I want her to run just to see her torment Trump in the most articulate and vicious way possible every single day of the campaign. And any votes she would siphon off Trump helps the Democrats. When it comes to Trump, she has a special talent for twisting the knife while she guts him. And she does it in a way no high profile Democrat could get a way with.
The debates would be interesting because it would force all the others to pick a side on the Big Lie and Trump's authoritarian ways.
I doubt there will be debates. If Trump announces, the rest of the field will cowardly bow out and let him have it. And Trump would not debate her one-on-one on Fox (or anywhere else) - he's too much of a coward. I expect that after Trump "wins" the nomination, she will run against him as a third-party candidate. And Trump will find an excuse not to debate Biden again.
Also, Republicans have already said they won't participate in any main stream media run debates in the general election.
Assuming Trump doesn't run, why wouldn't, say, Fox invite her to a debate? They'd do it for the drama alone.
The other candidates would want debates to establish themselves, particularly if Trump is out of the picture. _________________ ¡Hala Madrid!
(Brendan Buck: Cheney Lost Her Primary ‘For A Greater Cause,’ Merely The ‘Cost Of Doing Business’)
Quote:
Brendan Buck, former top communications adviser to House Speakers Boehner and Ryan, Dean of the University of Arkansas’ Clinton School of Public Service Victoria DeFrancesco Soto, Washington Post Deputy National Editor Phil Rucker, NBC News Senior Political Editor Mark Murray, and NBC News Senior Political Reporter Jonathan Allen join Andrea Mitchell to lay out their forecasts for how Liz Cheney moves forward following her defeat in Wyoming’s Republican primary for the state’s sole House seat. “What's so remarkable about her is she knew that she was throwing away her seat. That was the cost of doing business. I think it is incredibly commendable to see somebody actually risk their own political life for a greater cause,” says Buck. On a potential 2024 presidential run, Buck says, “The question is, does she run as an independent? And it's unclear whether that is going to siphon away votes from Donald Trump, or actually, Joe Biden.”
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67631 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:55 pm Post subject:
Wilt wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
Wilt wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
I want her to run just to see her torment Trump in the most articulate and vicious way possible every single day of the campaign. And any votes she would siphon off Trump helps the Democrats. When it comes to Trump, she has a special talent for twisting the knife while she guts him. And she does it in a way no high profile Democrat could get a way with.
The debates would be interesting because it would force all the others to pick a side on the Big Lie and Trump's authoritarian ways.
I doubt there will be debates. If Trump announces, the rest of the field will cowardly bow out and let him have it. And Trump would not debate her one-on-one on Fox (or anywhere else) - he's too much of a coward. I expect that after Trump "wins" the nomination, she will run against him as a third-party candidate. And Trump will find an excuse not to debate Biden again.
Also, Republicans have already said they won't participate in any main stream media run debates in the general election.
Assuming Trump doesn't run, why wouldn't, say, Fox invite her to a debate? They'd do it for the drama alone.
The other candidates would want debates to establish themselves, particularly if Trump is out of the picture.
I may be rowing this canoe alone. I don't think Trump can win the nomination. He has too much baggage.
Being the grifter he is he may not run. He may just be building a war chest for his personal use.
If I have it right you don't have to account for campaign funds. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
(Rep. Tlaib RIPS Manchin, Vows To Vote Down His IRA Side Deal ‘We Owe Him Nothing’)
Quote:
Rep. Rashida Tlaib told the American Prospect that "handshake deals made by others in closed rooms do not dictate how I vote, and we sure as hell don't owe Joe Manchin anything now."
I want her to run just to see her torment Trump in the most articulate and vicious way possible every single day of the campaign. And any votes she would siphon off Trump helps the Democrats. When it comes to Trump, she has a special talent for twisting the knife while she guts him. And she does it in a way no high profile Democrat could get a way with.
The debates would be interesting because it would force all the others to pick a side on the Big Lie and Trump's authoritarian ways.
I doubt there will be debates. If Trump announces, the rest of the field will cowardly bow out and let him have it. And Trump would not debate her one-on-one on Fox (or anywhere else) - he's too much of a coward. I expect that after Trump "wins" the nomination, she will run against him as a third-party candidate. And Trump will find an excuse not to debate Biden again.
Also, Republicans have already said they won't participate in any main stream media run debates in the general election.
Assume you're correct and she does run third-party it could easily backfire and siphon off some of the much needed neo-conservative Lincoln Project Never-Trumper type support that helped Biden get elected as well. At this point there's more love for Cheneys on the Democratic side of the isle than the Republican.
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90306 Location: Formerly Known As 24
Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 2:57 pm Post subject:
jodeke wrote:
Wilt wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
Wilt wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
I want her to run just to see her torment Trump in the most articulate and vicious way possible every single day of the campaign. And any votes she would siphon off Trump helps the Democrats. When it comes to Trump, she has a special talent for twisting the knife while she guts him. And she does it in a way no high profile Democrat could get a way with.
The debates would be interesting because it would force all the others to pick a side on the Big Lie and Trump's authoritarian ways.
I doubt there will be debates. If Trump announces, the rest of the field will cowardly bow out and let him have it. And Trump would not debate her one-on-one on Fox (or anywhere else) - he's too much of a coward. I expect that after Trump "wins" the nomination, she will run against him as a third-party candidate. And Trump will find an excuse not to debate Biden again.
Also, Republicans have already said they won't participate in any main stream media run debates in the general election.
Assuming Trump doesn't run, why wouldn't, say, Fox invite her to a debate? They'd do it for the drama alone.
The other candidates would want debates to establish themselves, particularly if Trump is out of the picture.
I may be rowing this canoe alone. I don't think Trump can win the nomination. He has too much baggage.
Being the grifter he is he may not run. He may just be building a war chest for his personal use.
If I have it right you don't have to account for campaign funds.
Trump needs to run. He needs the power to save himself in court. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel
(WaPo: Trump Struggling To Hire Legal Experts Amid Several Investigations)
Quote:
Conservative lawyer George Conway and NBC News correspondent Carol Lee discuss the Trump team's struggles in hiring seasoned lawyers as the former president deals with multiple investigations
NOW: The DOJ has issued a sweeping grand jury subpoena to the National Archives for Trump White House documents including his daily schedule and phone logs preceding January 6.
The Secret Service withheld for days before the Capitol riot threats made on social media toward House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, Vice President Mike Pence, and President Joe Biden, according to Secret Service emails obtained by Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW).
CREW's Jordan Libowitz and Lauren White reported on Wednesday that the Secret Service discovered a Parler account on January 4, 2021 — two days before a violent mob overran the Capitol and interrupted lawmakers who were certifying Joe Biden's win — which features a series of violent threats towards lawmakers. The reporters didn't identify the account.
A post on the Parler account had a list of "enemies," including Pelosi, that had been shared on December 31, 2020. "January 6 starts #1776 all over again…Fight for EVERYTHING," the post said.
But the Secret Service waited until 5:55 p.m. local time on January 6, 2021, to alert the US Capitol Police, whose officers were by then already defending the Capitol against attackers, according to CREW.
"Good afternoon, The US Secret Service is passing notification to the US Capitol Police regarding discovery of a social media threat directed toward Speaker Nancy Pelosi," the Secret Service said in a message to the Capitol Police, per CREW.
(Hayes: Cheney Realized To Save The GOP You Must Save American Democracy)
Quote:
Chris Hayes: “To save the Republican Party, you actually must save American democracy. And somehow, Liz Cheney seems to be one of the only members of her party to grasp this elemental truth.”
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52654 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 6:55 pm Post subject:
jodeke wrote:
Wilt wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
Wilt wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
I want her to run just to see her torment Trump in the most articulate and vicious way possible every single day of the campaign. And any votes she would siphon off Trump helps the Democrats. When it comes to Trump, she has a special talent for twisting the knife while she guts him. And she does it in a way no high profile Democrat could get a way with.
The debates would be interesting because it would force all the others to pick a side on the Big Lie and Trump's authoritarian ways.
I doubt there will be debates. If Trump announces, the rest of the field will cowardly bow out and let him have it. And Trump would not debate her one-on-one on Fox (or anywhere else) - he's too much of a coward. I expect that after Trump "wins" the nomination, she will run against him as a third-party candidate. And Trump will find an excuse not to debate Biden again.
Also, Republicans have already said they won't participate in any main stream media run debates in the general election.
Assuming Trump doesn't run, why wouldn't, say, Fox invite her to a debate? They'd do it for the drama alone.
The other candidates would want debates to establish themselves, particularly if Trump is out of the picture.
I may be rowing this canoe alone. I don't think Trump can win the nomination. He has too much baggage.
Of course he can. He has a (bleep) ton of fanatics who will vote for him, Republican leadership is scared to death of criticizing him because of that and none of them care about the baggage.
Quote:
Being the grifter he is he may not run. He may just be building a war chest for his personal use.
Oh, he will definitely run. His ego alone will drive him to do so. And then there's the fact that he if he runs and wins, his troubles are over forever—dictatorship achieved.
Truth be told, he'd be an absolute fool not run. It can't hurt him and will only help him, win or lose. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Joined: 03 Oct 2003 Posts: 8330 Location: Santa Monica
Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 8:13 pm Post subject:
If Trump runs, it seems like it's pretty much a guarantee he will win the nomination. Plus, he will run for president unless something big, like a major health problem, prevents him from doing so.
I'm just not sure if it's better for the Dems if he's the nominee or if DeSantis is the nominee. Trump is the leader of the cult, but on the other hand, DeSantis is like Trump without his weaknesses.
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90306 Location: Formerly Known As 24
Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 8:26 pm Post subject:
FernieBee wrote:
MSNBC
(Hayes: Cheney Realized To Save The GOP You Must Save American Democracy)
Quote:
Chris Hayes: “To save the Republican Party, you actually must save American democracy. And somehow, Liz Cheney seems to be one of the only members of her party to grasp this elemental truth.”
To be fair to Liz Cheney, she believes about 98% of the same policy as the MAGA people, and the only two disputes she has with them is failing to accept an election and taking away her power within the party. She’s not some white knight. She wants an America that looks like what the MAGA people wants, she just wants it with rules where insiders like her lead the cult, not some crazy rube like trump. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel
Joined: 26 Apr 2004 Posts: 17249 Location: In a no-ship
Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 8:54 pm Post subject:
Omar Little wrote:
FernieBee wrote:
MSNBC
(Hayes: Cheney Realized To Save The GOP You Must Save American Democracy)
Quote:
Chris Hayes: “To save the Republican Party, you actually must save American democracy. And somehow, Liz Cheney seems to be one of the only members of her party to grasp this elemental truth.”
To be fair to Liz Cheney, she believes about 98% of the same policy as the MAGA people, and the only two disputes she has with them is failing to accept an election and taking away her power within the party. She’s not some white knight. She wants an America that looks like what the MAGA people wants, she just wants it with rules where insiders like her lead the cult, not some crazy rube like trump.
Thank you. I can't stand the rallying behind her. She was one of Trump's strongest supporters before Jan 6.
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90306 Location: Formerly Known As 24
Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 9:06 pm Post subject:
Yeah, the people like her who realized they lost their party to the animal base they helped gin up because it went for one of its own horrible morons rather than the party leadership is like a repeat of the establishment guys that financed the tea party only to have them push their masters aside and run “I am not a witch” level rubes and other crazies. They built this base and this base believes most of the things they do. It’s just that the base wants to skip the formalities and go straight to a dictatorship run but their own idiots, because they don’t want to be used by the cheneys of the world. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel
If Trump runs, it seems like it's pretty much a guarantee he will win the nomination. Plus, he will run for president unless something big, like a major health problem, prevents him from doing so.
I'm just not sure if it's better for the Dems if he's the nominee or if DeSantis is the nominee. Trump is the leader of the cult, but on the other hand, DeSantis is like Trump without his weaknesses.
DeSantis also doesn't have Trump's strengths.
Thus far, most people outside Florida don't know him. He has no national profile. The media, both left and right, has tried to elevate him, but I don't think it has resonated with most people. He doesn't have decades of national coverage behind him, like Trump. He'll have to introduce himself to the wider public and most people outside of the MAGA base won't like him. He's a cultural warrior and a dick.
Eventually, he'll have to be more explicit on January 6th and the Big Lie. He's done an effective job of avoiding that stuff for a long time. If he denounces Trump's big lie in any way, he's done politically. If he embraces it, it'll hurt him politically as well.
As many have said in this thread, my biggest worry isn't who the GOP nominates, it's the shenanigans on the ground regarding who votes, whose votes get counted, which electors are counted, etc. _________________ ¡Hala Madrid!
Joined: 03 Oct 2003 Posts: 8330 Location: Santa Monica
Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 11:26 pm Post subject:
Wilt wrote:
slavavov wrote:
If Trump runs, it seems like it's pretty much a guarantee he will win the nomination. Plus, he will run for president unless something big, like a major health problem, prevents him from doing so.
I'm just not sure if it's better for the Dems if he's the nominee or if DeSantis is the nominee. Trump is the leader of the cult, but on the other hand, DeSantis is like Trump without his weaknesses.
DeSantis also doesn't have Trump's strengths.
Thus far, most people outside Florida don't know him. He has no national profile. The media, both left and right, has tried to elevate him, but I don't think it has resonated with most people. He doesn't have decades of national coverage behind him, like Trump. He'll have to introduce himself to the wider public and most people outside of the MAGA base won't like him. He's a cultural warrior and a dick.
Eventually, he'll have to be more explicit on January 6th and the Big Lie. He's done an effective job of avoiding that stuff for a long time. If he denounces Trump's big lie in any way, he's done politically. If he embraces it, it'll hurt him politically as well.
As many have said in this thread, my biggest worry isn't who the GOP nominates, it's the shenanigans on the ground regarding who votes, whose votes get counted, which electors are counted, etc.
I thought DeSantis has been starting to build a national profile, but the bolded is exactly what he is.
When I said he doesn't have Trumps weaknesses, what I meant is that he may be smart enough not to get embroiled in scandal after scandal, or that he's at least smart enough to not say the quiet part out loud and give himself an opportunity to get in trouble.
Besides that, he's got all the other bad qualities that conservatives see as good qualities: taking on what he calls "wokeness" by getting rid of any curriculum in schools that has to do with teaching diversity, waging war on anything that would've helped the pandemic and lots of other things that are aimed at owning the libs.
Its seems more and more Repubs outside of Trump's cult want to distance themselves from Trump, but they want the same authoritarian, Christian nationalist policies that Trump has made mainstream.
My fear is that he's the worst-case scenario: a Trump-like figure who is more refined and stable and plays things close to the vest than Trump ever has.
We may have gotten lucky with Trump because of his laziness and because he's such a loose cannon.
Yeah, the people like her who realized they lost their party to the animal base they helped gin up because it went for one of its own horrible morons rather than the party leadership is like a repeat of the establishment guys that financed the tea party only to have them push their masters aside and run “I am not a witch” level rubes and other crazies. They built this base and this base believes most of the things they do. It’s just that the base wants to skip the formalities and go straight to a dictatorship run but their own idiots, because they don’t want to be used by the cheneys of the world.
Part of the reason it's easy to get seduced into thinking Liz Cheney is "different" than the others is because on the 1/6 committee she comes across as extremely informed, reasonable, rationale, smart and articulate. Quite unlike the screaming ranting Jim Jordan's and Marjorie Taylor Greene's. But I've seen old videos of her from a couple years back screaming about Democrats wanting to kill babies and Obama being a socialist threat to democracy. So, yeah. She's with the GOP white Christian autocracy 99% of the time. She voted against Voting Rights bill, against all of Biden's legislation to save the economy, the environment and create jobs. She celebrated the death of Roe v Wade. She's against any kind of gun legislation. Also, she voted to acquit in Trump's first impeachment. It wasn't until her personal safety was under assault on 1/6 that she finally broke with Trump. In that respect, she has more balls than her GOP counterparts, but that's not saying much.
If Trump runs, it seems like it's pretty much a guarantee he will win the nomination. Plus, he will run for president unless something big, like a major health problem, prevents him from doing so.
I'm just not sure if it's better for the Dems if he's the nominee or if DeSantis is the nominee. Trump is the leader of the cult, but on the other hand, DeSantis is like Trump without his weaknesses.
DeSantis also doesn't have Trump's strengths.
Thus far, most people outside Florida don't know him. He has no national profile. The media, both left and right, has tried to elevate him, but I don't think it has resonated with most people. He doesn't have decades of national coverage behind him, like Trump. He'll have to introduce himself to the wider public and most people outside of the MAGA base won't like him. He's a cultural warrior and a dick.
Eventually, he'll have to be more explicit on January 6th and the Big Lie. He's done an effective job of avoiding that stuff for a long time. If he denounces Trump's big lie in any way, he's done politically. If he embraces it, it'll hurt him politically as well.
As many have said in this thread, my biggest worry isn't who the GOP nominates, it's the shenanigans on the ground regarding who votes, whose votes get counted, which electors are counted, etc.
I thought DeSantis has been starting to build a national profile, but the bolded is exactly what he is.
When I said he doesn't have Trumps weaknesses, what I meant is that he may be smart enough not to get embroiled in scandal after scandal, or that he's at least smart enough to not say the quiet part out loud and give himself an opportunity to get in trouble.
Besides that, he's got all the other bad qualities that conservatives see as good qualities: taking on what he calls "wokeness" by getting rid of any curriculum in schools that has to do with teaching diversity, waging war on anything that would've helped the pandemic and lots of other things that are aimed at owning the libs.
Its seems more and more Repubs outside of Trump's cult want to distance themselves from Trump, but they want the same authoritarian, Christian nationalist policies that Trump has made mainstream.
My fear is that he's the worst-case scenario: a Trump-like figure who is more refined and stable and plays things close to the vest than Trump ever has.
We may have gotten lucky with Trump because of his laziness and because he's such a loose cannon.
I understand all of that, but he needs to get elected first. And in many ways, he's less electable than Trump. _________________ ¡Hala Madrid!
Joined: 19 Nov 2001 Posts: 17658 Location: Orlando
Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 5:02 am Post subject:
Wilt wrote:
slavavov wrote:
Wilt wrote:
slavavov wrote:
If Trump runs, it seems like it's pretty much a guarantee he will win the nomination. Plus, he will run for president unless something big, like a major health problem, prevents him from doing so.
I'm just not sure if it's better for the Dems if he's the nominee or if DeSantis is the nominee. Trump is the leader of the cult, but on the other hand, DeSantis is like Trump without his weaknesses.
DeSantis also doesn't have Trump's strengths.
Thus far, most people outside Florida don't know him. He has no national profile. The media, both left and right, has tried to elevate him, but I don't think it has resonated with most people. He doesn't have decades of national coverage behind him, like Trump. He'll have to introduce himself to the wider public and most people outside of the MAGA base won't like him. He's a cultural warrior and a dick.
Eventually, he'll have to be more explicit on January 6th and the Big Lie. He's done an effective job of avoiding that stuff for a long time. If he denounces Trump's big lie in any way, he's done politically. If he embraces it, it'll hurt him politically as well.
As many have said in this thread, my biggest worry isn't who the GOP nominates, it's the shenanigans on the ground regarding who votes, whose votes get counted, which electors are counted, etc.
I thought DeSantis has been starting to build a national profile, but the bolded is exactly what he is.
When I said he doesn't have Trumps weaknesses, what I meant is that he may be smart enough not to get embroiled in scandal after scandal, or that he's at least smart enough to not say the quiet part out loud and give himself an opportunity to get in trouble.
Besides that, he's got all the other bad qualities that conservatives see as good qualities: taking on what he calls "wokeness" by getting rid of any curriculum in schools that has to do with teaching diversity, waging war on anything that would've helped the pandemic and lots of other things that are aimed at owning the libs.
Its seems more and more Repubs outside of Trump's cult want to distance themselves from Trump, but they want the same authoritarian, Christian nationalist policies that Trump has made mainstream.
My fear is that he's the worst-case scenario: a Trump-like figure who is more refined and stable and plays things close to the vest than Trump ever has.
We may have gotten lucky with Trump because of his laziness and because he's such a loose cannon.
I understand all of that, but he needs to get elected first. And in many ways, he's less electable than Trump.
Yea I’m not convinced he will stand up on a national level. Unfortunately as a resident of Florida I have to be subjected to his (bleep) on the regular. He has a whiny voice and the personality of wallpaper. He’s very stand-offish with people and apparently doesn’t say much in meetings. I think a lot of the righties who like DeSantis only read or hear about what he does but haven’t actually had to hear him speak. Once he starts his rallies a lot of them are going to be like “wait, is this the same guy?”
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