But does anybody have a reason as to why Klutch is looking out for Jeanie’s/ownership’s bank accounts?
Why are they interested in having the Lakers pay a minimal tax this season? Bron has always been about wanting more help for himself…well that takes spending, so why did LeGM cap spending after the Russ trade? Why did he create a roster where he’s the only lengthy mobile wing defender? Why would he do that to himself to face the DeMars and Georges and Butlers of the league? You’d think he would spend to bring in more wing help along with more playmaking assistance.
Also consider we're not repeat tax offenders paying a more punitive tax rate…and we have a forecast of a potential cap smoothing/spiking occurrence where any future taxes won’t be as large of a hit and/or may take us out of repeater tax territory. Not to mention, the owners could modify the tax rates by opting out of the current CBA next December so that by summer 2023 a new CBA is implemented.
Crazy because i just searched 2020 champs on google and Lakers popped up. Problem some error in the system.
A lot of people don't consider it a real championship.
Eh. Pick any championship that was won in NBA history, and you can find people who will be happy to tell you it wasn't a "real" championship for this reason or that.
Mostly, that's just code for "I don't like the team that won."
As time passes, the whines and complaints evaporate, and no one cares.
This was different than other championships. Nobody in attendance to see it, no real celebration, no parade...... the ratings were extremely down in viewership. The championship just came and went. Name me a championship in the past or 20 years when that happened?
so do the Celtics banners from yesteryear count? segregation. few teams. oversight?
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144459 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2021 9:27 am Post subject:
lakersfever714 wrote:
Yea big asterisk for that championship. The restart helped the Lakers more because they have superstars who benefited more from the hiatus.
Come to think of it, we might not have won that championship if it weren't for the hiatus. No way Lebron could put up that playoff performance without being so fresh. Lebron is always a beast when he's rested. You could see it in the first few games of this season.
So Rob has one asterisked championship under him.
The season and every associated stat should have an asterisk, the championship was 95% normal so I wouldn’t say it deserves an asterisk. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
The lovely Jeannie Buss doesn't have the balls (literally) to fire Robert Pelinka, so that's not happening.
My issue with Pelinka is what I have been saying repeatedly; that he allowed our NBA Championship team from only 2 seasons ago to be disbanded. I don't know of any NBA Championship team that had that occur except the Lakers, under Rob. If he could not retain key players, he should have signed players of a similar caliber and style. He didn't. Vogel had a vision, and Rob destroyed that vision. And when the (bleep) hits the fan, it will be Vogel that will pay the ultimate price.
And then last season, Robert failed to retain the remaining of our Championship team, and our effective players, many of whom are ow blossoming on other teams that coincidently have better records than the Lakers.
And to put the nail in the coffin, Robert chose (or allowed Lebron to choose) the likes of Russell "Yes I turn the ball over, dammit" Westbrook over the 3 point record breaking Buddy Hield and, especially, Demar Derozan, who wanted to come play for us, badly, and all but begged to play for us, and is how having a MVP season for the Bulls.
Robert Pelinka has destroyed any chance of getting Lebron a 2nd ring as a Laker, and Jeannie Buss just sits back and lets it happen.
Then it would admit that she did some thing wrong. In the midst of her so called "firing" Jim (which she didn't because he has stake in the company), it would not look good on her behalf. Magic was a disaster, Rob gets fired. Then possibly the coach. It screams a level of incompetence.
Jeanie stays out of it because she admitted that she knows absolutely nothing about the basketball side of things. I feel the problem is, we didn't put the best in position for the Lakers to excel. We operate like a mom and pops shop and they hire their friends. Not necessarily people that are gonna do the best in the position they are given, because they don't have the skills nor experience. I don't mind hiring your driven friends, but atleast get a mentor for them to elevate them.
So the very top mismanaged and it trickled down to the bottom. It's like if you have a weak alpha, you have a weak pack.
Would you agree that Lebron James has majority influence as to what Jeannie signs off on? Not "some" influence, I mean majority influence (eg more influence than Rob and Vogel)?
Lebron definitely has influence. He is the cash cow. My thing is that Jeanie or Rob is no Mickey Arison or Pat Riley where they didn't bend to everything he asks or give him basically the keys. I mean disbanding a championship team, after their 1st championship is unheard of. Then turning the team every year is also unheard of. I mean who says "we need a playmaker to relieve Bron and give him some rest. Let's fill the team up with guards" and completely ignore the wing? Outside of Melo (who is older and doesn't play good D) and Ariza (who is older, I believe only played about 40 games in 3 years). We are not even incorporating fit and real need, because we have no real identity. We feel Westbrook, AD, and Bron are our identity. When AD wants us to play defense. Bron or Westbrook don't really wanna go all out to play defense at this point of their career. Westbrook wants to play uptempo, when Bron wants to play a little slower and methodic, and that works for AD. It such a weird dynamic and they have to figure out a balance.
These things seem like it's coming from a player than an actual GM with a vision in the direction they wanna go; like someone playing 2k.
A lot of people don't consider it a real championship.
Eh. Pick any championship that was won in NBA history, and you can find people who will be happy to tell you it wasn't a "real" championship for this reason or that.
Mostly, that's just code for "I don't like the team that won."
As time passes, the whines and complaints evaporate, and no one cares.
This was different than other championships. Nobody in attendance to see it, no real celebration, no parade...... the ratings were extremely down in viewership. The championship just came and went. Name me a championship in the past or 20 years when that happened?
The best analogy I can think of is MLB during World War II. Everyone knows that those seasons were different. The titles and records still count. This is true even though a big chunk of the players were in the military. In 2020, by contrast, everyone was available, though a handful opted out. The circumstances were unusual, but the title is solid.
However, I acknowledge what others have said in the past: If some other team had won the title in 2020, there are a lot of people here who would gleefully attach an asterisk to it. _________________ Internet Argument Resolved
Crazy because i just searched 2020 champs on google and Lakers popped up. Problem some error in the system.
A lot of people don't consider it a real championship.
Eh. Pick any championship that was won in NBA history, and you can find people who will be happy to tell you it wasn't a "real" championship for this reason or that.
Mostly, that's just code for "I don't like the team that won."
As time passes, the whines and complaints evaporate, and no one cares.
This was different than other championships. Nobody in attendance to see it, no real celebration, no parade...... the ratings were extremely down in viewership. The championship just came and went. Name me a championship in the past or 20 years when that happened?
so do the Celtics banners from yesteryear count? segregation. few teams. oversight?
I would have to research that, but that was way before the expansion of the NBA. It is quite alarming that you would have to go back that far.
A lot of people don't consider it a real championship. Not to mention, it seems the Lakers will ever reach that point again, unless some thing changes within this season and management gets better.
Who are these people and why should any of us care about their opinion? Does their opinion in any way change the fact that the Lakers did, indeed, win the championship?
A lot of people don't consider it a real championship.
Eh. Pick any championship that was won in NBA history, and you can find people who will be happy to tell you it wasn't a "real" championship for this reason or that.
Mostly, that's just code for "I don't like the team that won."
As time passes, the whines and complaints evaporate, and no one cares.
This was different than other championships. Nobody in attendance to see it, no real celebration, no parade...... the ratings were extremely down in viewership. The championship just came and went. Name me a championship in the past or 20 years when that happened?
The best analogy I can think of is MLB during World War II. Everyone knows that those seasons were different. The titles and records still count. This is true even though a big chunk of the players were in the military. In 2020, by contrast, everyone was available, though a handful opted out. The circumstances were unusual, but the title is solid.
However, I acknowledge what others have said in the past: If some other team had won the title in 2020, there are a lot of people here who would gleefully attach an asterisk to it.
I wanna put it out there, that I consider it a championship. I'm not fighting against it, just objectively speaking, I could understand why people wouldn't consider it a "real" championship, while also, agreeing with what you said lastly.
A lot of people don't consider it a real championship. Not to mention, it seems the Lakers will ever reach that point again, unless some thing changes within this season and management gets better.
Who are these people and why should any of us care about their opinion? Does their opinion in any way change the fact that the Lakers did, indeed, win the championship?
Players, other teams fan base, analysts..... we don't have to care about their opinions, just as well as we don't have to look at things objectively. This was a real unusual championship and like some said here, if it was another team winning it, a lot of us would look at the championship differently as well.
A lot of people don't consider it a real championship. Not to mention, it seems the Lakers will ever reach that point again, unless some thing changes within this season and management gets better.
Who are these people and why should any of us care about their opinion? Does their opinion in any way change the fact that the Lakers did, indeed, win the championship?
Players, other teams fan base, analysts..... we don't have to care about their opinions, just as well as we don't have to look at things objectively. This was a real unusual championship and like some said here, if it was another team winning it, a lot of us would look at the championship differently as well.
until the new winner. now it seems like the only ones talking about are lakers fans. Its hung.
I haven't posted in a while here, but the doubts about Rob's GM acumen should've been festering for years now, even with the championship (thanks to Lebron/AD/Rondo). The guy's just not in tune with what ingredients make up winning teams today, and that includes this misguided idea of rebuilding the entire damn roster every offseason he's been with the team. This isn't NBA 2K, Rob. You don't need three 7-footers on the team at all times, it's okay to have a big man or three that can shoot, and the NBA hasn't outlawed stockpiling as many spry, athletic perimeter players that can move their feet on D as you can (in fact, the good teams tend to do this...).
It shouldn't be rocket science to build a decent enough roster around Lebron and AD's prodigious talents, but this FO has managed to make it into just that. I'm in awe of any fans who still have faith in them - you're better men/women than me - because any wavering confidence I had two years into this Rob/Rambii era was destroyed the moment they decided to go all in on a washed former superstar who's tanked the winning chances of every team he's gone to in the last few years. When a random fan off the street can recognize how stupid of a move that and several others over the past few years were, you know it's bad.
A lot of people don't consider it a real championship. Not to mention, it seems the Lakers will ever reach that point again, unless some thing changes within this season and management gets better.
Who are these people and why should any of us care about their opinion? Does their opinion in any way change the fact that the Lakers did, indeed, win the championship?
Players, other teams fan base, analysts..... we don't have to care about their opinions, just as well as we don't have to look at things objectively. This was a real unusual championship and like some said here, if it was another team winning it, a lot of us would look at the championship differently as well.
People will always find a way to discount championships.
Remember Doc Rivers always complaining about how no one has beat their starting lineup when healthy? Or that they complain that Perkins was hurt in Game 6 of the 2010 Finals?
Or look at the Lakers ledger. Karl Malone got hurt in the finals (legit), or Ariza/Bynum were not available for the 2008 Finals (legit).
That doesn't discount the fact that Detroit won in 2004 and the Celtics in 2008. Complaints? Sure. Erasing a championship? Nope.
I haven't posted in a while here, but the doubts about Rob's GM acumen should've been festering for years now, even with the championship (thanks to Lebron/AD/Rondo). The guy's just not in tune with what ingredients make up winning teams today, and that includes this misguided idea of rebuilding the entire damn roster every offseason he's been with the team. This isn't NBA 2K, Rob. You don't need three 7-footers on the team at all times, it's okay to have a big man or three that can shoot, and the NBA hasn't outlawed stockpiling as many spry, athletic perimeter players that can move their feet on D as you can (in fact, the good teams tend to do this...).
It shouldn't be rocket science to build a decent enough roster around Lebron and AD's prodigious talents, but this FO has managed to make it into just that. I'm in awe of any fans who still have faith in them - you're better men/women than me - because any wavering confidence I had two years into this Rob/Rambii era was destroyed the moment they decided to go all in on a washed former superstar who's tanked the winning chances of every team he's gone to in the last few years. When a random fan off the street can recognize how stupid of a move that and several others over the past few years were, you know it's bad.
For some reason, there is reluctance here on LG to admit that Rob is not in charge and it's Lebron James that is making all these bizarre roster moves. I remember during Lebron's first season when are young players, especially Ingram, were being teased around the league by fan chants of "Lebron is Going to Trade You!"
I didn't make much of it, but now it makes sense.
I appreciate that Lebron has brought a championship to Los Angeles. And I'm not trashing him at all. But I am conflicted with the idea of him being allowed carta blanche to manipulate the roster in accordance to what HE thinks is best, and not the overall vision and health of this franchise.
It's one thing for a star player to have influence/ complete control is a totally different story.
Last edited by troy on Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:38 am; edited 1 time in total
Teams, fan bases, media, etc. discounting the 2020 chip obviously have never played sports or competed for anything in their life.
It’s amazing when you see stuff like that and it’s usually from organizations that have not won and are perennial losing franchises.
Yet these are often the same people who have been telling me we should be happy to have won one title during the LBJ era. (Not saying we can't win another, but it's not looking good)
People who have competed at a high level, never say sh*t like one title is good enough.
Crazy because i just searched 2020 champs on google and Lakers popped up. Problem some error in the system.
A lot of people don't consider it a real championship. Not to mention, it seems the Lakers will ever reach that point again, unless some thing changes within this season and management gets better.
who are a lot of people? other fan bases? Because a lot of people don't think the spurs shortened season is real, or the bucks not playing a healthy team.
Of course this fan base would, but other fan bases, media, spectators. There was no parade, no real ceremony, or celebration of it. No fans in attendance to see it. It kinda just came and went.
Who cares what the other fan base thinks.
Seriously, the Laker organization is still regarded as the best organization in the NBA.
Unfortunately, some of these comments are from other fans who are simply jealous of the Lakers success.
The list of great players who have played with this organization is incredible.
If you and other fans want to discredit the championship, it is your prerogative.
As for me and others, I think that it was awesome.
I think you are wrong about no celebration. During that crazy pandemic, Laker fans celebrated. If I recalled correctly, there were several riots or celebrations going on in DTLA.
A lot of people don't consider it a real championship. Not to mention, it seems the Lakers will ever reach that point again, unless some thing changes within this season and management gets better.
Who are these people and why should any of us care about their opinion? Does their opinion in any way change the fact that the Lakers did, indeed, win the championship?
Players, other teams fan base, analysts..... we don't have to care about their opinions, just as well as we don't have to look at things objectively. This was a real unusual championship and like some said here, if it was another team winning it, a lot of us would look at the championship differently as well.
People will always find a way to discount championships.
Remember Doc Rivers always complaining about how no one has beat their starting lineup when healthy? Or that they complain that Perkins was hurt in Game 6 of the 2010 Finals?
Or look at the Lakers ledger. Karl Malone got hurt in the finals (legit), or Ariza/Bynum were not available for the 2008 Finals (legit).
That doesn't discount the fact that Detroit won in 2004 and the Celtics in 2008. Complaints? Sure. Erasing a championship? Nope.
I agree that fans will discount championships, but for the most part, it is unjustifiable and emotionally biased than objective. Injuries happen in sports, but the 2020 title is different than just players being injured. Players opted not to play, They had no crowd, no real celebration, no parade, viewership of it was down.... on top of it being a shortened season. it didn't necessarily have that playoff or championship feel and seemed to have just come and go.
Crazy because i just searched 2020 champs on google and Lakers popped up. Problem some error in the system.
A lot of people don't consider it a real championship. Not to mention, it seems the Lakers will ever reach that point again, unless some thing changes within this season and management gets better.
who are a lot of people? other fan bases? Because a lot of people don't think the spurs shortened season is real, or the bucks not playing a healthy team.
Of course this fan base would, but other fan bases, media, spectators. There was no parade, no real ceremony, or celebration of it. No fans in attendance to see it. It kinda just came and went.
Who cares what the other fan base thinks.
Seriously, the Laker organization is still regarded as the best organization in the NBA.
Unfortunately, some of these comments are from other fans who are simply jealous of the Lakers success.
The list of great players who have played with this organization is incredible.
If you and other fans want to discredit the championship, it is your prerogative.
As for me and others, I think that it was awesome.
I think you are wrong about no celebration. During that crazy pandemic, Laker fans celebrated. If I recalled correctly, there were several riots or celebrations going on in DTLA.
The opposing team and their fan base saying it isn't a real championship, I understand. But I never heard the fan base or players of multiple teams and analysts ever call a Laker championship, not a real championship. Even some Laker fans say it. I agree that some are jealous, but if you look at the circumstance objectively.... players opting not to play, no crowd, no real celebration, no parade, shortened season, etc one could understand the notion. The championship was very unusual, but at this point, I'm beating a dead horse. I'm just saying, objectively, I understand. Not saying I personally feel like it's not a real championship. I'm a Laker supporter, so I'm biased from that standpoint to say it isn't.
A lot of people don't consider it a real championship.
Eh. Pick any championship that was won in NBA history, and you can find people who will be happy to tell you it wasn't a "real" championship for this reason or that.
Mostly, that's just code for "I don't like the team that won."
As time passes, the whines and complaints evaporate, and no one cares.
This was different than other championships. Nobody in attendance to see it, no real celebration, no parade...... the ratings were extremely down in viewership. The championship just came and went. Name me a championship in the past or 20 years when that happened?
The best analogy I can think of is MLB during World War II. Everyone knows that those seasons were different. The titles and records still count. This is true even though a big chunk of the players were in the military. In 2020, by contrast, everyone was available, though a handful opted out. The circumstances were unusual, but the title is solid.
However, I acknowledge what others have said in the past: If some other team had won the title in 2020, there are a lot of people here who would gleefully attach an asterisk to it.
I wanna put it out there, that I consider it a championship. I'm not fighting against it, just objectively speaking, I could understand why people wouldn't consider it a "real" championship, while also, agreeing with what you said lastly.
would you rather play while the other team's main stars are out or would you rather play in a bubble? nobody puts * next to those championships. lakers played every team at the full strength until the finals that year, and whatever happened or didn't happen, they won fair and square. i also point out that while lebron and AD had extra rest, we also lost HCA because we would be the home team for every series we played.
A lot of people don't consider it a real championship.
Eh. Pick any championship that was won in NBA history, and you can find people who will be happy to tell you it wasn't a "real" championship for this reason or that.
Mostly, that's just code for "I don't like the team that won."
As time passes, the whines and complaints evaporate, and no one cares.
This was different than other championships. Nobody in attendance to see it, no real celebration, no parade...... the ratings were extremely down in viewership. The championship just came and went. Name me a championship in the past or 20 years when that happened?
The best analogy I can think of is MLB during World War II. Everyone knows that those seasons were different. The titles and records still count. This is true even though a big chunk of the players were in the military. In 2020, by contrast, everyone was available, though a handful opted out. The circumstances were unusual, but the title is solid.
However, I acknowledge what others have said in the past: If some other team had won the title in 2020, there are a lot of people here who would gleefully attach an asterisk to it.
I wanna put it out there, that I consider it a championship. I'm not fighting against it, just objectively speaking, I could understand why people wouldn't consider it a "real" championship, while also, agreeing with what you said lastly.
would you rather play while the other team's main stars are out or would you rather play in a bubble? nobody puts * next to those championships. lakers played every team at the full strength until the finals that year, and whatever happened or didn't happen, they won fair and square. i also point out that while lebron and AD had extra rest, we also lost HCA because we would be the home team for every series we played.
You are right. You can go back in history and point out situations when a championship team got breaks. In the end, you are still a champion.
Do we say the Raptors did not win a championship because the Warriors lost after Durant and Klay got hurt?
Did the Bulls and Jordan win the first championship when we lost James Worthy to a sprain ankle and actually won the first game of the series?
Did the Pistons beat the Lakers when we lost Karl Malone to an injury?
Or how about when the Cavs won after Draymond got suspended for a game?
The list is endless.
How about last year? Did the Buck really win when Harden and Kyrie got hurt and the Lakers lost Lebron and AD to injuries?
Stop trying to convince others. Appreciate it and let it go.
Those trying to delegitimize our 2019 title is simply loser talk. Do not buy into a loser mentality. We won, be proud. No one can take that away for us.
As for Rob and his offseason moves, there have been many I have liked, many I could not understand, and only one that I would consider a fatal disaster ...... trading for Westbrook. Depending on how this season unfolds, that may unfortunately be the only move he is remembered for.
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144459 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2021 6:37 pm Post subject:
laker4life wrote:
Outspoken wrote:
Halflife wrote:
Outspoken wrote:
TMG wrote:
phantasyman wrote:
Outspoken wrote:
Atleast we got 1 championship. Amirite?
That wasn't a championship
Crazy because i just searched 2020 champs on google and Lakers popped up. Problem some error in the system.
A lot of people don't consider it a real championship. Not to mention, it seems the Lakers will ever reach that point again, unless some thing changes within this season and management gets better.
who are a lot of people? other fan bases? Because a lot of people don't think the spurs shortened season is real, or the bucks not playing a healthy team.
Of course this fan base would, but other fan bases, media, spectators. There was no parade, no real ceremony, or celebration of it. No fans in attendance to see it. It kinda just came and went.
Who cares what the other fan base thinks.
Seriously, the Laker organization is still regarded as the best organization in the NBA.
I would say that for most fans, that would be the Warriors organization. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
Crazy because i just searched 2020 champs on google and Lakers popped up. Problem some error in the system.
A lot of people don't consider it a real championship. Not to mention, it seems the Lakers will ever reach that point again, unless some thing changes within this season and management gets better.
who are a lot of people? other fan bases? Because a lot of people don't think the spurs shortened season is real, or the bucks not playing a healthy team.
Of course this fan base would, but other fan bases, media, spectators. There was no parade, no real ceremony, or celebration of it. No fans in attendance to see it. It kinda just came and went.
Who cares what the other fan base thinks.
Seriously, the Laker organization is still regarded as the best organization in the NBA.
I would say that for most fans, that would be the Warriors organization.
U don't know (bleep). I live in the bay and there are more Laker fans here then warriors.
Haters can whine all they want, 20 years from now no one will care how the title was won. It may be even looked at in appreciation considering the dire circumstances the world was in at the time and to be basically quarantined for 2-3 months.
The title counts every much as all the others under Dr. Buss, only this one goes under Jeanie watch so some will always have a hard time accepting it.
LBJ ring count went from 3 to 4.
Lakers ring count tied/matched Boston’s record.
The Spurs ring in 99 was won without a full season and most players were out of shape. Now all these years later no one cares. Duncan is still seen as a great and those twin tower teams looking back are appreciated. Same will happen for the group that won in 2020. 4 future HOFers played a significant part of the run, two still in prime.
Years later when one looks back on that team they will see Dwight, AD, Bron, Rondo on that team and know it was something special. Nevermind the biggest talent on that team Carushow breaking out that year as a proven NBA player
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