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Halflife
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 Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2021 9:18 am Post subject: |
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| ThePageDude wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Still think that we need to temper our expectations a bit for him. He's 20, entering year #3. The 3 point shooting, overall defense, those take a while to improve and with more prominence in the rotation, he will need to improve on that. I don't know if he will get starter's minutes because of these limitations yet, but I'm sure he and his training team are working hard on these limitations. |
He had a hard year last season taking on more decision making responsibility as an initiator. But he needs those reps to work through mistakes in order to get there.
Personally, I'd rather have him just be a wing and be confident in what he can do best offensively, before expanding on playmaking. |
Am I crazy to think that maybe his best position might be "SF?" Given his weight (230 lbs) and wingspan, I wonder if we could have him defend SFs, and his handle/playmaking would be better than most "SFs." |
Yes, you are.
THT = 6'4" (generous), 234#
Kawhi - 6'7" 235#
Butler - 6'7" 230#
Tatum - 6'8" 210#
Hayward - 6'7" 225#
Middleton - 6'7" 222#
Ingram - 6'8" 190#
Bojan - 6'7" 225#
DeRozan - 6'6" 225#
Porter, Jr. - 6'10" 220#
Gallinari - 6'10" 235#
Wiggins - 6'7" 200#
Bertans - 6'10" 225# |
To be fair THT's standing reach adds a couple of inches against the shortfall but I agree with you I don't think it's enough against the better 3's in the league. |
tiny sample size but he was OK against kawai. his arms are sleestack-esque |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2021 9:28 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Yes, you are.
THT = 6'4" (generous), 234#
Kawhi - 6'7" 235#
Butler - 6'7" 230#
Tatum - 6'8" 210#
Hayward - 6'7" 225#
Middleton - 6'7" 222#
Ingram - 6'8" 190#
Bojan - 6'7" 225#
DeRozan - 6'6" 225#
Porter, Jr. - 6'10" 220#
Gallinari - 6'10" 235#
Wiggins - 6'7" 200#
Bertans - 6'10" 225#
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I wouldn't rely on player height say that "it's crazy" to say THT shouldn't play SF.
Player height isn't relevant here, at all.
Standing reach has a ton more meaning.
But I guess if I said THT has the same standing reach as Cam Johnson, Kevin Porter Jr., and more than Brandon Clarke Jr., Terance Mann, and Jarrett Culver, it wouldn't sway you.
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Halflife
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Joined: 15 Aug 2015
Posts: 16703
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| Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2021 9:31 am Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | Quote: | Yes, you are.
THT = 6'4" (generous), 234#
Kawhi - 6'7" 235#
Butler - 6'7" 230#
Tatum - 6'8" 210#
Hayward - 6'7" 225#
Middleton - 6'7" 222#
Ingram - 6'8" 190#
Bojan - 6'7" 225#
DeRozan - 6'6" 225#
Porter, Jr. - 6'10" 220#
Gallinari - 6'10" 235#
Wiggins - 6'7" 200#
Bertans - 6'10" 225#
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I wouldn't rely on player height say that "it's crazy" to say THT shouldn't play SF.
Player height isn't relevant here, at all.
Standing reach has a ton more meaning.
But I guess if I said THT has the same standing reach as Cam Johnson, Kevin Porter Jr., and more than Brandon Clarke Jr., Terance Mann, and Jarrett Culver, it wouldn't sway you. |
I mean how many shots are blocked, lanes clogged, balls stolen with players heads |
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PICKnPOP
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Joined: 14 Jul 2014
Posts: 5377
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| Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 11:50 am Post subject: |
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I feel like we should give him the starting PG spot. The more he plays the faster he develops. He still has holes in his game but he’s a factor that the defense has to account for when on the floor. He also has a huge size advantage when played at the 1.
Tht
Free agent
Free agent
Lebron
AD
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LGFan
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Posts: 1860
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| Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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| PICKnPOP wrote: | I feel like we should give him the starting PG spot. The more he plays the faster he develops. He still has holes in his game but he’s a factor that the defense has to account for when on the floor. He also has a huge size advantage when played at the 1.
Tht
Free agent
Free agent
Lebron
AD |
The goal is to compete for championship and not to watch a 20yr old Grow |
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epic_
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Posts: 11310
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| Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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Anyone feel like he was doing too much ball watching last year on defense? I feel like his man would always cut when he does. But amazingly, he was able to recover with his length and got some semi chase down blocks. If he doesn't fix that, that kind of stuff is going to keep him on the bench in the playoffs.
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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| epic_ wrote: | | Anyone feel like he was doing too much ball watching last year on defense? I feel like his man would always cut when he does. But amazingly, he was able to recover with his length and got some semi chase down blocks. If he doesn't fix that, that kind of stuff is going to keep him on the bench in the playoffs. |
He's a space cadet off ball
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epic_
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Posts: 11310
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| Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | epic_ wrote: | | Anyone feel like he was doing too much ball watching last year on defense? I feel like his man would always cut when he does. But amazingly, he was able to recover with his length and got some semi chase down blocks. If he doesn't fix that, that kind of stuff is going to keep him on the bench in the playoffs. |
He's a space cadet off ball |
What do you think about his on ball defense at each position 1-3?
Defending 2s and 3s might be best for on ball.
But they might wreck him on off ball movement.
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PICKnPOP
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| Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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I think he’s ready. If he’s coachable he can learn on court during the season.
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kikanga
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Location: La La Land
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| Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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| LGFan wrote: | | PICKnPOP wrote: | I feel like we should give him the starting PG spot. The more he plays the faster he develops. He still has holes in his game but he’s a factor that the defense has to account for when on the floor. He also has a huge size advantage when played at the 1.
Tht
Free agent
Free agent
Lebron
AD |
The goal is to compete for championship and not to watch a 20yr old Grow |
I feel ya. Just keep it simple. Let it be a meritocracy. No spot in the rotation is promised to anyone outside of LBJ and AD. Let people go out there during summer camp and earn it.
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LGFan
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Posts: 1860
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| Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | LGFan wrote: | | PICKnPOP wrote: | I feel like we should give him the starting PG spot. The more he plays the faster he develops. He still has holes in his game but he’s a factor that the defense has to account for when on the floor. He also has a huge size advantage when played at the 1.
Tht
Free agent
Free agent
Lebron
AD |
The goal is to compete for championship and not to watch a 20yr old Grow |
I feel ya. Just keep it simple. Let it be a meritocracy. No spot in the rotation is promised to anyone outside of LBJ and AD. Let people go out there during summer camp and earn it. |
agree |
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governator
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Posts: 25076
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| Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2021 5:10 am Post subject: |
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| where do you guys have THT in term of asset, if he sign $9-10m/yr and Jazz offer Jordan Clarkson trade straight up... who'd you rather have? |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2021 6:07 am Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | where do you guys have THT in term of asset, if he sign $9-10m/yr and Jazz offer Jordan Clarkson trade straight up... who'd you rather have? |
THT by miles.
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Dr. Laker
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Joined: 12 Apr 2002
Posts: 17104
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| Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:31 am Post subject: |
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| Halflife wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Quote: | Yes, you are.
THT = 6'4" (generous), 234#
Kawhi - 6'7" 235#
Butler - 6'7" 230#
Tatum - 6'8" 210#
Hayward - 6'7" 225#
Middleton - 6'7" 222#
Ingram - 6'8" 190#
Bojan - 6'7" 225#
DeRozan - 6'6" 225#
Porter, Jr. - 6'10" 220#
Gallinari - 6'10" 235#
Wiggins - 6'7" 200#
Bertans - 6'10" 225#
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I wouldn't rely on player height say that "it's crazy" to say THT shouldn't play SF.
Player height isn't relevant here, at all.
Standing reach has a ton more meaning.
But I guess if I said THT has the same standing reach as Cam Johnson, Kevin Porter Jr., and more than Brandon Clarke Jr., Terance Mann, and Jarrett Culver, it wouldn't sway you. |
I mean how many shots are blocked, lanes clogged, balls stolen with players heads |
Average standing reach for SF at the combine is 8' 9.25".
http://www.draftexpress.com/average-measurements-by-position/all/NBA+Draft+Combine/all/14/
THT's standing reach is 8' 7".
That is below average, which given his height, is understandable.
THT's body and game are best suited for combo guard. He may not even be ideal as a starter, but more of a Vinnie Johnson change of pace type off of the bench. If he could shoot, he'd be a potential Hersey Hawkins type. Hersey was listed at 6'3" 190#, but looked more like 220# on the court.
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Mark10 45
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Joined: 27 Feb 2020
Posts: 575
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| Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:44 am Post subject: |
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| Dr. Laker wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Quote: | Yes, you are.
THT = 6'4" (generous), 234#
Kawhi - 6'7" 235#
Butler - 6'7" 230#
Tatum - 6'8" 210#
Hayward - 6'7" 225#
Middleton - 6'7" 222#
Ingram - 6'8" 190#
Bojan - 6'7" 225#
DeRozan - 6'6" 225#
Porter, Jr. - 6'10" 220#
Gallinari - 6'10" 235#
Wiggins - 6'7" 200#
Bertans - 6'10" 225#
|
I wouldn't rely on player height say that "it's crazy" to say THT shouldn't play SF.
Player height isn't relevant here, at all.
Standing reach has a ton more meaning.
But I guess if I said THT has the same standing reach as Cam Johnson, Kevin Porter Jr., and more than Brandon Clarke Jr., Terance Mann, and Jarrett Culver, it wouldn't sway you. |
I mean how many shots are blocked, lanes clogged, balls stolen with players heads |
Average standing reach for SF at the combine is 8' 9.25".
http://www.draftexpress.com/average-measurements-by-position/all/NBA+Draft+Combine/all/14/
THT's standing reach is 8' 7".
That is below average, which given his height, is understandable.
THT's body and game are best suited for combo guard. He may not even be ideal as a starter, but more of a Vinnie Johnson change of pace type off of the bench. If he could shoot, he'd be a potential Hersey Hawkins type. |
hmmm.. give me a minute to post standing reaches.. Off the top of my head, most SFs who get minutes in today's NBA don't have that high of a standing reach. it's more in the 8'7-8'8 range. And THT would have an above average wingspan at SF, I'd guess the average is 6'11.
Why would Draft Express' numbers be high? Some draftees(tweeners) get labeled at wrong positions.. also the NBA has downsized in recent years and DX doesn't have the last couple years measurements on their site..so that average is old
Let me check reaches, but I'm confident THT is average there and above average wingspan for SF |
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epic_
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Joined: 23 Jan 2020
Posts: 11310
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| Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:01 am Post subject: |
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^ very interesting.
Perhaps NBA teams that play guards are the 3 spot will skew the numbers in THT's favor.
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oaktown_dimond
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Joined: 16 Nov 2007
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| Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:01 am Post subject: |
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| the bet is THT becoming a starting level shooting guard. and the parlay is him becoming an all star level shooting guard. |
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epic_
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Posts: 11310
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| Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:08 am Post subject: |
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| oaktown_dimond wrote: | | the bet is THT becoming a starting level shooting guard. and the parlay is him becoming an all star level shooting guard. |
If I were a betting man, which I'm not, I would go $1000 on being a starting level player. And $100 on the parlay.
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Mark10 45
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| Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:11 am Post subject: |
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So yea, looking at the guys below, THT has an average reach for a SF, and an above average wingspan. Wingspan+reach he probably has 65%tile length for the position
Jaylen Brown 8'6.5 reach at the combine , 6'11.75 ws
Demar Derozen has played equal minutes at SF & PF the last 2 seasons (listed as a PF on basketball-reference.com) - 8'6.5 reach , 6'9 ws
Kawhi 8'10, 7'3 ws
Jimmy Butler 8'5.5, 6'7.5 ws
Lebron 8'9 reach, 7'0 ws
Middleton 8'7 , 6'10.75 ws
Klay Thompson guards a lot of SFs 8'7.5 , 6'9 ws
Tobias Harris (plays a lot of PF too) 8'7.5, 6'11 ws
Gordon Hayward 8'7, 6'7.75 ws
Harrison Barnes 8'6, 6'11.25
Brandon Ingram 9'1.5, 7'3 ws
TJ Warren 8'8, 6'10.25 ws
OG Annunoby 8'11, 7'2 ws, played a solid amount of PF
Kelly Oubre Jr 8'6.5, 7'2 ws
Wiggins 8'11, 7'0 ws
Durant played mostly the 4 this year.
Tatum played half of his minutes at the 4, he's 8'10 7'0 |
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Dr. Laker
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Joined: 12 Apr 2002
Posts: 17104
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| Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:29 am Post subject: |
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| Mark10 45 wrote: | | So yea, looking at the guys below, THT has an average reach for a SF, and an above average wingspan. Wingspan+reach he probably has 65%tile length for the position |
Crunch the numbers however you like, but the guy is 6'3" with a standing reach of 8'7". That is solid for a SG or combo guard. It's undersized for a small forward. Not terribly so, but it's exploitable - particularly against SFs who can operate in the low- or mid-post. They'll just rain turnaround jumpers over him.
It's not a knock on THT - he's a talented kid, He's just not a SF for more than spot minutes.
LG fans are like my nephew who would always put Kevin Garnett at PG and Charles Barkley at C on NBA 2K. What works on video games doesn't work in real life.
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Mark10 45
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| Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:36 am Post subject: |
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| Dr. Laker wrote: | | Mark10 45 wrote: | | So yea, looking at the guys below, THT has an average reach for a SF, and an above average wingspan. Wingspan+reach he probably has 65%tile length for the position |
Crunch the numbers however you like, but the guy is 6'3" with a standing reach of 8'7". That is solid for a SG or combo guard. It's undersized for a small forward. Not terribly so, but it's exploitable - particularly against SFs who can operate in the low- or mid-post. They'll just rain turnaround jumpers over him.
It's not a knock on THT - he's a talented kid, He's just not a SF for more than spot minutes.
LG fans are like my nephew who always put Kevin Garnett at PG on NBA 2K. What works on video games doesn't work in real life. |
But the numbers show he has an average standing reach. In fact, his standing reach is higher than more of the players I listed than not -- it wouldn't be a stretch to say he has an above average reach for a SF... and he has an elite wingspan for the position on top of that
yes he'd be very short for the position... but hey, you play the game with your arms not the top of your head right
In the modern NBA we see players THT's height sometimes defend PFs - Marcus Smart, Bruce Brown..... It's truly matchup based. But the fact is, THT probably will have a length advantage against SFs he faces |
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Dr. Laker
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Joined: 12 Apr 2002
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| Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:58 am Post subject: |
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| Mark10 45 wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | | Mark10 45 wrote: | | So yea, looking at the guys below, THT has an average reach for a SF, and an above average wingspan. Wingspan+reach he probably has 65%tile length for the position |
Crunch the numbers however you like, but the guy is 6'3" with a standing reach of 8'7". That is solid for a SG or combo guard. It's undersized for a small forward. Not terribly so, but it's exploitable - particularly against SFs who can operate in the low- or mid-post. They'll just rain turnaround jumpers over him.
It's not a knock on THT - he's a talented kid, He's just not a SF for more than spot minutes.
LG fans are like my nephew who always put Kevin Garnett at PG on NBA 2K. What works on video games doesn't work in real life. |
But the numbers show he has an average standing reach. In fact, his standing reach is higher than more of the players I listed than not -- it wouldn't be a stretch to say he has an above average reach for a SF... and he has an elite wingspan for the position on top of that
yes he'd be very short for the position... but hey, you play the game with your arms not the top of your head right
In the modern NBA we see players THT's height sometimes defend PFs - Marcus Smart, Bruce Brown..... It's truly matchup based. But the fact is, THT probably will have a length advantage against SFs he faces |
Ludicrous, for the most part.
Maybe in spot matchups with the Norman Powells and against 3 guard lineups, THT will hold his own.
But for the most part, having THT at the 3 will compromise our defense.
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Mark10 45
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Posts: 575
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| Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 11:00 am Post subject: |
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| Dr. Laker wrote: | | Mark10 45 wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | | Mark10 45 wrote: | | So yea, looking at the guys below, THT has an average reach for a SF, and an above average wingspan. Wingspan+reach he probably has 65%tile length for the position |
Crunch the numbers however you like, but the guy is 6'3" with a standing reach of 8'7". That is solid for a SG or combo guard. It's undersized for a small forward. Not terribly so, but it's exploitable - particularly against SFs who can operate in the low- or mid-post. They'll just rain turnaround jumpers over him.
It's not a knock on THT - he's a talented kid, He's just not a SF for more than spot minutes.
LG fans are like my nephew who always put Kevin Garnett at PG on NBA 2K. What works on video games doesn't work in real life. |
But the numbers show he has an average standing reach. In fact, his standing reach is higher than more of the players I listed than not -- it wouldn't be a stretch to say he has an above average reach for a SF... and he has an elite wingspan for the position on top of that
yes he'd be very short for the position... but hey, you play the game with your arms not the top of your head right
In the modern NBA we see players THT's height sometimes defend PFs - Marcus Smart, Bruce Brown..... It's truly matchup based. But the fact is, THT probably will have a length advantage against SFs he faces |
Ludicrous, for the most part.
Maybe in spot matchups with the Norman Powells and against 3 guard lineups, THT will hold his own.
But for the most part, having THT at the 3 will compromise our defense. |
did you miss the list above, my friend? I listed 16 of the best SFs, THT is longer than 10 of them.. |
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Dr. Laker
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Joined: 12 Apr 2002
Posts: 17104
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| Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Mark10 45 wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | | Mark10 45 wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | | Mark10 45 wrote: | | So yea, looking at the guys below, THT has an average reach for a SF, and an above average wingspan. Wingspan+reach he probably has 65%tile length for the position |
Crunch the numbers however you like, but the guy is 6'3" with a standing reach of 8'7". That is solid for a SG or combo guard. It's undersized for a small forward. Not terribly so, but it's exploitable - particularly against SFs who can operate in the low- or mid-post. They'll just rain turnaround jumpers over him.
It's not a knock on THT - he's a talented kid, He's just not a SF for more than spot minutes.
LG fans are like my nephew who always put Kevin Garnett at PG on NBA 2K. What works on video games doesn't work in real life. |
But the numbers show he has an average standing reach. In fact, his standing reach is higher than more of the players I listed than not -- it wouldn't be a stretch to say he has an above average reach for a SF... and he has an elite wingspan for the position on top of that
yes he'd be very short for the position... but hey, you play the game with your arms not the top of your head right
In the modern NBA we see players THT's height sometimes defend PFs - Marcus Smart, Bruce Brown..... It's truly matchup based. But the fact is, THT probably will have a length advantage against SFs he faces |
Ludicrous, for the most part.
Maybe in spot matchups with the Norman Powells and against 3 guard lineups, THT will hold his own.
But for the most part, having THT at the 3 will compromise our defense. |
did you miss the list above, my friend? I listed 16 of the best SFs, THT is longer than 10 of them.. |
You listed 15 and all but 6 (using your measurements) have longer standing reaches than THT. You also "snuck" several guys who are primarily SGs onto your list, while leaving off guys like MPJ, Grant, etc.
THT will be a good NBA player at PG/SG. There's no need to make him into something that he's not.
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Mike@LG
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Joined: 10 Apr 2001
Posts: 65135
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Dr. Laker wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Quote: | Yes, you are.
THT = 6'4" (generous), 234#
Kawhi - 6'7" 235#
Butler - 6'7" 230#
Tatum - 6'8" 210#
Hayward - 6'7" 225#
Middleton - 6'7" 222#
Ingram - 6'8" 190#
Bojan - 6'7" 225#
DeRozan - 6'6" 225#
Porter, Jr. - 6'10" 220#
Gallinari - 6'10" 235#
Wiggins - 6'7" 200#
Bertans - 6'10" 225#
|
I wouldn't rely on player height say that "it's crazy" to say THT shouldn't play SF.
Player height isn't relevant here, at all.
Standing reach has a ton more meaning.
But I guess if I said THT has the same standing reach as Cam Johnson, Kevin Porter Jr., and more than Brandon Clarke Jr., Terance Mann, and Jarrett Culver, it wouldn't sway you. |
I mean how many shots are blocked, lanes clogged, balls stolen with players heads |
Average standing reach for SF at the combine is 8' 9.25".
http://www.draftexpress.com/average-measurements-by-position/all/NBA+Draft+Combine/all/14/
THT's standing reach is 8' 7".
That is below average, which given his height, is understandable.
THT's body and game are best suited for combo guard. He may not even be ideal as a starter, but more of a Vinnie Johnson change of pace type off of the bench. If he could shoot, he'd be a potential Hersey Hawkins type. Hersey was listed at 6'3" 190#, but looked more like 220# on the court. |
Maybe you're unaware about how many players in draft classes, weren't even drafted, despite having outlier measurements.
Let alone drafted NBA players that didn't even bother measuring.
That's why I listed a handful of NBA players that actually play 3/4, and get minutes.
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