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wolfpaclaker
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 Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2024 4:34 am Post subject: |
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The Mavs are a really weird ceiling to aspire to be. I understand if we said Nuggets, who had lost Bruce Brown, and also had a down series from Jamal Murray due to injuries. They've been a contender for 5 years and consistently good.
The fact that I heard JJ mention them, really worries me. They're not a team you aspire to be in terms of end result. Being just good enough, eh. You want to be the best. The way you get to being the best is if you make some significant roster changes, especially ones that allow you to improve your defensive ability around lazy Lebron in the RS. You want to be a team that wins the West, or is in the top 2-3 all year. Not a team like Dallas or us 2 years ago getting hot late in the season after some big trade deadline trades.
Teams that have been winning titles:
Raptors 18-19: #2 seed in East (58 wins)
Lakers 19-20: #1 seed in West (58 wins pace)
Bucks 20-21: #3 seed in East (53 wins pace)
Warriors 21-22: #3 seed in West (53 wins pace)
Nuggets 22-23: #1 seed in West (53 wins pace)
Celtics 23-24: #1 seed in East (64 wins pace)
#1 thing we need to change is a bring it each night mentality. For that you need players around AD/Bron that will play defense each night, give you a chance to win.
The average wins total for 6 champions has been in the 55 wins range. These are all consistently good teams that aspire and realistically can be the #1 seed in their conference. If we're aiming for anything, that is where we should aim for and build a team good enough to get there. These gimmick short cut routes, stink of bad management. |
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deal
Franchise Player
Joined: 17 Aug 2008
Posts: 15108
Location: Earth
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| Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2024 4:39 am Post subject: |
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| CamReddish wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | CamReddish wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Lakersfan1211 wrote: | | Quote: | The Brooklyn Nets overall return for Kevin Durant is wild 🤯
Cam Johnson
8 unprotected 1st-round picks
1 protected 1st-round pick
2028 1st-round pick swap
2028 unprotected pick swap
3 2nd-round picks |
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Imagine if they just kept clinging to an already closed title window and just held onto Durant instead of building this giant war chest.
Imagine that. |
To be fair though, Harden, Irvine, and KD all asked for a trade. The Lakers did ask Lebron if he wanted to be traded last deadline and he said no. |
LeBron and AD don’t have no trade clauses. |
Lakers already have a bad rep. Would look pretty bad if the traded Lebron if he didn't want to be traded. Maybe AD, but then you run the risk of upsetting LeBron.
If they would trade Lebron without his permission, does that increase the chances of a star player coming here? |
LeBron is a FA now and the only way to trade him is via sign and trade.
Would I trade him if I could?; of course. The entire Klutch thing hangs over the
organization as a pressure point. The FO needs to build infrastructure and
a team to play both now and into the future.
Lots of work to be done IF the FO gets it.
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Lakers need to build a freaking team ! |
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governator
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Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 25527
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| Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2024 4:41 am Post subject: |
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Just curious, how much hypothetically, cap space, if DLo walk, MaxC/Taurean takes $11m.
LeBron takes MLE, how much cap left?
LeBron takes $20m?
LeBron takes $30m?
LeBron takes min?
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“The main goal for the Lakers is to win a championship. All I care about, all we care about, is to raise another banner in the rafters.“ |
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JUST-MING
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 44528
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| Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2024 4:48 am Post subject: |
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| ducasse wrote: | | eureca wrote: | Bridges seems way overrated to get that many picks in a trade. Nets definitely cooked with this trade.
Especially since reports are he requested a trade to the Knicks and he was ready to pressure them saying he would sign with the Knicks if anybody else traded for him. |
Five firsts for a guy who has never played at an all star level, never made an all-NBA team, and has made one all-defensive team in seven seasons? That's arguably a bigger heist than what OKC got from the Clippers for PG. |
It’s become so normalized. Almost every team that has made those types of trades has regretted it.
- Atlanta with Dejounte Murray
- Phoenix with Kevin Durant
- Brooklyn with James Harden
- Minnesota with Rudy Gobert
We still complain about it with Anthony Davis. |
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Palin
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Joined: 26 Feb 2008
Posts: 1854
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| Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2024 4:51 am Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | Assuming they can keep OG who’s agent is the GM’s son lol, Knicks has the best back court/wings combo outside of Boston. I mean
Jalen-Mikal-OG
McBride-Hart-DiVicenzo
All of them 27-29 yrs old aka in their prime
Sheesh, plus they still have Randle salary, Mitchell salary and 4 FRPs to do further trade since they’re going all in and everything. One hell of a move by Leon. Ur turn Rob |
all in with those picks and trade for Lauri |
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lakerican
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Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 3805
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| Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2024 4:52 am Post subject: |
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Why it is we can lowball Hurley, but can not lowball Lebron?
I will not draft Bronny and I will offer him a 1+1 50mil. That's it. Take it or leave it.
To the media, PR goes as Lebron being the highest 40+ paid player. |
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governator
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| Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2024 4:54 am Post subject: |
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| Palin wrote: | | governator wrote: | Assuming they can keep OG who’s agent is the GM’s son lol, Knicks has the best back court/wings combo outside of Boston. I mean
Jalen-Mikal-OG
McBride-Hart-DiVicenzo
All of them 27-29 yrs old aka in their prime
Sheesh, plus they still have Randle salary, Mitchell salary and 4 FRPs to do further trade since they’re going all in and everything. One hell of a move by Leon. Ur turn Rob |
all in with those picks and trade for Lauri |
That back court and u paired them with Lauri-Hartenstein? All under 30 too, damn
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“The main goal for the Lakers is to win a championship. All I care about, all we care about, is to raise another banner in the rafters.“ |
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ocho
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Joined: 24 May 2005
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| Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2024 5:12 am Post subject: |
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| levon wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | levon wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | levon wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | levon wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Players get traded without their knowledge or consent all the time. Who cares about upsetting LeBron? He’s going to be retired soon. |
Come on man, get real. |
LeBron isn’t even on the team. But we have to pander to him at 40 years old and worry about upsetting him? Please. |
The team wants to sign him because he's a money-making machine and still an elite player. If he wants out, you trade him. If he doesn't, you ride out his career. Those two mid-first picks you'd get for him aren't worth further being ostracized in free agency, and he's commanded enough respect league-wide and within the org that you don't backstab him. |
Ok so we have to pay him the max into his 40s, we have to draft his son who isn’t any good, we can’t trade him and we can’t trade AD either because it would upset him. And our prize for all of it is a play-in berth. Maybe it’s time to re-evaluate this relationship. |
The Mavs won three more games than us last year and made the NBA Finals. Maybe it's time you re-assess the competitive landscape in the league. We're not as far away as you make it seem. A full rebuild makes us very, very far away with no clear path to contention. |
Congrats to the Mavs for getting smoked in the finals. We were a 7 seed that won a single playoff game (first in 12 tries against Denver? We’ve got em right where we want em). Believe it or not, a full rebuild gets us closer to contention than running the hamster wheel for another few years and starting over then. |
At some point you gotta take the L on the Mavs moves "punching Luka's ticket out of town". Going in for Kyrie and the trades they made was the right thing to do. I'm sorry that they were three wins from the title despite having three more regular season wins than us. Teams who went all in got rewarded by actually getting closer to the chip than other teams, literally. You can save your chips for the Wemby era if you think that's somehow a safer bet.
I think you're operating with strategies from 2017 while predicting that they'll bear fruit in an NBA 5-7 years in the future. That's a very dangerous game. You could be going from one rebuild immediately into the next. In fact, that's historically the much more likely outcome. |
Not taking any L’s until he re-ups and while they went further than I expected I stand by those moves as capping their ceiling below a championship caliber team. You think they’ll replicate this run next year? I don’t. They enjoyed their version of our run last year. They hit favorable matchups until they played a legit contender and got killed. Now there’s little wiggle room to improve. I don’t know what you’re talking about 2017 strategies. You have to set yourself up for long term success. You do that by building up your assets. Picks and prospects. Hit some draft selections. We have one good prospect in Reaves who is already 26 and that’s pretty much it. We already have sent out multiple 1sts post-championship with little to show for it. The whole “The Mavs won 3 more games than us” thing is a fool’s hope. Does this mean New Orleans is a championship team? They only won one fewer game than Dallas. Is Sacramento raising a banner next year? Dallas only won 4 more games than them. Orlando also won 3 fewer. Do they seem on the cusp of championship to you?
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Palin
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Joined: 26 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2024 5:19 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | Knicks went all in. Wow. Their lineup looks good but leaves you questioning if it's more like Detroit Pistons of 2004 where they need that lucky year where all the right things fall in place for them.
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I think this Knicks teams in more like a mix of 2001 Sixers and 2004 Pistons. Brunson is like AI and they surrond jim wth great defenders. |
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dcarter4kobe
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Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 17976
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| Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2024 5:31 am Post subject: |
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| Big Shot Bob wrote: | | Solid points on trade value of picks… but on the other hand, all of the Knicks’ best players are like 25-28yo. They should be very good for the next 4-5 years. Therefore, their picks don’t have as much value. The Lakers’ best players are 39 and 32. Our future picks have much more value than NY’s. |
Bingo. I was telling friends last night, the Knicks can go all in like this b/c their core guys are around 27. That's a 5-6 year window easy. Especially now wit h guys still playing at elite levels at age 34-35 (PG, Kawhi, Steph, KD, Bron, Butler etc)
Doesn't make sense for the Lakers to even think of doing something like that with their best player 40 and 31.
_________________
"He's a Zen master, so he can speak to you, and he doesn't need a microphone; you can hear him in your head, 'Ron, don't shoot, don't shoot.' Whatever, pow, three. I love the Zen, though." |
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LakersMD
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Joined: 27 Jun 2003
Posts: 8078
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| Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2024 5:57 am Post subject: |
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| dcarter4kobe wrote: | | Big Shot Bob wrote: | | Solid points on trade value of picks… but on the other hand, all of the Knicks’ best players are like 25-28yo. They should be very good for the next 4-5 years. Therefore, their picks don’t have as much value. The Lakers’ best players are 39 and 32. Our future picks have much more value than NY’s. |
Bingo. I was telling friends last night, the Knicks can go all in like this b/c their core guys are around 27. That's a 5-6 year window easy. Especially now wit h guys still playing at elite levels at age 34-35 (PG, Kawhi, Steph, KD, Bron, Butler etc)
Doesn't make sense for the Lakers to even think of doing something like that with their best player 40 and 31. |
If they keep OG and one of their centers, then it’s a win for the Knicks. They didn’t lose a single player of consequence and they still have 5 first round picks in 2024-2026.
If they lose OG then…. |
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ChickenStu
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Joined: 25 Apr 2015
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Location: Anaheim, CA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2024 6:18 am Post subject: |
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| LakersMD wrote: | | dcarter4kobe wrote: | | Big Shot Bob wrote: | | Solid points on trade value of picks… but on the other hand, all of the Knicks’ best players are like 25-28yo. They should be very good for the next 4-5 years. Therefore, their picks don’t have as much value. The Lakers’ best players are 39 and 32. Our future picks have much more value than NY’s. |
Bingo. I was telling friends last night, the Knicks can go all in like this b/c their core guys are around 27. That's a 5-6 year window easy. Especially now wit h guys still playing at elite levels at age 34-35 (PG, Kawhi, Steph, KD, Bron, Butler etc)
Doesn't make sense for the Lakers to even think of doing something like that with their best player 40 and 31. |
If they keep OG and one of their centers, then it’s a win for the Knicks. They didn’t lose a single player of consequence and they still have 5 first round picks in 2024-2026.
If they lose OG then…. |
It looks like they are going to lose Hartenstein, possibly to OKC. Robinson is fine but he's more injury-prone and he doesn't do the same things for them that Hartenstein does. And Robinson is someone that you don't want to close games with, so it will be interesting to see what they choose to do. And they have to shed some salary to pay OG, so perhaps a Randle trade where they take back less salary is in the cards. Maybe for an Olynyk-like player? |
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Reds622
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Joined: 22 May 2015
Posts: 1536
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| Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2024 6:26 am Post subject: |
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| ChickenStu wrote: | | LakersMD wrote: | | dcarter4kobe wrote: | | Big Shot Bob wrote: | | Solid points on trade value of picks… but on the other hand, all of the Knicks’ best players are like 25-28yo. They should be very good for the next 4-5 years. Therefore, their picks don’t have as much value. The Lakers’ best players are 39 and 32. Our future picks have much more value than NY’s. |
Bingo. I was telling friends last night, the Knicks can go all in like this b/c their core guys are around 27. That's a 5-6 year window easy. Especially now wit h guys still playing at elite levels at age 34-35 (PG, Kawhi, Steph, KD, Bron, Butler etc)
Doesn't make sense for the Lakers to even think of doing something like that with their best player 40 and 31. |
If they keep OG and one of their centers, then it’s a win for the Knicks. They didn’t lose a single player of consequence and they still have 5 first round picks in 2024-2026.
If they lose OG then…. |
It looks like they are going to lose Hartenstein, possibly to OKC. Robinson is fine but he's more injury-prone and he doesn't do the same things for them that Hartenstein does. And Robinson is someone that you don't want to close games with, so it will be interesting to see what they choose to do. And they have to shed some salary to pay OG, so perhaps a Randle trade where they take back less salary is in the cards. Maybe for an Olynyk-like player? |
Hartenstein and Caruso is a home run offseason for OKC.
Hope they don’t get him. |
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ChickenStu
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Location: Anaheim, CA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2024 6:41 am Post subject: |
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^
I'm sure OKC is thinking that it would rather pay Hartenstein over giving up valuable draft capital for, say, Jarrett Allen. |
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SGV-Laker fan
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Joined: 23 May 2013
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| Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2024 6:48 am Post subject: |
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| it's a such water down league. Celtics' title have pave the way for other teams that you don't need generational stars like Curry, LeBron or KD to win a title anymore. just string together 2 or 3 2nd tier all stars, and you'd be set. |
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ocho
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| Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2024 6:51 am Post subject: |
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| SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | it's a such water down league. Celtics' title have pave the way for other teams that you don't need generational stars like Curry, LeBron or KD to win a title anymore. just string together 2 or 3 2nd tier all stars, and you'd be set. |
I know the path Boston got this year was comically easy due to an incredible amount of lucky circumstances bending their way but if we are being honest they won 64 games which was a whopping 7 more than the next best team. They were a dominant team. They just did it with amazing depth rather than a top heavy star(s).
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anth2000
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Joined: 16 Apr 2001
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Location: Pasadena, CA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2024 6:52 am Post subject: |
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| lakerican wrote: | Why it is we can lowball Hurley, but can not lowball Lebron?
I will not draft Bronny and I will offer him a 1+1 50mil. That's it. Take it or leave it.
To the media, PR goes as Lebron being the highest 40+ paid player. |
They didn’t lowball Hurley.
He would have been the 5th highest paid coach in the NBA.
Behind 3 head coaches that won’t titles.
1 who didn’t.
Not a lowball at all. Wish people would stop saying that.
It was have been colossal asinine to pay Hurley more than Spoelstra, Kerr and Popovich. Stupid.
Be real… |
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Halflife
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Joined: 15 Aug 2015
Posts: 17763
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| Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2024 6:57 am Post subject: |
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| anth2000 wrote: | | lakerican wrote: | Why it is we can lowball Hurley, but can not lowball Lebron?
I will not draft Bronny and I will offer him a 1+1 50mil. That's it. Take it or leave it.
To the media, PR goes as Lebron being the highest 40+ paid player. |
They didn’t lowball Hurley.
He would have been the 5th highest paid coach in the NBA.
Behind 3 head coaches that won’t titles.
1 who didn’t.
Not a lowball at all. Wish people would stop saying that.
It was have been colossal asinine to pay Hurley more than Spoelstra, Kerr and Popovich. Stupid.
Be real… |
+ he was never coming. Had they offered more, he turns it down and the narrative shifts to how everyone hates the FO. Imho. No win situation going after him other than at least they tried which is good enough for me.
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Kobe.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Clw9scopegx/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y= |
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ocho
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| Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2024 7:01 am Post subject: |
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| Halflife wrote: | | anth2000 wrote: | | lakerican wrote: | Why it is we can lowball Hurley, but can not lowball Lebron?
I will not draft Bronny and I will offer him a 1+1 50mil. That's it. Take it or leave it.
To the media, PR goes as Lebron being the highest 40+ paid player. |
They didn’t lowball Hurley.
He would have been the 5th highest paid coach in the NBA.
Behind 3 head coaches that won’t titles.
1 who didn’t.
Not a lowball at all. Wish people would stop saying that.
It was have been colossal asinine to pay Hurley more than Spoelstra, Kerr and Popovich. Stupid.
Be real… |
+ he was never coming. Had they offered more, he turns it down and the narrative shifts to how everyone hates the FO. Imho. No win situation going after him other than at least they tried which is good enough for me. |
Additionally, trying to financially force someone to begrudgingly take a job they don’t want is not a good strategy. This is what Detroit did with Monty and I don’t think we want to replicate how that went. We’ll see how Redick does as a coach but at the very least he eagerly wanted the job and is excited and motivated to do well at it. Dan didn’t want it.
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dcarter4kobe
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Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 17976
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| Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2024 7:01 am Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | it's a such water down league. Celtics' title have pave the way for other teams that you don't need generational stars like Curry, LeBron or KD to win a title anymore. just string together 2 or 3 2nd tier all stars, and you'd be set. |
I know the path Boston got this year was comically easy due to an incredible amount of lucky circumstances bending their way but if we are being honest they won 64 games which was a whopping 7 more than the next best team. They were a dominant team. They just did it with amazing depth rather than a top heavy star(s). |
& even with that depth, most people would easily agree Tatum is a top 8 player in NBA. And Brown top 15. Ranked 5 & 15 by the ringer. LeBron AD is at 10 and 12.
The difference is of course in the 2 way players Boston have in White, Holiday, KP, Horford.
_________________
"He's a Zen master, so he can speak to you, and he doesn't need a microphone; you can hear him in your head, 'Ron, don't shoot, don't shoot.' Whatever, pow, three. I love the Zen, though." |
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ocho
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Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 54590
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| Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2024 7:05 am Post subject: |
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| dcarter4kobe wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | it's a such water down league. Celtics' title have pave the way for other teams that you don't need generational stars like Curry, LeBron or KD to win a title anymore. just string together 2 or 3 2nd tier all stars, and you'd be set. |
I know the path Boston got this year was comically easy due to an incredible amount of lucky circumstances bending their way but if we are being honest they won 64 games which was a whopping 7 more than the next best team. They were a dominant team. They just did it with amazing depth rather than a top heavy star(s). |
& even with that depth, most people would easily agree Tatum is a top 8 player in NBA. And Brown top 15. Ranked 5 & 15 by the ringer. LeBron AD is at 10 and 12.
The difference is of course in the 2 way players Boston have in White, Holiday, KP, Horford. |
They were already a very good team and pulled off a series of unbelievable trades where they had to sacrifice virtually nothing. Masterful team building.
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tox
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Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 18373
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| Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2024 7:44 am Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | it's a such water down league. Celtics' title have pave the way for other teams that you don't need generational stars like Curry, LeBron or KD to win a title anymore. just string together 2 or 3 2nd tier all stars, and you'd be set. |
I know the path Boston got this year was comically easy due to an incredible amount of lucky circumstances bending their way but if we are being honest they won 64 games which was a whopping 7 more than the next best team. They were a dominant team. They just did it with amazing depth rather than a top heavy star(s). |
I've seen a 67 win Spurs team get destroyed by KD/WB. I've seen a 66 win Cavs team get destroyed by DH12. Regular season success as measured by wins is meh -- and nothing about the Celtics' postseason screamed dominance to me. |
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governator
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Posts: 25527
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| Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2024 7:45 am Post subject: |
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| Halflife wrote: | | anth2000 wrote: | | lakerican wrote: | Why it is we can lowball Hurley, but can not lowball Lebron?
I will not draft Bronny and I will offer him a 1+1 50mil. That's it. Take it or leave it.
To the media, PR goes as Lebron being the highest 40+ paid player. |
They didn’t lowball Hurley.
He would have been the 5th highest paid coach in the NBA.
Behind 3 head coaches that won’t titles.
1 who didn’t.
Not a lowball at all. Wish people would stop saying that.
It was have been colossal asinine to pay Hurley more than Spoelstra, Kerr and Popovich. Stupid.
Be real… |
+ he was never coming. Had they offered more, he turns it down and the narrative shifts to how everyone hates the FO. Imho. No win situation going after him other than at least they tried which is good enough for me. |
I don’t see it the same way, Lakers were trying to poach a settled coach, not a coach looking for a job. Salaries of other coaches are irrelevant. We did have to come over the top, no different than a company trying to get someone else’s CEO or lead tech guy. The offer if true simply wasn’t over the top. It was a great offer for someone looking for a job like Budenholzer but not a happily situated Hurley. If you think a person would be a lazy hire once he/she signed the contract then you don’t go after them in the first place but once you made up your mind that this is the coach we want, especially without any lux tax/punitive cap, the number simply was too low
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“The main goal for the Lakers is to win a championship. All I care about, all we care about, is to raise another banner in the rafters.“ |
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ocho
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Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 54590
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| Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2024 7:51 am Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | it's a such water down league. Celtics' title have pave the way for other teams that you don't need generational stars like Curry, LeBron or KD to win a title anymore. just string together 2 or 3 2nd tier all stars, and you'd be set. |
I know the path Boston got this year was comically easy due to an incredible amount of lucky circumstances bending their way but if we are being honest they won 64 games which was a whopping 7 more than the next best team. They were a dominant team. They just did it with amazing depth rather than a top heavy star(s). |
I've seen a 67 win Spurs team get destroyed by KD/WB. I've seen a 66 win Cavs team get destroyed by DH12. Regular season success as measured by wins is meh -- and nothing about the Celtics' postseason screamed dominance to me. |
The last 5 champions were seeded 1, 1, 3, 3, and 1. Outliers and exceptions happen, but the champ is almost always a top seed.
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DanKD
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Posts: 20
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| Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2024 8:11 am Post subject: |
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| Seeing what teams got for Gobert and Bridges, we should trade both Lebron and AD for a haul of 1st round picks and start over. |
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