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TheBlackMamba
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Joined: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 9183
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 Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2024 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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| SGV-Laker fan wrote: | Drafting Bronny has done more damage in lakers’ free agent pursuit than people realize. Lakers is now lebron family run business, all fairness and competitiveness can be thrown out of the window. A roster spot will be given to Bronny regardless of how he performs in preseason and in practice. Why would they come to this circus?
Don’t tell me about Bronny basketball skills. Even his talent warrants the 55th pick, Lakers should known better not to draft him any way. Just like you never hire your relative in your business, same concept. |
Let me tell you a story about the Antetokounmpos... |
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levon
Franchise Player
Joined: 11 Oct 2016
Posts: 11238
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| Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2024 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Lakersfan1211 wrote: | | Quote: | | Kings have talked to Bulls about DeRozan sign and trade, per source. Spurs also now another possibility. Despite DeRozan interest in Miami, Heat not in position to give him what he's seeking at this time... Heat will hope opportunity on some player it wants arises this summer. |
https://x.com/flasportsbuzz/status/1808689071746920466 |
That last sentence... they pay this guy to write? |
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A Mad Chinaman
Star Player
Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Posts: 6265
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| Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2024 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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| mhan00 wrote: | | miggz23 wrote: | Which panic trade moves do you guys want?...
A. Rui/Vando/2 1st for Grant
B. DLO/Cam/2 2nds for Derozan
C. Rui/Gabe/2 1st for Kuzma
D. Minimal vet min deals
E. Stand pat |
D or E if those are the available trades. Grant is massively over paid. Arguably Portland should be the ones to give up a pick, forget about sending to their way. I love Kuz, but he’s a role player on a good team and a scorer on a bad one. He’s not that much better than Rui, let alone two first thrown in too. B is the most intriguing, but I’d pass on that too since Derozan’s playoff rep is as bad or worse than Dlo’s (people have somehow forgotten this with DDR winning the Bulls games during the regular season), and Dlo has a skill set that fits better for the team. |
As Rob have mentioned several times, the current CBA are forcing teams to build organically while trading for "Super Teams/3 Stars" is a very difficult route to win championships (translation: more than 1)
As mentioned with on the Lakers Network, if Rob doesn't see any good deals and/or value that would definitively "Move the Needle" - see Klay, etc. where there are numerous articles that shows where Klay's effectiveness on defense has gone down and his offensive effectiveness are getting more limited (has to shoot farther out, missing quickness for blow by, etc.) - he should wait for a great deal.
What's the large differences between Spenser Dinwiddle and Demar DeRozan (including contract size)?
With the Nuggets (w/the loss of KCP being a large loss), Dubs (w/o Klay), Suns (how is the KD, Booker, Beal trio working) and Clips (they are a mess showing no loyalty to their past/present superstars and losing PG) doing,
Cs' window is one year/next year because after that - all the contract extensions will take over and they will be over the CAP with 4-5 players hence losing their experienced depth.
People forget that not long ago, many were wondering how Brown and Tatum could play together. Tatum has the larger contract, Brown has the most impact in games. KP will be healthy after the ASG - will they have home court throughout the upcoming playoff season, especially since they will be the hunted.
Luka/Kyrie/Klay (will they play enough defense during the playoffs)
KD/Booker/Beal (will they play any defense)
Tatum/Brown/Holiday or KP
Embiid/PG/Maxey (will they stay healthy)
AntMan/Towns/Gobert (KAT show up during the playoffs - consistently)
Greek Freak/Dame/Middleton (can Doc get them in-sync?)
Brunson/OG/Randle + "V" former teammates (will Coach Tibbs grind them to the ground??)
Except for the Cs, all the others were derailed by injuries
Given all the trade/FA news, OKC was the West's Top Seed and acquired Caruso and Harkenstein. How lethal will Wemby with CP3 giving him lob passes!
Note: Present Cs' ownership is selling its majority stake because of the upcoming EXREMPT luxury tax that will be due in one year!!
Lakers shouldn't trade "Just to Trade"
Lakers w/Klay be among the top title-contending teams in the West - nope
Laker IFS
Vando stays healthy
Christie develops into a legitimate 3&D player
CWood finds his 3pt shot
AR continues his development
DLo will be more effective (because of JJ's new offensive schemes)
Vincent stays healthy
Hayes puts on some weight and adds to "His Package"
Dinwiddle resigns to have a lethal backcourt rotation w/AR,DLo,Vincent
Rui develops a "Mean Streak" (w/"encouragement from AD&LBJ to kick ass and not disappear
~ All of the above is very doable. |
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pjiddy
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Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Posts: 29626
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| Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2024 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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| TheBlackMamba wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | | governator wrote: | | Lakersfan1211 wrote: | | Quote: | Warriors lost Klay Thompson and added:
— De’Anthony Melton
— Kyle Anderson
— Buddy Hield
They’re better.
Clippers lost Paul George and added:
— Derrick Jones. Jr.
— Kevin Porter Jr.
— Kris Dunn
— Nicholas Batum
— Mo Bamba
They might be the same.
LAKERS HAVE DONE NOTHING. |
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DJJ and Kyle Anderson are nice pieces but all those names are pretty equivalent to C.Wood, Hayes, Max and Cam. |
DJJ and Kyle Anderson were rotation players for teams that made the Western Conference Finals.
Wood/Hayes/Max/Cam didn't play for a team that basically got swept Round 1. |
This is why I think people are sleeping on Cam Johnson, saying he's not worth a first - he fits the bill of 1) the two-way swingman we desperately need, and 2) a guy who's actually been a starter/major rotation player on a Finals team/contender. He's in his prime and likely has a movable deal on top of that, should we ever need to put together a bigger package down the line for someone. There's some injury concerns there, but no addition is going to be perfect or without risk, and he's as close as there is IMO.
If the Nets wanna tank now that they have their own pick back, offer Rui/Vincent/pick for Cam (maybe try to get Sharpe added). |
The lakers aren’t trading any firsts for role players. They officially have to assume Lebron could be gone in the next year or two. They need a new superstar to replace him that will tell them what to do/be their scapegoat. AD is not that guy.
They got Lebron under contract. As far as Rob/Jeanie are concerned, there’s nothing left to do. |
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TheBlackMamba
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Joined: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 9183
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| Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2024 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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I get what you’re saying, but the team is out of touch with the market then. Mikal Bridges is a role player and just went for a boatload of firsts. We don’t even have enough for Lauri, let alone an actual star player. So any holdback of what we do have isn’t going to lead to their inclusion in a bigger deal later on. If any star asked out tomorrow, we’re no where close to the list of teams with sufficient assets to be in the race.
The value scale has changed for future draft picks, and a single pick isn’t really much to give up nowadays for a rotation player. You also have to factor in that a guy like Cam could probably be flipped to get the draft capital back later on, given his value to other contenders, if things were to fall apart here for whatever reason. Just a lot of short-sightedness to hang onto the picks by the FO IMO, whether or not they think Lebron is gone in a year, two years, or whenever. |
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Halflife
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Joined: 15 Aug 2015
Posts: 17874
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| Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2024 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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| TheBlackMamba wrote: | I get what you’re saying, but the team is out of touch with the market then. Mikal Bridges is a role player and just went for a boatload of firsts. We don’t even have enough for Lauri, let alone an actual star player. So any holdback of what we do have isn’t going to lead to their inclusion in a bigger deal later on. If any star asked out tomorrow, we’re no where close to the list of teams with sufficient assets to be in the race.
The value scale has changed for future draft picks, and a single pick isn’t really much to give up nowadays for a rotation player. You also have to factor in that a guy like Cam could probably be flipped to get the draft capital back later on, given his value to other contenders, if things were to fall apart here for whatever reason. Just a lot of short-sightedness to hang onto the picks by the FO IMO, whether or not they think Lebron is gone in a year, two years, or whenever. |
Nyk are in different position. Their star is young and is an alpha and are right there. You put your chips in the middle. They will never be closer. We are playin fodder with zero high quality youth. We need draft picks
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alleyoop
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Posts: 4175
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| Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2024 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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Look I’m not a Kuzma fan, but if you can get him and Brogdon it’s a win. That said, I’m not sure Brogdon’s salary can be aggregated?
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mad55557777
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Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 23819
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| Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2024 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| alleyoop wrote: | | Look I’m not a Kuzma fan, but if you can get him and Brogdon it’s a win. That said, I’m not sure Brogdon’s salary can be aggregated? |
Ok, let’s say Rui+DLo +1stfor brogdon+ Kuz, does that even make us better? I am going to say no |
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nomoreshaq
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Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 5281
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| Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2024 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Kblo247! wrote: | | nomoreshaq wrote: | 8 Man Playoff rotation looking pretty wtf lol.
AD / (Hayes or Wood)
Bron / Vando / Rui
Dlo / AR / Christie
lol, seriously.
Vincent or Knecht would be the 9th/10th players.
No 3&D wings, No centers weighing more than 200 lbs and your two best guards are unathletic.
That's a 42 win team. |
That team just won 47 games without Vando and Gabe. They just won 47 games without actually starting the 5 of Dlo AR Bron Rui AD alll year … they won 26 out if 39 games with that starting group which is a 66% win percentage without Gabe and Vando
But 42! |
that team likely has 20+ games missed by both AD and LBJ each. let's be real. |
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alleyoop
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Joined: 08 Feb 2018
Posts: 4175
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| Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2024 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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| mad55557777 wrote: | | alleyoop wrote: | | Look I’m not a Kuzma fan, but if you can get him and Brogdon it’s a win. That said, I’m not sure Brogdon’s salary can be aggregated? |
Ok, let’s say Rui+DLo +1stfor brogdon+ Kuz, does that even make us better? I am going to say no |
Brogdon’s defense in the starting lineup alone is a huge help, fit-wise. The only question is his health, so you’d want to have good guard depth
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1995Lakers
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Joined: 26 Aug 2020
Posts: 4775
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| Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2024 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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| alleyoop wrote: | | mad55557777 wrote: | | alleyoop wrote: | | Look I’m not a Kuzma fan, but if you can get him and Brogdon it’s a win. That said, I’m not sure Brogdon’s salary can be aggregated? |
Ok, let’s say Rui+DLo +1stfor brogdon+ Kuz, does that even make us better? I am going to say no |
Brogdon’s defense in the starting lineup alone is a huge help, fit-wise. The only question is his health, so you’d want to have good guard depth |
Christ no.....this is a downgrade....not only in talent but Kuzma is another choker who cant perform in the playoffs or have you guys advocating for Kuzma have forgotten?????? Brogdon isnt that much better in big games either. |
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Knecht4
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Joined: 23 Jun 2015
Posts: 8769
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| Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2024 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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| alleyoop wrote: | | mad55557777 wrote: | | alleyoop wrote: | | Look I’m not a Kuzma fan, but if you can get him and Brogdon it’s a win. That said, I’m not sure Brogdon’s salary can be aggregated? |
Ok, let’s say Rui+DLo +1stfor brogdon+ Kuz, does that even make us better? I am going to say no |
Brogdon’s defense in the starting lineup alone is a huge help, fit-wise. The only question is his health, so you’d want to have good guard depth |
I would do a DLO, Cam, JHS, and a 2nd for Brogdon. That deal isn't worth a 1st when the players trade is about even. Brogdon is hurt a lot.
2nd is for them helping us create 2 roster spots and taking Cam. I don't want Kuz over Rui
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pjiddy
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Posts: 29626
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| Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2024 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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| TheBlackMamba wrote: | I get what you’re saying, but the team is out of touch with the market then. Mikal Bridges is a role player and just went for a boatload of firsts. We don’t even have enough for Lauri, let alone an actual star player. So any holdback of what we do have isn’t going to lead to their inclusion in a bigger deal later on. If any star asked out tomorrow, we’re no where close to the list of teams with sufficient assets to be in the race.
The value scale has changed for future draft picks, and a single pick isn’t really much to give up nowadays for a rotation player. You also have to factor in that a guy like Cam could probably be flipped to get the draft capital back later on, given his value to other contenders, if things were to fall apart here for whatever reason. Just a lot of short-sightedness to hang onto the picks by the FO IMO, whether or not they think Lebron is gone in a year, two years, or whenever. |
They're quietly doing what they did at the end of the Kobe era. Stockpile as many young guys as they can and hope they can show out their value. Try to get to a point where they have more future trade to send out again. They're probably hoping for a repeat of the AD situation where they can get Giannis to force himself here before the final year of his deal for like 4 future firsts + Knecht + JHS + whatever. Or maybe they can squeeze one more year out of Lebron and get Giannis to opt out. He's the perfect post-Lebron guy. An aging star that isn't afraid to throw his weight around the FO and demand coach hirings or sign off on every acquisition. GMiannis. 5 more years at least of Jeanie and Rob escaping any accountability.
Last edited by pjiddy on Wed Jul 03, 2024 8:14 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Killer_Z
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Joined: 25 Apr 2011
Posts: 5061
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| Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2024 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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Most of the trade scenarios being pitched on this thread are either unrealistic, or actually make us worse.
We need to hope for a lift this season with:
1) Much better coaching
2) Team continuity
3) A full and healthy season of Vincent and Vando
Could very well be good enough to land us a top 6 spot, and entry into the playoffs once again. After which, you never know. |
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alleyoop
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Joined: 08 Feb 2018
Posts: 4175
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| Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2024 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Knecht4 wrote: | | alleyoop wrote: | | mad55557777 wrote: | | alleyoop wrote: | | Look I’m not a Kuzma fan, but if you can get him and Brogdon it’s a win. That said, I’m not sure Brogdon’s salary can be aggregated? |
Ok, let’s say Rui+DLo +1stfor brogdon+ Kuz, does that even make us better? I am going to say no |
Brogdon’s defense in the starting lineup alone is a huge help, fit-wise. The only question is his health, so you’d want to have good guard depth |
I would do a DLO, Cam, JHS, and a 2nd for Brogdon. That deal isn't worth a 1st when the players trade is about even. Brogdon is hurt a lot.
2nd is for them helping us create 2 roster spots and taking Cam. I don't want Kuz over Rui |
Like I said, I’m not a Kuz fan, so I’m happy to cut him out entirely. It just depends if WAS is happier to take DLo or Rui (I suspect DLo given the expiring)
Just trying to think of a way that we can fill the defensive void in our starting lineup that 1) doesn’t give us two spacing black holes, and 2) doesn’t completely rely on the growth of Christie
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alleyoop
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| Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2024 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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Okay nvm people seem to think Brogdon’s defense is overrated lol
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Knecht4
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Joined: 23 Jun 2015
Posts: 8769
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| Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2024 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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| alleyoop wrote: | | Knecht4 wrote: | | alleyoop wrote: | | mad55557777 wrote: | | alleyoop wrote: | | Look I’m not a Kuzma fan, but if you can get him and Brogdon it’s a win. That said, I’m not sure Brogdon’s salary can be aggregated? |
Ok, let’s say Rui+DLo +1stfor brogdon+ Kuz, does that even make us better? I am going to say no |
Brogdon’s defense in the starting lineup alone is a huge help, fit-wise. The only question is his health, so you’d want to have good guard depth |
I would do a DLO, Cam, JHS, and a 2nd for Brogdon. That deal isn't worth a 1st when the players trade is about even. Brogdon is hurt a lot.
2nd is for them helping us create 2 roster spots and taking Cam. I don't want Kuz over Rui |
Like I said, I’m not a Kuz fan, so I’m happy to cut him out entirely. It just depends if WAS is happier to take DLo or Rui (I suspect DLo given the expiring)
Just trying to think of a way that we can fill the defensive void in our starting lineup that 1) doesn’t give us two spacing black holes, and 2) doesn’t completely rely on the growth of Christie |
They get out of DLO in a year and Cam. We give them a lotto ticket in JHS where they can decline his opinion next year and a 2nd round pick for their troubles
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Knecht4
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Joined: 23 Jun 2015
Posts: 8769
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| Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2024 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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| alleyoop wrote: | | Okay nvm people seem to think Brogdon’s defense is overrated lol |
It is better than Dlo though. I like the idea of getting him with not giving a 1st
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Japago
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Joined: 21 Jun 2018
Posts: 1704
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| Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2024 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Knecht4 wrote: | | alleyoop wrote: | | mad55557777 wrote: | | alleyoop wrote: | | Look I’m not a Kuzma fan, but if you can get him and Brogdon it’s a win. That said, I’m not sure Brogdon’s salary can be aggregated? |
Ok, let’s say Rui+DLo +1stfor brogdon+ Kuz, does that even make us better? I am going to say no |
Brogdon’s defense in the starting lineup alone is a huge help, fit-wise. The only question is his health, so you’d want to have good guard depth |
I would do a DLO, Cam, JHS, and a 2nd for Brogdon. That deal isn't worth a 1st when the players trade is about even. Brogdon is hurt a lot.
2nd is for them helping us create 2 roster spots and taking Cam. I don't want Kuz over Rui |
I would like Brogdon if it weren't for the injury risk. I do think people underrate what replacing the supporting cast with better defenders can do. People overlook the fact that putting DLo, AR, Rui together did result in the Lakers getting worse on defense.
The Lakers do have some guard depth now, and AR can be a fill-in secondary play-maker.
It's something to consider.
I agree on Rui over Kuzma. Kuzma was not consistent on pretty much anything while he was a Laker. He had problems being a complimentary scorer and had inconsistent defense. |
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alleyoop
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Joined: 08 Feb 2018
Posts: 4175
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| Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2024 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Knecht4 wrote: | | alleyoop wrote: | | Okay nvm people seem to think Brogdon’s defense is overrated lol |
It is better than Dlo though. I like the idea of getting him with not giving a 1st |
True
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Inspector Gadget
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Joined: 18 Apr 2016
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| Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2024 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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| It’s actually possible the Spurs ends up with Lauri and DeRozan, that starting line up with Wemby would be amazing |
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Knecht4
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2015
Posts: 8769
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| Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2024 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | It’s actually possible the Spurs ends up with Lauri and DeRozan, that starting line up with Wemby would be amazing |
Yup, if they land Lauri, they might be already a playoff team. If they add DD to that, they could come out the west. Lol
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nomoreshaq
Star Player
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 5281
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| Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2024 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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things are too quiet. something is brewing...
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windycitycane
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Joined: 31 Oct 2012
Posts: 13292
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| Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2024 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Killer_Z wrote: | Most of the trade scenarios being pitched on this thread are either unrealistic, or actually make us worse.
We need to hope for a lift this season with:
1) Much better coaching
2) Team continuity
3) A full and healthy season of Vincent and Vando
Could very well be good enough to land us a top 6 spot, and entry into the playoffs once again. After which, you never know. |
This.
Coaching alone will have us +10 wins this year.
If we remain healthy, add another +5.
Were we healthy at all last year?
I think Dalton is gonna be a special player.
I think we can make a run this year.
Go Lakers!
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Big Shot Bob
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Posts: 684
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| Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2024 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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This is basic economics, what’s happening here. The market has been thrown off by some outlandish trades (Gobert to Utah, Durant to PHX, Bridges to NY) and there is an enormous discrepancy between the price perception held by sellers and buyers. It will take some time to normalize, but eventually, they’ll come to an understanding of value.
Buyers don’t think they should have to trade multiple first rounders (when many of them don’t have many FRPs to trade), or would be mortgaging their future to do so… Sellers want the same type of return that they are seeing other teams get. The fact of the matter is that, in the long run, the buyers are more correct than the sellers would like them to be. There simply aren’t enough teams remaining who can (and would want to) trade 2-4 FRPs for the caliber of players that we’re talking about here: Jerami Grant, Kyle Kuzma, Cam Johnson, Dorian Finney-Smith.
Grant’s contract is bad - expirings and a first round pick should absolutely be his value. Kuzma is a role player with the ability to score - his value should be a contributing player and a FRP… same goes for Cam Johnson, but his shooting ability should probably net some additional SRPs or a swap. Finney-Smith is the type of player who should be traded for an expiring and 2-3 second round picks. Instead, all of those teams essentially want double that.
They will eventually settle. The Lakers should try to wait this out.
Last edited by Big Shot Bob on Wed Jul 03, 2024 9:35 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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