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| Are you happy about Vogel becoming our coach? |
| No |
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12% |
[ 62 ] |
| Yes |
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54% |
[ 271 ] |
| Neutral |
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32% |
[ 163 ] |
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| Total Votes : 496 |
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LakerSD
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Joined: 10 Nov 2016
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av3773
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 Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 8:11 am Post subject: |
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If this were indeed the case then he should 100% be fired today. His job is to manage and facilitate the maximal use of the roster that he has ......period ...if he does that, which he hasn't this seasons, he will be putting the team in the best position to win and if we win all of the other noise goes away....AND even if we lose, but people can objectively make sense of the lineups and rotations even then I think he as a coach would be in a much better position as to what people "perceive"
| seble24 wrote: | The problem with blaming Vogel completely for playing time/rotations is that it seems clear he's trying to make everybody happy, including front office (Rambis/Pelinka?) and his "star" players.
He's got one hand tied behind his back dealing with so many egos and a horrible roster. |
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Laker_Town
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Joined: 26 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 8:56 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | It's weird the chain of leaks. Who are they coming from?
This has been the Vogel status timeline.
Before the season:
1) Vogel only got 1 year extension (planting the seeds of doubt).
Why give the coach who won you a ring, and had the #1 defense in the NBA with an injury depleted team (AD/Bron missed over half the games) just a 1 year extension? Second, why does this even come out? Seems like Vogel has people within the org. that doubt him.
2) As soon as the Lakers start .500/not too strong, the focus comes on Vogel's lack of job security.
3) Vogel gets Covid, and his replacement Fizdale does very ordinary. The team goes 1-5 without Vogel. But Lebron does say good things about Fizdale.
4) Someone leaks that Vogel's coaching on a game to game basis, and the Lakers almost fired Vogel already.
5) When #4 is revealed, the majority of the reaction (public) is negative towards LA, and positive towards Vogel. Former players like Danny Green support Vogel. Most NBA coaches in media positions strongly support Vogel. Executives (sourced) also support Vogel and question the Lakers moves of WB and signing guys like DAJ, Melo etc.
6) As #5 happens, suddenly you see a shift in what's said. Suddenly a new report comes out that Vogel's job is not under threat on a game to game basis and there is no plan to change coaches.
7) Now new report that the FO has even given coaches full authority to bench Westbrook and modify his role as they see fit.
Just wow, man. The Westbrook experience. First Houston with MDA/Harden/Morey. Now here with Vogel. I wonder if we can not make the same mistakes Houston did. Jeanie, for the love of god. Be patient. The issue isn't the 4.5M a year coach you pay. You're not getting Phil Jackson or some elite all time coach coming in and saving the WB disaster. What you do is just accept the mistake the FO made with trading Caruso (basically), Kuza, KCP and a 22nd pick for WB that drastically changed the balance of the roster. And you find a way to correct it over the next 6 months. |
#7 smells like the organization throwing Vogel under the bus. Vogel went nuclear with his Russ comments because he expected to be fired. He's been expecting it for a long time. The organization however is sending him back on a road trip into that locker room. Vogel in a locker room with a guy as emotional and egotistical as Russ? The same Russ who has previously chirped about how he's being used. Same Russ who's brother was on Spaces a few nights ago insinuating Russ wasnt being used correctly (where would he get that idea from?). Expect more headlines. And lets be real, the players will backup Russ. Vogel is no longer the coach hes been thrown into the frying pan
I dont absolve Vogel of blame either. Hes been protesting and demonstrating his unhapiness for some time. Hes a nice guy so he wont give you snarky comments like Pringles did when he was in the hot seat. Vogel and Lakers have been arguing through the media and its at the point where he has to go. Dont drag him through the mud. Hes unhappy and he's out there pushing lineups to remind everyone "this is what they gave me".
Either Vogel is fired or Westbrook is traded. We know which one is not going to happen. |
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levon
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Joined: 11 Oct 2016
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:53 am Post subject: |
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Westbrook wasn't the reason why we lost yesterday. We were getting pummeled on the boards and he decided to put in the worst defensive "5" in the league, who also couldn't hit a shot and turned the basketball over. This whole thing is unfair to Melo. He should never be in that position to begin with. But for the love of god, put a real (bleep) big body in. You're funneling offensive players into the paint with Bradley trying to box out Sabonis, who is a leading rebounder in the league.
The confounding thing is that of course the coaching staff knows this. Which makes no sense. What is the point of going small when Westbrook is not on the floor and Lebron is not attacking? All year we've been trying to make rhyme and reason out of perplexing rotations.
Last edited by levon on Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:56 am; edited 1 time in total |
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King Randle
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:55 am Post subject: |
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| Ksig wrote: | | King Randle wrote: | | Ksig wrote: | | King Randle wrote: | | hydrohead wrote: | Chris Haynes @ChrisBHaynes
Los Angeles Lakers will not be making a personnel move at this juncture and Frank Vogel will travel with the team tomorrow to coach in Orlando on Friday, league sources tell @YahooSports
1:02 AM · Jan 20, 2022 |
That's unfortunate because anyone who plays Melo 30 minutes definitely has mental illness. Inexcusable. Oh and starting and playing Ariza...who at this point in his career is absolutely 100% useless. |
We started Howard and we benched russ in closing time which is what most of yall wanted. and we still lost.
Im so confused on who yall want actually playing. Lets go down the list shall we.
Lebron. (2 way player)
Ariza (1 way player)
Howard (1 way player)
Bradley (1 way player)
Westbrook (1 way player)
Johnson (1 way player)
Monk (1 way player)
Melo (1 way player)
THT (1 way player)
Reaves. (2 way player)
From the general opinion on LG yall dont want Melo, THT, Westbrook, Ariza, Bradley to get minutes or at least hardly any minutes. That leaves us with Lebron, Howard, Johnson, Monk, and Reaves; y'all want 5 of these guys to play 40 minutes+  .
We have exactly Lebron and Reaves who can play both offense and defense competently. Every one else is either a dumpster fire on offense or a dumpster fire on defense. No matter who you put in they will be deficient on one side of the court and yall will be clambering for someone else to be put in. This is a roster failure, nothing else. |
Sorry inexcusable to not have Dwight in the game down the stretch...Also, how about Bradley on LaVert..who annihilated us. It's a game to game thing...it's not "let's just play these guys." Which is what Vogel has been doing...committing to this small ball nonsense all the time. MIX IT UP! And btw playing sorry azz Melo 30 minutes is insanity...and playing Ariza even one second might be worse. |
We only played small ball after AD got hurt. Mix it up? We've tried literally every combination of players. We've had more starting lineup combinations than every other team combined. We played big with AD/Dwight for 20 games earlier in the season and guess what? we were .500. We started dwight against the pacers and guess what? we lost.
Ariza and Melo are our only players with any size besides Stanley Johnson. So unless you want to play Johnson and Lebron for 48 minutes a night you have to play Ariza/Melo. |
What are you talking about? We started Dwight and had a 6 point lead at the half....still had a 4 point lead going into the 4th....4th quarter Dwight gets no run and guess what happened? Yes we got our azz kicked...no D, no rim protection....Gimme a break...anyone who plays Melo ahead of Dwight down the stretch in a game like last night should be fired. Anyone who plays Melo 30 minutes should be fired...anyone who plays Ariza one second should be fired. |
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anth2000
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Joined: 16 Apr 2001
Posts: 12165
Location: Pasadena, CA
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:55 am Post subject: |
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| levon wrote: | | Westbrook wasn't the reason why we lost yesterday. We were getting pummeled on the boards and he decided to put in the worst defensive "5" in the league, who also couldn't hit a shot and turned the basketball over. This whole thing is unfair to Melo. He should never be in that position to begin with. But for the love of god, put a real (bleep) big body in. You're funneling offensive players into the paint with Bradley trying to box out Sabonis, who is a leading rebounder in the league. |
Johnson and Dwight should have been in the 4th quarter period.
Needed rebounding and defense.
LaVert would not have put 20 points on Johnson - That I feel confident about saying.
Dwight would have handled Sabonis as well.
Dumb decisions cost the Lakers the game. |
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King Randle
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:55 am Post subject: |
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| levon wrote: | | Westbrook wasn't the reason why we lost yesterday. We were getting pummeled on the boards and he decided to put in the worst defensive "5" in the league, who also couldn't hit a shot and turned the basketball over. This whole thing is unfair to Melo. He should never be in that position to begin with. But for the love of god, put a real (bleep) big body in. You're funneling offensive players into the paint with Bradley trying to box out Sabonis, who is a leading rebounder in the league. |
Thank you Levon...obviously some guys here get it...others are clueless. |
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Halflife
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Joined: 15 Aug 2015
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:00 am Post subject: |
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| King Randle wrote: | | levon wrote: | | Westbrook wasn't the reason why we lost yesterday. We were getting pummeled on the boards and he decided to put in the worst defensive "5" in the league, who also couldn't hit a shot and turned the basketball over. This whole thing is unfair to Melo. He should never be in that position to begin with. But for the love of god, put a real (bleep) big body in. You're funneling offensive players into the paint with Bradley trying to box out Sabonis, who is a leading rebounder in the league. |
Thank you Levon...obviously some guys here get it...others are clueless. |
I totally agree. Bron should be able to carry this roster as constructed, he hasn't in the W column. neither has AD however we are at the point, where fingers need to point and that will not be at bron and AD.
However. Bron isn't the young bron and regardless of what anyone thinks, he's going for KAJ. Russ has helped that,
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oaktown_dimond
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Joined: 16 Nov 2007
Posts: 1358
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:14 am Post subject: |
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here's a fun one. what are the chances Kurt Rambis becomes the interim coach if Vogel is fired?
i think it's more plausible than Fizdale. |
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SGV-Laker fan
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Joined: 23 May 2013
Posts: 8860
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:17 am Post subject: |
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| oaktown_dimond wrote: | here's a fun one. what are the chances Kurt Rambis becomes the interim coach if Vogel is fired?
i think it's more plausible than Fizdale. |
if that's the case, break out the triangle offense even though that aura has been solved decade ago by rest of the league |
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Mamba Mentality
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Joined: 04 May 2017
Posts: 3078
Location: The Left Coast
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:17 am Post subject: |
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| oaktown_dimond wrote: | here's a fun one. what are the chances Kurt Rambis becomes the interim coach if Vogel is fired?
i think it's more plausible than Fizdale. |
What's sad is that is a major possibility. Fizdale would've been the coach if he went better than 1-5 in Vogel's absence. Ewww
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cthroatgtr
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Joined: 21 Aug 2005
Posts: 1375
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:19 am Post subject: |
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| levon wrote: | Westbrook wasn't the reason why we lost yesterday. We were getting pummeled on the boards and he decided to put in the worst defensive "5" in the league, who also couldn't hit a shot and turned the basketball over. This whole thing is unfair to Melo. He should never be in that position to begin with. But for the love of god, put a real (bleep) big body in. You're funneling offensive players into the paint with Bradley trying to box out Sabonis, who is a leading rebounder in the league.
The confounding thing is that of course the coaching staff knows this. Which makes no sense. What is the point of going small when Westbrook is not on the floor and Lebron is not attacking? All year we've been trying to make rhyme and reason out of perplexing rotations. |
Directly no, but ultimately yes. His salary consumes 3 roster spots, it will ALWAYS be part of the reason they lose unless he plays like a super max player. Right now at best he is playing like a star player and worst a guy you don't trust late in games.
Melo at center is a joke. I laugh when people call LBJ the team's best center, he rarely plays that on offense or defense. He just jumps center to start. |
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mad55557777
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:25 am Post subject: |
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i hope last night taught vogel a lesson which is what under no circumstances, Melo should be the 4/5 with Lebron on the court. he either plays the 4 with Dwight, or do the Stanley/Melo/Lebron front court. no matter how hot he is, his defense is going to give it all back. we got killed like 100 times on rebounds since AD was out, and it got better with Stanley playing, but melo came back last night was a blow to that.
i still can't get over the fact that Vogel played melo 30minutes on his first night back!!!!!! |
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av3773
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Joined: 11 Dec 2011
Posts: 3751
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:32 am Post subject: |
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After the trade deadline, if WB is still on the team, which I expect he will and he continues his current level of play, I'm sticking him on the second unit and it's likely I'd have him out there as the solo "star". and resting AD and LBJ while he plays...I honestly feel like he will play better in a situation where it's all on him
I think I would also start monk, reaves and SJ
C - AD
PF - Bron (who would be the defacto PG)
SF - SJ
SG - AR
PG - Monk
We get great D from SJ and ideally AD, good D from Bron and AR and acceptable D from Monk....on O AD, Bron, AR and Monk provide a punch and we get a better mix of youth with our two key vets. |
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Outspoken
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Joined: 11 Feb 2015
Posts: 8450
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:46 am Post subject: |
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| Ksig wrote: | | King Randle wrote: | | Ksig wrote: | | King Randle wrote: | | hydrohead wrote: | Chris Haynes @ChrisBHaynes
Los Angeles Lakers will not be making a personnel move at this juncture and Frank Vogel will travel with the team tomorrow to coach in Orlando on Friday, league sources tell @YahooSports
1:02 AM · Jan 20, 2022 |
That's unfortunate because anyone who plays Melo 30 minutes definitely has mental illness. Inexcusable. Oh and starting and playing Ariza...who at this point in his career is absolutely 100% useless. |
We started Howard and we benched russ in closing time which is what most of yall wanted. and we still lost.
Im so confused on who yall want actually playing. Lets go down the list shall we.
Lebron. (2 way player)
Ariza (1 way player)
Howard (1 way player)
Bradley (1 way player)
Westbrook (1 way player)
Johnson (1 way player)
Monk (1 way player)
Melo (1 way player)
THT (1 way player)
Reaves. (2 way player)
From the general opinion on LG yall dont want Melo, THT, Westbrook, Ariza, Bradley to get minutes or at least hardly any minutes. That leaves us with Lebron, Howard, Johnson, Monk, and Reaves; y'all want 5 of these guys to play 40 minutes+ .
We have exactly Lebron and Reaves who can play both offense and defense competently. Every one else is either a dumpster fire on offense or a dumpster fire on defense. No matter who you put in they will be deficient on one side of the court and yall will be clambering for someone else to be put in. This is a roster failure, nothing else. |
Sorry inexcusable to not have Dwight in the game down the stretch...Also, how about Bradley on LaVert..who annihilated us. It's a game to game thing...it's not "let's just play these guys." Which is what Vogel has been doing...committing to this small ball nonsense all the time. MIX IT UP! And btw playing sorry azz Melo 30 minutes is insanity...and playing Ariza even one second might be worse. |
We only played small ball after AD got hurt. Mix it up? We've tried literally every combination of players. We've had more starting lineup combinations than every other team combined. We played big with AD/Dwight for 20 games earlier in the season and guess what? we were .500. We started dwight against the pacers and guess what? we lost.
Ariza and Melo are our only players with any size besides Stanley Johnson. So unless you want to play Johnson and Lebron for 48 minutes a night you have to play Ariza/Melo. |
I don't believe that to be true. We played DAJ. Dwight subbed in for a little bit, but it wasn't Dwight/AD, it was more DAJ/AD. |
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levon
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Joined: 11 Oct 2016
Posts: 10602
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:47 am Post subject: |
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| cthroatgtr wrote: | | levon wrote: | Westbrook wasn't the reason why we lost yesterday. We were getting pummeled on the boards and he decided to put in the worst defensive "5" in the league, who also couldn't hit a shot and turned the basketball over. This whole thing is unfair to Melo. He should never be in that position to begin with. But for the love of god, put a real (bleep) big body in. You're funneling offensive players into the paint with Bradley trying to box out Sabonis, who is a leading rebounder in the league.
The confounding thing is that of course the coaching staff knows this. Which makes no sense. What is the point of going small when Westbrook is not on the floor and Lebron is not attacking? All year we've been trying to make rhyme and reason out of perplexing rotations. |
Directly no, but ultimately yes. His salary consumes 3 roster spots, it will ALWAYS be part of the reason they lose unless he plays like a super max player. Right now at best he is playing like a star player and worst a guy you don't trust late in games.
Melo at center is a joke. I laugh when people call LBJ the team's best center, he rarely plays that on offense or defense. He just jumps center to start. |
Sure. I was discussing this whole "sitting Westbrook" sideshow. What's even stranger about going microball to end the game is not having Westbrook out there. It's an even less justifiable position.
Anyway, we've lost multiple games we should have won this year. Maybe close to 10 in which we were leading and clearly in control, and then just lose the second half miserably. Our opposing coaches adjust. Our staff adjusts to the cadence of a five-game rolling window, as if thay gathers more "data" or builds more habits. We've averaged a starting lineup change every two games, which is probably a lot more frequent than any in-game adjustments we've made. |
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scout_0
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Joined: 22 Oct 2020
Posts: 1810
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:03 am Post subject: |
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| levon wrote: | Westbrook wasn't the reason why we lost yesterday. We were getting pummeled on the boards and he decided to put in the worst defensive "5" in the league, who also couldn't hit a shot and turned the basketball over. This whole thing is unfair to Melo. He should never be in that position to begin with. But for the love of god, put a real (bleep) big body in. You're funneling offensive players into the paint with Bradley trying to box out Sabonis, who is a leading rebounder in the league.
The confounding thing is that of course the coaching staff knows this. Which makes no sense. What is the point of going small when Westbrook is not on the floor and Lebron is not attacking? All year we've been trying to make rhyme and reason out of perplexing rotations. |
5-17FG in 26 minutes, sure he wasn't one of the main reasons why we lost....
1) That's a high amount of shots at a low percentage
2) Stops the ball from moving around and role players thriving |
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Ksig
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Joined: 03 Dec 2016
Posts: 2093
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:05 am Post subject: |
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| cthroatgtr wrote: | | levon wrote: | Westbrook wasn't the reason why we lost yesterday. We were getting pummeled on the boards and he decided to put in the worst defensive "5" in the league, who also couldn't hit a shot and turned the basketball over. This whole thing is unfair to Melo. He should never be in that position to begin with. But for the love of god, put a real (bleep) big body in. You're funneling offensive players into the paint with Bradley trying to box out Sabonis, who is a leading rebounder in the league.
The confounding thing is that of course the coaching staff knows this. Which makes no sense. What is the point of going small when Westbrook is not on the floor and Lebron is not attacking? All year we've been trying to make rhyme and reason out of perplexing rotations. |
Directly no, but ultimately yes. His salary consumes 3 roster spots, it will ALWAYS be part of the reason they lose unless he plays like a super max player. Right now at best he is playing like a star player and worst a guy you don't trust late in games.
Melo at center is a joke. I laugh when people call LBJ the team's best center, he rarely plays that on offense or defense. He just jumps center to start. |
At BEST hes playing like an average starter. At WORST hes playing like one of the worst nba players to suit up this year. Hes shooting 35% and 25% from 3 in the past 10 games for peats sake. All the while playing some of the worst defense a guard can play. |
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Nash Vegas
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Posts: 7239
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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Woj today said if Kidd was still with the Lakers, Vogel would already be fired.
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hydrohead
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Nash Vegas wrote: | | Woj today said if Kidd was still with the Lakers, Vogel would already be fired. |
Maybe, but then again Woj is an a$$hat.
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Halflife
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levon
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DrDent
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Joined: 30 Jun 2016
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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| hydrohead wrote: | | Nash Vegas wrote: | | Woj today said if Kidd was still with the Lakers, Vogel would already be fired. |
Maybe, but then again Woj is an a$$hat. |
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Outspoken
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Posts: 8450
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Nash Vegas wrote: | | Woj today said if Kidd was still with the Lakers, Vogel would already be fired. |
If the Lakers wanted Kidd as a coach, they should have made him a coach and Vogel a defensive assistant. I don't get the narrative that the Lakers hired Kidd to replace Vogel. It doesn't really make sense to me. |
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DrDent
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Outspoken wrote: | | Nash Vegas wrote: | | Woj today said if Kidd was still with the Lakers, Vogel would already be fired. |
If the Lakers wanted Kidd as a coach, they should have made him a coach and Vogel a defensive assistant. I don't get the narrative that the Lakers hired Kidd to replace Vogel. It doesn't really make sense to me. |
iirc That narrative was somewhat related around Giannis becoming a FA, and how Giannis liked Kidd as a coach back when he coached the Bucks. Folks connected the Lakers signing one of his brothers (Kostas) and Kidd to meaning there would be an eventual transition, if needed, for Kidd to become HC to lure Giannis.
No clue if true, but those were the bread crumbs that were baked into a fun little cake of a story.
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