NBA Season COVID-19 Thread (**No politics or racial/ethnic remarks or personal insults**)
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governator
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2021 4:57 am    Post subject:

C M B wrote:
fansincemagic wrote:


I mean even the most genuine sincere question about vaccines and treatment is translated as "anti-vaxx gaslighting" on this site.


No, they're not, and they are few and far between.


It's been a year and a half, vaccines been out since december 2020, billions of doses have been administered and everybody can already read the data, guess you can debate the sincerity of questioning
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2021 11:48 am    Post subject:

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/32355685/los-angeles-becomes-3rd-nba-city-pass-sweeping-covid-19-vaccine-mandate

Something to keep an eye on... any players will have to have had their 2nd shot (or only shot, if JNJ) for 2 weeks.

On the 28th at media day, Kent Bazemore said that he had just gotten his first shot, and would get the second in "about two weeks", which is standard. That would mean that he wouldn't be "fully vaccinated" and able to play in LA until about one week into the season.

I know Rob said the whole team would be "fully vaccinated" by opening night, but he may have just meant that everybody will have had both shots. From a public health perspective, and in terms of this mandate, you're not "fully vaccinated" until 14 days have passed. Don't be surprised if Bazemore has to sit out the first few games of the season.
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mad55557777
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2021 1:16 pm    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
mad55557777 wrote:
https://abc7.com/health/la-city-council-approves-covid-vaccine-mandate-for-indoor-spaces/11089189/

LA full indoor mandate. guess that means 2 less games for Kyrie and zero games for Kyrie in the Finals if the Nets play the Lakers.


Lol.

Check that, they actually only apply to home team players….
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2021 4:48 pm    Post subject:

mad55557777 wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
mad55557777 wrote:
https://abc7.com/health/la-city-council-approves-covid-vaccine-mandate-for-indoor-spaces/11089189/

LA full indoor mandate. guess that means 2 less games for Kyrie and zero games for Kyrie in the Finals if the Nets play the Lakers.


Lol.

Check that, they actually only apply to home team players….


IMO if I had to guess i'd say even though your first statement might not be true on opening night it will be by the end of the season and a good amount of others teams will join the Nets and Warriors with a strict no tolerance vaccine mandate for all players.

I hope i'm wrong and things just continue to improve but with winter coming and the new very strict vaccine mandates for la county I feel it's inevitable to be implemented at some point this season for the Lakers especially.

Thankfully, we don't have to deal with the extra drama as Laker fans.. That is going to wear on the Nets team imo after getting questions from the media all season long at every stop.
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mad55557777
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2021 12:02 pm    Post subject:

hype wrote:
mad55557777 wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
mad55557777 wrote:
https://abc7.com/health/la-city-council-approves-covid-vaccine-mandate-for-indoor-spaces/11089189/

LA full indoor mandate. guess that means 2 less games for Kyrie and zero games for Kyrie in the Finals if the Nets play the Lakers.


Lol.

Check that, they actually only apply to home team players….


IMO if I had to guess i'd say even though your first statement might not be true on opening night it will be by the end of the season and a good amount of others teams will join the Nets and Warriors with a strict no tolerance vaccine mandate for all players.

I hope i'm wrong and things just continue to improve but with winter coming and the new very strict vaccine mandates for la county I feel it's inevitable to be implemented at some point this season for the Lakers especially.

Thankfully, we don't have to deal with the extra drama as Laker fans.. That is going to wear on the Nets team imo after getting questions from the media all season long at every stop.

i don't see what other city that is going to follow through with this. Portland maybe? Philly? MIL? Detroit?
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2021 1:30 pm    Post subject:

And we’re back…

Per Shams

Celtics' Jaylen Brown has tested positive for coronavirus, team says. Brown is in quarantine.

https://twitter.com/shamscharania/status/1446585320150011904?s=21
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vasashi17+
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2021 1:38 pm    Post subject:

TDRock wrote:
And we’re back…

Per Shams

Celtics' Jaylen Brown has tested positive for coronavirus, team says. Brown is in quarantine.

https://twitter.com/shamscharania/status/1446585320150011904?s=21


FYI: Kyrie & Jaylen are both VPs for the NBPA and I’m sure they’ll be fighting the fines for nonvaxxed players in vaccine mandated local markets.

https://nbpa.com/leadership

Quote:
Shams: City Hall official says Irving is cleared to practice at home, but still not able to play in games at Barclays Center until the All-NBA guard fulfills vaccine requirement.

New York City has determined the Brooklyn Nets‘ practice facility, HSS Training Center, is a private office building – clearing Nets All-Star Kyrie Irving to practice at home, City Hall official tells @TheAthletic @Stadium.


Quote:
NBPA executive director Michele Roberts is pushing back against the report that players forced to miss games due to local COVID-19 vaccine mandates won't be paid for those games. According to Roberts, the Players Association never agreed to this measure, and since the league hasn't mandated being vaccinated, players shouldn't face fines for being unvaccinated.

"They've been reporting that we've agreed that if a player who was not able to play because of his non-vaccination status, they could be docked [pay]. We did not agree," Roberts said, via the New York Daily News. "The league's position is that they can. We'll see. If we get to that point, we'll see. ... Right now, we've agreed that if a player breaks protocols, he can be disciplined to include some taxing of his comp. But not being vaccinated -- because it's not mandatory -- in and of itself should not lead to any discipline."

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nbpas-michele-roberts-says-nba-shouldnt-fine-players-forced-to-miss-games-due-to-non-vaccination-status/amp/


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2021 4:01 pm    Post subject:

This makes me wonder what Karl Malone's reaction would have been to this pandemic in 1991.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2021 4:25 pm    Post subject:

mad55557777 wrote:
hype wrote:
mad55557777 wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
mad55557777 wrote:
https://abc7.com/health/la-city-council-approves-covid-vaccine-mandate-for-indoor-spaces/11089189/

LA full indoor mandate. guess that means 2 less games for Kyrie and zero games for Kyrie in the Finals if the Nets play the Lakers.


Lol.

Check that, they actually only apply to home team players….


IMO if I had to guess i'd say even though your first statement might not be true on opening night it will be by the end of the season and a good amount of others teams will join the Nets and Warriors with a strict no tolerance vaccine mandate for all players.

I hope i'm wrong and things just continue to improve but with winter coming and the new very strict vaccine mandates for la county I feel it's inevitable to be implemented at some point this season for the Lakers especially.

Thankfully, we don't have to deal with the extra drama as Laker fans.. That is going to wear on the Nets team imo after getting questions from the media all season long at every stop.

i don't see what other city that is going to follow through with this. Portland maybe? Philly? MIL? Detroit?


I have no idea for sure I just know if there's any large spikes once in the middle of Winter or other counties start taking on the more strict vaccine mandates then it will be like a domino affect. One thing i've learned over all this in the last year or two is that you have to expect the unexpected and I do know our Country can not afford and likely will not accept another complete shut down. Just an opinion though.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 2:26 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Kyrie returns to practice but Steve Nash tells reporters that Nets realize they will play games without Kyrie: ‘We recognize he's not playing in home games. We are going to have to for sure play without him this year.’

https://mobile.twitter.com/NotoriousOHM/status/1447317536672940034
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 4:00 pm    Post subject:

kwase wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
kwase wrote:
I haven't been on this site for awhile, but I'd like to ask a favor for those worried about what's in the vaccine and refuse to take it. The food we eat in this country is loaded with hormones, steroids, pesticides and many other poisons. A potato should not be the size of a melon. Chicken legs should not be the size of turkey legs. A dozen eggs should not be the same color. There's no such thing as seedless fruit. America is #5 in cancer and #1 in obesity. Those of us up in age who remember how an apple pie tasted when we were kids should know that the food now tastes horrible. Can those of you who are obviously very careful about what you put in your body please start a petition and write your local congressperson to stop killing us and do a full scale investigation into the garbage that we are eating every day. As someone who travels abroad often I promise you that the food in this country is nothing short of disgusting. I see a lot of people out there who are against the vaccine because they believe it will do them harm, but I don't hear anybody taking a stand against the well known poison that's in our food, making us obese and sick, dependent on prescription medicine and sending us to an early grave.


i think it is hopeless here
i am not sure whether there are now better standards for organic foods.
if you want safe, you probably need to grow your own food/animals and raise your own fish in stainless tanks.

it was not funny when i found partially hydrogenated oils in every brand of ice cream that i checked.

i would like to know where you are talking about.
for seafood, i read that the mediterrean and the baltic are filthy.
farm raised fish are eating scary stuff.
even before covid, i stopped eating shrimp in restaurants because so much shrimp is now raised in india and vietnam - no thanks
i am not even going to comment on the ocean near china
not sure about south america, but you have australia left.



The freshest and best food I've experienced was in Thailand and the Caribbean. The fruit, chicken and seafood in the Caribbean is amazing. The Thai people are very particular about food being fresh. They will stay up all night to prepare what they will sell the next day and everything is from local farms. I always get sick when returning from those places and eating the food from here for the first week or so. I'm planning to retire in Thailand and I'm pretty sure it will add a few extra years to my life just on the food alone compared to what I'd be eating here. There's a reason Asian people are known for having amazing skin and a youthful appearance. It's also very warm there, which causes your skin to remove toxins through sweat.


My main reason for writing that post was I saw a guy give an interview on YouTube telling people not to trust the vaccine while he was smoking a cigarette. If you're a health nut, vegan and exercise daily I can see why you'd be concerned about what's in your body. But if you drink, smoke, eat fast food and don't workout then I don't get what you're worried about because those things will kill you a lot quicker than a vaccine.


so thailand and caribbean. i like garoupa, so caribbean is the place.

a little surprised to hear about thailand. a lot of their seafood is raised, and i would worry about the safety of the environment and the feed given to the seafood.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 4:45 pm    Post subject:

gng930 wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:


i dont trust the fda or the public health people or big pharma
i think big pharma forced their experimental technologies for the vaccine when there were more well proven options with long term effects pretty well understood.

...

short term effects of these covid vaccines have been very very minimal.

while i only develop PPE, many of my friends run clinical trials for a living.
this is one of many website for finding clinical trials: https://www.clinicaltrialsandme.com/resources/how-long-do-clinical-trials-take/

as stated for just the phase 3 duration of trials: "The length of study for phase 3 clinical trials is usually 1 to 4 years. This phase involves 300 to 3,000 patients, with tests designed to determine the drug's longer-term effects."

any idiot can see the numbers are much larger and duration is much shorter.
i see no need to say any more.


From what I understand mRNA vaccines can be produced much more quickly and that was the driving force for the decision to incorporate into the COVID vaccine and also for its research funding as a whole for well over a decade

Obviously there's no long-term safety data yet on the COVID vaccine but mRNA vaccines have been tested in humans for longer:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(17)31665-3/fulltext

It was only a phase I trial and probably never went past that because there simply isn't huge demand for another rabies vaccine.

Based on your other practices and arguments, you obviously play things safe and require a high burden of proof to support your decisions (probably appropriate for someone who develops PPE). I think the danger is when that turns into paranoia. Your accusation towards the Pfizer CEO pretty much says it all. Many could argue the CEO would be maligned for cutting the line and it was a PR move. Neither could ever be fully substantiated; the difference is that one of those does not contribute to disinformation that puts public health at risk. You painted it as a refusal when it wasn't even suggested that way in your very own link and when presented with evidence to the contrary, you followed-up with a claim (he was waiting to see how others reacted to the vaccine) that really can't be disproven. That in a nutshell has been the flow of many anti-vax arguments.

You could spin it as that we are taking part in the largest clinical trial in history for a vaccine. I could counterargue that we would otherwise be part of the largest observational study in history on the virulence and long-term effects of COVID. Although there are still unknowns about both, I think there is more overwhelmingly dangerous evidence for one over the other so far. I could state that by contributing to the withholding of treatment what you are doing is a larger-scale version of the Tuskegee experiment. See how it easy it is to invoke a completely baseless and sensationalist spin?


this is perhaps the most well thought-out response i have seen. i may not agree with everything, but it is well thought-out without categorily claiming anything without basis.

i dont want to get banned again, so i will just clarify myself once and be done.

i am absolutely NOT anti vax. i am glad there are mrna and adenovirus vaccines. it is making my life safer. in the last 3 years, beyond pfizer vaccine, i have had annual flu shots, mmr vaccine (hong kong had measles outbreak before my trip) and shingles vaccine (that uses a similar adjuvant as the novavax vaccine).

furthermore, if anyone is running around without vaccination being exposed to many people, they are idiots. if they want to be unvaccinated, they need to be very isolated. and they are even bigger idiots if they run around exposed unvaccinated and without masks.
when i discuss things here, i am not talking about these idiots who may have been essentially brainwashed. anyone who runs around exposed without vaccination (and without masks) are putting their family and themselves at risk. as far as i am concerned, these people cannot be helped. we just have to wait for them to catch covid and develop a reasonable amount of immunity from catching it. it may overload the medical system but it is hopeless arguing with them.

and i agree vaccination is the best option out there right now for anyone that is not isolating themselves from the world. anything else would be nuts

what i am upset about is that there should be more choices in vaccines instead of the most unproven technologies. if BARDA funded other vaccines beyond fancy stuff like mrna and adenovirus and moth cell based protein, it would make people like me much more happy getting the shot. it would also increase the acceptance by people who are very skeptical. and there are many such people. a group of friends and i (while extremely isolated and using 99% PPE in the market) waited and waited and waited for the gsk/novavax protein vaccine - until we could not wait anymore and got pfizer because of one single clotting case for novavax during the trials.

why am i upset at BARDA (US agency giving $ for covid vaccine), because they choose to give the money to all the latest fancy technologies. one of the problem is that the traditional vaccine manufacturers are smaller companies unlike the pfizer's of the world. i remember that they did not even bother trying to get the money. but it is the government's responsibility to tell at least one of them to make a more traditional vaccine for covid - one that would be more trusted for cautious people.

why am i upset at FDA, because they perpetuated an vaccine efficacy thinking based on preventing any type of infection instead of preventing serious cases like death and hospitalization. AS A RESULT, the GSK vaccine that 'only' had 70% efficacy against infection (for over 55 or 65) was SHELVED because of public pressure of 70% efficacy for any infection. it should have been evaluated for efficacy against serious illness - what does it matter if we get flu like symptons for a few days/weeks. this GSK protein vaccine could have been available around sept or even the summer, but GSK decided to redo their trials with a stronger vaccine (~90% against infection). imagine how many more cautious people would have opted for a traditional protein based vaccine if it was available and highly effective against serious disease?

what i am suggesting is more a 'market-based' solution than the fda's one-size-fits-all big government solution. give people choice so they feel safer and more empowered.

you want to convince nervous parents to allow their 1-12 year olds to get a vaccine, the most conservative vaccine approaches (protein or deactivated virus) would have been the best solution.

on your point regarding mrna vaccine being able to be developed and ramped earlier. i absolutely agree. however BARDA funded many vaccines. why not fund some of the most conversative vaccine approaches like deactivated virus vaccine. it would take a few more months, but it could well have been available by summer. and with american adjuvant (additive to improve performance) technology, the vaccine can have much higher efficacies than the chinese vaccines.

about the pfizer ceo, first, it is not central to the point but just an illustrative example as smart people have serious concerns. second, leaders (like biden did) get the vaccine in front of cameras to show it is safe to the public. the ceo of pfizer could easily have had such a press conference to lead by example. so sorry, i dont buy your argument.

regarding the largest trial in human history, the vaccines were not fda approved until very recently. we had been under emergency use authorization. that makes it much more of a clinical trial than anything else.

hope this clarifies what i was saying and does not get me banned.


Last edited by cal1piggy on Thu Oct 14, 2021 8:20 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:24 pm    Post subject:

we didnt even hesitate to get vaccinated and though I will get my son vaxed when its available it is definitely something I am not 100% comfortable with.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:26 pm    Post subject:

Halflife wrote:
we didnt even hesitate to get vaccinated and though I will get my son vaxed when its available it is definitely something I am not 100% comfortable with.



my comments are for adults. no comment about children.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:38 pm    Post subject:

Kyrie is the NBA's Kanye West.
Watch him retire this year.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:45 am    Post subject:

cal1piggy wrote:
gng930 wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:


i dont trust the fda or the public health people or big pharma
i think big pharma forced their experimental technologies for the vaccine when there were more well proven options with long term effects pretty well understood.

...

short term effects of these covid vaccines have been very very minimal.

while i only develop PPE, many of my friends run clinical trials for a living.
this is one of many website for finding clinical trials: https://www.clinicaltrialsandme.com/resources/how-long-do-clinical-trials-take/

as stated for just the phase 3 duration of trials: "The length of study for phase 3 clinical trials is usually 1 to 4 years. This phase involves 300 to 3,000 patients, with tests designed to determine the drug's longer-term effects."

any idiot can see the numbers are much larger and duration is much shorter.
i see no need to say any more.


From what I understand mRNA vaccines can be produced much more quickly and that was the driving force for the decision to incorporate into the COVID vaccine and also for its research funding as a whole for well over a decade

Obviously there's no long-term safety data yet on the COVID vaccine but mRNA vaccines have been tested in humans for longer:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(17)31665-3/fulltext

It was only a phase I trial and probably never went past that because there simply isn't huge demand for another rabies vaccine.

Based on your other practices and arguments, you obviously play things safe and require a high burden of proof to support your decisions (probably appropriate for someone who develops PPE). I think the danger is when that turns into paranoia. Your accusation towards the Pfizer CEO pretty much says it all. Many could argue the CEO would be maligned for cutting the line and it was a PR move. Neither could ever be fully substantiated; the difference is that one of those does not contribute to disinformation that puts public health at risk. You painted it as a refusal when it wasn't even suggested that way in your very own link and when presented with evidence to the contrary, you followed-up with a claim (he was waiting to see how others reacted to the vaccine) that really can't be disproven. That in a nutshell has been the flow of many anti-vax arguments.

You could spin it as that we are taking part in the largest clinical trial in history for a vaccine. I could counterargue that we would otherwise be part of the largest observational study in history on the virulence and long-term effects of COVID. Although there are still unknowns about both, I think there is more overwhelmingly dangerous evidence for one over the other so far. I could state that by contributing to the withholding of treatment what you are doing is a larger-scale version of the Tuskegee experiment. See how it easy it is to invoke a completely baseless and sensationalist spin?


this is perhaps the most well thought-out response i have seen. i may not agree with everything, but it is well thought-out without categorily claiming anything without basis.

i dont want to get banned again, so i will just clarify myself once and be done.

i am absolutely NOT anti vax. i am glad there are mrna and adenovirus vaccines. it is making my life safer. in the last 3 years, beyond pfizer vaccine, i have had annual flu shots, mmr vaccine (hong kong had measles outbreak before my trip) and shingles vaccine (that uses a similar adjuvant as the novavax vaccine).

furthermore, if anyone is running around without vaccination being exposed to many people, they are idiots. if they want to be unvaccinated, they need to be very isolated. and they are even bigger idiots if they run around exposed unvaccinated and without masks.
when i discuss things here, i am not talking about these idiots who may have been essentially brainwashed. anyone who runs around exposed without vaccination (and without masks) are putting their family and themselves at risk. as far as i am concerned, these people cannot be helped. we just have to wait for them to catch covid and develop a reasonable amount of immunity from catching it. it may overload the medical system but it is hopeless arguing with them.

and i agree vaccination is the best option out there right now for anyone that is not isolating themselves from the world. anything else would be nuts

what i am upset about is that there should be more choices in vaccines instead of the most unproven technologies. if BARDA funded other vaccines beyond fancy stuff like mrna and adenovirus and moth cell based protein, it would make people like me much more happy getting the shot. it would also increase the acceptance by people who are very skeptical. and there are many such people. a group of friends and i (while extremely isolated and using 99% PPE in the market) waited and waited and waited for the gsk/novavax protein vaccine - until we could not wait anymore and got pfizer because of one single clotting case for novavax during the trials.

why am i upset at BARDA (US agency giving $ for covid vaccine), because they choose to give the money to all the latest fancy technologies. one of the problem is that the traditional vaccine manufacturers are smaller companies unlike the pfizer's of the world. i remember that they did not even bother trying to get the money. but it is the government's responsibility to tell at least one of them to make a more traditional vaccine for covid - one that would be more trusted for cautious people.

why am i upset at FDA, because they perpetuated an vaccine efficacy thinking based on preventing any type of infection instead of preventing serious cases like death and hospitalization. AS A RESULT, the GSK vaccine that 'only' had 70% efficacy against infection (for over 55 or 65) was SHELVED because of public pressure of 70% efficacy for any infection. it should have been evaluated for efficacy against serious illness - what does it matter if we get flu like symptons for a few days/weeks. this GSK protein vaccine could have been available around sept or even the summer, but GSK decided to redo their trials with a stronger vaccine (~90% against infection). imagine how many more cautious people would have opted for a traditional protein based vaccine if it was available and highly effective against serious disease?

what i am suggesting is more a 'market-based' solution than the fda's one-size-fits-all big government solution. give people choice so they feel safer and more empowered.

you want to convince nervous parents to allow their 1-12 year olds to get a vaccine, the most conservative vaccine approaches (protein or deactivated virus) would have been the best solution.

on your point regarding mrna vaccine being able to be developed and ramped earlier. i absolutely agree. however BARDA funded many vaccines. why not fund some of the most conversative vaccine approaches like deactivated virus vaccine. it would take a few more months, but it could well have been available by summer. and with american adjuvant (additive to improve performance) technology, the vaccine can have much higher efficacies than the chinese vaccines.

about the pfizer ceo, first, it is not central to the point but just an illustrative example as smart people have serious concerns. second, leaders (like biden did) get the vaccine in front of cameras to show it is safe to the public. the ceo of pfizer could easily have had such a press conference to lead by example. so sorry, i dont buy your argument.

regarding the largest trial in human history, the vaccines were not fda approved until very recently. we had been under emergency use authorization. that makes it much more of a clinical trial than anything else.

hope this clarifies what i was saying and does not get me banned.


Obviously you are well-versed in the topic and one would be incredibly naive to think that politics (well-intentioned or not) didn't play a role in their eventual direction. It also shouldn't surprise anybody that the decision-making process has been far from smooth as evidence by the initial handling of the pandemic. However, this is what we have and as someone who has your understanding, there is a responsibility to not convey misinformation.

I'll leave it at this because as you yourself have acknowledged that arguing is often hopeless.

FACT: Biden was 78 years old when he got the vaccine and it was first made available to him. Bourla is less than 60. Bourla got his when it was made available to those in his age group without significant health problems.
SPECULATION: Bourla was hesitant and "refused" to get the vaccine initially.
FACT: You are using the above speculation to drive your narrative.

As I've stated, it doesn't bother me as much if people choose to forego the vaccine based on genuine personal beliefs and/or based facts. It bothers me most when people perpetuate unfounded speculation or blatantly false information leading to vaccine hesitancy. Your decision to even invoke the word "refuse" unveils a heavy bias.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:59 pm    Post subject:

gng930 wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
gng930 wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:


i dont trust the fda or the public health people or big pharma
i think big pharma forced their experimental technologies for the vaccine when there were more well proven options with long term effects pretty well understood.

...

short term effects of these covid vaccines have been very very minimal.

while i only develop PPE, many of my friends run clinical trials for a living.
this is one of many website for finding clinical trials: https://www.clinicaltrialsandme.com/resources/how-long-do-clinical-trials-take/

as stated for just the phase 3 duration of trials: "The length of study for phase 3 clinical trials is usually 1 to 4 years. This phase involves 300 to 3,000 patients, with tests designed to determine the drug's longer-term effects."

any idiot can see the numbers are much larger and duration is much shorter.
i see no need to say any more.


From what I understand mRNA vaccines can be produced much more quickly and that was the driving force for the decision to incorporate into the COVID vaccine and also for its research funding as a whole for well over a decade

Obviously there's no long-term safety data yet on the COVID vaccine but mRNA vaccines have been tested in humans for longer:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(17)31665-3/fulltext

It was only a phase I trial and probably never went past that because there simply isn't huge demand for another rabies vaccine.

Based on your other practices and arguments, you obviously play things safe and require a high burden of proof to support your decisions (probably appropriate for someone who develops PPE). I think the danger is when that turns into paranoia. Your accusation towards the Pfizer CEO pretty much says it all. Many could argue the CEO would be maligned for cutting the line and it was a PR move. Neither could ever be fully substantiated; the difference is that one of those does not contribute to disinformation that puts public health at risk. You painted it as a refusal when it wasn't even suggested that way in your very own link and when presented with evidence to the contrary, you followed-up with a claim (he was waiting to see how others reacted to the vaccine) that really can't be disproven. That in a nutshell has been the flow of many anti-vax arguments.

You could spin it as that we are taking part in the largest clinical trial in history for a vaccine. I could counterargue that we would otherwise be part of the largest observational study in history on the virulence and long-term effects of COVID. Although there are still unknowns about both, I think there is more overwhelmingly dangerous evidence for one over the other so far. I could state that by contributing to the withholding of treatment what you are doing is a larger-scale version of the Tuskegee experiment. See how it easy it is to invoke a completely baseless and sensationalist spin?


this is perhaps the most well thought-out response i have seen. i may not agree with everything, but it is well thought-out without categorily claiming anything without basis.

i dont want to get banned again, so i will just clarify myself once and be done.

i am absolutely NOT anti vax. i am glad there are mrna and adenovirus vaccines. it is making my life safer. in the last 3 years, beyond pfizer vaccine, i have had annual flu shots, mmr vaccine (hong kong had measles outbreak before my trip) and shingles vaccine (that uses a similar adjuvant as the novavax vaccine).

furthermore, if anyone is running around without vaccination being exposed to many people, they are idiots. if they want to be unvaccinated, they need to be very isolated. and they are even bigger idiots if they run around exposed unvaccinated and without masks.
when i discuss things here, i am not talking about these idiots who may have been essentially brainwashed. anyone who runs around exposed without vaccination (and without masks) are putting their family and themselves at risk. as far as i am concerned, these people cannot be helped. we just have to wait for them to catch covid and develop a reasonable amount of immunity from catching it. it may overload the medical system but it is hopeless arguing with them.

and i agree vaccination is the best option out there right now for anyone that is not isolating themselves from the world. anything else would be nuts

what i am upset about is that there should be more choices in vaccines instead of the most unproven technologies. if BARDA funded other vaccines beyond fancy stuff like mrna and adenovirus and moth cell based protein, it would make people like me much more happy getting the shot. it would also increase the acceptance by people who are very skeptical. and there are many such people. a group of friends and i (while extremely isolated and using 99% PPE in the market) waited and waited and waited for the gsk/novavax protein vaccine - until we could not wait anymore and got pfizer because of one single clotting case for novavax during the trials.

why am i upset at BARDA (US agency giving $ for covid vaccine), because they choose to give the money to all the latest fancy technologies. one of the problem is that the traditional vaccine manufacturers are smaller companies unlike the pfizer's of the world. i remember that they did not even bother trying to get the money. but it is the government's responsibility to tell at least one of them to make a more traditional vaccine for covid - one that would be more trusted for cautious people.

why am i upset at FDA, because they perpetuated an vaccine efficacy thinking based on preventing any type of infection instead of preventing serious cases like death and hospitalization. AS A RESULT, the GSK vaccine that 'only' had 70% efficacy against infection (for over 55 or 65) was SHELVED because of public pressure of 70% efficacy for any infection. it should have been evaluated for efficacy against serious illness - what does it matter if we get flu like symptons for a few days/weeks. this GSK protein vaccine could have been available around sept or even the summer, but GSK decided to redo their trials with a stronger vaccine (~90% against infection). imagine how many more cautious people would have opted for a traditional protein based vaccine if it was available and highly effective against serious disease?

what i am suggesting is more a 'market-based' solution than the fda's one-size-fits-all big government solution. give people choice so they feel safer and more empowered.

you want to convince nervous parents to allow their 1-12 year olds to get a vaccine, the most conservative vaccine approaches (protein or deactivated virus) would have been the best solution.

on your point regarding mrna vaccine being able to be developed and ramped earlier. i absolutely agree. however BARDA funded many vaccines. why not fund some of the most conversative vaccine approaches like deactivated virus vaccine. it would take a few more months, but it could well have been available by summer. and with american adjuvant (additive to improve performance) technology, the vaccine can have much higher efficacies than the chinese vaccines.

about the pfizer ceo, first, it is not central to the point but just an illustrative example as smart people have serious concerns. second, leaders (like biden did) get the vaccine in front of cameras to show it is safe to the public. the ceo of pfizer could easily have had such a press conference to lead by example. so sorry, i dont buy your argument.

regarding the largest trial in human history, the vaccines were not fda approved until very recently. we had been under emergency use authorization. that makes it much more of a clinical trial than anything else.

hope this clarifies what i was saying and does not get me banned.


Obviously you are well-versed in the topic and one would be incredibly naive to think that politics (well-intentioned or not) didn't play a role in their eventual direction. It also shouldn't surprise anybody that the decision-making process has been far from smooth as evidence by the initial handling of the pandemic. However, this is what we have and as someone who has your understanding, there is a responsibility to not convey misinformation.

I'll leave it at this because as you yourself have acknowledged that arguing is often hopeless.

FACT: Biden was 78 years old when he got the vaccine and it was first made available to him. Bourla is less than 60. Bourla got his when it was made available to those in his age group without significant health problems.
SPECULATION: Bourla was hesitant and "refused" to get the vaccine initially.
FACT: You are using the above speculation to drive your narrative.

As I've stated, it doesn't bother me as much if people choose to forego the vaccine based on genuine personal beliefs and/or based facts. It bothers me most when people perpetuate unfounded speculation or blatantly false information leading to vaccine hesitancy. Your decision to even invoke the word "refuse" unveils a heavy bias.


first of all, i want to reiterate - i firmly believe that for regular people who are not hiding out and isolating themselves from the public, vaccination is the best course of action. in fact, anything else is plain idiotic.

regarding bourla, again, it really was an example and not critical to the point (at least to me). in fact my group of friends, including specialists who manage clinical trials and public health scientists (i am the only black sheep business person in the group), laugh often about this 'event'. frankly whether he did or not does not matter. it has been many months and at least hundreds of millions of shots later, short term side effects is really pretty minimal. anyway, i dont want to harp on this and get myself banned again for nothing.

recognizing the political element of this, i will mention perhaps the most unfortunate fda decision - telling the public that masks etc was not needed early in 2020. instead of leveling with the country and telling people to do what they can do in a time of scarcity, they opted for telling people masks were not needed.

finally, since you are obviously in the field, i want to highlight the point of the less-fancy vaccines that have high efficacy against serious disease but less than 80%/90% against any infection.

despite speculation, no outsider can prove whether the fda pressured GSK to withdraw the 'inferior' protein vaccine (~70% for elderly in phase 3 for any infection but more effective against serious disease). unfortunately there is a stark conflict here between the public interest and personal interest. IF the fda discouraged the use of this vaccine (even though it met the 50% goal), then i think it was likely a mistake. if this vaccine became available a few months after mrna vaccines were in mass use (thereby achieving public health's primary goal), the public would have had a choice of a vaccine that is more acceptable to scared people and worried parents. it is much easier to sell the public on a vaccine that uses the SAME TECHNOLOGY as the flu vaccine people take every year.

to give you a little perspective from worried people, my friends and i were looking pretty hard into getting into mexico to 'somehow' buy an injection of the sinovac denatured virus vaccine. we figured that would buy us ~6 months of time for the novovax/gsk (newer version) vaccines to mature and be proven out. ultimately we chickened out worrying about whether the chinese vaccine in mexico would be contaminated, fake etc. so most of us got the pfizer shot in late july/august, which we determined to be the best choice out of what is available. everyone except one person now has had 2 shots with 42 days between shots, while the one person convinced her doctor the 2nd shot should wait until late 2021 - following a time span closer to the uk.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 4:43 pm    Post subject:

Karl Anthony Towns is fine with Kyrie's having his choice, but not for "Bulls*** excuses"

"I'm obviously a strong believer in the vaccine," Towns said, via NJ.com. "I've been through so much and it would be kind of contradictory to not be on the pro-vaccine side. But what I will say is that I believe in choice and I like to give people their choice and I have no problem with people having their choice."

“They make their own decisions on their own bodies and their own families. I have no ill will towards that," Towns said, via NJ.com. "The only thing I would say is just don't give me a bulls**t excuse why [you don't get the vaccine] … You don't want to do it, that's your choice."
https://sports.yahoo.com/minnesota-timberwolves-karl-anthony-towns-fine-with-kyrie-irvings-covid19-coronavirus-vaccine-choice-not-any-excuses-brooklyn-nets-220500772.html
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:30 am    Post subject:

novavax protein vaccine phase 3 results are out. protein vaccines have been used in various vaccines including flu vaccines.

may be available in the future for boosters.


https://www.marketscreener.com/quote/stock/NOVAVAX-INC-58256108/news/Novavax-Complete-PREVENT-19-Phase-3-Clinical-Trial-Results-Manuscript-for-COVID-19-Vaccine-Posted-36658128/

Full results from the PREVENT-19 pivotal Phase 3 trial of Novavax' COVID-19 vaccine candidate have been posted to the medRxiv preprint server. The trial achieved its primary endpoint in which NVX-CoV2373, Novavax' recombinant nanoparticle protein-based COVID-19 vaccine, demonstrated 100% protection against moderate and severe disease and 90.4% efficacy overall.

PREVENT-19 was a randomized, observer-blinded, placebo-controlled trial conducted in nearly 30,000 adults in the United States and Mexico. Participants were 18 years of age and older and randomized in a 2:1 ratio to receive two 5?g doses of NVX-CoV2373 with 50?g Matrix-MTM adjuvant, or placebo, 21 days apart. Sites were selected to prioritize racial and ethnic diversity, as well as participants at high risk of acquisition or complications of COVID-19. The trial also included a blinded crossover where those originally randomized to placebo received active vaccine and vice versa, ensuring all participants received NVX-CoV2373 without compromising Food and Drug Administration (FDA)-required safety follow-up.

The trial achieved its primary endpoint of efficacy in preventing polymerase chain reaction (PCR)-confirmed, symptomatic mild, moderate or severe COVID-19 with onset at least 7 days after the second dose. Solicited adverse events were predominantly mild-to-moderate and transient, were more frequent in the vaccine recipients and increased after the second dose. Severe reactions were infrequent and there were no safety concerns related to vaccination.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 7:03 pm    Post subject:

charlie wrote:
Oct 24, 2021ReplyRetweetFavorite

ScooterCaster wrote:
Oct 24, 2021ReplyRetweetFavorite

Tom Frezza wrote:
Oct 24, 2021ReplyRetweetFavorite

The Sly Show🇺🇲 wrote:
Oct 24, 2021ReplyRetweetFavorite

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:55 pm    Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:
charlie wrote:
Oct 24, 2021ReplyRetweetFavorite

ScooterCaster wrote:
Oct 24, 2021ReplyRetweetFavorite

Tom Frezza wrote:
Oct 24, 2021ReplyRetweetFavorite

The Sly Show🇺🇲 wrote:
Oct 24, 2021ReplyRetweetFavorite



omg reminds me of jan 6 lunatics
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:58 pm    Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:
charlie wrote:
Oct 24, 2021ReplyRetweetFavorite

ScooterCaster wrote:
Oct 24, 2021ReplyRetweetFavorite

Tom Frezza wrote:
Oct 24, 2021ReplyRetweetFavorite

The Sly Show🇺🇲 wrote:
Oct 24, 2021ReplyRetweetFavorite


Anti-Vaxxers are the biggest brained, loveliest people.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 2:56 pm    Post subject:

Floyd Mayweather on Kyrie Irving https://youtu.be/zrZitRzJHIk
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 1:17 pm    Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:
Floyd Mayweather on Kyrie Irving https://youtu.be/zrZitRzJHIk


At least we know that Floyd isn't susceptible to reading disinfo.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2021 12:45 pm    Post subject:

this is the protein based vaccine that is starting to become approved (other countries). protein vaccines are one of the 2 oldest and proven technologies for vaccines and used in flu vaccine as well as other vaccines. when and if available in us, could be good for worried parents.

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/novavax-covid-19-vaccine-receives-emergency-use-authorization-indonesia-2021-11-01/

Novavax Inc (NVAX.O) expects regulators in India, the Philippines and elsewhere to make a decision on its COVID-19 vaccine within "weeks," its chief executive told Reuters, after the shot on Monday received its first emergency use authorization (EUA) from Indonesia.

Novavax shares were up about 13% after the company also said it had filed an application for emergency use of the vaccine to Canada and the European Medicines Agency.

...

A green light from the WHO would set the stage for Novavax to begin shipping doses to the COVAX program that supplies shots to low-income countries. Novavax and SII have together committed to provide more than 1.1 billion doses to COVAX, which is co-led by the WHO.

Erck said Novavax has resolved all of its manufacturing challenges and does not expect regulators to have any further concerns about its production processes. He said Novavax is “in dialogue with the U.S. FDA and ... we expect a full submission within the next several weeks.
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