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Inspector Gadget
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Joined: 18 Apr 2016
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 Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Watching Otto Porter Jr ball out for GS is depressing. |
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MJST
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Posts: 26309
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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| ahaider wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | ahaider wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | | LakerSD wrote: | | Quote: | | Here's the most alarming part about the Lakers' 10-11 start: they've had the softest schedule defensively and yet they rank 20th on that end of the floor. After tomorrow, they'll have played HOU 2x, OKC 2x and DET 2x. Only team in NBA who will have played the worst 3 offenses 2x. |
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We’re 2-9 against .500 or better teams. Those two wins were an OT win vs Charlotte and an OT win over a Jimmy Butler-less Heat. |
We didn't have Lebron for that Jimmy Butler matchup so I don't think it deserves any type of qualifier. I think for a team with as many new parts as ours - it's not unexpected. |
The Warriors sat their starters against Detroit and beat them handily. We had AD, LeBron and Westbrook and went minute for minute with them.
We are struggling vs teams we should be able to beat with stars resting and getting beaten handily by teams we're supposed to be even with. This is the problem. |
Yes they did. The warriors have two things we don’t.
1) Young players who buy into their defensive system and are positive forces on that end. Playing defense doesn’t need a star to support that endeavor.
2) Clear cut offensive identity such that players know their roles and how to move with/without the ball. Ball doesn’t get stuck in the hands of star players or role players.
The Warriors are heads and tails better than us in both capacities. Funny enough both of those areas are ownership related. I really believe that of the players we assembled we lack the youth to buoy the top end. I do believe this could be corrected if Pelinka is aggressive in hiring another offensive mind (Terry Stots)
Being aggressive for trades. I know our chest is limited but I think Nunn/THT will have a fair amount of pressure on them as they’re the most traceable pieces from both age & youth and also our gluttony of guards.
That said, I do think even the team as constructed will see upward trend against .500 teams. |
And how about the 9-10 Memphis team wrecking Sacramento currently, without Ja Morant?
Why didn't we do that, with our entire roster bar Nunn and Ariza available?
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LakerSD
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Joined: 10 Nov 2016
Posts: 23778
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Watching Otto Porter Jr ball out for GS is depressing. |
Right now, GS would put up 140 on the Lakers and probably win by 40. |
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RashardA
Star Player
Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 1377
Location: Santa Monica
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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The Warriors are the standard.
That's how you build a team for sustained success.
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Everyting negative - pressure, challenges - is all an opportunity for me to rise.
-Kobe Bryant |
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Laker's Fan
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Joined: 27 Jun 2002
Posts: 12850
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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| The Warriors spent $147 million in tax last season. This season they are scheduled to pay $170 million in tax. In other words, they are breaking the competitive controls the owners put in place by eschewing a profit motive. That's BAD for the league on multiple levels. |
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LakerSD
Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2016
Posts: 23778
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Laker's Fan wrote: | | The Warriors spent $147 million in tax last season. This season they are scheduled to pay $170 million in tax. In other words, they are breaking the competitive controls the owners put in place by eschewing a profit motive. That's BAD for the league on multiple levels. |
Ok, but that’s legal. Why isn’t the Buss family doing the same in a bigger market with a bigger TV deal and more sponsorship deals worldwide and domestically?
Rhetorical question. Answer is obvious. |
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Baron Von Humongous
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Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerSD wrote: | | Laker's Fan wrote: | | The Warriors spent $147 million in tax last season. This season they are scheduled to pay $170 million in tax. In other words, they are breaking the competitive controls the owners put in place by eschewing a profit motive. That's BAD for the league on multiple levels. |
Ok, but that’s legal. Why isn’t the Buss family doing the same in a bigger market with a bigger TV deal and more sponsorship deals worldwide and domestically?
Rhetorical question. Answer is obvious. |
Westbrook not being able (so far) to carry the team to regular season wins sans LeBron is damning, especially considering how much of a question mark he is in the playoffs.
Ironically, the luxury tax would be less onerous for Jeanie with Caruso and Hield under contract in place of Westbrook.
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Bol
Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 4045
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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| RashardA wrote: | The Warriors are the standard.
That's how you build a team for sustained success. |
Their success will last as long as Curry does. |
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activeverb
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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| RashardA wrote: | The Warriors are the standard.
That's how you build a team for sustained success. |
They've had a lot of good luck.
In a short period, they drafted Curry, Thompson, and Greene -- all of whom turned out to be much better than their draft position. And then they had the luck of the revenues shooting up, so they had cap space to sign Durant.
I don't know that they have any model that can be replicated, even by themselves after Curry hangs it up. |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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If we had drafted Lebron James in his prime like Warriors did Curry, the standard talk about Warriors .... come on. Last two years the Warriors were major issues with their cast. They re-did their entire cast, and it took 2 years. Both I think they missed the playoffs.
Meanwhile the Lakers have made the playoffs last year and are going for it again this year. We just don't have the same luxury of waiting like they do. They have Curry at a time in his career where he can still be a factor 2 years from now. Lebron could no longer be a Laker in 2 years.
It's important to know the difference in having a superstar in his prime vs a superstar still playing at an elite level but in the twighlight of his career. If we could mortgage the next 2 years and still have Bron/AD playing at a star level, we could probably do a lot of upgrades around them as well. AD may still be a star in 2 years but as I said, Bron isn't on the same time line as Curry/Green. |
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activeverb
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Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Laker's Fan wrote: | | The Warriors spent $147 million in tax last season. This season they are scheduled to pay $170 million in tax. In other words, they are breaking the competitive controls the owners put in place by eschewing a profit motive. That's BAD for the league on multiple levels. |
They aren't "breaking the competitive controls." They are playing by the same rules as everyone else.
I'm not sure they're eschewing the profit motive. They might merely be taking a short term hit, banking that the cost will be repaid in the team's success and appreciation. In the past decade, Warriors owners have made roughly $350 million a year in team appreciation.
And, of course, when the owners are a couple of billionaires, they can roll with some yearly losses. |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144461
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerSD wrote: | | Laker's Fan wrote: | | The Warriors spent $147 million in tax last season. This season they are scheduled to pay $170 million in tax. In other words, they are breaking the competitive controls the owners put in place by eschewing a profit motive. That's BAD for the league on multiple levels. |
Ok, but that’s legal. Why isn’t the Buss family doing the same in a bigger market with a bigger TV deal and more sponsorship deals worldwide and domestically?
Rhetorical question. Answer is obvious. |
Warriors own their own arena.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | LakerSD wrote: | | Laker's Fan wrote: | | The Warriors spent $147 million in tax last season. This season they are scheduled to pay $170 million in tax. In other words, they are breaking the competitive controls the owners put in place by eschewing a profit motive. That's BAD for the league on multiple levels. |
Ok, but that’s legal. Why isn’t the Buss family doing the same in a bigger market with a bigger TV deal and more sponsorship deals worldwide and domestically?
Rhetorical question. Answer is obvious. |
Warriors own their own arena. |
I think the bigger answer is the two owners of the Warriors are billionaires who can accept years of losing money on the team, while they enjoy the long-term appreciation.
I would guess that the Buss kids are less tolerant of losses, and Jeanne has to be careful where she draws the line on spending to keep everyone unruffled. She's already survived one attempted family coup, and she's probably smart enough to know what the various members of her family will and will not accept.
The Warriors owners don't have that problem. If the two of them decide to spend, they don't have to answer to anyone else. |
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LGFan
Star Player
Joined: 07 Jun 2021
Posts: 1860
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | If we had drafted Lebron James in his prime like Warriors did Curry, the standard talk about Warriors .... come on. Last two years the Warriors were major issues with their cast. They re-did their entire cast, and it took 2 years. Both I think they missed the playoffs.
Meanwhile the Lakers have made the playoffs last year and are going for it again this year. We just don't have the same luxury of waiting like they do. They have Curry at a time in his career where he can still be a factor 2 years from now. Lebron could no longer be a Laker in 2 years.
It's important to know the difference in having a superstar in his prime vs a superstar still playing at an elite level but in the twighlight of his career. If we could mortgage the next 2 years and still have Bron/AD playing at a star level, we could probably do a lot of upgrades around them as well. AD may still be a star in 2 years but as I said, Bron isn't on the same time line as Curry/Green. |
they also got lucky twice.
they were desperately trying to trade curry and stupid bucks wanted Monta Ellis over Curry for A Bogut
Cap Spiked at a time when KD became UFA. |
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mad55557777
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Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 23128
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | Laker's Fan wrote: | | The Warriors spent $147 million in tax last season. This season they are scheduled to pay $170 million in tax. In other words, they are breaking the competitive controls the owners put in place by eschewing a profit motive. That's BAD for the league on multiple levels. |
They aren't "breaking the competitive controls." They are playing by the same rules as everyone else.
I'm not sure they're eschewing the profit motive. They might merely be taking a short term hit, banking that the cost will be repaid in the team's success and appreciation. In the past decade, Warriors owners have made roughly $350 million a year in team appreciation.
And, of course, when the owners are a couple of billionaires, they can roll with some yearly losses. |
Warriors earned 700 mil last season (Covid), they will earn more than that, they can simply afford the tax bill. Why not pay for the tax bill and win championships when you get a chance? Especially the alternative would be the dreaded revenue sharing( I am not sure how NBA calculates revenue generated by teams own arena).
Jeanie blow this one big time |
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mad55557777
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Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 23128
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | LakerSD wrote: | | Laker's Fan wrote: | | The Warriors spent $147 million in tax last season. This season they are scheduled to pay $170 million in tax. In other words, they are breaking the competitive controls the owners put in place by eschewing a profit motive. That's BAD for the league on multiple levels. |
Ok, but that’s legal. Why isn’t the Buss family doing the same in a bigger market with a bigger TV deal and more sponsorship deals worldwide and domestically?
Rhetorical question. Answer is obvious. |
Warriors own their own arena. |
I think the bigger answer is the two owners of the Warriors are billionaires who can accept years of losing money on the team, while they enjoy the long-term appreciation.
I would guess that the Buss kids are less tolerant of losses, and Jeanne has to be careful where she draws the line on spending to keep everyone unruffled. She's already survived one attempted family coup, and she's probably smart enough to know what the various members of her family will and will not accept.
The Warriors owners don't have that problem. If the two of them decide to spend, they don't have to answer to anyone else. |
What money did they lose? The arena is on a loan, and they generate crazy amount of money every year which covers much more than the payment. Warriors debt ratio is 20%, lakers is at 1-2%. Jeanie just won’t take the risk like ballmer or she would’ve found a way to buy that Inglewood space long time ago. |
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Swagron12
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Joined: 27 Sep 2020
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| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 4:43 am Post subject: |
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| Why are Bradley and Jordan on this team? Both offer absolutely zero to the Lakers. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
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| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:20 am Post subject: |
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| mad55557777 wrote: | Warriors earned 700 mil last season (Covid), they will earn more than that, they can simply afford the tax bill. Why not pay for the tax bill and win championships when you get a chance? Especially the alternative would be the dreaded revenue sharing( I am not sure how NBA calculates revenue generated by teams own arena).
Jeanie blow this one big time |
I'm not so sure about the $700M number. I recall that there were some really big estimates a few years ago, but that was before Covid. It's not so clear whether the Warriors actually realized revenues at that level. But sure, the Warriors are a high revenue team, and their owners have the financial ability to absorb a ton of luxury tax if they want to. As AV said, the ultimate payoff here is franchise valuation.
More generally, I'm not sure how impressed we should be with the argument that owners should break the bank on luxury tax. Fans are always going to be willing to spend other people's money. You see this all the time in European football. If a team has the audacity to turn a profit, the fans get all bent out of shape. They all complain about teams that are owned by a Russian oligarch, Qatar, the UAE, or now Saudi Arabia, but secretly they all dream of having that kind of owner. Whether this is a good thing for the sport is another matter.
Anyway, the Lakers are fundamentally a family business. If Dr. Buss had the good sense to sell the team, we might have a zillionaire owner. That might or might not be a good thing. Ask a Knicks fan about that. But Dr. Buss turned the franchise over to his mediocre kids. Individually, they do not have bottomless pockets. That's just the reality of the situation.
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governator
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Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:40 am Post subject: |
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| Maybe, just maybe, Bron and AD still getting the summer rust off, Westbrook is getting more acclimated and Nunn/Ariza are just superior perimeter defenders than anyone have playing now, granted we also still need Melo to be that 2nd unit microwave… slowed playoff pace, we might have a chance |
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PenG_
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Joined: 01 Feb 2020
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| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 6:05 am Post subject: |
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| Laker's Fan wrote: | | The Warriors spent $147 million in tax last season. This season they are scheduled to pay $170 million in tax. In other words, they are breaking the competitive controls the owners put in place by eschewing a profit motive. That's BAD for the league on multiple levels. |
Steph is the most spoiled player in the NBA. He's also currently the best.
Tough combo for the league. |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 6:19 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Anyway, the Lakers are fundamentally a family business. If Dr. Buss had the good sense to sell the team, we might have a zillionaire owner. That might or might not be a good thing. Ask a Knicks fan about that. But Dr. Buss turned the franchise over to his mediocre kids. Individually, they do not have bottomless pockets. That's just the reality of the situation. |
It should be noted that Jeanie is following her dad's instructions and vision. In 2021 it may not be popular to operate this way, but in general Dr Buss only paid big longterm contracts to mega stars. He also didn't like paying huge sums to head coaches.
Phil Jackson was the only Lakers HC in Dr Buss era who got paid market value, and even Phil was often asked to take a paycut (and then did in fact take one).
The stars got paid, but even Shaq, was shown the door when he began to ask for max money going into his 30s.. Role players rarely got market value. For example, we sign and traded Glen Rice right after he won a ring as a 3rd option as Rice was a free agent, and when the Lakers had come off a 67 win season. We allowed the assets from the Rice trade (Ho Grant for example) to walk. We waived Brian Shaw. We allowed Rob Horry to go to an enemy in San Antonio after we signed Malone, for a 5M team option. Horry still hit big shots in SAN. Lamar Odom had extensive FA discussions after he was the 3rd best player in a title run, and it took months to get the deal done. Even then, the deal was set up in a way LO would be gone by year 3. Ariza was allowed to walk, because instead of MLE money he wanted 2M on top of the MLE amount at that time. Ariza was a great great fit in the offense and a very good wing defender. We had his bird rights and could have paid him more than the MLE, but we refused and went for a worse fit in Ron Artest.
Point is Dr Buss never paid his role players much, and aside from Phil (who he asked to take a paycut and never really liked that much) no head coach was paid premium longterm money. Mostly HCs get 3 year deals. Mostly, role players get paid shorter contracts and that franchise stars get the big deals.
It is what it is. Whether this model works longterm in 2020-2030 lets see. It helped Jeanie get one title, as Vogel was chosen on a 3 year deal over Ty Lue/Monty for 5. Does Dr Buss do any different there? Nah. Does Dr. Buss pay Caruso? I don't know. In 2004, he let Fisher walk. Fisher was a starter on championship teams, and I've often compared Fisher's value to those teams and Caruso's (in different ways). Point is, I don't think the Buss family has ever ran the team without taking the financials into account and has always operated it as a business they depend to gain from the profits. The Covid situation cost the Buss family a lot of money. No way Dr. Buss loses a year+ of ticket revenue and game revenue, and ends up paying two role players like Caruso/THT and foots a lux tax bill. |
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roger_federer
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Joined: 01 Mar 2020
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| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 6:24 am Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | Maybe, just maybe, Bron and AD still getting the summer rust off, Westbrook is getting more acclimated and Nunn/Ariza are just superior perimeter defenders than anyone have playing now, granted we also still need Melo to be that 2nd unit microwave… slowed playoff pace, we might have a chance |
slow pace, WB is useless. fast pace, entire team is useless |
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governator
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| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 6:42 am Post subject: |
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| roger_federer wrote: | | governator wrote: | | Maybe, just maybe, Bron and AD still getting the summer rust off, Westbrook is getting more acclimated and Nunn/Ariza are just superior perimeter defenders than anyone have playing now, granted we also still need Melo to be that 2nd unit microwave… slowed playoff pace, we might have a chance |
slow pace, WB is useless. fast pace, entire team is useless |
Federer! Hah, maybe, but the 2 man game between WB-AD and WB-Bron are looking better and better (in half court nonetheless) especially with Bron as the pick setter (even the Reaves-Bron 2 man game looked good). Getting optimistic, the peak is still months away |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:47 am Post subject: |
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| mad55557777 wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | Laker's Fan wrote: | | The Warriors spent $147 million in tax last season. This season they are scheduled to pay $170 million in tax. In other words, they are breaking the competitive controls the owners put in place by eschewing a profit motive. That's BAD for the league on multiple levels. |
They aren't "breaking the competitive controls." They are playing by the same rules as everyone else.
I'm not sure they're eschewing the profit motive. They might merely be taking a short term hit, banking that the cost will be repaid in the team's success and appreciation. In the past decade, Warriors owners have made roughly $350 million a year in team appreciation.
And, of course, when the owners are a couple of billionaires, they can roll with some yearly losses. |
Warriors earned 700 mil last season (Covid), they will earn more than that, they can simply afford the tax bill. Why not pay for the tax bill and win championships when you get a chance? Especially the alternative would be the dreaded revenue sharing( I am not sure how NBA calculates revenue generated by teams own arena).
Jeanie blow this one big time |
I know the $700 million figure was bandied around pre-covid. According to Forbes, the Warriors had $258 million in revenues last year and an operating loss of $44 million. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:01 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | mad55557777 wrote: | Warriors earned 700 mil last season (Covid), they will earn more than that, they can simply afford the tax bill. Why not pay for the tax bill and win championships when you get a chance? Especially the alternative would be the dreaded revenue sharing( I am not sure how NBA calculates revenue generated by teams own arena).
Jeanie blow this one big time |
I'm not so sure about the $700M number. I recall that there were some really big estimates a few years ago, but that was before Covid. It's not so clear whether the Warriors actually realized revenues at that level. But sure, the Warriors are a high revenue team, and their owners have the financial ability to absorb a ton of luxury tax if they want to. As AV said, the ultimate payoff here is franchise valuation.
More generally, I'm not sure how impressed we should be with the argument that owners should break the bank on luxury tax. Fans are always going to be willing to spend other people's money. You see this all the time in European football. If a team has the audacity to turn a profit, the fans get all bent out of shape. They all complain about teams that are owned by a Russian oligarch, Qatar, the UAE, or now Saudi Arabia, but secretly they all dream of having that kind of owner. Whether this is a good thing for the sport is another matter.
Anyway, the Lakers are fundamentally a family business. If Dr. Buss had the good sense to sell the team, we might have a zillionaire owner. That might or might not be a good thing. Ask a Knicks fan about that. But Dr. Buss turned the franchise over to his mediocre kids. Individually, they do not have bottomless pockets. That's just the reality of the situation. |
I also don't buy the notion that spending without reservation is inherently a good thing. The Knicks are the perfect example of how a lack of financial restraint can torpedo a franchise. And even if an owner has bottomless pockets, they usually don't want to lose money -- that's how they got bottomless pockets in the first place.
And for all people complain about the Lakers spending, they are typically one of the highest salary teams in the league, Occasionally, they let a solid player go because of salary concerns (Horry, Caruso come to mind). That's irritating from a fan standpoint. But it's not like the Lakers are Donald Sterling in his heyday. |
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