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lakerican
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Joined: 09 May 2005
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 Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:31 am Post subject: |
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| audioaxes wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | | audioaxes wrote: | | if the 76ers really turned down a Pacers package centered around Malcom Brogdan and Caris Levert, Morey needs to be tried for malpractice |
Is that winning them a title? I understand Morey hoping to package SImmons into a better star, and not the reverse.
Also, I like Brogdan and Levert, but cant think of two guys who struggle more to stay on the court. |
I think those two alone are definitely an upgrade over Simmons who disappears in the 4th quarter and playoffs. Combine that with getting maybe another piece or pick and that is a no-brainer in my book.
I think Brogdan is one of most underappreciated guys in the NBA. He's not a household name because he isnt doing flashy stuff on the court or dropping 40 in a game but he is just an all-round good basketball player who I'd peg into a Kris Middleton tier.
-above average shooter who notched a 50-40-90 season
- a good passer with solid assist to TO ratio
-averaged over 20ppg last season
-solid defender
And then Levert is a serious bucket getter who would kill it in a 6th man role for a contender. |
Of course it is an upgrade. In Reddit I suggest the Wiz should offer DBertrans & Kuzma |
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JUST-MING
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:34 am Post subject: |
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| bluehill wrote: | | LakerSD wrote: | | bluehill wrote: | | I guess Simmons/Klutch's plan is to show up and be a distraction. Force the rest of the team to deal with the issue. It will be interesting to see if it works. |
It’s a good short-term strategy in terms of a) they either send Simmons home, he gets the $ or b) he gets his wish and is traded.
Long-term though this will leave a mark unless he starts performing like a star again.
I don’t know who would trade for him tbh. Even GS is hesitant imo. |
Yeah, I thought it helped Morey when Simmons was refusing to report. Saved some money and shielded the rest of the team.
The money is probably less of a concern than the effect of the uncertainty and distraction. It's like the few weeks leading up to the trade deadline except it's starting at the beginning of the season. |
Morey thinks the trade offers will improve now? What happens if Ben is traded to a team he doesn’t want? He refuses to report to practice, then is a distraction for his new team. What happens if Ben is not traded? He remains a day-to-day distraction, the team underperforms, misses the playoffs. |
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bluehill
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| Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:45 am Post subject: |
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| Kblo247! wrote: | | bluehill wrote: | | I guess Simmons/Klutch's plan is to show up and be a distraction. Force the rest of the team to deal with the issue. It will be interesting to see if it works. |
It is what harden did to get out Houston. It’s what Vince did to get out Toronto. It’s not a bad plan. The thing is the Sixers are talking a lot but they would suck yearly if Ben didn’t carry that team for Joel’s 20 game vacation every year on both ends. When he doesn’t go into another gear like he always does, they will be a fringe play in team.
People act like Ben is all to blame but Ben was the only starter that playoff game who was a positive on the floor. Ben held Young in check. Bend didn’t turn the ball over 8 damn times, Joel did. Ben also didn’t get held scoreless by Marc before. Ben didn’t miss a playoff game for a stomach ache before. Ben didn’t shoot 40% as a 7 footer in the playoffs versus the Raptors, or get lit up by kawhi either, but Joel sure was awful and Jimmy got cooked and ben had to take him. Ben also hasn’t drug Doc or Joel in the press, 1 time in his whole career, as he’s never said one negative word about them to the media out loud, but people go always say sources say his camp says despite Ben when Charles and Shaq was on Joel’s ass coming to defend him in the media.
Is he being truly professional? No. Had he always been professional before they threw him under a bus and kept quiet? Yep. Is Ben a guy who Joel has never won a playoff game without in his career? Yep got his ass swept, but Ben has won playoff and season games without him before which people forget. |
Maybe that's why Morey is holding out for a better deal. I don't know what the issue is between Joel and Ben, but probably didn't help when key leaders of team seemed to make Simmons the scapegoat for their early flameout and probably why no other teams are in a hurry to make good offer.
Morey will gain some leverage as the season progresses. Teams that are in contention for a chip or could make a deep playoff run will assess what they need or maybe they'll have some injuries, so they may be willing to step up. But until then, the Sixers locker room could be pretty rocky. |
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lakerican
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| Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:56 am Post subject: |
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| You know what's the problem. HE REALLY WAS!! |
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gng930
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Joined: 13 Apr 2001
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| Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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| audioaxes wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | | audioaxes wrote: | | if the 76ers really turned down a Pacers package centered around Malcom Brogdan and Caris Levert, Morey needs to be tried for malpractice |
Is that winning them a title? I understand Morey hoping to package SImmons into a better star, and not the reverse.
Also, I like Brogdan and Levert, but cant think of two guys who struggle more to stay on the court. |
I think those two alone are definitely an upgrade over Simmons who disappears in the 4th quarter and playoffs. Combine that with getting maybe another piece or pick and that is a no-brainer in my book.
I think Brogdan is one of most underappreciated guys in the NBA. He's not a household name because he isnt doing flashy stuff on the court or dropping 40 in a game but he is just an all-round good basketball player who I'd peg into a Kris Middleton tier.
-above average shooter who notched a 50-40-90 season
- a good passer with solid assist to TO ratio
-averaged over 20ppg last season
-solid defender
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Before last year's playoffs I wouldn't have necessarily disagreed with this. To me it seemed like both Middleton and Holiday were really good #3s on a contender. Then Money Middleton emerged as a very good #2 and closer. Brogdon, even when healthy, has not demonstrated that ability yet. He could though when given the opportunity but I think it's more likely he doesn't get to that level. Levert has #3 potential but he doesn't have Holiday-level impact.
I think that's what Philly is seeing but that may be the best deal available at this point. How ugly are they willing to let it get while they wait for the Lilliard and Beal situations to play out?
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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| bluehill wrote: | | I guess Simmons/Klutch's plan is to show up and be a distraction. Force the rest of the team to deal with the issue. It will be interesting to see if it works. |
It's a trainwreck but we can't stop but watch. Everyone knows he's probably not going to play another game as a 76er, they are trying to get a decent package so they don't lose him for peanuts. |
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P.K.
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| Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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| bluehill wrote: | | I guess Simmons/Klutch's plan is to show up and be a distraction. Force the rest of the team to deal with the issue. It will be interesting to see if it works. |
Reports are that Simmons was suspended for refusing (twice) to enter a defensive drill.
So, if the plan is that Simmons wants to be a distraction, he's handling it wrong. While I don't advocate for this, all he really needs to do is participate in every drill and every practice - at about 1/2 speed and effort.
Likewise, in every game he plays in, he should shoot really long range 3's every time he touches the ball. Or, he should throw 10 lazy passes that get intercepted for layups. And, he should play defense like Harden and let people waltz to the basket.
The Sixers wouldn't be able to fine him or suspend him if he was participating in everything they tell him to do - there's nothing in any NBA contract that says he can only shoot high % shots, or he can't have turnovers, or or or
Again, I'm not advocating this - I'm merely pointing out that he can screw the Sixers over a lot more with silent insolence then he can by getting suspended without pay.
He's also had a well documented history of back injury - I'd imagine there will be "back spasms" throughout the year. If it was me, it'd be "back spasms" every single game after I'd played 5 minutes. Back spasms cannot be detected by any testing...
just saying
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AFireInside619
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| Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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Sixers tried to trade Simmons for Harden. The deal fell through and now he’s expected to shoot 3’s and be happy. I really don’t care who wins or loses in this, but I do know I wouldn’t give my all to a team who tried to trade me.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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| JUST-MING wrote: | | troy wrote: | | Mr. Ben Simmons needs a reality check. Someone making millions of dollars just to play a game shouldn't be frowning and pouting like an 8 year old. |
That’s why the team should have traded him already. The team is throwing away next season by having this distraction around. The media will ask the same questions after every practice, after every game. He only hurts the team by being around it. |
Yes, they should have traded him right away, I don’t see offers improving.
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activeverb
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| Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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| AFireInside619 wrote: | | Sixers tried to trade Simmons for Harden. The deal fell through and now he’s expected to shoot 3’s and be happy. I really don’t care who wins or loses in this, but I do know I wouldn’t give my all to a team who tried to trade me. |
To me, that's a petty attitude.
Being traded is just part of being a professional athlete.
Simmons isn't helping his reputation by acting like a petulant child. |
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bluehill
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| Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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| P.K. wrote: | | bluehill wrote: | | I guess Simmons/Klutch's plan is to show up and be a distraction. Force the rest of the team to deal with the issue. It will be interesting to see if it works. |
Reports are that Simmons was suspended for refusing (twice) to enter a defensive drill.
So, if the plan is that Simmons wants to be a distraction, he's handling it wrong. While I don't advocate for this, all he really needs to do is participate in every drill and every practice - at about 1/2 speed and effort.
Likewise, in every game he plays in, he should shoot really long range 3's every time he touches the ball. Or, he should throw 10 lazy passes that get intercepted for layups. And, he should play defense like Harden and let people waltz to the basket.
The Sixers wouldn't be able to fine him or suspend him if he was participating in everything they tell him to do - there's nothing in any NBA contract that says he can only shoot high % shots, or he can't have turnovers, or or or
Again, I'm not advocating this - I'm merely pointing out that he can screw the Sixers over a lot more with silent insolence then he can by getting suspended without pay.
He's also had a well documented history of back injury - I'd imagine there will be "back spasms" throughout the year. If it was me, it'd be "back spasms" every single game after I'd played 5 minutes. Back spasms cannot be detected by any testing...
just saying |
I wouldn't be surprised if that's next. It might not even have to be that blatant. He's the point guard so he's got a lot of control over the action. Maybe he does't run the play quite right. Holds on to the ball a little too long. Passes it to Embid with a few seconds on the shot clock and force him to take a bad shot.
I'm sure he can do things that most fans won't notice, I certainly won't, but Doc will. If Doc feels like he can't trust Simmons to run the plays, now Doc has to decide whether and when he can play him. What a mess. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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If Simmons purposely causes the team to lose then his credibility in the league would be shot. Owners wouldn’t want to waste get min money on him. According to some reports from some FO execs around the league, his credibility is already being questioned.
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lakersfever714
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| Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | If Simmons purposely causes the team to lose then his credibility in the league would be shot. Owners wouldn’t want to waste get min money on him. According to some reports from some FO execs around the league, his credibility is already being questioned. |
Questioned? But I bet you if any of those GMs has got a chance to get him, they'd do it in a heartbeat. It's a superstar league. That means teams would go out of their ways to acquire superstars. Look at KD, Klay and Kawhi. Teams would pay those guys max money while they do nothing. A little character issue isn't going to change anything.
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PlantedTanks
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| Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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| I would hope Klutch would advise him that he still needs to compete on the court. That is his value and reputation he is jeopardizing by his actions. He can still make it untenable for the 76ers but there is a limit to how you tank your play which also affects your teammates. |
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P.K.
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| Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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Some of you guys are forgetting that Simmons still has a 4 year contract, and is gonna get paid regardless.
He can easily spend a year or 2 playing like ass and giving 1/2 effort in practice, then get traded someplace and use the remaining 2-3 years to rehab his image in time for his next contract.
It's a superstar league, and Simmons (while he can's shoot) is still a generational talent (who's very young still). ALL of the owners in the league might hate what he's doing, but 1/2 of them will take him on their teams in a heartbeat for the right price.
_________________
LBJ + AD = More rings
Never argue with a fool - listeners can't tell you apart
Wilt's unstoppable fadeaway: www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O9MgNfcGJA
NPZ's Magic Johnson mix: www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8Qbo0WqvOI |
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | If Simmons purposely causes the team to lose then his credibility in the league would be shot. Owners wouldn’t want to waste get min money on him. According to some reports from some FO execs around the league, his credibility is already being questioned. |
He's probably not going to be in a 76er uniform ever again, and they haven't traded him. Reality is they need to get the best deal now and just let him go. |
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gng930
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Joined: 13 Apr 2001
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| Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersfever714 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | If Simmons purposely causes the team to lose then his credibility in the league would be shot. Owners wouldn’t want to waste get min money on him. According to some reports from some FO execs around the league, his credibility is already being questioned. |
Questioned? But I bet you if any of those GMs has got a chance to get him, they'd do it in a heartbeat. It's a superstar league. That means teams would go out of their ways to acquire superstars. Look at KD, Klay and Kawhi. Teams would pay those guys max money while they do nothing. A little character issue isn't going to change anything. |
Yeah, remember when they were saying this about Harden last year? Then he balled out in Brooklyn and the narrative is now about he exercised his player empowerment to get out of a bad situation and whether he should take the max extension now or see what he can get as a FA next year. Obviously Simmons is not on his level but pretty much any GM would consider themselves lucky to get Simmons for anything near the minimum.
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SGV-Laker fan
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| Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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| as much as i hate Morey in his Houston days, i'm with him on this one. if i were him, i'm NOT trading Simmons, period. let him pout, getting suspensions and losing paychecks. because the jury's out on Simmons, he's an one-dimensional talent with a BAD BAD BAD attitude, who in the right mind would trade anything worthwhile for him? the loser will be Ben Simmons when all this is said and done. i just hope Rich Paul realizes this and cut tie with Simmons. |
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Only other situation where I can think of a team keeping a disgruntled player is Kobe. Obviously much different situation, nobody ever questioned his talent, it was him questioning whether he had the horses around him where they could make a deep playoff run. |
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PlantedTanks
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| Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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| P.K. wrote: | Some of you guys are forgetting that Simmons still has a 4 year contract, and is gonna get paid regardless.
He can easily spend a year or 2 playing like ass and giving 1/2 effort in practice, then get traded someplace and use the remaining 2-3 years to rehab his image in time for his next contract.
It's a superstar league, and Simmons (while he can's shoot) is still a generational talent (who's very young still). ALL of the owners in the league might hate what he's doing, but 1/2 of them will take him on their teams in a heartbeat for the right price. |
If he tanks on the court as you suggest which will cost his teammates $'s through lost playoff shares and on your next contract then his teammates will surely give him some physical business whether in the locker room or on the practice court. You can screw an organization but you don't screw your teammates.
I am not sure what he has done to earn a Superstar label. All Star yes, superstar ????? |
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2019
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| Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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| SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | as much as i hate Morey in his Houston days, i'm with him on this one. if i were him, i'm NOT trading Simmons, period. let him pout, getting suspensions and losing paychecks. because the jury's out on Simmons, he's an one-dimensional talent with a BAD BAD BAD attitude, who in the right mind would trade anything worthwhile for him? the loser will be Ben Simmons when all this is said and done. i just hope Rich Paul realizes this and cut tie with Simmons. |
If you really feel all those negative things toward him, why not trade him instead of trying to force him to begrudgingly come back? Just take the best package you can get and move the F on.
All parties played this one very wrong. |
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PlantedTanks
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| Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | Only other situation where I can think of a team keeping a disgruntled player is Kobe. Obviously much different situation, nobody ever questioned his talent, it was him questioning whether he had the horses around him where they could make a deep playoff run. |
Also Kobe vs. Shaq.
maybe before your time but Magic demanding a trade vs. coach Paul Westhead |
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PlantedTanks
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| Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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| 2019 wrote: | | SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | as much as i hate Morey in his Houston days, i'm with him on this one. if i were him, i'm NOT trading Simmons, period. let him pout, getting suspensions and losing paychecks. because the jury's out on Simmons, he's an one-dimensional talent with a BAD BAD BAD attitude, who in the right mind would trade anything worthwhile for him? the loser will be Ben Simmons when all this is said and done. i just hope Rich Paul realizes this and cut tie with Simmons. |
If you really feel all those negative things toward him, why not trade him instead of trying to force him to begrudgingly come back? Just take the best package you can get and move the F on.
All parties played this one very wrong. |
Because Morey is too full of himself and likes to control the narrative. Agree he should have been traded long ago. |
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Outspoken
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| Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Simmons may eventually be a Laker. |
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Kobetan
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| Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Outspoken wrote: | | Simmons may eventually be a Laker. |
Then we may very well go down in history, as the best team that can't shoot. Not the best team, but just the best 'non shooting star players' team |
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