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ChefLinda
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 11:43 am    Post subject:

Trump for all intents and purposes killed 500K American civilians. He sexually assaulted 20+ women. His overt racism triggered epidemic of violence committed against people of color and other faiths. There are many ways to quantify worst.
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 11:51 am    Post subject:

I didn't pay much attention to Reagan but at least he put American interests first instead of Trump the Murderer.

That dude laughed his fat ass off when he sent American Trash into our Capitol Building to potentially murder US Politicians

Trump and DeSantis.. both quietly vaccinated

and FWIW ES&S voting machines are the actual criminals in the voting machine debate.. producing more votes than voters for McConnell and others.
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ChefLinda
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 11:51 am    Post subject:

I think I'd rather watch the Star Wars marathon than discuss who was worst among this cast of Republican villains. May the Fourth be with you!
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 11:55 am    Post subject:

And his whole Tariffs against China.. and China rhetoric.. only helped Russia big time... build partnerships with China
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 11:59 am    Post subject:

Dr. Laker wrote:

Bush 1 only had 4 years, but managed to drag us into Desert Storm, which was basically him protecting his father's former business partners in the Gulf and keeping Saddam from having a bigger piece of the oil market than the Saudi Royal Family.


I don't dispute what you said there, and the bigger controversy was his family's dealings over there. I can't think other Presidents would've allowed Saddam to absorb all of Kuwait's wealth. And we treat non-threatening Arab countries like they're gems. We need all the allies we can get over there or it would seem that way. Just Saddam taking all that money was not tenable. He would've ramped up Iraq's military and a host of other dominoes would've fallen. He probably would've overtaken Iran after that, who knows. I do credit Bush 1 for his ability to build coalitions. His strength was in building friendships or allies w/ other leaders. The Rs at the time perceived that as a wuss characteristic. In 92, a lot of them wanted Pat Buchanan to be the nominee and he had an early unexpected win against Bush. He built the coalition that we coulda dreamed of under his idiot son the next time around. We had allies like Trinidad and Tobago in that one. However, our relationship w/ Saudi Arabia and seeking to base our military there was what made Usama turn on us, but what could you do? It had to be done and basing rights can be a B. Clinton said one of the reasons they had to pull out of an attempted strike on UBL was because Uzbekistan wouldn't give us basing rights which would've made a strike unit heading from there a possibility instead of having to fly a large plane and bombing UBL and a Saudi prince who was too close by at some function where they knew Usama was at. I don't like the Bushes being personally allied w/ those folks in business deals, however. And for the obvious reasons of being taken advantage of and giving favors out. No doubt they did that a time or two.
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 12:02 pm    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
Trump for all intents and purposes killed 500K American civilians. He sexually assaulted 20+ women. His overt racism triggered epidemic of violence committed against people of color and other faiths. There are many ways to quantify worst.


Trump was already horrid, but the assault on democracy + horrible leadership during the pandemic puts him as the worse for me.

Reagan botched AIDS badly/callously.

Trump tried to kill democracy (and is still trying...who knows the full impact yet?).

But, yeah, a lot better things to think about than this.
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 12:03 pm    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
I think I'd rather watch the Star Wars marathon than discuss who was worst among this cast of Republican villains. May the Fourth be with you!


Jabba is the Star Wars equivalent of Chris Christie.
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 12:09 pm    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
Trump for all intents and purposes killed 500K American civilians. He sexually assaulted 20+ women. His overt racism triggered epidemic of violence committed against people of color and other faiths. There are many ways to quantify worst.


Yeah, maybe because the bodies are barely cold but I can't get past letting half a million people die for no reason other than his own ego and that puts Trump at the top of truely (bleep) Republican presidents.
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 12:18 pm    Post subject:

And there has only been one person who was an active Russian asset while sitting behind the resolute desk.
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 12:57 pm    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
And there has only been one person who was an active Russian asset while sitting behind the resolute desk.


I think we are taking past each other here. I think Trump is hands down the worst president ever. My contention was that lost in the horror over him and W before him is the calculated and monumentally effective and competent evil that was the Reagan administration. The levels of democracy and civilization and progress for workers, minorities, and women that they rolled back and the table they set of white Christian male monied dominance and the destruction of so many is jaw dropping. It’s not for nothing that along with his father and Roy Cohn, Reagan and his era was a huge part of building Trump into what he is.
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 1:11 pm    Post subject:

From a recent WaPO article:

Quote:
Debra Ell, a Republican organizer in Michigan and fervent supporter of former president Donald Trump, said she has good reason to believe the 2020 presidential election was stolen.

“I think I speak for many people in that Trump has never actually been wrong, and so we’ve learned to trust when he says something, that he’s not just going to spew something out there that’s wrong and not verified,” she said, referring to Trump’s baseless claims that widespread electoral fraud caused his loss to President Biden in November.

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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 1:11 pm    Post subject:

If the question is which president has done the most long-term damage to America so far, then maybe it's Reagan. But we don't know the end of the Trump story yet. The GOP is currently going full Jim Crow, anti-science, pro-fascist, anti-truth, anti-woman, anti-LGTBQ, anti-Democracy. So, we'll see.
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ChefLinda
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 1:17 pm    Post subject:

Wilt wrote:
From a recent WaPO article:

Quote:
Debra Ell, a Republican organizer in Michigan and fervent supporter of former president Donald Trump, said she has good reason to believe the 2020 presidential election was stolen.

“I think I speak for many people in that Trump has never actually been wrong, and so we’ve learned to trust when he says something, that he’s not just going to spew something out there that’s wrong and not verified,” she said, referring to Trump’s baseless claims that widespread electoral fraud caused his loss to President Biden in November.


I saw that the other day on Twitter. I wanted to respond but it's tiring to stay worked up about these brainless zombies. I mean, they are dangerous, but there are only so many ways to say they are a cult. The truest thing Trump ever said was that he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and they would still support him.
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 1:38 pm    Post subject:

maybe one of our esteem legal minds can read this and give us an opinion

https://www.businessinsider.com/judge-orders-doj-turn-over-mueller-barr-obstruction-memo-trump-2021-5
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 1:57 pm    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
If the question is which president has done the most long-term damage to America so far, then maybe it's Reagan. But we don't know the end of the Trump story yet. The GOP is currently going full Jim Crow, anti-science, pro-fascist, anti-truth, anti-woman, anti-LGTBQ, anti-Democracy. So, we'll see.


To me, consciousness has already shown the path it will evolve to. Our system will allow that to happen. It may be a painful process, it may take a long time, but it will happen. Only way to prevent our system from allowing it to happen is by dismantling it. The right is currently all aboard that train. I think it will backfire on them miserably.

Trump will ultimately be one of the best things to happen to the left in a long while.
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 2:01 pm    Post subject:

governator wrote:
maybe one of our esteem legal minds can read this and give us an opinion

https://www.businessinsider.com/judge-orders-doj-turn-over-mueller-barr-obstruction-memo-trump-2021-5


I'm not a legal expert but here's what I think...

Bill Barr will likely never suffer the consequences for his lying and deception at DOJ. Mueller himself said Trump could be liable for obstruction of justice after he left office and he criticized Barr for mischaracterizing (lying about) Mueller's views on obstruction. There could be 30 internal memos legally justifying all of Barr's decisions. Or he could lie about what the internal memos said and still suffer no consequences. Bush 2 had his DOJ write legal memos justifying torture. No one in that administration suffered any consequences for that. Barr was in on Rudy's Russian disinformation op to ruin Biden and help Trump. He won't get prosecuted for that either. He's somewhere sitting fat and happy suffering no pangs of guilt whatsoever.
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 2:06 pm    Post subject:

DancingBarry wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
If the question is which president has done the most long-term damage to America so far, then maybe it's Reagan. But we don't know the end of the Trump story yet. The GOP is currently going full Jim Crow, anti-science, pro-fascist, anti-truth, anti-woman, anti-LGTBQ, anti-Democracy. So, we'll see.


To me, consciousness has already shown the path it will evolve to. Our system will allow that to happen. It may be a painful process, it may take a long time, but it will happen. Only way to prevent our system from allowing it to happen is by dismantling it. The right is currently all aboard that train. I think it will backfire on them miserably.

Trump will ultimately be one of the best things to happen to the left in a long while.


I hope you're right. I just hope I live long enough to see the moral arc of justice bend the right way (paraphrasing MLK).
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 2:18 pm    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
governator wrote:
maybe one of our esteem legal minds can read this and give us an opinion

https://www.businessinsider.com/judge-orders-doj-turn-over-mueller-barr-obstruction-memo-trump-2021-5


I'm not a legal expert but here's what I think...

Bill Barr will likely never suffer the consequences for his lying and deception at DOJ. Mueller himself said Trump could be liable for obstruction of justice after he left office and he criticized Barr for mischaracterizing (lying about) Mueller's views on obstruction. There could be 30 internal memos legally justifying all of Barr's decisions. Or he could lie about what the internal memos said and still suffer no consequences. Bush 2 had his DOJ write legal memos justifying torture. No one in that administration suffered any consequences for that. Barr was in on Rudy's Russian disinformation op to ruin Biden and help Trump. He won't get prosecuted for that either. He's somewhere sitting fat and happy suffering no pangs of guilt whatsoever.


Little more from Politico

Quote:
U.S. District Court Judge Amy Berman Jackson issued that ruling in a withering opinion that accused Barr of being “disingenuous” when describing Mueller’s findings and found that the Justice Department was not candid with the court about the purpose and role of the 2019 memo prepared by Justice’s Office of Legal Counsel.

In response to a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit, Justice Department attorneys argued that the memo was part of the process of advising Barr on whether Trump should be prosecuted, but Jackson said the analysis consisted of a post hoc rationalization of a decision already made.

“The review of the document reveals that the Attorney General was not then engaged in making a decision about whether the President should be charged with obstruction of justice; the fact that he would not be prosecuted was a given,” wrote Jackson, an appointee of former President Barack Obama.

Jackson linked Justice Department’s effort to keep the memo secret to Barr’s initial descriptions of Mueller’s conclusions, declaring both efforts misleading.

“Not only was the Attorney General being disingenuous then, but DOJ has been disingenuous to this Court with respect to the existence of a decision-making process that should be shielded by the deliberative process privilege," she wrote. "The agency’s redactions and incomplete explanations obfuscate the true purpose of the memorandum, and the excised portions belie the notion that it fell to the Attorney General to make a prosecution decision or that any such decision was on the table at any time.”

Jackson noted that another D.C-based federal judge, Reggie Walton, previously criticized Barr’s early description of the Mueller report. She said that criticism was “well-founded.”

Jackson released her opinion in part Monday after reviewing the memo herself, a process which she noted that the Justice Department “strongly resisted.”

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ChefLinda
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 2:45 pm    Post subject:

Shorter Judge Jackson: Bill Barr is a big fat liar and a snake in the grass.
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 2:54 pm    Post subject:

NYT

Quote:
As a federal investigation into Rudolph W. Giuliani escalates, his advisers have been pressing aides to former President Donald J. Trump to reach into a $250 million war chest to pay Mr. Giuliani for his efforts to overturn the results of the 2020 election on Mr. Trump’s behalf.

The pressure from Mr. Giuliani’s camp has intensified since F.B.I. agents executed search warrants at Mr. Giuliani’s home and office last week, according to people familiar with the discussions, and comes as Mr. Giuliani has hired new lawyers and is facing his own protracted — and costly — legal battles.

Some of Mr. Giuliani’s supporters have blamed Mr. Trump’s aides — and not the former president — for the standoff. However, people close to Mr. Trump said he has stridently refused to pay Mr. Giuliani.

Mr. Giuliani’s advisers were also disappointed that he did not receive a federal pardon from Mr. Trump, despite facing the long-running federal investigation into his Ukrainian dealings, a person close to Mr. Giuliani said.

Although there are many differences between the two situations, for some of Mr. Trump’s advisers, the standoff with Mr. Giuliani has raised uncomfortable echoes of a similar dispute with another of Mr. Trump’s former personal lawyers, Michael D. Cohen.


Too bad, so sad. Looks like not only did Trump stiff Rudy and not pay him for all his crazy " legal help", he didn't give him a pardon either. His friends making noise about Trump needing to pay him now seem to suggest first volley in the "will he or won't he flip on Trump" saga?
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 3:00 pm    Post subject:

Ghouliani is snake enough to get money--if he can--out of Trump AND testify against him.

Rats turn on rats.

I hope they all get screwed.
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 3:48 pm    Post subject:

I see talk Trump's Facebook ban might be lifted. If it's true, WHY?

He's the same blight, he's not changed one iota, he's the narcissistic, racist, misogynistic, homophobic, grifter, derogate he's always been.

What's prompting the talk of lifting his Facebook ban? Is Twitter next?
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 4:26 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
I see talk Trump's Facebook ban might be lifted. If it's true, WHY?

He's the same blight, he's not changed one iota, he's the narcissistic, racist, misogynistic, homophobic, grifter, derogate he's always been.

What's prompting the talk of lifting his Facebook ban? Is Twitter next?


$$$ for Facebook
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 4:50 pm    Post subject:

ContagiousInspiration wrote:
I didn't pay much attention to Reagan but at least he put American interests first instead of Trump the Murderer.

That dude laughed his fat ass off when he sent American Trash into our Capitol Building to potentially murder US Politicians

Trump and DeSantis.. both quietly vaccinated

and FWIW ES&S voting machines are the actual criminals in the voting machine debate.. producing more votes than voters for McConnell and others.


Reagan was no better or more honorable than Trump in that regard. Reagan didn't put American interests first. He put his interests first. He just did a better job of disguising it as "Make America Great Again" than Trump did.
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 4:53 pm    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
If the question is which president has done the most long-term damage to America so far, then maybe it's Reagan. But we don't know the end of the Trump story yet. The GOP is currently going full Jim Crow, anti-science, pro-fascist, anti-truth, anti-woman, anti-LGTBQ, anti-Democracy. So, we'll see.


That sums it up perfectly.
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Man, do those lyrics resonate right now
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