Parker isn't even a top 3 candidate right now. May not be top 4. We'll see.
u mad
What would I be mad about? Wiggins, Randle, and Exum are better prospects right now. Aaron Gordon and Marcus Smart could be better prospects as well. Draft Express has Parker going 7th currently.
Draft Express
Same site that once had Austin Rivers as the 5th best prospect of his batch
Seriously though, I'm pretty sure that I don't watch as much college hoops as those guys (I only watch big games for the most part), but I can't accept how Exum, Gordon and Smart can be ranked higher than Parker. Gordon has Marvin Williams 2.0 written all over him, while Exum and Smart are both decent prospects with a chance to be special, but not on Parker's level. I can understand why Wiggins and Randle are ranked higher, but that's it.
Be that as it may, I'm also willing to concede that it's still way too early in the season and anything can still happen. For all we know, Wiggins/Parker may drop out of the Top 5 if they have Shabazz-esque seasons and a new guy ascends to #1.
Considering Draft Express had Austin Rivers at #5 a year and a half before the draft even happened and he ended up going 10th then I'd call that pretty good. They're the best in the business.
Chad Ford has Parker 4th behind you guessed it Wiggins, Randle, and Exum.
And it's clear from your post that you don't watch a lot of college basketball like you said. Marvin Williams is a terrible comparison to Gordon. Isn't close athletically, couldn't rebound like Gordon, and didn't have a developing inside game like Gordon. He's a legit power forward with fantastic athleticism.
Exum is a 6'6" PG with a Derrick Rose like first step. Some GMs believe he could be in the discussion for the #1 pick come draft time. Marcus Smart is Lebron James in a 6'4" body. He's an absolute terror on defense. How you can't see how those 3 are considered by some a better prospect than Parker is beyond me.
Parker isn't even a top 3 candidate right now. May not be top 4. We'll see.
u mad
What would I be mad about? Wiggins, Randle, and Exum are better prospects right now. Aaron Gordon and Marcus Smart could be better prospects as well. Draft Express has Parker going 7th currently.
Draft Express
Same site that once had Austin Rivers as the 5th best prospect of his batch
Seriously though, I'm pretty sure that I don't watch as much college hoops as those guys (I only watch big games for the most part), but I can't accept how Exum, Gordon and Smart can be ranked higher than Parker. Gordon has Marvin Williams 2.0 written all over him, while Exum and Smart are both decent prospects with a chance to be special, but not on Parker's level. I can understand why Wiggins and Randle are ranked higher, but that's it.
Be that as it may, I'm also willing to concede that it's still way too early in the season and anything can still happen. For all we know, Wiggins/Parker may drop out of the Top 5 if they have Shabazz-esque seasons and a new guy ascends to #1.
Considering Draft Express had Austin Rivers at #5 a year and a half before the draft even happened and he ended up going 10th then I'd call that pretty good. They're the best in the business.
Chad Ford has Parker 4th behind you guessed it Wiggins, Randle, and Exum.
And it's clear from your post that you don't watch a lot of college basketball like you said. Marvin Williams is a terrible comparison to Gordon. Isn't close athletically, couldn't rebound like Gordon, and didn't have a developing inside game like Gordon. He's a legit power forward with fantastic athleticism.
Exum is a 6'6" PG with a Derrick Rose like first step. Some GMs believe he could be in the discussion for the #1 pick come draft time. Marcus Smart is Lebron James in a 6'4" body. He's an absolute terror on defense. How you can't see how those 3 are considered by some a better prospect than Parker is beyond me.
Put me in the Parker camp for now ...but it is STILL early. I hate duke. UNC is may 2nd favorite team (UCLA alumnus) but I just love everything about what I have read or seen on Parker. ESPN has an article that describes Parker as a "reluctant" superstar. Though he only averaged 9 as a freshman on Varsity the kid won 4 straight state titles at the same HS Derrick rose hails from. Very few kids have pulled that anywhere but especially in a state as competitive as Chicago. He had a 3.71 GPA in HS. Qualified to play at duke. Has a Mormon upbringing (not a Mormon) which stresses good moral values.
Then watch the tape. He has a smooth jumper good I would say just below elite athleticism. Scouts say he is a cross between Grant hill and Pierce. Proven winner. Gets to be coached by coach K for a year. To me? He reminds me of Paul George.
This is the guy I want. I havent seen much of Exum.
But tonight on ESPN Randle, Harrison twins will be on display and parker will be facing Wiggins and hopefully they are matched up some so we can judge. Both are at great programs with great coaches and great supporting casts ...so I cant wait. To scout them both.
I plan to watch A LOT of college this year and I will tell you who we should draft if we get the chance. BTW, I was one of the few advocating Durant over Oden based on AAU tape and college games. I saw him play a lot at UT (I live in DFW) and knew Oden was tracking as injury prone early.
TBH I just aint 100% sold on Wiggins. I sense some Felipe Lopez, Marcus Liberty, Shea cotton, Shabazz Muhammed type hype based on athleticism. My guess he will better than all those guys combined but I doubt he is a true game changer.
The experts are not always right ... I too, maybe wrong. But I like Parker.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 2:53 pm Post subject:
Wiggins
Randle
Exum
Parker
Gordon
For those who haven't seen Exum...
Like no one wants a 6'6" PG with a quick first step, outright fast, improving J, and ability to force turnovers? Unselfish? _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Parker is FAR more skilled then Wiggins. He is the far better player as of now. The question is, will he be better 5 years from now? That is a tough one but as of now I love Parker.
Parker is FAR more skilled then Wiggins. He is the far better player as of now. The question is, will he be better 5 years from now? That is a tough one but as of now I love Parker.
Someone said this best on realgm
Anyone who has payed attention to this class know that Randle and Jabari are more polished players and are going to dominate the college game more than Wiggins. The thing is Wiggins has all the tools to be better than either of them.
Parker is FAR more skilled then Wiggins. He is the far better player as of now. The question is, will he be better 5 years from now? That is a tough one but as of now I love Parker.
Someone said this best on realgm
Anyone who has payed attention to this class know that Randle and Jabari are more polished players and are going to dominate the college game more than Wiggins. The thing is Wiggins has all the tools to be better than either of them.
I dont see no killer mentality, no bball IQ and nothing more than athleticism on Wiggins. Of course he can develop and can also have the higher ceiling, but can he reach it?
Great finish in this game. Certainly gonna be the first of many Parker-Wiggins match ups. Parker was solid throughout the game while Wiggins took his time in the first 35 minutes (foul trouble had something to do with it as well) or so before deciding to turn it up a notch. I'm still leaning towards Jabari.
Parker is FAR more skilled then Wiggins. He is the far better player as of now. The question is, will he be better 5 years from now? That is a tough one but as of now I love Parker.
Someone said this best on realgm
Anyone who has payed attention to this class know that Randle and Jabari are more polished players and are going to dominate the college game more than Wiggins. The thing is Wiggins has all the tools to be better than either of them.
By tools did they mean athletic ability?
Dude is more athletic than 19y/o LeBron but he needs to bulk up a lot. Will he retain that explosiveness when he gains about 15 pounds of muscle?
He certainly has the tools to catch up with Parker and Randle, but does he have the drive?
Parker is FAR more skilled then Wiggins. He is the far better player as of now. The question is, will he be better 5 years from now? That is a tough one but as of now I love Parker.
Someone said this best on realgm
Anyone who has payed attention to this class know that Randle and Jabari are more polished players and are going to dominate the college game more than Wiggins. The thing is Wiggins has all the tools to be better than either of them.
By tools did they mean athletic ability?
Dude is more athletic than 19y/o LeBron but he needs to bulk up a lot. Will he retain that explosiveness when he gains about 15 pounds of muscle?
He certainly has the tools to catch up with Parker and Randle, but does he have the drive?
the end of the game shows me he can he had a lil Kobe in him making big plays down the stretch
Parker is FAR more skilled then Wiggins. He is the far better player as of now. The question is, will he be better 5 years from now? That is a tough one but as of now I love Parker.
Someone said this best on realgm
Anyone who has payed attention to this class know that Randle and Jabari are more polished players and are going to dominate the college game more than Wiggins. The thing is Wiggins has all the tools to be better than either of them.
By tools did they mean athletic ability?
Dude is more athletic than 19y/o LeBron but he needs to bulk up a lot. Will he retain that explosiveness when he gains about 15 pounds of muscle?
He certainly has the tools to catch up with Parker and Randle, but does he have the drive?
the end of the game shows me he can he had a lil Kobe in him making big plays down the stretch
If that meant he had some Mamba in his blood, then I guess we can say Parker's veins are 2/3 filled with it.
I have to admit I was impressed with how Wiggins closed the game, especially considering how bad he started it, but there have been long periods of time when he just isn't making an impact. Reminds me too much of Carter-T-Mac at the moment.
Parker is FAR more skilled then Wiggins. He is the far better player as of now. The question is, will he be better 5 years from now? That is a tough one but as of now I love Parker.
Someone said this best on realgm
Anyone who has payed attention to this class know that Randle and Jabari are more polished players and are going to dominate the college game more than Wiggins. The thing is Wiggins has all the tools to be better than either of them.
By tools did they mean athletic ability?
Dude is more athletic than 19y/o LeBron but he needs to bulk up a lot. Will he retain that explosiveness when he gains about 15 pounds of muscle?
He certainly has the tools to catch up with Parker and Randle, but does he have the drive?
the end of the game shows me he can he had a lil Kobe in him making big plays down the stretch
If that meant he had some Mamba in his blood, then I guess we can say Parker's veins are 2/3 filled with it.
I have to admit I was impressed with how Wiggins closed the game, especially considering how bad he started it, but there have been long periods of time when he just isn't making an impact. Reminds me too much of Carter-T-Mac at the moment.
The foul trouble messed him up but Wiggins will get better I just think he turns it up when the team neeeds him another thing thats underrated is Wiggins Defense guy played amazing down the stretch That KU team is scary good if Embid develops I think they win it all
BTW, Dude is not more athletic than a 19 year old LeBron, which was basically Wiggins in Parker's body at 6'8" with a 7' wingspan and 225lbs.
And yes, 4th best prospect. Offense is one side of the floor. Great team defender, but man defense is a question mark at the next level.
You think I'd worry about that with Wiggins, Randle, or Exum?
Nope.
Wiggins IMO is more athletic than young Bron. LeBron's athleticism only took off in his 3rd year. That started a five year stretch where his first step became faster, he became stronger and dealt better with contact at the rim, and his body grew larger without losing speed. Which isn't to say that LBJ in his first year was Ray Allen 2.0, just not on Wiggins' level at the moment. Wiggins' athleticism reminds me of Westbrook in a 6'7-8 frame.
Wiggins' defense? Really?
Are we even watching the same player? Again, all I see is untapped potential. He hasn't done anything special yet (in college) to suggest that he can be an elite defender for the rest of the season or the NBA.
Not that I'm saying steals are the one and only measure of defensive prowess, but I'd gladly take the "bad" defense from Parker that led to his three steals, than this supposed potential that Wiggins has on that end which he has yet to justify.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:59 am Post subject:
I'm just going to stop here, because I don't know how long you've been watching these prospects, or HS prospects into the NCAA level.
LeBron was 6'6" 215 at age 15, a wide receiver at his HS at Kobe Bryant's NBA size. The speed, vert, and power were already there. The only thing that got added at the NBA level was PF-like strength. Two sport athlete doing speed training, strength training, then adding basketball. That's it. Think about that.
Wiggins is more like McGrady in terms of frame; long wingspan, blowby speed, Marion-like hops, but he's not carrying extra weight/strength with him like LeBron did either.
As for Wiggins' defense, he has the physical tools. Pretty much, that's all that matters. Kobe Bryant wasn't an elite defender until he turned 21, learning from Gary Payton.
Here's the defense at the NBA level btw. Parker had those impactful plays during the game, but couldn't do a damn thing on that breakaway dunk. NBA level defense? It's not Parker trying to reject that Wiggins slam, it's LeBron James, or any other multitude of elitely athletic wings that aren't even superstar players.
Even Durant doesn't have that kind of athletic ability, he just has a 7'5" wingspan to make up for it. Parker? No.
You're placing too much emphasis on what you see now, as to what can actually happen at the next level. I'd hate to see what you would think of Kobe Bryant, Kevin Garnett, Tracy McGrady, and other elite HS recruits this early on. But I guess people are spoiled considering LeBron was a 20ppg player, starting at PG for Cleveland with Ricky Davis at SG right out of the gate. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
I'm just going to stop here, because I don't know how long you've been watching these prospects, or HS prospects into the NCAA level.
LeBron was 6'6" 215 at age 15, a wide receiver at his HS at Kobe Bryant's NBA size. The speed, vert, and power were already there. The only thing that got added at the NBA level was PF-like strength. Two sport athlete doing speed training, strength training, then adding basketball. That's it. Think about that.
Wiggins is more like McGrady in terms of frame; long wingspan, blowby speed, Marion-like hops, but he's not carrying extra weight/strength with him like LeBron did either.
As for Wiggins' defense, he has the physical tools. Pretty much, that's all that matters. Kobe Bryant wasn't an elite defender until he turned 21, learning from Gary Payton.
Here's the defense at the NBA level btw. Parker had those impactful plays during the game, but couldn't do a damn thing on that breakaway dunk. NBA level defense? It's not Parker trying to reject that Wiggins slam, it's LeBron James, or any other multitude of elitely athletic wings that aren't even superstar players.
Even Durant doesn't have that kind of athletic ability, he just has a 7'5" wingspan to make up for it. Parker? No.
You're placing too much emphasis on what you see now, as to what can actually happen at the next level. I'd hate to see what you would think of Kobe Bryant, Kevin Garnett, Tracy McGrady, and other elite HS recruits this early on. But I guess people are spoiled considering LeBron was a 20ppg player, starting at PG for Cleveland with Ricky Davis at SG right out of the gate.
Im with the TMAC comparisons for Wiggins. Great explosion, long, athletic. and if he develops TMac's range then he will be a beast in the NBA. But if you watched that game Parker defended Kansas bigs, rebounded in traffic, made some smart passes and for me.... that steal followed by the coast to coast up and under layup was more impressive than Parker's Grant Hillesque alley-oop dunk. I loved the way Wiggins finished that game. But Parker had to do a lot more for Duke than Wiggins had to do for Kansas. For now, for me it's Parker. More polish and cariety to his game. A smooth jumper. high bball IQ.
Randle also had a great finish for Kentucky. But I worry his height will be an issue. Can he be the black Kevin Love? He reminds me of a cross between Zbo and Jamal Mashburn. Zbo's lefty game with Mashburn type handles.
Wiggins seems like the "Toronto version" of TMAc.
Maybe a moot point. if Lakers stay close to .500 ... we may end up with one of the Harrison twins ...
Last edited by Killakobe81 on Wed Nov 13, 2013 9:01 am; edited 1 time in total
LeBron was 6'6" 215 at age 15, a wide receiver at his HS at Kobe Bryant's NBA size. The speed, vert, and power were already there. The only thing that got added at the NBA level was PF-like strength. Two sport athlete doing speed training, strength training, then adding basketball. That's it. Think about that.
Wrong. Watch footage of LBJ's HS days and first two years. The vert was there, but the speed, power and body control were all things he added eventually in his career.
Quote:
As for Wiggins' defense, he has the physical tools. Pretty much, that's all that matters. Kobe Bryant wasn't an elite defender until he turned 21, learning from Gary Payton.
Physical tools are all that matters? Yikes
At this rate, Wiggins is heading towards Ariza-level on the defensive end. Solid, but not what I would consider an elite defender. What good can all his gifts amount to when he has no idea how to use them? He's done nothing but rely on his speed, leaping ability and wingspan; very Ariza-like.
Quote:
Here's the defense at the NBA level btw. Parker had those impactful plays during the game, but couldn't do a damn thing on that breakaway dunk. NBA level defense? It's not Parker trying to reject that Wiggins slam, it's LeBron James, or any other multitude of elitely athletic wings that aren't even superstar players.
I'm not even going to defend Parker in that situation. As previously stated, Wiggins is a freak athlete. I honestly don't think anyone not named LeBron, Dwight, Westbrook or Rose in this day and age could've caught up with Wiggins on that possession.
Quote:
Even Durant doesn't have that kind of athletic ability, he just has a 7'5" wingspan to make up for it. Parker? No.
Parker has a totally different body type than KD. Who says he has to play exactly the same type of defense such as KD/LBJ to be an effective defender? Who says there should only be one way to defend?
What if Jabari becomes Ron Artest 2.0 in the next level? Don't tell me it's out of the realm of possibility, he certainly has the frame for it. All that's needed are the fast hands and the additional muscle.
Quote:
You're placing too much emphasis on what you see now, as to what can actually happen at the next level. I'd hate to see what you would think of Kobe Bryant, Kevin Garnett, Tracy McGrady, and other elite HS recruits this early on. But I guess people are spoiled considering LeBron was a 20ppg player, starting at PG for Cleveland with Ricky Davis at SG right out of the gate.
Pretty ironic coming from the guy who's making such a big deal out of Parker's inability to stop Wiggins' game-sealing dunk
For the record, I wasn't able to see Kobe in his HS days, but everything I've read suggests he, unlike Wiggins, never took plays off. That by itself is a huge advantage, at least in my book.
Last edited by MambaMentality on Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:15 am; edited 1 time in total
But Parker had to do a lot more for Duke than Wiggins had to do for Kansas.
That probably had something to do with how Wiggins was able to close the game out while Parker ran out of gas towards the end.
Quote:
Randle also had a great finish for Kentucky. But I worry his height will be an issue. Can he be the black Kevin Love? He reminds me of a cross between Zbo and Jamal Mashburn. Zbo's left game with Mashburn type handles.
Wow, this is incredibly accurate. Couldn't have put it any better.
Jabari has that special "it" that all the great players have. I think he can turn into a better Melo
I love Randle's post game in a day in time where nobody wants to play in the post
If you get a top 5 draft pick in this draft you have a great chance of getting a pure stud in Parker,Wiggins,Randle,Exum, or Smart
Hopefully the Lakers win only 25 games instead of 40 _________________ "He's a Zen master, so he can speak to you, and he doesn't need a microphone; you can hear him in your head, 'Ron, don't shoot, don't shoot.' Whatever, pow, three. I love the Zen, though."
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:42 am Post subject:
Fan0Bynum17 wrote:
Lets be honest here, defense doesn't make superstar players, offense does.
Agreed. But considering they keep softening the perimeter play, you can bet wingspan and quickness matter.
It especially mattered that Shaq and Bryant could play both ends. It took Nowitzki his entire career before he got his. The timing was right, and the right team had to be built around him to hide his deficiencies.
What is Miami prided on now? Defense into transition play.
But, I think too much is being made on Wiggins's first widely televised NCAA game against equal comp. I don't think he wimped out like everyone thinks/says he did. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
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