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Lonzo-Lite
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Aeneas Hunter
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 Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:26 am Post subject: |
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| Dr. Laker wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Chick's Magic Johnson wrote: | | This Ben Simmons situation is pretty interesting. Klutch and player empowerment aside, I totally get where he's coming from. His head coach and management basically threw him under the bus at the end of last season. Why would you return for that BS? |
Because you signed a contract. That may or may not be persuasive, depending on your personal viewpoint on these sorts of things. So here’s another way of looking at the situation. Simmons played poorly in the playoffs and looked foolish when he passed out of an open dunk. He got ripped up by pretty much everyone. Well, this happens in sports. Is Simmons really such a prima donna that he can’t take the heat? In the end, this is all due to his own failures. So sure, he’s entitled to be feel stung by what Rivers and Embiid said. But now he’s going to take his toys and go home. Boo hoo.
So why would you put up with this “BS”? Because you’re a freaking professional athlete who gets paid an eight figure salary. You are not exempt from taking flak when you play badly in a critical game. Your coach and your teammates shouldn’t have to worry about your poor widdle ego. |
Years of working in the Entertainment Industry and other business ventures have shown me that contracts are mutable. Years in senior management have taught me that 99.9% of the time, it's better to let a disgruntled person walk, regardless of their contract situation.
Of course . . . if you can extract some advantage, compensation or improvement in the transition process, you do so. But there is little to gain by extending a toxic situation other than a symbolic showing of who has the bigger wee-wee.
I blame Morey, a longtime professional, for letting this drag on. |
I hear you, and my own personal experiences as an employment lawyer back up what you are saying 100%. The problem is that the regular business world doesn't operate within the salary cap structure of the NBA. Yes, it would be better for all concerned if this soap opera came to a quick end. But Simmons does not want out of his contract. In theory, he could agree to a nominal buyout, but he would be insane to do that. At this point, he'd be playing for the vet min somewhere and hoping that someone clears some cap space for him next year. Likewise, the Sixers couldn't just sign another star with the cap space, if any, that resulted from buying out Simmons. So it has to be a trade. If the Sixers trade him, they have to live with whatever comes back.
The worst case scenario is what we are seeing right here in Houston: the Deshaun Watson saga. He signed a big contract, then threw a hissy fit about the front office (with some justification, to be sure). He was never going to play for the Texans again, right? Then came all of the sexual misconduct lawsuits. He had to report to training camp to keep his salary from getting eaten up with fines, but the Texans aren't going to play him. Meanwhile, other teams aren't going to offer much of anything for him, because a lot of their own fans would go ballistic and because he may be subject to a suspension from the league or even possibly criminal prosecution. Can you imagine trading for Watson, and then having him get indicted for sexual assault? What a fiasco.
So let's hope for all concerned that Ben Simmons stays out of trouble.
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Dr. Laker
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2021 11:06 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Chick's Magic Johnson wrote: | | This Ben Simmons situation is pretty interesting. Klutch and player empowerment aside, I totally get where he's coming from. His head coach and management basically threw him under the bus at the end of last season. Why would you return for that BS? |
Because you signed a contract. That may or may not be persuasive, depending on your personal viewpoint on these sorts of things. So here’s another way of looking at the situation. Simmons played poorly in the playoffs and looked foolish when he passed out of an open dunk. He got ripped up by pretty much everyone. Well, this happens in sports. Is Simmons really such a prima donna that he can’t take the heat? In the end, this is all due to his own failures. So sure, he’s entitled to be feel stung by what Rivers and Embiid said. But now he’s going to take his toys and go home. Boo hoo.
So why would you put up with this “BS”? Because you’re a freaking professional athlete who gets paid an eight figure salary. You are not exempt from taking flak when you play badly in a critical game. Your coach and your teammates shouldn’t have to worry about your poor widdle ego. |
Years of working in the Entertainment Industry and other business ventures have shown me that contracts are mutable. Years in senior management have taught me that 99.9% of the time, it's better to let a disgruntled person walk, regardless of their contract situation.
Of course . . . if you can extract some advantage, compensation or improvement in the transition process, you do so. But there is little to gain by extending a toxic situation other than a symbolic showing of who has the bigger wee-wee.
I blame Morey, a longtime professional, for letting this drag on. |
I hear you, and my own personal experiences as an employment lawyer back up what you are saying 100%. The problem is that the regular business world doesn't operate within the salary cap structure of the NBA. Yes, it would be better for all concerned if this soap opera came to a quick end. But Simmons does not want out of his contract. In theory, he could agree to a nominal buyout, but he would be insane to do that. At this point, he'd be playing for the vet min somewhere and hoping that someone clears some cap space for him next year. Likewise, the Sixers couldn't just sign another star with the cap space, if any, that resulted from buying out Simmons. So it has to be a trade. If the Sixers trade him, they have to live with whatever comes back.
The worst case scenario is what we are seeing right here in Houston: the Deshaun Watson saga. He signed a big contract, then threw a hissy fit about the front office (with some justification, to be sure). He was never going to play for the Texans again, right? Then came all of the sexual misconduct lawsuits. He had to report to training camp to keep his salary from getting eaten up with fines, but the Texans aren't going to play him. Meanwhile, other teams aren't going to offer much of anything for him, because a lot of their own fans would go ballistic and because he may be subject to a suspension from the league or even possibly criminal prosecution. Can you imagine trading for Watson, and then having him get indicted for sexual assault? What a fiasco.
So let's hope for all concerned that Ben Simmons stays out of trouble. |
Bingo and ditto. At least Houston has a potential way out of Watson's deal in a few years. I'm sure they're hoping for criminal charges to rescue them and allow them to void his deal. Of course, I'd have dealt him to Miami and taken the hit.
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vasashi17+
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2021 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Per LA Times Dan Woike: It’s not as exciting as chasing Simmons, but the Lakers will probably be involved in some roster moves over the next week as they get ready for training camp. Their 14th roster spot is probably earmarked for a veteran who could be available if needed — but who will likely spend most of the time on the bench. A few names to keep an eye on for either that spot or a camp invite include wing James Ennis and point guard Tim Frazier, a close friend of Davis.
https://www.latimes.com/sports/story/2021-09-21/nba-roundtable-ben-simmons-76ers-trade-potential
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AD/Noel frontcourt would have been low key lit. Hope this isn’t true...
| Quote: | The complaint claims that the Houston Rockets, Los Angeles Lakers and Philadelphia 76ers had interest in signing Noel as a free agent in recent offseasons,” wrote Ian Begley of SportsNet New York. “But Noel, allegedly, was unaware of the interest because Paul didn’t return calls from those teams.
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Also Cook to Portland on a nonguaranteed vet min deal.
https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1440390213700755462
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2021 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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| It looks like the Lakers know Ennis only has the Lakers on his wish list so they aren’t in a rush to sign him, he would be a nice addition. |
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King Randle
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2021 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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| King Randle wrote: | https://www.instagram.com/p/CUGJOcrl_Ay/?utm_medium=copy_link
I find this very hard to believe. |
Yeah, the Monta Ellis story was reported a day or two ago. It's hard to believe that this is serious.
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2021 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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| King Randle wrote: | https://www.instagram.com/p/CUGJOcrl_Ay/?utm_medium=copy_link
I find this very hard to believe. |
It is, I prefer Darren Collison over someone who hasn’t played in the NBA in a long time if we are looking for another PG, his agent is probably trying to boost his clients value by putting the Lakers name in public. |
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cital
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2021 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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| I cant believe we are still looking at guards, seems like the forward position is where we need depth.... totally thought Ennis would be a lock after we traded Gasol. |
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Jordan-esque
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LakerSD
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Chick's Magic Johnson
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Chick's Magic Johnson wrote: | | This Ben Simmons situation is pretty interesting. Klutch and player empowerment aside, I totally get where he's coming from. His head coach and management basically threw him under the bus at the end of last season. Why would you return for that BS? |
Because you signed a contract. That may or may not be persuasive, depending on your personal viewpoint on these sorts of things. So here’s another way of looking at the situation. Simmons played poorly in the playoffs and looked foolish when he passed out of an open dunk. He got ripped up by pretty much everyone. Well, this happens in sports. Is Simmons really such a prima donna that he can’t take the heat? In the end, this is all due to his own failures. So sure, he’s entitled to be feel stung by what Rivers and Embiid said. But now he’s going to take his toys and go home. Boo hoo.
So why would you put up with this “BS”? Because you’re a freaking professional athlete who gets paid an eight figure salary. You are not exempt from taking flak when you play badly in a critical game. Your coach and your teammates shouldn’t have to worry about your poor widdle ego. |
Years of working in the Entertainment Industry and other business ventures have shown me that contracts are mutable. Years in senior management have taught me that 99.9% of the time, it's better to let a disgruntled person walk, regardless of their contract situation.
Of course . . . if you can extract some advantage, compensation or improvement in the transition process, you do so. But there is little to gain by extending a toxic situation other than a symbolic showing of who has the bigger wee-wee.
I blame Morey, a longtime professional, for letting this drag on. |
I hear you, and my own personal experiences as an employment lawyer back up what you are saying 100%. The problem is that the regular business world doesn't operate within the salary cap structure of the NBA. Yes, it would be better for all concerned if this soap opera came to a quick end. But Simmons does not want out of his contract. In theory, he could agree to a nominal buyout, but he would be insane to do that. At this point, he'd be playing for the vet min somewhere and hoping that someone clears some cap space for him next year. Likewise, the Sixers couldn't just sign another star with the cap space, if any, that resulted from buying out Simmons. So it has to be a trade. If the Sixers trade him, they have to live with whatever comes back.
The worst case scenario is what we are seeing right here in Houston: the Deshaun Watson saga. He signed a big contract, then threw a hissy fit about the front office (with some justification, to be sure). He was never going to play for the Texans again, right? Then came all of the sexual misconduct lawsuits. He had to report to training camp to keep his salary from getting eaten up with fines, but the Texans aren't going to play him. Meanwhile, other teams aren't going to offer much of anything for him, because a lot of their own fans would go ballistic and because he may be subject to a suspension from the league or even possibly criminal prosecution. Can you imagine trading for Watson, and then having him get indicted for sexual assault? What a fiasco.
So let's hope for all concerned that Ben Simmons stays out of trouble. |
I'm not sure what Ben Simmons has to do with Deshaun. Still, Philly surely poisoned the well by dragging Simmons after the playoffs last year and then all these "leaks" of other teams not wanting him. They made their bed and I feel zero pity. I have to think that there are deals to be made out there -- not for Ben Simmons the top-15 player, but for Ben Simmons the all-star -- and Morey didn't want to make them. You can't trash the guy, make him available all over town, leak stories that nobody wanted him, then try to patch that (bleep) up. When you treat people like assets, sometimes you pay the price.
And your point about the salary cap is quite true, but it should be motivating Philly to make a move. Ben Simmons likely has enough money to sit out a full season. Philly is going to have real difficulty being competitive with a Ben Simmons-sized hole in their cap next year and with nothing to show for it. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Chick's Magic Johnson wrote: |
I'm not sure what Ben Simmons has to do with Deshaun. Still, Philly surely poisoned the well by dragging Simmons after the playoffs last year and then all these "leaks" of other teams not wanting him. They made their bed and I feel zero pity. I have to think that there are deals to be made out there -- not for Ben Simmons the top-15 player, but for Ben Simmons the all-star -- and Morey didn't want to make them. You can't trash the guy, make him available all over town, leak stories that nobody wanted him, then try to patch that (bleep) up. When you treat people like assets, sometimes you pay the price.
And your point about the salary cap is quite true, but it should be motivating Philly to make a move. Ben Simmons likely has enough money to sit out a full season. Philly is going to have real difficulty being competitive with a Ben Simmons-sized hole in their cap next year and with nothing to show for it. |
I doubt Philly was the one leaking that no one wanted him.
Simmons has made $57 million in his career, so you would think he could afford to sit out the entire season and sacrifice $30 million, plus fines for not showing up. But that seems unlikely. He's under contract for four more years for $140 million. It seems likely to me that Simmons will blink before the 76ers do.
My guess is Philly won't panic and won't make a bad deal, and Simmons will eventually return to the team.
Remember: At this moment, this is nothing more than a war of words and threats. Staying at home, and driving down his trade value, might make the 76ers even more reluctant to deal him. |
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Chick's Magic Johnson
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | Chick's Magic Johnson wrote: |
I'm not sure what Ben Simmons has to do with Deshaun. Still, Philly surely poisoned the well by dragging Simmons after the playoffs last year and then all these "leaks" of other teams not wanting him. They made their bed and I feel zero pity. I have to think that there are deals to be made out there -- not for Ben Simmons the top-15 player, but for Ben Simmons the all-star -- and Morey didn't want to make them. You can't trash the guy, make him available all over town, leak stories that nobody wanted him, then try to patch that (bleep) up. When you treat people like assets, sometimes you pay the price.
And your point about the salary cap is quite true, but it should be motivating Philly to make a move. Ben Simmons likely has enough money to sit out a full season. Philly is going to have real difficulty being competitive with a Ben Simmons-sized hole in their cap next year and with nothing to show for it. |
I doubt Philly was the one leaking that no one wanted him.
Simmons has made $57 million in his career, so you would think he could afford to sit out the entire season and sacrifice $30 million, plus fines for not showing up. But that seems unlikely. He's under contract for four more years for $140 million. It seems likely to me that Simmons will blink before the 76ers do.
My guess is Philly won't panic and won't make a bad deal, and Simmons will eventually return to the team.
Remember: At this moment, this is nothing more than a war of words and threats. Staying at home, and driving down his trade value, might make the 76ers even more reluctant to deal him. |
We'll see ... |
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joeblow
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Joined: 24 Nov 2008
Posts: 3096
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | Chick's Magic Johnson wrote: |
I'm not sure what Ben Simmons has to do with Deshaun. Still, Philly surely poisoned the well by dragging Simmons after the playoffs last year and then all these "leaks" of other teams not wanting him. They made their bed and I feel zero pity. I have to think that there are deals to be made out there -- not for Ben Simmons the top-15 player, but for Ben Simmons the all-star -- and Morey didn't want to make them. You can't trash the guy, make him available all over town, leak stories that nobody wanted him, then try to patch that (bleep) up. When you treat people like assets, sometimes you pay the price.
And your point about the salary cap is quite true, but it should be motivating Philly to make a move. Ben Simmons likely has enough money to sit out a full season. Philly is going to have real difficulty being competitive with a Ben Simmons-sized hole in their cap next year and with nothing to show for it. |
I doubt Philly was the one leaking that no one wanted him.
Simmons has made $57 million in his career, so you would think he could afford to sit out the entire season and sacrifice $30 million, plus fines for not showing up. But that seems unlikely. He's under contract for four more years for $140 million. It seems likely to me that Simmons will blink before the 76ers do.
My guess is Philly won't panic and won't make a bad deal, and Simmons will eventually return to the team.
Remember: At this moment, this is nothing more than a war of words and threats. Staying at home, and driving down his trade value, might make the 76ers even more reluctant to deal him. |
The 76rs holding a grudge against Simmons should not be their main focus. They have a championship window that won't last forever. It took the Bucks several years after being a top seed to win it all, so the 76ers (who had the best record last season) needs to concentrate on that goal alone.
It would mean that Morey needs to suck up his pride and make the best deal available. He already missed out on Brogdon + the #13 pick... that was actually decent and the pick could've netted a nice vet in a trade before the draft. It was definitely a better situation than what they have going on now with no easy solutions on the horizon. In order to make a serious run to win the East, they can't be playing chest-thumping games right now. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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| joeblow wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | Chick's Magic Johnson wrote: |
I'm not sure what Ben Simmons has to do with Deshaun. Still, Philly surely poisoned the well by dragging Simmons after the playoffs last year and then all these "leaks" of other teams not wanting him. They made their bed and I feel zero pity. I have to think that there are deals to be made out there -- not for Ben Simmons the top-15 player, but for Ben Simmons the all-star -- and Morey didn't want to make them. You can't trash the guy, make him available all over town, leak stories that nobody wanted him, then try to patch that (bleep) up. When you treat people like assets, sometimes you pay the price.
And your point about the salary cap is quite true, but it should be motivating Philly to make a move. Ben Simmons likely has enough money to sit out a full season. Philly is going to have real difficulty being competitive with a Ben Simmons-sized hole in their cap next year and with nothing to show for it. |
I doubt Philly was the one leaking that no one wanted him.
Simmons has made $57 million in his career, so you would think he could afford to sit out the entire season and sacrifice $30 million, plus fines for not showing up. But that seems unlikely. He's under contract for four more years for $140 million. It seems likely to me that Simmons will blink before the 76ers do.
My guess is Philly won't panic and won't make a bad deal, and Simmons will eventually return to the team.
Remember: At this moment, this is nothing more than a war of words and threats. Staying at home, and driving down his trade value, might make the 76ers even more reluctant to deal him. |
The 76rs holding a grudge against Simmons should not be their main focus. They have a championship window that won't last forever. It took the Bucks several years after being a top seed to win it all, so the 76ers (who had the best record last season) needs to concentrate on that goal alone.
It would mean that Morey needs to suck up his pride and make the best deal available. He already missed out on Brogdon + the #13 pick... that was actually decent and the pick could've netted a nice vet in a trade before the draft. It was definitely a better situation than what they have going on now with no easy solutions on the horizon. In order to make a serious run to win the East, they can't be playing chest-thumping games right now. |
You misinterpreted me. I don't think the 76ers will refuse to trade him because they are holding a grudge. They will refuse to trade him because they aren't getting good enough offers.
If the trade offers have really cratered, shipping Simmons off for spare parts won't help their goal to win the East. It makes more sense for them to wait, see if he plays well, in which case they can keep him or trade him for a better deal. His value right now is probably as low as it can get, so I don't see what the 76ers gain from trading a guy who has three years left on his deal. Embidd has four years on his deal so they don't have to worry about him right now. |
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joeblow
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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Do you agree that trading Simmons for Brogdon + #13 pick was worth it back then to (in part) avoid the situation going on now?
As for what the Sixers should do today, I still feel they should accept something decent. The alternative is with Simmons either being absent or passive-aggressively sabotaging the team (like Harden last season) is not worth it if you want to compete now for a championship. I would follow your advice if my team was still not ready to win it all (like the Bulls). |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2021 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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| joeblow wrote: | | Do you agree that trading Simmons for Brogdon + #13 pick was worth it back then to (in part) avoid the situation going on now? |
Right now, it looks like Brogdon and the 13th would have been an OK deal. How that will look in hindsight six months or a year from now is still to be seen. I can understand the 76ers being wary because of his injury history. So I wouldn't have been surprised if they had made the deal, but I wouldn't be impressed by the haul they got either.
| joeblow wrote: | | As for what the Sixers should do today, I still feel they should accept something decent. The alternative is with Simmons either being absent or passive-aggressively sabotaging the team (like Harden last season) is not worth it if you want to compete now for a championship. I would follow your advice if my team was still not ready to win it all (like the Bulls). |
I can't judge that without knowing the specifics of the "decent" deal is.
I get this is the news of the moment and alarms are blaring. But Simmons is under contract for three more years, so they have the option of being patient and seeing how things play out. Who knows -- a few months from now this might be water under the bridge or they might be able to work out a better deal for him, in which case the stories will be how smart the 76ers were not to panic. Or maybe everything will implode and their own season will be derailed.
The future is unwritten. Any choice they make carries risk. |
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2021 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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| I wonder if something can be worked out between Boston and Philly, Celtics send Jaylen Brown and sweetners to Philly for Ben Simmons, I know Celtics brass loves Brown but Simmons and Tatum duo would be sick. |
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Pau Gasol's Beard
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Joined: 04 Jul 2009
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2021 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | I wonder if something can be worked out between Boston and Philly, Celtics send Jaylen Brown and sweetners to Philly for Ben Simmons, I know Celtics brass loves Brown but Simmons and Tatum duo would be sick. |
I don't think Boston needs to add sweeteners and I doubt Boston even does that straight up. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2021 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Chick's Magic Johnson wrote: | | Ben Simmons likely has enough money to sit out a full season. |
You might be surprised by that. Anyway, if he sits out the season, that's $30M that he will never get back.
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Staccatos
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2021 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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| cital wrote: | | I cant believe we are still looking at guards, seems like the forward position is where we need depth.... totally thought Ennis would be a lock after we traded Gasol. |
Yeah, not sure why more short guards keep coming up as names for the Lakers.
Lakers could use a versatile 3 (SF) / 4 (PF). Preferably one that is solid defensively (offensively can be a toss up). |
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Car54
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2021 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Chick's Magic Johnson wrote: | | Ben Simmons likely has enough money to sit out a full season. |
You might be surprised by that. Anyway, if he sits out the season, that's $30M that he will never get back. |
Not really because he gets 16.5 mill upfront next week so they’ll have to take it from his next check. If they let this drag out Embiid will demand a trade
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Dr. Laker
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2021 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Chick's Magic Johnson wrote: | | Ben Simmons likely has enough money to sit out a full season. |
You might be surprised by that. Anyway, if he sits out the season, that's $30M that he will never get back. |
I remember when The Wizard (Gus Williams) sat out in 80-81. Dude was the best guard in the league not named Magic Johnson and had led the Sonics to an NBA Title in 78-79. When he came back, he put up great numbers - but he didn't seem as good. Of course the league had changed tremendously with Magic & Bird coming in, too.
Saddest part of the story was Gus' younger brother, Ray. Ray was a 20 ppg scorer with a 10-year NBA career, but ended up homeless, living in his car in his 50s. Not from drugs or gambling, just bad luck and bad money management.
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MookieBetts50
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2021 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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This is beginning to piss me off, my news feed today says Lakers interested in MONTE ELLIS??
WE NEED a 3/4 not another (bleep) 1/2. It's as if Rob took off on vacation the past week and left an intern in charge.  |
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