The Godfather. Corleone is understated and measured while Montana is brash and miscalculating. Though both are driven by their vision of the American Dream, you could say. I must admit, I’m often torn as far as what performance I like more.
the music to the fashion is a commentary on the excessive and decadent climate of its time.
The primary themesong was called "Push It To The Limit".
Tony did buy a Porsche, but it was a 928. The same car Joel's dad had in Risky Business. He would've bought one w/ more power than that as a push it to the limit character, but that's minor. You could argue that he got it to get the girl. She didn't like The Creampuff. _________________ GOAT MAGIC REEL SEDALE TRIBUTE EDDIE DONX!
It's a highly enjoyable 80s pop culture gem, yes, but is or isn't it a quality movie to boot? I've been swayed against it in the past after seeing every rapper on MTV Cribs have the Scarface poster on their walls. These are not exactly arbiters of taste, the rappers. It makes it tawdry to think of it as a potential piece of fluff that people simply enjoy instead of a work that stands the test of time as one of the greatest in its genre. Then again, when I watch it in full, in one full sitdown, my faith is reaffirmed that it got a lot less credit from critics than it deserved when it was new, even if the woman playing Tony's mama was only 7 years older than Pacino in reality. It got panned for the violence and portrayals of Cuban-Americans, etc. It used the name of a respected B/W, old Hollywood era film and was merely a sleazy 80s flick that only brought with it lovers of violence and gore and profanity and a main character who appeared to want to F his sister before his friend was able to woo her with his leesard tongue routine. Tony's basketball teammate got his head chainsawed into as his eye went buggy. Angel Fernandez. There, otoh, are some well-done and tense scenes like Frank and Mel's come-uppance, the carbomb chase scene, and Ton's downward spiral as he sucked up a mountain of yeyo and showed his house guests his "lil friend". What's more controversial, to call it a fine, heady cinematic update of an old tale or a slick 80s violence fest?
It's great - the Oliver Stone script with De Palma's direction is a fun, counterintuitive pairing that really works. I was listening to the LexG movie podcast episode on De Palma recently, and while I never looked up to Tony Montana like he admits he did as a kid and which too many choads do now, if you can divorce Scarface from the idiots who love it for the dumbest reasons, it's a whip crack take on the gangster picture that balances well between a straightforward rise and fall morality tale and a sly wink at how much dark fun it all is.
So while I like Phantom of the Paradise, screw the revisionist film hipsterism that elevates lesser De Palma - especially the mediocre The Fury - over a near masterpiece like Scarface.
New De Palma Top Five:
Carlito's Way Carrie Body Double*
Scarface Hi, Mom!
* If you want to swap Blow Out for Body Double, I respect it.
Sound takes. Did you like that one Dressed To Kill (1980), the one between Carrie and Tony? It got a lot of praise for its camera movements and chase scenes at walking speed thru museums and such. Corrado liked it for sure because it had a then-probably highly risque shower scene featuring Angie Dickinson working by herself, for herself. It's kinda obscure now and I only saw it once many years after it was new (tho I knew about it from it's inclusion in the 1984 horror doc called "Terror In The Aisles" feat Donald Pleasance and Nancy Allen). I thought the most interesting and certainly the timeliest part w/ a long Donahue segment from the late 70s that they showed Michael Caine watching on TV and, in the show, Phil had TQ people (LGBTQ) as a panel. One of the guests had a lot of things to say about how gender-blended people think and perceive themselves that it was amazing to me to think of it being a 40+ yr old segment.
I liked DePalma because he took risks like that and had the gravitas to do in your face scenes w/ nudity back then. Think opening scene of Carrie in 1976. He had a vision. I ultimately agree w/ you that Scarface 83 was a good rise/fall character flick with a more current depiction of gangster criminals in the late 70s to mid 80s period. Tony types were the street gangster that James Cagney portrayed in the 30s (he even cites Cagney/Bogart). Pacino WAS Tony. That's gotta be one of, if not his greatest chameleon role. You never question him being Latin instead of Italian, tho the tan helps.
Spielberg filmed a tiny perspective shot in the final shootout where a hitman w/ long hair is shown at eye level sliding down the side of a couch after being shot. DePalma said his own crew doted over his buddy Spielberg in his cameo appearance on the set. I think the chainsaw and Frank/Mel/Ernie scenes are the two top ones of many. Absolutely iconic scenes and many more where those came from. Critics like Ebert who hated violence for violence's sake (Friday 13th style violence) didn't use the violence against it, which is refreshing to hear today. Siskel was Siskel, tho.
The opening Angie Dickinson section of Dressed to Kill is great as a hornier Psycho riff. The museum seduction scene is beautiful - the kind of breathtaking, visceral stuff I favor in movies over the narrative and dramaturgical bits that make for better television. But unlike Psycho, I don't think the remainder of DtK lives up to its excellent first third with the nonsense that follows. *spoiler alert* Michael Caine as a self-loathing, would-be trans woman murdering beautiful cis women he can never be as pretty as *end spoilers* is loathsome enough for its day, but the greater cinema sin is the Nancy Allen/Rick Gordon sleuthing stuff comes across as really bland.
I prefer the Giallo schlock slasher from Lucio Fulci, The New York Ripper (1981), to DtK because it takes the piss out of the mini-genre of NYC slashers - the movie's serial killer talks in a Donald Duck voice! And for a wonderfully stupid reason! - while ratcheting up the misanthropic and misogynistic ugliness above and beyond what even the Lustigs, Ferraras, and De Palmas were doing.
Re: Ebert and Scarface, he apparently liked the De Palma movie over Godfather II and reluctantly included the latter in his Great Movies series of books out of a sense of duty to the film's fans more so than out of any great love for Coppola's sequel. _________________ Under New Management
"Normalize not bringing up a relatable story about about yourself when other people are telling you their stories; just listen." - Some Moron
Let me just sit here in silence nodding after you finish your anecdote to affirm to you that I really heard you. A perfect way to hold a conversation. _________________ Under New Management
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