Just so I'm understanding, you guys would choose an 81 year old Joe Biden over Whitmer, Harris, Newsome, Buttigieg, Warnock or Beshear for this existential election where democracy itself is on the ballot and you're quite literally facing an authoritarian fascist dictatorship? Joe Biden is the absolute BEST that the democratic party can offer the U.S and the world? Jost so I'm hearing and understanding this correctly.
It's way too late to change course. None of those people are electable at this point.
Yep, the Democratic primary is over. Democrats chose Biden. Switching to an untested candidate (even is that was structurally possible and I don't think it is) is political suicide.
Another wrinkle -- Red states are already threatening legal challenges to to any candidate replacing Biden and would sue to keep them off the ballot (as it might technically violate state regulations to get on the ballot).
And if you tried to pick a new candidate at the convention, it would tear the party apart (does anyone remember the Bernie Bros vs $hillary at that convention?).
People need to accept reality, band together and rally around our candidate.
Then as you said, filter out the noise, and forge ahead.
Just so I'm understanding, you guys would choose an 81 year old Joe Biden over Whitmer, Harris, Newsome, Buttigieg, Warnock or Beshear for this existential election where democracy itself is on the ballot and you're quite literally facing an authoritarian fascist dictatorship? Joe Biden is the absolute BEST that the democratic party can offer the U.S and the world? Jost so I'm hearing and understanding this correctly.
It's way too late to change course. None of those people are electable at this point.
Yep, the Democratic primary is over. Democrats chose Biden. Switching to an untested candidate (even is that was structurally possible and I don't think it is) is political suicide.
Another wrinkle -- Red states are already threatening legal challenges to to any candidate replacing Biden and would sue to keep them off the ballot (as it might technically violate state regulations to get on the ballot).
And if you tried to pick a new candidate at the convention, it would tear the party apart (does anyone remember the Bernie Bros vs $hillary at that convention?).
People need to accept reality, band together and rally around our candidate.
We just have to get through this election, defeat Trump, and never make this mistake again.
Between RBG, Feinstein, and now Biden.
We can’t let the political ambitions of octogenarians compromise the whole party. There’s too much at stake.
Fingers crossed the post debate polling in swing states is recoverable between now and November.
With all due respect because we're on the same side and want the same thing -- Joe Biden was the only candidate who could beat Trump in 2020 and that's why he won the primary over the younger candidates. It took an old respected white man to beat the other old white guy (because racism and sexism and bigotry are still a thing in White America). Joe Biden is the only person to beat Trump. We had a primary for 2024. Biden won because the Democratic base voted for him -- again. Incumbent presidents always run for re-election. Biden said from the beginning he intended to run again. There is no mystery here. Sometimes history plays out the way it plays out and you can't wish it away. I wanted Hillary, then Warren or Harris. But it didn't happen that way. It happened the only way it was destined to happen. Biden can beat Trump again.
Basically, this is happening because of who Trump is and who Republicans are. If Trump wasn't running, it would have been a completely different landscape. But when they decided to run with their convicted felon, rapist, lying, racist, Nazi then we had to counter with the only person who ever beat him.
To be frank, the Black Democratic base understands this with perfect clarity. It's mostly other groups who can't wrap their heads around why just any old candidate couldn't beat horrible, no-good Trump. Black voters understand the pervasiveness and insidiousness of racism in this country in a way that most of us have never been forced to contemplate.
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 68604 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2024 2:18 pm Post subject:
We have to keep Biden upright till the election is over. When he wins and the Democrats are in control he can start to tone things down. He can run the country from DC. Instead of traveling have foreign leaders come to America. Appoint a qualified staff and delegate. The number one priority is to win the Oval Office. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 68604 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2024 2:24 pm Post subject:
Murdock wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
Murdock wrote:
Just so I'm understanding, you guys would choose an 81 year old Joe Biden over Whitmer, Harris, Newsome, Buttigieg, Warnock or Beshear for this existential election where democracy itself is on the ballot and you're quite literally facing an authoritarian fascist dictatorship? Joe Biden is the absolute BEST that the democratic party can offer the U.S and the world? Jost so I'm hearing and understanding this correctly.
It's way too late to change course. None of those people are electable at this point.
We're screwed.
Hold that feeling but go to the polls. Please encourage your friends and voice the emergency and importance of their vote. Don't give up. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Just so I'm understanding, you guys would choose an 81 year old Joe Biden over Whitmer, Harris, Newsome, Buttigieg, Warnock or Beshear for this existential election where democracy itself is on the ballot and you're quite literally facing an authoritarian fascist dictatorship? Joe Biden is the absolute BEST that the democratic party can offer the U.S and the world? Jost so I'm hearing and understanding this correctly.
It's way too late to change course. None of those people are electable at this point.
We're screwed.
Hold that feeling but go to the polls. Please encourage your friends and voice the emergency and importance of their vote. Don't give up.
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 68604 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2024 2:53 pm Post subject:
Murdock wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Murdock wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
Murdock wrote:
Just so I'm understanding, you guys would choose an 81 year old Joe Biden over Whitmer, Harris, Newsome, Buttigieg, Warnock or Beshear for this existential election where democracy itself is on the ballot and you're quite literally facing an authoritarian fascist dictatorship? Joe Biden is the absolute BEST that the democratic party can offer the U.S and the world? Jost so I'm hearing and understanding this correctly.
It's way too late to change course. None of those people are electable at this point.
We're screwed.
Hold that feeling but go to the polls. Please encourage your friends and voice the emergency and importance of their vote. Don't give up.
Never give up, still a long way to go to November
Count Down To Election Day _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Just so I'm understanding, you guys would choose an 81 year old Joe Biden over Whitmer, Harris, Newsome, Buttigieg, Warnock or Beshear for this existential election where democracy itself is on the ballot and you're quite literally facing an authoritarian fascist dictatorship? Joe Biden is the absolute BEST that the democratic party can offer the U.S and the world? Jost so I'm hearing and understanding this correctly.
It's way too late to change course. None of those people are electable at this point.
After listening to this explanation, I agree.. You're correct.. and anyone who doubts that Biden is the way forward should listen to this as well..
Answer comes at 20:00 minutes into the discussion..
We aren't relying on polls but just to keep people from slitting their wrists over one debate performance, here's one of the first post-debate polls of registered voters. Basically race is still close 50/50 with a long time to go.
Quote:
Political Polls @Politics_Polls
National @MorningConsult Post-Debate Poll: (Shift since 6/23):
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29873 Location: La La Land
Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2024 6:06 pm Post subject:
ChefLinda wrote:
kikanga wrote:
We just have to get through this election, defeat Trump, and never make this mistake again.
Between RBG, Feinstein, and now Biden.
We can’t let the political ambitions of octogenarians compromise the whole party. There’s too much at stake.
Fingers crossed the post debate polling in swing states is recoverable between now and November.
With all due respect because we're on the same side and want the same thing -- Joe Biden was the only candidate who could beat Trump in 2020 and that's why he won the primary over the younger candidates. It took an old respected white man to beat the other old white guy (because racism and sexism and bigotry are still a thing in White America). Joe Biden is the only person to beat Trump. We had a primary for 2024. Biden won because the Democratic base voted for him -- again. Incumbent presidents always run for re-election. Biden said from the beginning he intended to run again. There is no mystery here. Sometimes history plays out the way it plays out and you can't wish it away. I wanted Hillary, then Warren or Harris. But it didn't happen that way. It happened the only way it was destined to happen. Biden can beat Trump again.
I agree with 95-99% of your analysis. So I'm going to bite my tongue on this one. No point in finger pointing. We have an election to win.
At the end of the day, I'm not happy. Because the debate went poorly on multiple levels. We just disagree on how avoidable it was.
I'm going to do my part as much as I can in a non-swing state. And I hope we can look back on this election after a win. And plan to make things even better for the future. _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”
Way back when, I didn't want any old white male candidates either. I didn't want Biden or Bernie. I wanted a woman, or someone of color, preferably younger. But there was no consensus for any of those people. We don't have some magical all-knowing head of the Democratic party who calls everyone into a private meeting and decides who the candidate should be. They used to do that in smoky rooms with cigar smoking party bosses who decided everything and the voters had no input.
But choice and Democracy are messy. When Hillary was the consensus candidate, the Bernie Bros sincerely believed she was "selected" by some DNC party bosses to be anointed. But it was the primary voters, state by state, who decide these things. It's a big messy tent party with no one faction in charge.
Should Barack Obama have called up Joe a couple of years ago and told him not to run again? He would give Joe his opinion if asked, but he's not in charge. Nor is Bill Clinton or Hillary, or Nancy Pelosi or any single Democrat.
We aren't like the Republicans who take their orders from the Federalist Society and billionaires who come up with a script they send over to Fox News to parrot 3 billion times a day. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I really can't see a realistic scenario in which Biden would have promised not to run again or withdrawn after running for a second term without resulting chaos. That's why incumbents almost always run again and that's why chaos ensues when they don't.
Btw, let's assume for a second that Biden does withdraw and Kamala Harris emerges as frontrunner, the same people (mostly leftists and anti-Trump former Republicans like Bill Kristol) that are complaining now about Biden being too old would be complaining that Harris is unlikeable and too connected to Biden. And the media will go along with that, creating a new narrative going into the election.
Biden, despite his flaws, is probably the best bet to beat Trump. Especially if he executes the final stretch well (good second debate performance, good speech at the convention, strong speeches at campaign events).
And Trump will continue being Trump and that inherently helps Biden. _________________ ¡Hala Madrid!
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 68604 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2024 6:47 pm Post subject:
I'm of the school that thinks Hillary wasn't elected because she was a woman. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
I'm of the school that thinks Hillary wasn't elected because she was a woman.
Me too. The way people talked about her in that election, and still talk about her to this day. I think Kamala is hitting that same roadblock in certain people's brains. The amount of times I heard how emotional or shrill Hillary was, when Trump spent his presidency raging about everything. Hillary sat through hours of Benghazi questioning completely rationally and coherent, while Kavanaugh got to pound the desk and cry without getting any of that same criticism.
I'm sure there are many factors why she lost, but sexism isn't gone, just like we've clearly seen racism isn't.
I'm of the school that thinks Hillary wasn't elected because she was a woman.
Hillary's full throated support of the misadventures of neo-con foreign policy and power grabs of Bush/Cheney/Halliburton era were/are what have largely gotten us into the current mess that we're in.
Project for the New American Century and Cheney's "unitary executive" theories are the spiritual successor's and laid the foundations for what we're seeing in the MAGA movement today.
While I think her gender had something to do with it, I think anyone who supported Bush/Cheney's (bleep) left a bad taste.
Right-wing Supreme Court takes another step toward Fascist Dictatorship. That's what they want folks. A permanent Republican dictatorship free from any constraints whatsoever. Free from voters, free from regulation, free from the law.
"When [the president] uses his official powers in any way, under the majority's reasoning, he now will be insulated from criminal prosecution. Orders the Navy's Seal Team 6 to assassinate a political rival? Immune. Organizes a military coup to hold onto power? Immune. Takes a bribe in exchange for a pardon? Immune. Immune, immune, immune. Let the President violate the law, let him exploit the trappings of his office for personal gain, let him use his official power for evil ends. Because if he knew that he may one day face liability for breaking the law, he might not be as bold and fearless as we would like him to be. That is the majority's message today. Even if these nightmare scenarios never play out, and I pray they never do, the damage has been done. The relationship between the President and the people he serves has shifted irrevocably. In every use of official power, the President is now a king above the law."
If Trump is elected, there will be no constraints on him whatsoever. He will seek revenge on everyone who is not MAGA. He would have Biden, Hillary, Obama and every host at MSNBC rounded up and jailed or assassinated without batting an eyelash. Think Putin on steroids. He wouldn't even have to pretend to have people fall out of high windows. He would be worse than any Hollywood movie villain every created. I don't want to live in a country where he is in charge. I don't even know what to say.
The only way to resurrect it is to elect Biden, control the Senate and the House, get rid of of filibuster, expand the Supreme Court and start lining up cases to reverse all the damage they have done.
We have all been saying "Democracy is on the ballot" and SCOTUS just cranked the stakes up to a billion.
I hope this is something even the "low-information" voters can understand.
Good lord. If you are a spiritual person, start praying.
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