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DancingBarry
Editor-in-Chief
Joined: 07 Sep 2001
Posts: 40222
Location: O.C.
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 Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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| davidse wrote: | i don't get jackson at all.
first - he uses the big line up which is a mistake in the first place imo, but ok - his call.
but THEN, WITH the big line up - we try to run ???
we don't move the ball, we don't make sure we get into our half court offense every time down the floor, we take quick shots...
sure, some players our totaly out of it - especially bynum and odom, but phil was (again) a huge disappointment for me tonight. |
Big lineup was a -1 last night. Wasn't where we got killed.
We didn't even get killed on the fastbreak (which can be an offense-defense problem). We just got worked in the halfcourt with some very soft, confused D. Suns picked it apart. |
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DancingBarry
Editor-in-Chief
Joined: 07 Sep 2001
Posts: 40222
Location: O.C.
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| Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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| 8750 wrote: | thanks, DB
last season we had exactly the same problems: good old derek being a huge liability, bynum not knowing the game, a very poor bench, too much complaisance... now it seems that every problem is worse: at pg we are maybe the weakest team in the league, bynum is always out of position, lack of motivation is sometimes frustrating, especially from lamar... i think that we still have somethinng more than boston, san antonio, cleveland, orlando, denver... but our problems can't be undervalued |
I don't like the PG situation. Not sure if anything is going to happen there.
The motivation issue is something I think you have to deal with when you've got any team coming off a championship. It happened with the three-peat team. Happens with most teams that don't repeat. It's never been a problem with Kobe. Not a problem with Artest. But at least we've got some guys/coaches who have been there and can deal with it. |
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A Mad Chinaman
Star Player
Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Posts: 6186
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| Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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| DancingBarry wrote: | | 8750 wrote: | thanks, DB
last season we had exactly the same problems: good old derek being a huge liability, bynum not knowing the game, a very poor bench, too much complaisance... now it seems that every problem is worse: at pg we are maybe the weakest team in the league, bynum is always out of position, lack of motivation is sometimes frustrating, especially from lamar... i think that we still have somethinng more than boston, san antonio, cleveland, orlando, denver... but our problems can't be undervalued |
I don't like the PG situation. Not sure if anything is going to happen there.
The motivation issue is something I think you have to deal with when you've got any team coming off a championship. It happened with the three-peat team. Happens with most teams that don't repeat. It's never been a problem with Kobe. Not a problem with Artest. But at least we've got some guys/coaches who have been there and can deal with it. |
DB or Emplay - would a trade (i.e. Jose Calderon for Farmar/Ammo/Cash) would provide a spark in the lineup while risking that Jose will quickly learn the Tri offense?
Since T-Mac is available, is there any combination of Ammo/Farmar/Sasha/Cash available to the Lakers?
Previous post stated that the issue of a weakside double onto our "bigs" is causing a problem. It would seem that the Tri have various counters to that, though with LO being inconsistent or falling asleem - they are able to do that. If LO would cut upon his man's release and/or post on the low box/pinch post, these issues would be addressed. |
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airball2
Rookie
Joined: 23 Nov 2009
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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| A Mad Chinaman wrote: | | DancingBarry wrote: | | 8750 wrote: | thanks, DB
last season we had exactly the same problems: good old derek being a huge liability, bynum not knowing the game, a very poor bench, too much complaisance... now it seems that every problem is worse: at pg we are maybe the weakest team in the league, bynum is always out of position, lack of motivation is sometimes frustrating, especially from lamar... i think that we still have somethinng more than boston, san antonio, cleveland, orlando, denver... but our problems can't be undervalued |
I don't like the PG situation. Not sure if anything is going to happen there.
The motivation issue is something I think you have to deal with when you've got any team coming off a championship. It happened with the three-peat team. Happens with most teams that don't repeat. It's never been a problem with Kobe. Not a problem with Artest. But at least we've got some guys/coaches who have been there and can deal with it. |
DB or Emplay - would a trade (i.e. Jose Calderon for Farmar/Ammo/Cash) would provide a spark in the lineup while risking that Jose will quickly learn the Tri offense?
Since T-Mac is available, is there any combination of Ammo/Farmar/Sasha/Cash available to the Lakers?
Previous post stated that the issue of a weakside double onto our "bigs" is causing a problem. It would seem that the Tri have various counters to that, though with LO being inconsistent or falling asleem - they are able to do that. If LO would cut upon his man's release and/or post on the low box/pinch post, these issues would be addressed. |
Calderon for Farmar and whatever would be awesome! |
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Rick12322
Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 19164
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| Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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| DancingBarry wrote: | | davidse wrote: | i don't get jackson at all.
first - he uses the big line up which is a mistake in the first place imo, but ok - his call.
but THEN, WITH the big line up - we try to run ???
we don't move the ball, we don't make sure we get into our half court offense every time down the floor, we take quick shots...
sure, some players our totaly out of it - especially bynum and odom, but phil was (again) a huge disappointment for me tonight. |
Big lineup was a -1 last night. Wasn't where we got killed.
We didn't even get killed on the fastbreak (which can be an offense-defense problem). We just got worked in the halfcourt with some very soft, confused D. Suns picked it apart. |
Teams have been using the same tactics against our halfcourt D, especially since Utah. They know our C's job is to guard their guy and guard the paint, and they are using shooting bigs to stretch the line between the shooting big and the players trying to come off high screens into the paint. There are various similar options that are being run, some to great effect(Utah, Cavs, Sac and now the Suns. We got by Sac. but they were doing the same thing.
The first time I really noticed this was on a play where Carlos Boozer was on the left baseline, Drew was trying to keep tabs on him and a SF coming off the high screen; Boozer walked back toward the corner, Drew went to make a play on the penetration, the pass goes to Boozer(a Laker rotated to him leaving a shooter open at the 3) then out to the 3 line for an open and made 3. This is the essence of what teams are doing to our "guard the hen house Philosophy."
This is what makes me think it's time to re-evaluate our defensive strategy. Or we just better get better. |
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airball2
Rookie
Joined: 23 Nov 2009
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Rick12322 wrote: | | DancingBarry wrote: | | davidse wrote: | i don't get jackson at all.
first - he uses the big line up which is a mistake in the first place imo, but ok - his call.
but THEN, WITH the big line up - we try to run ???
we don't move the ball, we don't make sure we get into our half court offense every time down the floor, we take quick shots...
sure, some players our totaly out of it - especially bynum and odom, but phil was (again) a huge disappointment for me tonight. |
Big lineup was a -1 last night. Wasn't where we got killed.
We didn't even get killed on the fastbreak (which can be an offense-defense problem). We just got worked in the halfcourt with some very soft, confused D. Suns picked it apart. |
Teams have been using the same tactics against our halfcourt D, especially since Utah. They know our C's job is to guard their guy and guard the paint, and they are using shooting bigs to stretch the line between the shooting big and the players trying to come off high screens into the paint. There are various similar options that are being run, some to great effect(Utah, Cavs, Sac and now the Suns. We got by Sac. but they were doing the same thing.
The first time I really noticed this was on a play where Carlos Boozer was on the left baseline, Drew was trying to keep tabs on him and a SF coming off the high screen; Boozer walked back toward the corner, Drew went to make a play on the penetration, the pass goes to Boozer(a Laker rotated to him leaving a shooter open at the 3) then out to the 3 line for an open and made 3. This is the essence of what teams are doing to our "guard the hen house Philosophy."
This is what makes me think it's time to re-evaluate our defensive strategy. Or we just better get better. |
I think its a matter of our guards doing a poor job in staying in front, and our bigs doing a poor job hedging. It looks to me that Drew may not be all the way back from his knee injuries. Can't fault the poor guy for having two major injuries over the last couple of years. Let's hope he can get through January! |
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davidse
Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Jul 2005
Posts: 14302
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| Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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| DancingBarry wrote: | | davidse wrote: | i don't get jackson at all.
first - he uses the big line up which is a mistake in the first place imo, but ok - his call.
but THEN, WITH the big line up - we try to run ???
we don't move the ball, we don't make sure we get into our half court offense every time down the floor, we take quick shots...
sure, some players our totaly out of it - especially bynum and odom, but phil was (again) a huge disappointment for me tonight. |
Big lineup was a -1 last night. Wasn't where we got killed.
We didn't even get killed on the fastbreak (which can be an offense-defense problem). We just got worked in the halfcourt with some very soft, confused D. Suns picked it apart. |
my issue was the pace.
IF you decide to play the big line up (which i wouldn't) - at least make sure you put yourself in a position to benefit from it - which can only hapen by controlling the pace and moving the ball patiently on offense.
whether we hanged around or even led with that line up - you knew watching the game that the pace will catch up with us.
we tried to counter suns basketball with the opposite type of line up - but still played right into their hands with their type of game and pace.
how can you expect to win like that ?
that's not to say that the half court d wasn't a huge huge issue, but i didn't see the line ups or the controll of pace that i thought would give us a chance to win. and that's all coaching. |
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ssiknick833
Franchise Player
Joined: 02 Jul 2009
Posts: 13890
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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| DancingBarry wrote: | | Mandry14 wrote: | | DancingBarry wrote: | | Mandry14 wrote: | | Missing Ariza anyone? |
It's December. We have the best record in the league despite having Pau out for half the games. What's to miss? |
Yeah best record cuz of David Stern. |
What's next, "the my dad can beat up your dad"?
Weak stuff, troll. |
 Nice DB
Thanks for posting btw.
_________________
| akola wrote: | KILL BILL Artest.
R.I.P. wheelchair |
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A Mad Chinaman
Star Player
Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Posts: 6186
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| Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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| airball2 wrote: | | Rick12322 wrote: | | DancingBarry wrote: | | davidse wrote: | | i don't get jackson at all. first - he uses the big line up which is a mistake in the first place imo, but ok - his call. but THEN, WITH the big line up - we try to run ??? we don't move the ball, we don't make sure we get into our half court offense every time down the floor, we take quick shots... sure, some players our totaly out of it - especially bynum and odom, but phil was (again) a huge disappointment for me tonight. |
Big lineup was a -1 last night. Wasn't where we got killed. We didn't even get killed on the fastbreak (which can be an offense-defense problem). We just got worked in the halfcourt with some very soft, confused D. Suns picked it apart. |
Teams have been using the same tactics against our halfcourt D, especially since Utah. They know our C's job is to guard their guy and guard the paint, and they are using shooting bigs to stretch the line between the shooting big and the players trying to come off high screens into the paint. There are various similar options that are being run, some to great effect(Utah, Cavs, Sac and now the Suns. We got by Sac. but they were doing the same thing.
The first time I really noticed this was on a play where Carlos Boozer was on the left baseline, Drew was trying to keep tabs on him and a SF coming off the high screen; Boozer walked back toward the corner, Drew went to make a play on the penetration, the pass goes to Boozer(a Laker rotated to him leaving a shooter open at the 3) then out to the 3 line for an open and made 3. This is the essence of what teams are doing to our "guard the hen house Philosophy."
This is what makes me think it's time to re-evaluate our defensive strategy. Or we just better get better. |
I think its a matter of our guards doing a poor job in staying in front, and our bigs doing a poor job hedging. It looks to me that Drew may not be all the way back from his knee injuries. Can't fault the poor guy for having two major injuries over the last couple of years. Let's hope he can get through January! |
With the Tri being a read and react offense, it's the players on the court ultimately deciding the pace - hence the PG deficiencies are exposed. If the PG is unable to consistency stay in front of their player (DFish) or making poor decisions (Farmar) - the "bigs" are at the mercy of the opposing teams where their inconsistencies (Bynum) are even more exposed. With PJ wanting to save DFish for the playoffs and Farmar in a contract year - a clearer understanding if Jordan can perform under the brightest lights is becoming more clearer every game he plays. Still the Lakers are still the class of the league - if they can play to the fullest of their ability/talent |
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