| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
governator
Retired Number
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 25134
|
 Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2021 7:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Dreamshake wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | I question whether there are even 10 guys in the league who you can build a contender around. |
That's fair, but I think it's clear Davis isn't a guy you can build a contender around. He's been in the league for a decade. He is what he is.
| activeverb wrote: | | So I am not arguing that AD is the guy I would want to build a team around to win a ring. I'm arguing that there are far fewer of those guys than you might imagine. There might only be 5 in the league at any given time who you can build a team around with confidence that you have a reasonable shot of winning. |
Agreed. |
Who would you not trade AD for Dreamshake? I'm guessing KD, Harden, Steph, Kawhi, Giannis, LeBron, who else? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Halflife
Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2015
Posts: 16931
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2021 2:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| governator wrote: | | Dreamshake wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | I question whether there are even 10 guys in the league who you can build a contender around. |
That's fair, but I think it's clear Davis isn't a guy you can build a contender around. He's been in the league for a decade. He is what he is.
| activeverb wrote: | | So I am not arguing that AD is the guy I would want to build a team around to win a ring. I'm arguing that there are far fewer of those guys than you might imagine. There might only be 5 in the league at any given time who you can build a team around with confidence that you have a reasonable shot of winning. |
Agreed. |
Who would you not trade AD for Dreamshake? I'm guessing KD, Harden, Steph, Kawhi, Giannis, LeBron, who else? |
Sorry to butt in but hell no do you trade ad fo anyone north of 30 with few exceptions. You certainly don’t move him for a more injured less engaged guy .in kawaii. Ad isn’t a 1a but if you surround him with length you could build an elite defensive team around him.
Tatum, Evan Mobley, ja ( yeah right) , Trae. Obviously there are more but similar to ja the other team wouldn’t
_________________
Kobe.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Clw9scopegx/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y= |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dreamshake
Franchise Player
Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 13712
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2021 11:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| governator wrote: | | Who would you not trade AD for Dreamshake? I'm guessing KD, Harden, Steph, Kawhi, Giannis, LeBron, who else? |
All of those guys, depending on how I felt about Kawhi's health. But also some younger guys that still have time to prove themselves and have shown promise so far. Davis has pretty much shown what he is, as far as building a team around him.
But give me Luka, Joker, CP3, Trae, Mitchell and Ja as primary players. I think all but the last one could compete for a title with LeBron now...the team would just have to be bult differently. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lts
Starting Rotation
Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 392
Location: Shanghai
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2021 4:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
| governator wrote: | | Dreamshake wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | I question whether there are even 10 guys in the league who you can build a contender around. |
That's fair, but I think it's clear Davis isn't a guy you can build a contender around. He's been in the league for a decade. He is what he is.
| activeverb wrote: | | So I am not arguing that AD is the guy I would want to build a team around to win a ring. I'm arguing that there are far fewer of those guys than you might imagine. There might only be 5 in the league at any given time who you can build a team around with confidence that you have a reasonable shot of winning. |
Agreed. |
Who would you not trade AD for Dreamshake? I'm guessing KD, Harden, Steph, Kawhi, Giannis, LeBron, who else? |
Can we trade these asset to Pelicans back?
_________________
You are not alone. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MJST
Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 26596
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
alleyoop
Star Player
Joined: 08 Feb 2018
Posts: 3861
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2021 8:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
This injury will cost us this season
_________________
#18 next... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pjiddy
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Posts: 29122
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2021 8:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| alleyoop wrote: | | This injury will cost us this season |
That was the Russ trade. The AD injury just exposed it sooner. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wolfpaclaker
Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58388
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2021 8:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Moving him or firing Vogel would be one of the dumbest things we can do. They’re big time assets to the franchise.
Just need to find more athletic high defensive motor guys around AD/Bron. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Brawn13
Star Player
Joined: 30 Jan 2019
Posts: 3866
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2021 8:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| wolfpaclaker wrote: |
Moving him or firing Vogel would be one of the dumbest things we can do. They’re big time assets to the franchise.
Just need to find more athletic high defensive motor guys around AD/Bron. |
I agree about Vogel. We should’ve built a team with players that cater to his strengths. We were a top 10 defense at one point with the trash we have right now, imagine actually loading the team up with great defenders…
AD I’m unsure about. He misses lots of time every year. I wouldn’t expect that to change next year or the year after. As good as he is, he’s too unreliable to build around.
We keep dodging bullets with him (as far as injuries requiring season ending surgery) but not sure how long AD will hold up (and it hasn’t been well for a good portion of his time here already) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ZeroDark30_
Star Player
Joined: 27 Feb 2019
Posts: 8656
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2021 8:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I’d consider moving him. Im not convinced he can stay healthy and he seems mentally fragile with every injury. I just don’t believe he’s untouchable at this point. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mhan00
Retired Number
Joined: 13 Apr 2001
Posts: 32076
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2021 9:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| wolfpaclaker wrote: |
Moving him or firing Vogel would be one of the dumbest things we can do. They’re big time assets to the franchise.
Just need to find more athletic high defensive motor guys around AD/Bron. |
Would have been nice to see how a Stanley Johnson type could have helped our defense with AD in the mix. Too bad Pelinka was so obsessed with small guards. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tj24
Starting Rotation
Joined: 28 May 2010
Posts: 651
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2021 1:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
| wolfpaclaker wrote: |
Moving him or firing Vogel would be one of the dumbest things we can do. They’re big time assets to the franchise.
Just need to find more athletic high defensive motor guys around AD/Bron. |
vogel is mid but I agree
stars will want to play with AD here when we have the cap space..tatum/simmons ect |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Halflife
Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2015
Posts: 16931
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2021 9:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
| tj24 wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: |
Moving him or firing Vogel would be one of the dumbest things we can do. They’re big time assets to the franchise.
Just need to find more athletic high defensive motor guys around AD/Bron. |
vogel is mid but I agree
stars will want to play with AD here when we have the cap space..tatum/simmons ect |
Serious question. Outside of Russ who has ever wanted to play with ad
_________________
Kobe.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Clw9scopegx/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y= |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
governator
Retired Number
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 25134
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2021 9:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Halflife wrote: | | tj24 wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: |
Moving him or firing Vogel would be one of the dumbest things we can do. They’re big time assets to the franchise.
Just need to find more athletic high defensive motor guys around AD/Bron. |
vogel is mid but I agree
stars will want to play with AD here when we have the cap space..tatum/simmons ect |
Serious question. Outside of Russ who has ever wanted to play with ad |
Prime Demarcus |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MJST
Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 26596
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2021 9:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
| governator wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | | tj24 wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: |
Moving him or firing Vogel would be one of the dumbest things we can do. They’re big time assets to the franchise.
Just need to find more athletic high defensive motor guys around AD/Bron. |
vogel is mid but I agree
stars will want to play with AD here when we have the cap space..tatum/simmons ect |
Serious question. Outside of Russ who has ever wanted to play with ad |
Prime Demarcus |
Also does anyone want to consider it may have more to do with no one wanting to go to New Orleans or a franchise like New Orleans?
If Anthony Davis was with us in Los Angeles while we were going after Carmelo, Derozan(and LeBron initially) while he was in his prime that they'd have said no?
Sometimes that's what it comes down to. Don't forget. Nobody wanted to come to Cleveland to play with LeBron either. They traded for Kevin Love, and Kyrie was already there and whenever LeBron would try to recruit people to come to Cleveland he got turned down, which is why he himself was the guy that left to go to Miami because they wouldn't come to him.
Location and stuff like that matters.
Rest assured if we had a prime Anthony Davis as a Laker when we entered free agency from 2014-2019 a lot of those "No's" would have probably been yes's. Why? Because we'd have had the best big in the league and would be one star away.
_________________
How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tj24
Starting Rotation
Joined: 28 May 2010
Posts: 651
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2021 1:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Halflife wrote: | | tj24 wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: |
Moving him or firing Vogel would be one of the dumbest things we can do. They’re big time assets to the franchise.
Just need to find more athletic high defensive motor guys around AD/Bron. |
vogel is mid but I agree
stars will want to play with AD here when we have the cap space..tatum/simmons ect |
Serious question. Outside of Russ who has ever wanted to play with ad |
Bron tried to trade half a roster for him mid season
kyrie wanted to team up in Boston
Giannis even tried recruiting him to the bucks at that time too
Serious question. who has ever not wanted to play with AD? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Halflife
Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2015
Posts: 16931
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2021 2:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| tj24 wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | | tj24 wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: |
Moving him or firing Vogel would be one of the dumbest things we can do. They’re big time assets to the franchise.
Just need to find more athletic high defensive motor guys around AD/Bron. |
vogel is mid but I agree
stars will want to play with AD here when we have the cap space..tatum/simmons ect |
Serious question. Outside of Russ who has ever wanted to play with ad |
Bron tried to trade half a roster for him mid season
kyrie wanted to team up in Boston
Giannis even tried recruiting him to the bucks at that time too
Serious question. who has ever not wanted to play with AD? |
So other than being traded he didn’t get guys to come to pelicans
_________________
Kobe.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Clw9scopegx/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y= |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
GOODRICH25
Star Player
Joined: 17 Jun 2017
Posts: 3366
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2021 2:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Halflife wrote: | | tj24 wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | | tj24 wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: |
Moving him or firing Vogel would be one of the dumbest things we can do. They’re big time assets to the franchise.
Just need to find more athletic high defensive motor guys around AD/Bron. |
vogel is mid but I agree
stars will want to play with AD here when we have the cap space..tatum/simmons ect |
Serious question. Outside of Russ who has ever wanted to play with ad |
Bron tried to trade half a roster for him mid season
kyrie wanted to team up in Boston
Giannis even tried recruiting him to the bucks at that time too
Serious question. who has ever not wanted to play with AD? |
So other than being traded he didn’t get guys to come to pelicans |
Its New Orleans. Who did CP3 bring there, and those teams had deep(er) playoff runs as well...
_________________
48 49 50 52 53 54 72 80 82
85 87 88 00 01 02 09 10 20
17 99 19 22 44 13 25 Mic.
52 33 32 42 34 8 24 16 23 3 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Halflife
Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2015
Posts: 16931
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2021 2:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| GOODRICH25 wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | | tj24 wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | | tj24 wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: |
Moving him or firing Vogel would be one of the dumbest things we can do. They’re big time assets to the franchise.
Just need to find more athletic high defensive motor guys around AD/Bron. |
vogel is mid but I agree
stars will want to play with AD here when we have the cap space..tatum/simmons ect |
Serious question. Outside of Russ who has ever wanted to play with ad |
Bron tried to trade half a roster for him mid season
kyrie wanted to team up in Boston
Giannis even tried recruiting him to the bucks at that time too
Serious question. who has ever not wanted to play with AD? |
So other than being traded he didn’t get guys to come to pelicans |
Its New Orleans. Who did CP3 bring there, and those teams had deep(er) playoff runs as well... |
Im just asking about ad.
_________________
Kobe.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Clw9scopegx/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y= |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
GOODRICH25
Star Player
Joined: 17 Jun 2017
Posts: 3366
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2021 2:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Halflife wrote: | | GOODRICH25 wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | | tj24 wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | | tj24 wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: |
Moving him or firing Vogel would be one of the dumbest things we can do. They’re big time assets to the franchise.
Just need to find more athletic high defensive motor guys around AD/Bron. |
vogel is mid but I agree
stars will want to play with AD here when we have the cap space..tatum/simmons ect |
Serious question. Outside of Russ who has ever wanted to play with ad |
Bron tried to trade half a roster for him mid season
kyrie wanted to team up in Boston
Giannis even tried recruiting him to the bucks at that time too
Serious question. who has ever not wanted to play with AD? |
So other than being traded he didn’t get guys to come to pelicans |
Its New Orleans. Who did CP3 bring there, and those teams had deep(er) playoff runs as well... |
Im just asking about ad. |
Yes, im saying youre not attracting anyone to NO, AD or no AD
_________________
48 49 50 52 53 54 72 80 82
85 87 88 00 01 02 09 10 20
17 99 19 22 44 13 25 Mic.
52 33 32 42 34 8 24 16 23 3 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tj24
Starting Rotation
Joined: 28 May 2010
Posts: 651
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2021 2:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Halflife wrote: | | tj24 wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | | tj24 wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: |
Moving him or firing Vogel would be one of the dumbest things we can do. They’re big time assets to the franchise.
Just need to find more athletic high defensive motor guys around AD/Bron. |
vogel is mid but I agree
stars will want to play with AD here when we have the cap space..tatum/simmons ect |
Serious question. Outside of Russ who has ever wanted to play with ad |
Bron tried to trade half a roster for him mid season
kyrie wanted to team up in Boston
Giannis even tried recruiting him to the bucks at that time too
Serious question. who has ever not wanted to play with AD? |
So other than being traded he didn’t get guys to come to pelicans |
Cousins tore his Achilles and the FO blew the team up at the time AD would be in position to actually recruit guys to come there. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Halflife
Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2015
Posts: 16931
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tj24
Starting Rotation
Joined: 28 May 2010
Posts: 651
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2021 2:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
and no star chasing legacy wants to play for a team called the pelicans and have to live full time in the south unless they're from NO or getting paid big $$$
impossible to get superstars to willingly play there |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MJST
Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 26596
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2021 12:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| J.C. Smith wrote: |
The criticisms of KG were similar to the criticisms he gave AD. Though AD has been much more of a playoff clutch performer than KG ever was. KG only averaged more than 24.3 points per game once during the playoffs, when he averaged 27 points in a 6 game series en route to a first round exit. His shooting percentage dropped in the playoffs.
Prior to the trade to Boston his shooting percentage in the playoffs from age 23 to 27 was: 38.5%, 46.6%, 42.9%, 51.4%, and 45.2%. He didn't hit 50% in the playoffs again after that until he was a 36 and 37 year old role player with a reduced role.
Comparing what AD has done in his playoffs though to KG's its night and day. Last season's 17.7 points and 40% fg is a byproduct of his injuries. Prior to that AD's lowest points per game in the playoffs was 27.7 points (during the title run) and was done on over 57% from the field. In his first two trips he averaged 31.5 and 30.1 points on 54% and 52%.
KG and AD have similar games. Except AD is more of a scorer than KG ever was. KG was a better rebounder, but AD is a better shot blocker. They are both elite defenders. So given all that data, it's easy to see how people get to that perspective. KG and AD are pretty similar, except one scowled a bit more than the other. But when it came to clutch scoring AD > KG by a good margin. KG never seemed to want that role when it mattered. |
All of what you said s true. But they're just gonna move the goalposts like they always do when they're wrong about AD. Whether it be "But KG was tougher/an alpha though" or "But you could rely on KG!!" or otherwise.
_________________
How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Halflife
Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2015
Posts: 16931
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2021 2:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| MJST wrote: | | J.C. Smith wrote: |
The criticisms of KG were similar to the criticisms he gave AD. Though AD has been much more of a playoff clutch performer than KG ever was. KG only averaged more than 24.3 points per game once during the playoffs, when he averaged 27 points in a 6 game series en route to a first round exit. His shooting percentage dropped in the playoffs.
Prior to the trade to Boston his shooting percentage in the playoffs from age 23 to 27 was: 38.5%, 46.6%, 42.9%, 51.4%, and 45.2%. He didn't hit 50% in the playoffs again after that until he was a 36 and 37 year old role player with a reduced role.
Comparing what AD has done in his playoffs though to KG's its night and day. Last season's 17.7 points and 40% fg is a byproduct of his injuries. Prior to that AD's lowest points per game in the playoffs was 27.7 points (during the title run) and was done on over 57% from the field. In his first two trips he averaged 31.5 and 30.1 points on 54% and 52%.
KG and AD have similar games. Except AD is more of a scorer than KG ever was. KG was a better rebounder, but AD is a better shot blocker. They are both elite defenders. So given all that data, it's easy to see how people get to that perspective. KG and AD are pretty similar, except one scowled a bit more than the other. But when it came to clutch scoring AD > KG by a good margin. KG never seemed to want that role when it mattered. |
All of what you said s true. But they're just gonna move the goalposts like they always do when they're wrong about AD. Whether it be "But KG was tougher/an alpha though" or "But you could rely on KG!!" or otherwise. |
Reality is ad can’t carry us. Whether anyone else could is irrelevant.
_________________
Kobe.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Clw9scopegx/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y= |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
