Rui/Gabe/picks for Dejounte Murray
DLo (opts in)/JHS/Wood/pick for Cam Johnson/Day’Ron Sharpe
Sign CP3 in free agency.
Dejounte gives the Lakers a significantly better rebounding guard than DLo, and rebounding has been a major playoff issue. Also, despite Dejounte’s defensive woes recently, I think he has the potential to return to being a good defender on a team with high expectations and LeBron. Cam gives the Lakers a big, elite shooter. Day’Ron is a big, physical center to back up AD. CP3 can still be a more than serviceable backup PG.
Dejounte/CP3
Reaves/Christie
Johnson
LeBron/Vando
AD/Sharpe
Lakers could also do a DLo for DFS/Day’Ron deal, if the Nets don’t want to deal Johnson.
The extra rebounding from a guard could be useful but the 3 critical attributes for a point guard…in order.. are:
1 - Playmaking,
2 - Shooting, especially from 3pt,
3 - Defense.
DJM only upgrades 1 of those 3, and it is the 3rd ranked most critical attribute, defense. The downgrade at 3pt shooting…by a huge amount…could be a significant negative affect on the overall quality of offense. He wouldn’t spread the floor as effectively for AD to operate in the paint as well as limiting LBJ drives to the hoop. The downgrade in playmaking isn’t as major since the assists would be similar…and perhaps CP3 could compensate…but one of the Lakers biggest problems last year was turnovers and DJM downgrades there too with more topg and worse assist/turover ratio.
Better rebounding and defense from Murray has to be compared to his not as good of 3pt shooting and playmaking…plus factor in the cost to acquire…to make sure he is an upgrade overall. We could probably survive the dip in playmaking with DJM having more spg but the loss in 3pt shooting would need to be compensated for.
I do not disagree at all with your DLo vs. Dejounte analysis. Yes, Dejounte would be a passing/playmaking and 3pt shooting downgrade. I think this would hurt over 82 games.
However, at this point, I am singularly focused on how to win 16 games in the playoffs. DLo's passing/playmaking/shooting disappears for the most part in a postseason setting. We have seen where that gets the Lakers and it's disappointing playoff exits. Even if certain strengths may leave with DLo's departure, no team is perfect and this model is clearly not working anyway. It's time for a change and for the Lakers to strengthen their defense and rebounding — two aspects of the game that can be a strength and a constant. What has hurt the Lakers over the past two seasons is that they have too many one-dimensional players who, if they aren't scoring, become abysmal contributors on the floor because they can't provide anything else. Defense and rebounding provide a baseline floor for success, even through inevitable scoring droughts, and I believe LeBron and AD are dominant enough scorers that if they are surrounded by defense and rebounding, they can win another title together.
While Dejounte may not be as good of a passer/playmaker as DLo, he's well above average as a 3rd passer/playmaking option, which would be his role in the playoffs behind LeBron and Austin. And yes, he's around a 36% 3pt shooter, but having watched far too many Hawks games on League Pass, he still receives quite a bit of defensive attention beyond the arc and has the ability to get scorching hot.
And what Dejounte lacks in 3pt shooting and passing, he more than makes up for in his athleticism and his ability to attack downhill. He also has proven to be a clutch shotmaker.
And, again, most importantly, Dejounte can potentially be a MASSIVE upgrade as a defender and rebounder.
BTW - To your point of needing to compensate for the loss in 3pt shooting if the Lakers get rid of DLo, that's why I think a trade for Cam Johnson would be enormously beneficial and almost necessary if the Lakers decide to go with Dejounte. I am also banking on Austin Reaves to improve from beyond the arc.
Not sure about the Dejounte hype.
Don’t think he’s really an upgrade over Russell.
Marginal at best. Throwing multiple 1sts on top of that is lunacy. Our biggest need is not point guard (and he’s not even a point guard.) _________________ 14-5-3-12
Not sure about the Dejounte hype.
Don’t think he’s really an upgrade over Russell.
Marginal at best. Throwing multiple 1sts on top of that is lunacy. Our biggest need is not point guard (and he’s not even a point guard.)
Totally agree.
Waste of time.
Concur with both of you.
How would upgrading possibly the Lakers greatest weakness (backcourt defensive play) be a waste of time?
If this trade happens, it’s going to be amusing seeing some posters around here pretending like they always thought how great of a player he was.
It’s a glaring hole on the roster. Dlo is a terrible defender who seems to make terrible turnovers at the worst possible times. Those negative momentum plays.
Great shooter. Not a great overall player. Imagine him playing against Jrue Holiday and expecting him to contribute to winning? Good luck.
Side note-I also have an issue with the Lakers valuing Rui over DLo (if he opts in). If he opts in, keeping him and shopping Rui would not be the worse thing in the world, if we care about wins.
Both should be shop if we believed defense wins championship.
Pay attention to the whispers in the articles. Rui is still included in the Lakers "young core" they want to see developed. DLo on the other hand sounds like for sure goner _________________ "He's a Zen master, so he can speak to you, and he doesn't need a microphone; you can hear him in your head, 'Ron, don't shoot, don't shoot.' Whatever, pow, three. I love the Zen, though."
How would upgrading possibly the Lakers greatest weakness (backcourt defensive play) be a waste of time?
Why didn’t he upgrade Atlanta’s? That’s the reason they traded for him. It didn’t work and now they want to turn their mistake into ours. _________________ 14-5-3-12
Joined: 25 Apr 2015 Posts: 32737 Location: Anaheim, CA
Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2024 5:39 pm Post subject:
ocho wrote:
Quote:
How would upgrading possibly the Lakers greatest weakness (backcourt defensive play) be a waste of time?
Why didn’t he upgrade Atlanta’s? That’s the reason they traded for him. It didn’t work and now they want to turn their mistake into ours.
Exactly. The public seems to think that Murray is a good defender. He hasn't been for quite some time. Now, could it be that he was somehow dogging it with Atlanta? I mean, it wouldn't be the first time a player did that, but my question would be, why? He got traded to a team that had clear playoff aspirations and one that fancied itself as a contender. If the effort wasn't there, why would that be?
Not sure about the Dejounte hype.
Don’t think he’s really an upgrade over Russell.
Marginal at best. Throwing multiple 1sts on top of that is lunacy. Our biggest need is not point guard (and he’s not even a point guard.)
Marginal overall, but significant in specific areas (rebounding, defense, athleticism, and downhill attack) and I genuinely believe those areas of upgrade would improve the Lakers’ playoff chances.
How would upgrading possibly the Lakers greatest weakness (backcourt defensive play) be a waste of time?
Why didn’t he upgrade Atlanta’s? That’s the reason they traded for him. It didn’t work and now they want to turn their mistake into ours.
Exactly. The public seems to think that Murray is a good defender. He hasn't been for quite some time. Now, could it be that he was somehow dogging it with Atlanta? I mean, it wouldn't be the first time a player did that, but my question would be, why? He got traded to a team that had clear playoff aspirations and one that fancied itself as a contender. If the effort wasn't there, why would that be?
If on Atlanta, you think he’s a below average defender?
I don’t think so.
And yes, I think it’s entirely possible that playing for a losing franchise on a losing team with losing players could impact the defensive end. Might be difficult to really bear down when the rest of your team is a defensive sieve who can’t stop anybody.
Put him under the bright lights with more accountability and I’ll take my chances on what happens.
And maybe it won’t. I might be wrong. Considering what else is on the market and who is really available that could elevate the team immediately, I can’t think of someone who might strike that balance between making the team better and having to trade EVERYTHING to get him.
How would upgrading possibly the Lakers greatest weakness (backcourt defensive play) be a waste of time?
Why didn’t he upgrade Atlanta’s? That’s the reason they traded for him. It didn’t work and now they want to turn their mistake into ours.
Exactly. The public seems to think that Murray is a good defender. He hasn't been for quite some time. Now, could it be that he was somehow dogging it with Atlanta? I mean, it wouldn't be the first time a player did that, but my question would be, why? He got traded to a team that had clear playoff aspirations and one that fancied itself as a contender. If the effort wasn't there, why would that be?
Him dogging it is the best case scenario for why he hasn’t been a good defender in a minute. Of course, then that begs the question as to why we are sinking multiple picks into a player that dogs it? He’s been drafting off an old small sample size rep for years now. He’s got some off court attitude stuff I think is off putting. But really, if we are going to spend that kind of draft capital we should address an actual need. We need a big. We need a wing. Theoretically upgrading DLo would be nice, but a PG that’s not a PG isn’t a pressing need. _________________ 14-5-3-12
Joined: 25 Apr 2015 Posts: 32737 Location: Anaheim, CA
Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2024 6:03 pm Post subject:
ocho wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
ocho wrote:
Quote:
How would upgrading possibly the Lakers greatest weakness (backcourt defensive play) be a waste of time?
Why didn’t he upgrade Atlanta’s? That’s the reason they traded for him. It didn’t work and now they want to turn their mistake into ours.
Exactly. The public seems to think that Murray is a good defender. He hasn't been for quite some time. Now, could it be that he was somehow dogging it with Atlanta? I mean, it wouldn't be the first time a player did that, but my question would be, why? He got traded to a team that had clear playoff aspirations and one that fancied itself as a contender. If the effort wasn't there, why would that be?
Him dogging it is the best case scenario for why he hasn’t been a good defender in a minute. Of course, then that begs the question as to why we are sinking multiple picks into a player that dogs it? He’s been drafting off an old small sample size rep for years now. He’s got some off court attitude stuff I think is off putting. But really, if we are going to spend that kind of draft capital we should address an actual need. We need a big. We need a wing. Theoretically upgrading DLo would be nice, but a PG that’s not a PG isn’t a pressing need.
I'm with you. I just don't think he's the right guy, and I agree that there's some off-the-court attitude stuff that I find to be problematic as well.
Hey if we can get DJM for Rui+JHS/filler I'm all for it.
But trading 1st round draft picks for a team that most likley wont be a true contender regardless, na. _________________ "He's a Zen master, so he can speak to you, and he doesn't need a microphone; you can hear him in your head, 'Ron, don't shoot, don't shoot.' Whatever, pow, three. I love the Zen, though."
How would upgrading possibly the Lakers greatest weakness (backcourt defensive play) be a waste of time?
Why didn’t he upgrade Atlanta’s? That’s the reason they traded for him. It didn’t work and now they want to turn their mistake into ours.
Exactly. The public seems to think that Murray is a good defender. He hasn't been for quite some time. Now, could it be that he was somehow dogging it with Atlanta? I mean, it wouldn't be the first time a player did that, but my question would be, why? He got traded to a team that had clear playoff aspirations and one that fancied itself as a contender. If the effort wasn't there, why would that be?
Him dogging it is the best case scenario for why he hasn’t been a good defender in a minute. Of course, then that begs the question as to why we are sinking multiple picks into a player that dogs it? He’s been drafting off an old small sample size rep for years now. He’s got some off court attitude stuff I think is off putting. But really, if we are going to spend that kind of draft capital we should address an actual need. We need a big. We need a wing. Theoretically upgrading DLo would be nice, but a PG that’s not a PG isn’t a pressing need.
I'm with you. I just don't think he's the right guy, and I agree that there's some off-the-court attitude stuff that I find to be problematic as well.
Can you explain the off court attitude. What does stuff mean?
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