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Halflife
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Joined: 15 Aug 2015
Posts: 17874
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 Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2024 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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| windycitycane wrote: | | Killer_Z wrote: | Most of the trade scenarios being pitched on this thread are either unrealistic, or actually make us worse.
We need to hope for a lift this season with:
1) Much better coaching
2) Team continuity
3) A full and healthy season of Vincent and Vando
Could very well be good enough to land us a top 6 spot, and entry into the playoffs once again. After which, you never know. |
This.
Coaching alone will have us +10 wins this year.
If we remain healthy, add another +5.
Were we healthy at all last year?
I think Dalton is gonna be a special player.
I think we can make a run this year.
Go Lakers! |
So 62 wins? Lotta 💔 in April. But you never know
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ChickenStu
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Joined: 25 Apr 2015
Posts: 32874
Location: Anaheim, CA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2024 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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| D'lo and Brogdon are actually quite similar in many respects. Less-than-average athleticism at the point. Good 3-point shooters, over 40%. Similar usage and assist rates. Nearly identical LEBRON ratings. Brogdon rated similar defensively last year, though historically he's been better and the Blazers' horrific team defense may have dragged his individual rating down a bit. Overall, because of the chance that Brogdon's defense would perk up on a good team, I think he's the better player with more upside; he's had two seasons in his career that rate significantly better than D'lo analytically, including in 2022-23. However, his injury history is really, really worrisome. Given that and given that D'lo is cheaper, I'd be inclined to just keep D'lo if it were a question of D'lo vs. Brogdon. |
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nomoreshaq
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Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 5281
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| Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2024 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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well, i guess if anything, we have
AD
Bron / Rui / Vando
AR / Dlo / Max
that collective would be entering in year 3 now...maybe that matters? |
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Reds622
Star Player
Joined: 22 May 2015
Posts: 1575
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| Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2024 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Big Shot Bob wrote: | This is basic economics, what’s happening here. The market has been thrown off by some outlandish trades (Gobert to Utah, Durant to PHX, Bridges to NY) and there is an enormous discrepancy between the price perception held by sellers and buyers. It will take some time to normalize, but eventually, they’ll come to an understanding of value.
Buyers don’t think they should have to trade multiple first rounders (when many of them don’t have many FRPs to trade), or would be mortgaging their future to do so… Sellers want the same type of return that they are seeing other teams get. The fact of the matter is that, in the long run, the buyers are more correct than the sellers would like them to be. There simply aren’t enough teams remaining who can (and would want to) trade 2-4 FRPs for the caliber of players that we’re talking about here: Jerami Grant, Kyle Kuzma, Cam Johnson, Dorian Finney-Smith.
Grant’s contract is bad - expirings and a first round pick should absolutely be his value. Kuzma is a role player with the ability to score - his value should be a contributing player and a FRP… same goes for Cam Johnson, but his shooting ability should probably net some additional SRPs or a swap. Finney-Smith is the type of player who should be traded for an expiring and 2-3 second round picks. Instead, all of those teams essentially want double that.
They will eventually settle. The Lakers should try to wait this out. |
I think you might be exactly right. This is a good post. |
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BILBJH
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jul 2020
Posts: 5325
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| Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2024 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Lakersfan1211 wrote: | | SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | Lakers didn’t make a minimum offer to prince? Despite his shortcomings, he was our most consistent 3 point shooter off the bench last year and at least has the size and skill of being a 3&D guy. Lakers just totally ignored him and let him slip away for minimum? |
We're full at 15/15. Dinwiddie probably won't wait and sign with Philly. |
Dinwiddie was like the tiny tire you keep under the trunk in case your car breaks down and you need to get it to a tire store.
I felt Prince was way more useful last year than Spencer. |
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Japago
Star Player
Joined: 21 Jun 2018
Posts: 1704
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| Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2024 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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| ChickenStu wrote: | | D'lo and Brogdon are actually quite similar in many respects. Less-than-average athleticism at the point. Good 3-point shooters, over 40%. Similar usage and assist rates. Nearly identical LEBRON ratings. Brogdon rated similar defensively last year, though historically he's been better and the Blazers' horrific team defense may have dragged his individual rating down a bit. Overall, because of the chance that Brogdon's defense would perk up on a good team, I think he's the better player with more upside; he's had two seasons in his career that rate significantly better than D'lo analytically, including in 2022-23. However, his injury history is really, really worrisome. Given that and given that D'lo is cheaper, I'd be inclined to just keep D'lo if it were a question of D'lo vs. Brogdon. |
When you don't have a chance to win it all as is, why not take risks? You said it yourself that Brogdon has higher upside. If it doesn't pan out, the Lakers weren't giving up on a title contender anyway.
The higher upside of Brogdon is a good risk to take as it probably won't cost the Lakers much. This risk isn't asking the Lakers to trade away first round picks or other good players beyond DLo.
Along with the tangible basketball skills Brogdon brings, he's less streaky and just seems like the more consummate professional.
He could have the same kind of effect Conley had on the Timberwolves. |
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alleyoop
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Joined: 08 Feb 2018
Posts: 4175
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| Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2024 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Reds622 wrote: | | Big Shot Bob wrote: | This is basic economics, what’s happening here. The market has been thrown off by some outlandish trades (Gobert to Utah, Durant to PHX, Bridges to NY) and there is an enormous discrepancy between the price perception held by sellers and buyers. It will take some time to normalize, but eventually, they’ll come to an understanding of value.
Buyers don’t think they should have to trade multiple first rounders (when many of them don’t have many FRPs to trade), or would be mortgaging their future to do so… Sellers want the same type of return that they are seeing other teams get. The fact of the matter is that, in the long run, the buyers are more correct than the sellers would like them to be. There simply aren’t enough teams remaining who can (and would want to) trade 2-4 FRPs for the caliber of players that we’re talking about here: Jerami Grant, Kyle Kuzma, Cam Johnson, Dorian Finney-Smith.
Grant’s contract is bad - expirings and a first round pick should absolutely be his value. Kuzma is a role player with the ability to score - his value should be a contributing player and a FRP… same goes for Cam Johnson, but his shooting ability should probably net some additional SRPs or a swap. Finney-Smith is the type of player who should be traded for an expiring and 2-3 second round picks. Instead, all of those teams essentially want double that.
They will eventually settle. The Lakers should try to wait this out. |
I think you might be exactly right. This is a good post. |
We still need to get under the 2nd apron by the 6th in order to be able to wait it out though
Whether that’s dumping Reddish with a 2nd or whatever
Also need to take into account that more and more FAs will go off the board if we continue to wait, making it harder to fill gaps in our depth
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alleyoop
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Joined: 08 Feb 2018
Posts: 4175
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| Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2024 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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If we can’t find a trade by the 6th, I’d personally dump Vincent (and Reddish if can), then sign BBall Paul to the TPMLE once he’s waived, and Dinwiddie (or even Fultz?) to a min deal
At least then we’ll know we have an upgrade at backup C as well as a just as (hopefully) competent back up point guard. Can then focus on getting that defensive upgrade via trade, without needing to rush into it
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J.C. Smith
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 12727
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| Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2024 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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| BILBJH wrote: | | I felt Prince was way more useful last year than Spencer. |
I'd agree with that, and it's sad seeing him go. He was worth his contract, just given too large of a role.
I don't think last year's Dinwiddie is a good indication of what he might be with a good coach. He's certainly worth the risk on a cheap contract. He wants to play here.
Yeah he was bad last year. The year before he averaged 17.3 points and 6.5 assists whith slightly above average three point shooting. He's averaged as high as 20.6 points and 6.8 assists. Let's see if he can return to form with a new coach. Ham put him in a role that he was never going to excel at. He's a good distributor, he's been in the top 15 in assists three times. Ham used him as a spot up shooter. I'm hoping Reddick can find a role that suits him as a primary or secondary ball handler. |
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BILBJH
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Joined: 23 Jul 2020
Posts: 5325
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| Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2024 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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| J.C. Smith wrote: | | BILBJH wrote: | | I felt Prince was way more useful last year than Spencer. |
I'd agree with that, and it's sad seeing him go. He was worth his contract, just given too large of a role.
I don't think last year's Dinwiddie is a good indication of what he might be with a good coach. He's certainly worth the risk on a cheap contract. He wants to play here.
Yeah he was bad last year. The year before he averaged 17.3 points and 6.5 assists whith slightly above average three point shooting. He's averaged as high as 20.6 points and 6.8 assists. Let's see if he can return to form with a new coach. Ham put him in a role that he was never going to excel at. He's a good distributor, he's been in the top 15 in assists three times. Ham used him as a spot up shooter. I'm hoping Reddick can find a role that suits him as a primary or secondary ball handler. |
I get that he's a good guy and good value, but Ham traumatized me by never using Max and over relying on Spence.
I'd rather develop Knecht or Max than give up the minutes to Dinwiddie.
Now, if JJ can develop the young players and only use Spence in cases of injury, then that makes sense to me. |
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Big Shot Bob
Starting Rotation
Joined: 07 Apr 2015
Posts: 684
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| Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2024 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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| alleyoop wrote: | | Reds622 wrote: | | Big Shot Bob wrote: | This is basic economics, what’s happening here. The market has been thrown off by some outlandish trades (Gobert to Utah, Durant to PHX, Bridges to NY) and there is an enormous discrepancy between the price perception held by sellers and buyers. It will take some time to normalize, but eventually, they’ll come to an understanding of value.
Buyers don’t think they should have to trade multiple first rounders (when many of them don’t have many FRPs to trade), or would be mortgaging their future to do so… Sellers want the same type of return that they are seeing other teams get. The fact of the matter is that, in the long run, the buyers are more correct than the sellers would like them to be. There simply aren’t enough teams remaining who can (and would want to) trade 2-4 FRPs for the caliber of players that we’re talking about here: Jerami Grant, Kyle Kuzma, Cam Johnson, Dorian Finney-Smith.
Grant’s contract is bad - expirings and a first round pick should absolutely be his value. Kuzma is a role player with the ability to score - his value should be a contributing player and a FRP… same goes for Cam Johnson, but his shooting ability should probably net some additional SRPs or a swap. Finney-Smith is the type of player who should be traded for an expiring and 2-3 second round picks. Instead, all of those teams essentially want double that.
They will eventually settle. The Lakers should try to wait this out. |
I think you might be exactly right. This is a good post. |
We still need to get under the 2nd apron by the 6th in order to be able to wait it out though
Whether that’s dumping Reddish with a 2nd or whatever
Also need to take into account that more and more FAs will go off the board if we continue to wait, making it harder to fill gaps in our depth |
That’s not true, though. I was telling someone this earlier today - Max Christie’s cap hold is considerably less than his new contract value. LeBron literally has to be signed on the 6th, yes. He wants to be signed before he plays with Team USA, in case he gets injured. But it’s his contract AND Christie’s that takes the Lakers over the second apron.
Christie doesn’t have that kind of leverage. The Lakers are arguably overpaying him and he is a restricted FA. All the Lakers need to do is delay his signing and they will remain a below-second apron team, and can continue to aggregate players in trades to shed team salary. Once they have done what they need to do, they can sign Christie. This type of thing is a common practice in the NBA, although the aprons are new. I wouldn’t be surprised if Max wasn’t signed until early Aug, if that’s as long as it takes. |
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alleyoop
Star Player
Joined: 08 Feb 2018
Posts: 4175
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| Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2024 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Big Shot Bob wrote: | | alleyoop wrote: | | Reds622 wrote: | | Big Shot Bob wrote: | This is basic economics, what’s happening here. The market has been thrown off by some outlandish trades (Gobert to Utah, Durant to PHX, Bridges to NY) and there is an enormous discrepancy between the price perception held by sellers and buyers. It will take some time to normalize, but eventually, they’ll come to an understanding of value.
Buyers don’t think they should have to trade multiple first rounders (when many of them don’t have many FRPs to trade), or would be mortgaging their future to do so… Sellers want the same type of return that they are seeing other teams get. The fact of the matter is that, in the long run, the buyers are more correct than the sellers would like them to be. There simply aren’t enough teams remaining who can (and would want to) trade 2-4 FRPs for the caliber of players that we’re talking about here: Jerami Grant, Kyle Kuzma, Cam Johnson, Dorian Finney-Smith.
Grant’s contract is bad - expirings and a first round pick should absolutely be his value. Kuzma is a role player with the ability to score - his value should be a contributing player and a FRP… same goes for Cam Johnson, but his shooting ability should probably net some additional SRPs or a swap. Finney-Smith is the type of player who should be traded for an expiring and 2-3 second round picks. Instead, all of those teams essentially want double that.
They will eventually settle. The Lakers should try to wait this out. |
I think you might be exactly right. This is a good post. |
We still need to get under the 2nd apron by the 6th in order to be able to wait it out though
Whether that’s dumping Reddish with a 2nd or whatever
Also need to take into account that more and more FAs will go off the board if we continue to wait, making it harder to fill gaps in our depth |
That’s not true, though. I was telling someone this earlier today - Max Christie’s cap hold is considerably less than his new contract value. LeBron literally has to be signed on the 6th, yes. He wants to be signed before he plays with Team USA, in case he gets injured. But it’s his contract AND Christie’s that takes the Lakers over the second apron.
Christie doesn’t have that kind of leverage. The Lakers are arguably overpaying him and he is a restricted FA. All the Lakers need to do is delay his signing and they will remain a below-second apron team, and can continue to aggregate players in trades to shed team salary. Once they have done what they need to do, they can sign Christie. This type of thing is a common practice in the NBA, although the aprons are new. I wouldn’t be surprised if Max wasn’t signed until early Aug, if that’s as long as it takes. |
Ahh gotcha, I kinda assumed that Christie would also be signed on the 6th as well, but maybe not
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ChickenStu
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Joined: 25 Apr 2015
Posts: 32874
Location: Anaheim, CA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2024 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Japago wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | | D'lo and Brogdon are actually quite similar in many respects. Less-than-average athleticism at the point. Good 3-point shooters, over 40%. Similar usage and assist rates. Nearly identical LEBRON ratings. Brogdon rated similar defensively last year, though historically he's been better and the Blazers' horrific team defense may have dragged his individual rating down a bit. Overall, because of the chance that Brogdon's defense would perk up on a good team, I think he's the better player with more upside; he's had two seasons in his career that rate significantly better than D'lo analytically, including in 2022-23. However, his injury history is really, really worrisome. Given that and given that D'lo is cheaper, I'd be inclined to just keep D'lo if it were a question of D'lo vs. Brogdon. |
When you don't have a chance to win it all as is, why not take risks? You said it yourself that Brogdon has higher upside. If it doesn't pan out, the Lakers weren't giving up on a title contender anyway.
The higher upside of Brogdon is a good risk to take as it probably won't cost the Lakers much. This risk isn't asking the Lakers to trade away first round picks or other good players beyond DLo.
Along with the tangible basketball skills Brogdon brings, he's less streaky and just seems like the more consummate professional.
He could have the same kind of effect Conley had on the Timberwolves. |
I don't think your take is unreasonable. My issue, I suppose, is that he costs more, but maybe if you could dump enough unwanted salary along with him, it could be worth it, particularly if you open up not just 1 but perhaps 2 roster spots. But I wouldn't give up a FRP in any deal involving Brogdon. He's just not enough of a clear and obvious upgrade to D'lo, both are on expiring contracts, and Brogdon is the one with more of an injury history.
It's also possible that using Dlo's salary in a different trade that involve the FRP's can net us something much better. But in a vacuum, if we could make, say, a 3-for-1 trade without sacrificing a FRP where we shed a little bit of salary and open up 2 roster spots, it might be worth it. |
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MJST
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| Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2024 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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| BILBJH wrote: | | Lakersfan1211 wrote: | | SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | Lakers didn’t make a minimum offer to prince? Despite his shortcomings, he was our most consistent 3 point shooter off the bench last year and at least has the size and skill of being a 3&D guy. Lakers just totally ignored him and let him slip away for minimum? |
We're full at 15/15. Dinwiddie probably won't wait and sign with Philly. |
Dinwiddie was like the tiny tire you keep under the trunk in case your car breaks down and you need to get it to a tire store.
I felt Prince was way more useful last year than Spencer. |
That's because our coach saw Taurean Prince as an offensive star, and saw Dinwiddie as just a defender that didn't need to use his offense outside of standing off ball and waiting -_-
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MJST
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| Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2024 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Japago wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | | D'lo and Brogdon are actually quite similar in many respects. Less-than-average athleticism at the point. Good 3-point shooters, over 40%. Similar usage and assist rates. Nearly identical LEBRON ratings. Brogdon rated similar defensively last year, though historically he's been better and the Blazers' horrific team defense may have dragged his individual rating down a bit. Overall, because of the chance that Brogdon's defense would perk up on a good team, I think he's the better player with more upside; he's had two seasons in his career that rate significantly better than D'lo analytically, including in 2022-23. However, his injury history is really, really worrisome. Given that and given that D'lo is cheaper, I'd be inclined to just keep D'lo if it were a question of D'lo vs. Brogdon. |
When you don't have a chance to win it all as is, why not take risks? You said it yourself that Brogdon has higher upside. If it doesn't pan out, the Lakers weren't giving up on a title contender anyway.
The higher upside of Brogdon is a good risk to take as it probably won't cost the Lakers much. |
"Higher upside"?? Do ya'll know that Brogdon is about to be 32 and DLO is still 28?
And that Brogdon has had injury woes his entire career.
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How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
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Last edited by MJST on Thu Jul 04, 2024 12:17 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Japago
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Joined: 21 Jun 2018
Posts: 1704
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| Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2024 11:48 pm Post subject: |
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| ChickenStu wrote: | | Japago wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | | D'lo and Brogdon are actually quite similar in many respects. Less-than-average athleticism at the point. Good 3-point shooters, over 40%. Similar usage and assist rates. Nearly identical LEBRON ratings. Brogdon rated similar defensively last year, though historically he's been better and the Blazers' horrific team defense may have dragged his individual rating down a bit. Overall, because of the chance that Brogdon's defense would perk up on a good team, I think he's the better player with more upside; he's had two seasons in his career that rate significantly better than D'lo analytically, including in 2022-23. However, his injury history is really, really worrisome. Given that and given that D'lo is cheaper, I'd be inclined to just keep D'lo if it were a question of D'lo vs. Brogdon. |
When you don't have a chance to win it all as is, why not take risks? You said it yourself that Brogdon has higher upside. If it doesn't pan out, the Lakers weren't giving up on a title contender anyway.
The higher upside of Brogdon is a good risk to take as it probably won't cost the Lakers much. This risk isn't asking the Lakers to trade away first round picks or other good players beyond DLo.
Along with the tangible basketball skills Brogdon brings, he's less streaky and just seems like the more consummate professional.
He could have the same kind of effect Conley had on the Timberwolves. |
I don't think your take is unreasonable. My issue, I suppose, is that he costs more, but maybe if you could dump enough unwanted salary along with him, it could be worth it, particularly if you open up not just 1 but perhaps 2 roster spots. But I wouldn't give up a FRP in any deal involving Brogdon. He's just not enough of a clear and obvious upgrade to D'lo, both are on expiring contracts, and Brogdon is the one with more of an injury history.
It's also possible that using Dlo's salary in a different trade that involve the FRP's can net us something much better. But in a vacuum, if we could make, say, a 3-for-1 trade without sacrificing a FRP where we shed a little bit of salary and open up 2 roster spots, it might be worth it. |
It would be insane if they would ask for a FRP when the exchange is mainly big expiring for big expiring. The Lakers wouldn't be asking them to take extra salary. The overall talent level isn't vastly different either.
DLo + JHS or DLo + Cam and a 2nd feels like it should be enough.
They're rebuilding from scratch and DLo is younger than Brogdon. Could be another vet they build up and eventually trade. |
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ChickenStu
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Joined: 25 Apr 2015
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Location: Anaheim, CA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2024 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | Japago wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | | D'lo and Brogdon are actually quite similar in many respects. Less-than-average athleticism at the point. Good 3-point shooters, over 40%. Similar usage and assist rates. Nearly identical LEBRON ratings. Brogdon rated similar defensively last year, though historically he's been better and the Blazers' horrific team defense may have dragged his individual rating down a bit. Overall, because of the chance that Brogdon's defense would perk up on a good team, I think he's the better player with more upside; he's had two seasons in his career that rate significantly better than D'lo analytically, including in 2022-23. However, his injury history is really, really worrisome. Given that and given that D'lo is cheaper, I'd be inclined to just keep D'lo if it were a question of D'lo vs. Brogdon. |
When you don't have a chance to win it all as is, why not take risks? You said it yourself that Brogdon has higher upside. If it doesn't pan out, the Lakers weren't giving up on a title contender anyway.
The higher upside of Brogdon is a good risk to take as it probably won't cost the Lakers much. |
"Higher upside"?? Do ya'll know that Brogdon is about to be 32 and DLO is still 28? |
No he does, that's correct. D'lo has been pretty consistently around the same ballpark in his career in terms of analytical impact. And in all but 2 of his seasons, Brogdon is roughly in the same ballpark. However, in 2 of Brogdon's seasons, he was WAYYYYYY higher, and one of those seasons was just in '22-23, the season before last. He has shown that he can be a legitimate defender in the past, and D'lo is never going to do that. Brogdon has a chance at two-way success, and as I mentioned before, he's also a very good 3-point shooter, though not on as much volume.
The risks are obvious. The injury history should give anyone pause. But we're talking about expiring contracts, so I think that mitigates the age factor a bit. It's about the injury history, not the age. Personally, I'd be hoping to use D'lo's salary as part of a different trade. But I think his argument is fair, which is that if there's no other trade to be made, and if we can perhaps open up a roster spot or 2 and go with the player who might be a two-way option in the playoffs, you just roll the dice and hope he is available come playoff time.
Oh, and to address your post directly above, Japago, I believe we would want them to take back just a little bit more salary, so that we ensure getting under the 2nd apron. Sure, LeBron could take that slight haircut, but if we're making a trade, my guess is that we're almost certainly going to want to send out a little more salary. And actually, sending out JHS does save us a scant $72K, if you can believe that, although that's not enough to get us under the 2nd apron by itself. Sending out a minimum contract along with D'lo like Reddish would have us increasing the salary intake by $1.3MM. This is why I could see us attempt to trade both JHS and a minimum like Cam to both save a little more money ($2.5MM) and to open up 2 roster spots, and then perhaps you give them an extra SRP or two for doing so. Fanspo has this as a -2 win trade for us, though, likely because it's accounting for the amount of games missed for Brogdon, even though both have a nearly identical LEBRON rating. |
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2024 12:05 am Post subject: |
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I am still in favor of the Sexton/Kessler option while giving up both FRP. Sexton is relatively cheap for the next 2 years and offers more athleticism than D'lo, good shooting, and better defense. And you get a strong defensive center who can actually protect the rim in the non-AD minutes, and you'd control him for 6 years when accounting for RFA-matching rights after the '25-26 season. I don't think I can emphasize enough how much we were giving away to other teams in the non-AD minutes a season ago against certain teams with capable bigs AND capable guards/wings who could get into the paint. (Now that I think of it, that pretty much describes any team.) Think of how many times the bench units quickly blew leads (with Mr. Pockets refusing to call timeouts until most or all of a lead were gone), largely because it was just too easy for the opposing offense to manipulate our defense. You get younger, more athletic, and address one glaring need (a defensive center) while improving the PG play as well. D'lo is fine, but Sexton is much less likely to get played off the court come playoff time.
You can actually grow with these players and they have a combined 8 years of team control left. That's worth giving up 2 FRP for, in my opinion. And there's still the option of trading Sexton after next season if we feel like we need to rebuild. Or, if he looks great, perhaps extending him. |
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MJST
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| Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2024 12:19 am Post subject: |
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| ChickenStu wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | Japago wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | | D'lo and Brogdon are actually quite similar in many respects. Less-than-average athleticism at the point. Good 3-point shooters, over 40%. Similar usage and assist rates. Nearly identical LEBRON ratings. Brogdon rated similar defensively last year, though historically he's been better and the Blazers' horrific team defense may have dragged his individual rating down a bit. Overall, because of the chance that Brogdon's defense would perk up on a good team, I think he's the better player with more upside; he's had two seasons in his career that rate significantly better than D'lo analytically, including in 2022-23. However, his injury history is really, really worrisome. Given that and given that D'lo is cheaper, I'd be inclined to just keep D'lo if it were a question of D'lo vs. Brogdon. |
When you don't have a chance to win it all as is, why not take risks? You said it yourself that Brogdon has higher upside. If it doesn't pan out, the Lakers weren't giving up on a title contender anyway.
The higher upside of Brogdon is a good risk to take as it probably won't cost the Lakers much. |
"Higher upside"?? Do ya'll know that Brogdon is about to be 32 and DLO is still 28? |
No he does, that's correct. D'lo has been pretty consistently around the same ballpark in his career in terms of analytical impact. And in all but 2 of his seasons, Brogdon is roughly in the same ballpark. However, in 2 of Brogdon's seasons, he was WAYYYYYY higher, and one of those seasons was just in '22-23, the season before last. He has shown that he can be a legitimate defender in the past, and D'lo is never going to do that. Brogdon has a chance at two-way success, and as I mentioned before, he's also a very good 3-point shooter, though not on as much volume.
The risks are obvious. The injury history should give anyone pause. But we're talking about expiring contracts, so I think that mitigates the age factor a bit. It's about the injury history, not the age. Personally, I'd be hoping to use D'lo's salary as part of a different trade. But I think his argument is fair, which is that if there's no other trade to be made, and if we can perhaps open up a roster spot or 2 and go with the player who might be a two-way option in the playoffs, you just roll the dice and hope he is available come playoff time.
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The injury history + the fact that Brogdon is OUT of that prime and continuing to struggle to stay healthy. I'd argue that as it currently stands Austin Reaves is more or just as valuable as current Malcolm Brogdon and costs far less and stays healthier. Brogdon's best seasons and "prime" in the NBA, where he played a total of 56 and 36 games in those seasons. Those are even bigger red flags. He's also two additional injury prone seasons beyond that time as well.
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governator
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Posts: 25675
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| Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2024 2:37 am Post subject: |
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Still nothing? I’m expecting fireworks today
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“The main goal for the Lakers is to win a championship. All I care about, all we care about, is to raise another banner in the rafters.“ |
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Dilla_
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Posts: 1280
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| Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2024 2:48 am Post subject: |
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| Kblo247! wrote: | | Dilla_ wrote: | The Lakers only have two 1st round picks they can trade and using them on the likes of Grant, Kuzma or Cam Johnson isn't worth it IMO, they're not going to drastically improve the Lakers chances for the upcoming season.
I'm all for the Lakers giving up a couple of 2nd round picks or JHS alongside Reddish to improve on Hayes/Wood, e.g. Nick Richards from the Hornets.
Hopefully with Vando and Gabe being back healthy, Reaves having the summer off (last summer he played for team USA), Max takes a jump going into next season, Knecht being NBA ready straight away, AD/LeBron don't overplay at the Olympics and a new coaching staff will all make the Lakers a better team for the upcoming season.
Dlo/Gabe
Reaves/Max
Rui/Knecht
LeBron/Vando
AD/Richards (someone better than Hayes/Wood) |
Kuzma could be worth it if they had the sense to start him to Bron and AD. Vogel didn’t ever start the man next to them. |
I don't think trading a 1st for Kuzma is going to improve the Lakers that much, if it was for JHS plus salary filler and a couple of 2nds then I would be fine with it.
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Coach MWP. |
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King Randle
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| Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2024 3:21 am Post subject: |
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| ChickenStu wrote: | I am still in favor of the Sexton/Kessler option while giving up both FRP. Sexton is relatively cheap for the next 2 years and offers more athleticism than D'lo, good shooting, and better defense. And you get a strong defensive center who can actually protect the rim in the non-AD minutes, and you'd control him for 6 years when accounting for RFA-matching rights after the '25-26 season. I don't think I can emphasize enough how much we were giving away to other teams in the non-AD minutes a season ago against certain teams with capable bigs AND capable guards/wings who could get into the paint. (Now that I think of it, that pretty much describes any team.) Think of how many times the bench units quickly blew leads (with Mr. Pockets refusing to call timeouts until most or all of a lead were gone), largely because it was just too easy for the opposing offense to manipulate our defense. You get younger, more athletic, and address one glaring need (a defensive center) while improving the PG play as well. D'lo is fine, but Sexton is much less likely to get played off the court come playoff time.
You can actually grow with these players and they have a combined 8 years of team control left. That's worth giving up 2 FRP for, in my opinion. And there's still the option of trading Sexton after next season if we feel like we need to rebuild. Or, if he looks great, perhaps extending him. |
I like this deal best too. I just need to know why the Jazz would give up on 2 young players for what we have to offer besides the 2 FRP's. I know they're valuable but Kessler and Sexton are young and they're also trying to move Laurie. Complete rebuild? |
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RI Laker
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Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 7424
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| Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2024 3:39 am Post subject: |
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| We can only hope that LJ asks to be traded during the season. |
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governator
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Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2024 3:50 am Post subject: |
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Just bored, If Ainge says yes to AR/JHS/Wood or Rui and 3 unprotected firsts plus pick swap plus removing the protection on ‘27 first, would y’all take LaVine and gut the team to get that 3rd pick to send? I think DLo, Gabe, Vando and Rui or AR/JHS/Wood? Our wing would be Bron and Cam/Knecth until we fill the roster, should be 3-4 open roster spots
Lavine-MaxC-Bron-Lauri-AD and fill in the blanks depth but no more picks to trade
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“The main goal for the Lakers is to win a championship. All I care about, all we care about, is to raise another banner in the rafters.“ |
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RI Laker
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| Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2024 3:58 am Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | Just bored, If Ainge says yes to AR/JHS/Wood or Rui and 3 unprotected firsts plus pick swap plus removing the protection on ‘27 first, would y’all take LaVine and gut the team to get that 3rd pick to send? I think DLo, Gabe, Vando and Rui or AR/JHS/Wood? Our wing would be Bron and Cam/Knecth until we fill the roster, should be 3-4 open roster spots
Lavine-MaxC-Bron-Lauri-AD and fill in the blanks depth but no more picks to trade |
I will play. I am not a cap expert, but would we be able to resign Lauri? I am thinking we may be handicapped in resigning him. |
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