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angrypuppy
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 8:28 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
non-player zealot wrote:
governator wrote:

Y’all really not gonna mention Black Hawk Down?


I've never sat thru the entire movie. I've seen the majority of it in pieces over the years. I never caught my eye, tbh. I've seen every war flick that comes down the pike of late, too. American Sniper, Zero Dark Thirty, The Hurt Locker, 13 Hours, Captain Phillips, Jarhead, Act Of Valor, Lone Survivor, Restrepo, even a couple I can't name off top of my head. I'm interested in the SEALs and their missions/history and what have you, but the special ops community has had taken some nasty black eyes in recent years. Makes em hard to root for in fiction at least, even tho I get that they do extraordinary things and keep us safe. It's when they come back and run for office that they tend to go South (e.g. Ryan Zinke, a 20 yr SEAL). They are typically Repub and/or Trumper God, gunz, n glory pukes personalitywise. Not all, but a number of at least the ones who were attention hungry enough to go public after their careers. I know that goes off the subject, but Black Hawk Down for some reason out of all the above I listed never kept my interest. I also hate when movies like 13 Hours are clearly done w/ a Repugnican slant and give a false portrayal of situations like Benghazi. I guess I might suspect that BHD was a movie of that ilk. Lone Survivor was heavily influenced by creative license, too. Wahlberg and the SEAL it was based on went onto Jake Tapper and the guy was an uuuutter ahole to Tapper while Wahlberg did nothing to stop him from just going onto his show as a hitjob on a libtard cuck mediahead. Other than that, liked the movie.

What makes BHD special to you? (PS: Also, I might have trepidation because Somalia was blamed on Bill Clinton like Benghazi was on Hillary and the Repubs exaggerated the blames/faults/mistakes to a laughable extent for years. I'm already sensitive to that BS, don't need to see the movie version.)

Also saw 1917 and the WWII era flick about the conscientious objector who refused to hold a weapon. That one was typically hokey and had numerous war flick tropes. Biggest one was everyone thinking he was a nancy lad and he eventually, thru his bravery, won them over. Boosha. At least 1917 was a little less typical Hollywood. Had a good, eerie aesthetic in night scenes.

Yeah, BHD is one of my top war movie, action packed and the build up of the hopelessness being pinned down until the uplifting ending, well done for my taste



I tend to find fault with war movies, even though I find them entertaining. I am one of those folks who tends to know his history well, making it easy for me to take mild offense at the story-telling inaccuracies. Too many war movies glorify war and nationalism, and often paint a heavy handed political narrative.

Anti-war movies suffer a somewhat similar, hypocritical fate: They exploit the obvious foolishness and horrible carnage of war, while simultaneously glorifying war to make it entertaining.

Despite that, I still enjoy a few that I find haunting: Patton, the D-Day invasion scene in Saving Private Ryan, and Paths of Glory. Paths of Glory is an under-rated masterpiece.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 9:06 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
non-player zealot wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
loslakersss wrote:
While we’re on the topic of war films, what are some good/the best Vietnam war films? I’ve seen Apocalypse Now (final cut) and Da 5 Bloods. What other ones are must watch? And should I watch a different cut of AN?

Regarding 1917, I really like it and it’s one that I’m sure I’ll rewatch plenty because it *looks* great and is an enjoyable watch. But I understand a war movie— especially a WW1 movie— probably shouldn’t be “enjoyable”.


The Deer Hunter
Platoon
Full Metal Jacket
We Were Soldiers
Hamburger Hill
Good Morning Vietnam
Born On The Fourth Of July
Casualties Of War
Heaven And Earth

In no particular order. Although the first three are probably the best.


First 30 mins of Born On The 4th are idyllic. I'm not a fan of Oliver Stone's conspiracy theories re: JFK (they're BS), but everything up to the wet prom dance w/ Moon River playing is iconic. I like The Deer Hunter, but I think it's longwinded. That could be a positive or a negative. Some of the hijinx scenes among the friends are overdone imo. It was John Cazale's final movie and he was dying of lung cancer at the time. Everyone tends to recall the Russian roulette scene and nothing else. Far as that scene goes, it was brilliantly realistic and tense even tho you knew you were looking at Chris Walken and De Niro. MAO! (slap) I recently saw Platoon in its entirety for the first time in awhile and I never thought it held up to FMJ. Just personal preference. I think Platoon was lucky that it came before FMJ tho, or the field would've been a little muddier. Berenger and Dafoe and other characters were great. The industry at the time was still trying to determine whether Charlie was a good actor. Therefore, it sucks to see Depp in a minor bit role.

Not that I would expect the Academy tightwads to give a movie like Full Metal Jacket accolades, but. Problem with that movie is that no one seems to like the 2nd half. I think it's integral in making it an anti-war film with gray areas and commentaries on morality here and there. It was if nothing else an interesting take on Vietnam beside the fact that it didn't look like Nam (filmed in UK under UK skies). R. Lee Ermey was so brill that he should've been heavily considered for an Oscar imo. The "well-disciplined VC" tailgunner was supposed to have that role, but R. Lee convinced Kubrick otherwise.

I'd put Schindler in that group. And Private Ryan. I realize that film buffs don't like to cite Spielberg, but there are sections of Schindler that are beautifully presented down to every movement and gesture (the beginning 30 mins, etc). Same as with Ermey, Finnes' Goeth was probably or at least arguably the most finely acted character in the movie, but he didn't stand
a chance in being credited because he portrayed Amon Goeth. Ryan's first half hour was great, but again, many critics won't go beyond that part. They say the bridge scene is contrived tho there were instances in WWII that weren't that too far off. Spielberg really brought the way war flicks are filmed/viewed from 1st person into vogue tho. The look of the 1st person scenes in Ryan were groundbreaking at the time. That said, he could've made it tighter. The "fubar" crashed plane scene where the guy talks to Hanks about the plane crash he lived thru wasn't terribly necessary, e.g.

Y’all really not gonna mention Black Hawk Down?


Well, I was asked specifically for Vietnam war movies...

The casual and pervasive racism (which has to really stand out when you consider how racist most wars and therefore war movies are) of BHD kind of ruins it for me, and it becomes a bit of a cliche action movie that we already know the ending of. There are good and poignant parts of it, but mostly it seems to be violence porn without much context or care about the larger issues surrounding the fateful raid.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 12:52 pm    Post subject:

From the Blacksploytation film era. Cornbread, Earl and Me. It was the film debut of Lawrence Fishburne. Jamaal Wilkes played the part of Cornbread.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 8:51 pm    Post subject:

governator wrote:

Yeah, BHD is one of my top war movie, action packed and the build up of the hopelessness being pinned down until the uplifting ending, well done for my taste


One thing I absolutely detest is seeing a movie to its end from an early point that's not the very starting point. I don't even know if I've ever seen the opening scene in BHD. That makes me put movies on the back burner sometimes for years until fate leads me to a complete sit thru of the movie. Maybe I'd like BHD more than I expect if and when that happens and I will watch anything from start to finish at least once. One day, I'll letcha know. Maybe my perceptions about it being a conservative opinion-shaping tool are also unwarranted. It's one of the oldest movies that people freak out about when I tell em I haven't yet seen it. I know I've gotten that reaction before and I know people who have still not seen Cuckoo's Nest and Raging Bull and Taxi Driver of all things and they like Pacino, Bobby D, Jack, etc.
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 10:06 pm    Post subject:

Blue Velvet (1986):

Sometimes a wind blows
And you and I
Float
In love
And kiss
Forever
In a darkness
And the mysteries
Of love
Come clear
And dance
In light
In you
In me
And show
That we
Are love

Sometimes a wind blows
And the mysteries of love
Come clear.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 11:00 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Blue Velvet (1986):

Sometimes a wind blows
And you and I
Float
In love
And kiss
Forever
In a darkness
And the mysteries
Of love
Come clear
And dance
In light
In you
In me
And show
That we
Are love

Sometimes a wind blows
And the mysteries of love
Come clear.


Haha. I like that movie and it's Lynchian in all the right ways, but Hopper cracks me up as Frank. I've discussed this w/ you before. I can't even drop Frank quotes because of the filters. But last time I saw it, I noticed that Lynch was more artistic than I had recalled in portraying Frank's headshot/final come-uppance. Instead of the standard movie forehead shot we've seen a thousand times, you heard the sound of wind going thru a mic without a windsock, that warbling wind sound, and a subliminal flash of a candle going out and some kind of animalistic grunting sound from some other source but Frank. Looked cool. If he were alive, Frank would've driven a late 60s black Dodge Charger, too. Well-casted car character.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 11:13 pm    Post subject:

angrypuppy wrote:


Anti-war movies suffer a somewhat similar, hypocritical fate: They exploit the obvious foolishness and horrible carnage of war, while simultaneously glorifying war to make it entertaining.

Despite that, I still enjoy a few that I find haunting: Patton, the D-Day invasion scene in Saving Private Ryan, and Paths of Glory. Paths of Glory is an under-rated masterpiece.


FMJ is more anti-war than pro-war, but yeah, some of the gung ho characters like the tailgunner and Animal Mother, in particular, were nods to typical Yankee audience member who wants to kick ass all over the globe despite the costs. That fan is probably more common than a character like Joker who was introspective and unsure about messaging and why he/they were there and who the enemies were. I merely liked that Kubrick could take young actors like Adam Baldwin (Mother) and Matt Modine and have them star in a huge movie like that while making them work in lieu of a leading man like Hanks. Modine played those introspective, sensitive lad characters in his prior movies such as Birdy (1984) and VisionQuest (1985). That's probably how he got the role. He fit the character, but I remember Baldwin from My Bodyguard (1981) and Ordinary People (1980) and there was nothing to indicate an Animal Mother in there. He was closer to Modine's style.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 12:07 am    Post subject:

BHD is more action flick than war movie. At times it can double as a Michael Bay flick. It has its good visceral moments but it feels too contained and narrow minded. It could’ve done a better at illustrating the Somalí perspective as well.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 1:16 am    Post subject:

panamaniac wrote:
BHD is more action flick than war movie. At times it can double as a Michael Bay flick. It has its good visceral moments but it feels too contained and narrow minded. It could’ve done a better at illustrating the Somalí perspective as well.


Agree. Capn Phillips did do that to a limited extent, but at least to a limited extent. I cited Phillips a war flick because SEALs and Somalis were involved. The 1993 Battle of Mogadishu still remains one of the few memorable connections between the US and Somalia, tho a negative one. I think that situation sounded a lot more difficult than it was on paper, which is why it went to hell in a handbag. Grenada in 83 turned out to be a harrier situation for special ops than it sounded on paper because they also added a capture/arrest of a protected thug to the mix. Unrelated to that aspect, it was one of the deadiest days in SEAL history because a number of them drowned in choppy waters from a helicopter, error in planning was cited as the main reason. Going to places like Somalia JUST to render aid to civilians from warlords has potential by itself of inciting firefights, etc.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 12:29 pm    Post subject:

Platoon was really good although I think it would’ve been better if Sheen was replaced with someone better. Still, he wasn’t bad. And while narration is always a toss up, the final lines of the movie made the narration throughout the film a worthy addition, imo.

It’s on Netflix until the end of the month, for anyone that wants to watch/rewatch it.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 4:17 pm    Post subject:

loslakersss wrote:
Platoon was really good although I think it would’ve been better if Sheen was replaced with someone better. Still, he wasn’t bad. And while narration is always a toss up, the final lines of the movie made the narration throughout the film a worthy addition, imo.

It’s on Netflix until the end of the month, for anyone that wants to watch/rewatch it.


I felt like sheen actually nailed the character pretty well. He’s not a great actor, but his awkward portrayal of fresh meat resonated quite nicely, and both Berenger and Dafoe were nails.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 4:25 pm    Post subject:

non-player zealot wrote:
angrypuppy wrote:


Anti-war movies suffer a somewhat similar, hypocritical fate: They exploit the obvious foolishness and horrible carnage of war, while simultaneously glorifying war to make it entertaining.

Despite that, I still enjoy a few that I find haunting: Patton, the D-Day invasion scene in Saving Private Ryan, and Paths of Glory. Paths of Glory is an under-rated masterpiece.


FMJ is more anti-war than pro-war, but yeah, some of the gung ho characters like the tailgunner and Animal Mother, in particular, were nods to typical Yankee audience member who wants to kick ass all over the globe despite the costs. That fan is probably more common than a character like Joker who was introspective and unsure about messaging and why he/they were there and who the enemies were. I merely liked that Kubrick could take young actors like Adam Baldwin (Mother) and Matt Modine and have them star in a huge movie like that while making them work in lieu of a leading man like Hanks. Modine played those introspective, sensitive lad characters in his prior movies such as Birdy (1984) and VisionQuest (1985). That's probably how he got the role. He fit the character, but I remember Baldwin from My Bodyguard (1981) and Ordinary People (1980) and there was nothing to indicate an Animal Mother in there. He was closer to Modine's style.


I love both platoon and FmJ, and don’t feel the need to choose between them. Both accomplish their objectives. Stone was exorcising his demons, and Kubrick was making yet another entertaining yet cutting social commentary. I often watch them back to back because Platoon makes me oh so sad and FMJ brings me back to the sarcastic ennui of it all.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 4:28 pm    Post subject:

non-player zealot wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Blue Velvet (1986):

Sometimes a wind blows
And you and I
Float
In love
And kiss
Forever
In a darkness
And the mysteries
Of love
Come clear
And dance
In light
In you
In me
And show
That we
Are love

Sometimes a wind blows
And the mysteries of love
Come clear.


Haha. I like that movie and it's Lynchian in all the right ways, but Hopper cracks me up as Frank. I've discussed this w/ you before. I can't even drop Frank quotes because of the filters. But last time I saw it, I noticed that Lynch was more artistic than I had recalled in portraying Frank's headshot/final come-uppance. Instead of the standard movie forehead shot we've seen a thousand times, you heard the sound of wind going thru a mic without a windsock, that warbling wind sound, and a subliminal flash of a candle going out and some kind of animalistic grunting sound from some other source but Frank. Looked cool. If he were alive, Frank would've driven a late 60s black Dodge Charger, too. Well-casted car character.


Lynch is the Daniel Day Lewis of directors, mostly masturbating his own artistic ego, but finding a ready audience of sycophants to keep him doing it.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 8:36 am    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:

Lynch is the Daniel Day Lewis of directors, mostly masturbating his own artistic ego, but finding a ready audience of sycophants to keep him doing it.


In my defense, I'm not a Lynch superfan, I just enjoy Blue Vel. However, I do think Daniel Day is alla that. I do admit he can fall into overacting at times, but he's not on Pacino level as far as that goes. You don't think DDL has the goods? Plainview had his moments (salvation scene), but he was a little more muted than he was as Bill The Butcher. I love both flicks and performances, however.

Forgot I caught Glory twice in full in recent months. That's a movie I saw once when it was newish and then 20+ years later when I borrowed it from a friend. I had forgotten a lot of the intricacies. In recent months on Spectrum TV, it's been on fiftyleven times so I saw it twice again. Good movie. Breakout role for Broderick, great job by Denzel as usual and various other characters were strong. That movie easily could've been hokified (hokey) to death, especially if a Spielberg had directed it. The end where Capt Shaw and Denzel's corpses were both tossed into a mass grave prevented us from a BS rewriting of history.

Of course, that's a movie that requires a ton of license and nearly every character and dialogue had to be conjured save for Shaw himself. We don't even know if the drill sergeant was as hardcore as portrayed. I dare say that most of Shaw's actions in the movie were creations as well. With such license, you can easily wind up with a silly ass feel-good falsified/whitewashed history flick with zero tension at all between the white and black characters, but enough was added in to reflect the zeitgeist of 1860s American South. Shaw was a noble historical character, but they didn't go out of their way to portray him as a messiah either. I doubt he was in reality. Denzel's teardrop scene was the killer scene, but they did a good job in creating a wide range of characters for the soldiers. Morgan was the heart of the film as usual and at least he wasn't drivin Miss Daisy to the store. Glory still holds up well today, imo.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 8:43 am    Post subject:

I don't like all of David Lynch's films, but I also never got the impression that he's posturing or campaigning for the viewer's adulation. I think Lynch is a genuinely out-there dude and his films are a fairly honest distillation of who he is. I get the sense that even if he was held at gunpoint and tasked to produce a mainstream movie, it would still come out looking and feeling like a David Lynch movie.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 8:54 am    Post subject:

non-player zealot wrote:
Omar Little wrote:

Lynch is the Daniel Day Lewis of directors, mostly masturbating his own artistic ego, but finding a ready audience of sycophants to keep him doing it.


In my defense, I'm not a Lynch superfan, I just enjoy Blue Vel. However, I do think Daniel Day is alla that. I do admit he can fall into overacting at times, but he's not on Pacino level as far as that goes. You don't think DDL has the goods? Plainview had his moments (salvation scene), but he was a little more muted than he was as Bill The Butcher. I love both flicks and performances, however.


I think he can act, but I think you are always conscious of him acting, that his entire technique from how he acts to how he curated his mystique is all about “hey, look at me, I’m really acting over here”. It’s all so overwrought, even the quiet moments. I actually like Bill the Butcher because it is such an obvious (if unintentional) tour de force satire of his entire repertoire. It is so hammy it is fun. Like Rickman’s Nottingham or Nicholson’s Joker. I found TWBB dull and uninteresting with a few classic DDL tearing at the camera moments, some of which I will give him credit for, because the worked (the milkshake line is great, even though again, it’s more because it is so over the top and hammy).
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:09 am    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
non-player zealot wrote:
Omar Little wrote:

Lynch is the Daniel Day Lewis of directors, mostly masturbating his own artistic ego, but finding a ready audience of sycophants to keep him doing it.


In my defense, I'm not a Lynch superfan, I just enjoy Blue Vel. However, I do think Daniel Day is alla that. I do admit he can fall into overacting at times, but he's not on Pacino level as far as that goes. You don't think DDL has the goods? Plainview had his moments (salvation scene), but he was a little more muted than he was as Bill The Butcher. I love both flicks and performances, however.


I think he can act, but I think you are always conscious of him acting, that his entire technique from how he acts to how he curated his mystique is all about “hey, look at me, I’m really acting over here”. It’s all so overwrought, even the quiet moments. I actually like Bill the Butcher because it is such an obvious (if unintentional) tour de force satire of his entire repertoire. It is so hammy it is fun. Like Rickman’s Nottingham or Nicholson’s Joker. I found TWBB dull and uninteresting with a few classic DDL tearing at the camera moments, some of which I will give him credit for, because the worked (the milkshake line is great, even though again, it’s more because it is so over the top and hammy).


Wow re: TWBB. Any rate, I do give him credit for not cashing in at his age w/ action flicks and/or more commercial faire every single time. Bobby D and Liam. Sad to see Liam do that. Now studios WANT him to overract. "I have a very particular set of skills..." Liam, DDL, Hopkins, and Mel Gibson were in "The Bounty" (1984) based on the mutiny story. That's a good one. It seems to me that it was a school for the others to learn from Hopkins how to overdo the intensity. He is super intense in various scenes, to a funny extent. Mel picked up on it from there and went on to Lethal Weapon. No more quiet antiheros for Mel. It's an important movie simply because it has that quartet in their youths or relative ones.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:14 am    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:

Lynch is the Daniel Day Lewis of directors, mostly masturbating his own artistic ego, but finding a ready audience of sycophants to keep him doing it.


Hey hey hey. Nobody is allowed to write anything negative about Daniel Day-Lewis unless they are living in a hut in the woods, with no food, power, water, heat, while learning a new language (which they use to criticize DDL).
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:23 am    Post subject:

I liked DDL in that Philip Kaufman movie with the pretentious title where he stars opposite Julie Binoche. But that's because I like Philip Kaufman.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:59 am    Post subject:

TWBB is a taste thing. It just misses me. It won an Oscar for the part I like least, the endless panorama shots turning a tight 90 minute tale into a wandering travelogue if the SW. I thought that No Country for Old Men, interestingly, made fabulous use of stark panoramas that drive the story more than just looked pretty and added bloat.

I’m actually fine with Neeson (after the death of his wife) just deciding to do action movies, more so than Cage, or Willis doing horrible Eastern European trash for cash, but it is sad to watch talent wasted. I figure DeNiro earned it if he just wants to make fun movies anymore, with an occasional gem as a reminder of who he is and was. The choices make you cringe, but whadda ya gonna do?

Interesting point about Hopkins. He does have that incredible intensity, although he also knows how to turn it off and be downright charming and affable. It’s interesting because he’s shared that he has Aspergers, so maybe it has taken him some time to develop those areas that are more foreign. In that regard, I find DDL’s acting to be a metaphor for the spectrum, selfish and performative more than empathetic and connected. And I doubt he would sell out now having worked so hard to craft his image as the selective auteur. One senses that his performances are part of a larger performance.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 5:39 pm    Post subject:

I've been watching some Blacksploytation films of late. I'm Gonna Git You Sucka (1988) Jim Brown, Berney Casey, Isaac Hayes, Ja'Net DuBois, the Wayan brothers to name a few. Chris Rock had a small part.
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America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
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NMLaker
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:47 pm    Post subject:

"I'm a soldier! I was trained for combat!....They shootin'!"
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jodeke
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 9:17 am    Post subject:

NMLaker wrote:
"I'm a soldier! I was trained for combat!....They shootin'!"


That was one of the funnier scenes in the movie. These are classics. You got two ways outa here the window or the stairs. LINK
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Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
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kikanga
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 12:22 pm    Post subject:

loslakersss wrote:
Platoon was really good although I think it would’ve been better if Sheen was replaced with someone better. Still, he wasn’t bad. And while narration is always a toss up, the final lines of the movie made the narration throughout the film a worthy addition, imo.

It’s on Netflix until the end of the month, for anyone that wants to watch/rewatch it.


I prefer the war movies where they drop you in the $hit from start to finish. And Platoon does that.

If We Were Soldiers cut out the B storyline with the wives at the base. It would probably be higher on my list as well.
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 4:42 pm    Post subject:

"Bacon or ham?"

"Bacon. Ham makes me self-conscious."
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