| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
1995Lakers
Star Player
Joined: 26 Aug 2020
Posts: 4762
|
 Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2024 3:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Cutheon wrote: | | george w kush wrote: | | Brawn13 wrote: | If there was not enough outrage when these words were supposedly spewed back then, it matters even less now.
Just let him coach and let’s see what we have in him |
This is just the start of it. We have all seen how these character assassinations play out. Someone will dig up a tweet from 10 years ago, someone will accuse him of something he did in college, etc… |
And this is also definitely a fair take and a bit of what’s happening here. But god it always happens to us doesn’t it. So annoying |
To be fair, it didnt happen to genuinely good dudes like Ham, Brown or pretty much any other coach we hired so Im sure there is some or a lot of degree of truth to these. And I know some people in Duke who attended and knew him during the years he played there and him being an alcoholic degenerate was common news. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
ducasse
Star Player
Joined: 05 Sep 2002
Posts: 8480
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2024 4:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| This has the potential to create a really awkward situation for Redick with the players. I doubt he would have been hired if this came out earlier. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dominic1981
Star Player
Joined: 09 Feb 2022
Posts: 1295
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2024 4:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The same woman “Vanessa Lopez” banging Shaq and JJ shows she’s had quite a variety in her life 😂😂…imagine going from JJ to Shaq? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dominic1981
Star Player
Joined: 09 Feb 2022
Posts: 1295
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2024 4:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Cutheon wrote: | To be fair to the woman, she did say that she is a Laker fan and I’m guessing it mattered more to her when this man actually became the coach of her favorite team as opposed to when he was just a random podcaster/former player/douche jock.
Also she said she loves Kobe so am I really supposed to distrust this woman? I’m conflicted. My love of Kobe and dislike/mistrust/experience with dudes who look like JJ has me believing her.
That said…people can mature and change and, well, Kobe is the poster child for that, isn’t he? |
It’s 20+ years later. Who gives a (bleep)? JJ was employed in a league that’s 90% black, for 15+ years. Getting along with blacks would seem to be something he doesn’t have a problem with. I’m sure he’d have been out of the league if it was a problem |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dominic1981
Star Player
Joined: 09 Feb 2022
Posts: 1295
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2024 4:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Denny_Russo wrote: | I ain't no Redick guy as seen by my lack of support and criticism of the hire, but cancel culture needs to be cancelled and then promptly thrown in the garbage bin. It's a scourge on humanity.
So he said something offensive. Boo-hoo. Do people not remember what the 80s/90s were like? If someone or something offended you, you changed the channel or settled it with fisticuffs (supervised of course) and then moved on.
Grow up. People say mean things to other people. That doesn't mean I'm gonna go after their income and make them jobless. It's the ghouls of society who do that and they need to be held accountable.
This actually makes me want to support him more. |
We’ve reached boy cries wolf territory with regard to this cancel culture bs and nobody is tolerating it anymore. That’s why Dana White is my favorite sports league commissioner/owner. He doesn’t take BS from anyone. He doesn’t put a muzzle on his fighters and lets them say whatever they want.
Look at how stupid the WNBA is with not putting their cash cow Caitlin Clark on the Olympic team. That league is ran by morons. The Lakers hopefully are not and will go after all the media race baiters that take shots at JJ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Halflife
Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2015
Posts: 17768
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Denny_Russo
Star Player
Joined: 27 Jan 2016
Posts: 3209
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2024 4:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Dominic1981 wrote: | | Denny_Russo wrote: | I ain't no Redick guy as seen by my lack of support and criticism of the hire, but cancel culture needs to be cancelled and then promptly thrown in the garbage bin. It's a scourge on humanity.
So he said something offensive. Boo-hoo. Do people not remember what the 80s/90s were like? If someone or something offended you, you changed the channel or settled it with fisticuffs (supervised of course) and then moved on.
Grow up. People say mean things to other people. That doesn't mean I'm gonna go after their income and make them jobless. It's the ghouls of society who do that and they need to be held accountable.
This actually makes me want to support him more. |
We’ve reached boy cries wolf territory with regard to this cancel culture bs and nobody is tolerating it anymore. That’s why Dana White is my favorite sports league commissioner/owner. He doesn’t take BS from anyone. He doesn’t put a muzzle on his fighters and lets them say whatever they want.
Look at how stupid the WNBA is with not putting their cash cow Caitlin Clark on the Olympic team. That league is ran by morons. The Lakers hopefully are not and will go after all the media race baiters that take shots at JJ |
I remember some woman reporter trying to cancel Charles Barkley for derogatory comments he made about women in an interview a while ago. Then the twitter crowd dug up her tweets from 10 years ago and found out she had a history of racist comments towards Asians (driving jokes, slanted eyes, the usual).
One day you are cancelling someone and the next it is you who is being cancelled. It's a cycle and a dangerous symptom of a society that is vindictive and unable to move on. The real victims of cancel culture are the ones who have legitimate grievances and claims but aren't believed because everyone is crying wolf now and looking for their 15 minutes of fame.
_________________
Yi Jianlian Fanboy. Respect The Chair.
Starting anew. I'm retiring my main. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TDRock
Retired Number
Joined: 27 May 2010
Posts: 50025
Location: LA to the Bay
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2024 6:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| lakersfan32 wrote: | | if he is racist, wouldn't he have done his podcast with jokic and not lebron? lol |
Not necessarily, LeBron personifies exceptionalism. And if JJ really thinks he’s the best then it makes sense that he would want to podcast with someone who is consistently thought of as the best in his generation basketball player and basketball mind.
I don’t have a problem believing Homie girl I have been called bizarre things under various circumstances but JJ had a whole 15 year career and he’s been on TV & Podcast King for the last however long. I don’t know if she brought this up before and felt unheard or why now…timing is…odd.
_________________
#Welp |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TDRock
Retired Number
Joined: 27 May 2010
Posts: 50025
Location: LA to the Bay
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2024 6:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Cutheon wrote: | To be fair to the woman, she did say that she is a Laker fan and I’m guessing it mattered more to her when this man actually became the coach of her favorite team as opposed to when he was just a random podcaster/former player/douche jock.
Also she said she loves Kobe so am I really supposed to distrust this woman? I’m conflicted. My love of Kobe and dislike/mistrust/experience with dudes who look like JJ has me believing her.
That said…people can mature and change and, well, Kobe is the poster child for that, isn’t he? |
Oh, is that right? That makes sense. But yes, she said herself in her tweet that people mature and change. To the folks who are talking about it’s been over 20 years this at the other I can assure you that doesn’t matter. I still remember the first time I got called that like it was yesterday so yeah on that.
If JJ is a jerk, then he is one amongst many in this league so my hope is that he’s a jerk who can coach.
_________________
#Welp |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lakersfever714
Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Jan 2016
Posts: 12536
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2024 6:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Destroy all the past emails. Leave no evidence. Don't be like Gruden. I sure hope people don't start digging into JJ's past and try to ruin him. Gruden was a good coach. It would be a shame if JJ could coach and then some emails from the past ruined his career.
_________________
Los Angeles Lakers 2025 NBA Champions!! Go JJ!  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dr. Laker
Franchise Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2002
Posts: 17250
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2024 7:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Denny_Russo wrote: | I ain't no Redick guy as seen by my lack of support and criticism of the hire, but cancel culture needs to be cancelled and then promptly thrown in the garbage bin. It's a scourge on humanity.
So he said something offensive. Boo-hoo. Do people not remember what the 80s/90s were like? If someone or something offended you, you changed the channel or settled it with fisticuffs (supervised of course) and then moved on.
Grow up. People say mean things to other people. That doesn't mean I'm gonna go after their income and make them jobless. It's the ghouls of society who do that and they need to be held accountable.
I hated the hire and think he has a Napoleon complex, but this actually makes me want to support him more. |
Nope. Using racial slurs is a fireable offense - it's a reflection on the brand. If I used it 25 years ago and it surfaces, then I need to have done a hell of a lot if work to show that I'm no longer that guy.
Complaining about "cancel culture" is small dick energy.
_________________
On Lakersground, a concern troll is someone who is a fan of another team, but pretends to be a Lakers fan with "concerns". |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Brawn13
Star Player
Joined: 30 Jan 2019
Posts: 4067
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2024 7:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Dr. Laker wrote: | | Denny_Russo wrote: | I ain't no Redick guy as seen by my lack of support and criticism of the hire, but cancel culture needs to be cancelled and then promptly thrown in the garbage bin. It's a scourge on humanity.
So he said something offensive. Boo-hoo. Do people not remember what the 80s/90s were like? If someone or something offended you, you changed the channel or settled it with fisticuffs (supervised of course) and then moved on.
Grow up. People say mean things to other people. That doesn't mean I'm gonna go after their income and make them jobless. It's the ghouls of society who do that and they need to be held accountable.
I hated the hire and think he has a Napoleon complex, but this actually makes me want to support him more. |
Nope. Using racial slurs is a fireable offense - it's a reflection on the brand. If I used it 25 years ago and it surfaces, then I need to have done a hell of a lot if work to show that I'm no longer that guy.
Complaining about "cancel culture" is small dick energy. |
Cancel culture is BS. Racial slurs are bigger deal now than when JJ supposedly spewed them. If it was such a big deal back then she would’ve spoken up when it happened. It obviously didn’t bother her enough to do so 20 years ago.
She’s just clout chasing. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Denny_Russo
Star Player
Joined: 27 Jan 2016
Posts: 3209
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2024 7:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Dr. Laker wrote: | | Denny_Russo wrote: | I ain't no Redick guy as seen by my lack of support and criticism of the hire, but cancel culture needs to be cancelled and then promptly thrown in the garbage bin. It's a scourge on humanity.
So he said something offensive. Boo-hoo. Do people not remember what the 80s/90s were like? If someone or something offended you, you changed the channel or settled it with fisticuffs (supervised of course) and then moved on.
Grow up. People say mean things to other people. That doesn't mean I'm gonna go after their income and make them jobless. It's the ghouls of society who do that and they need to be held accountable.
I hated the hire and think he has a Napoleon complex, but this actually makes me want to support him more. |
Nope. Using racial slurs is a fireable offense - it's a reflection on the brand. If I used it 25 years ago and it surfaces, then I need to have done a hell of a lot if work to show that I'm no longer that guy.
Complaining about "cancel culture" is small dick energy. |
Promoting cancel culture, being part of the mob and getting people fired over comments or unproven allegations is loose vagina energy. I condemn those demons and ghouls who seek to cancel people over words because it's the dumbest thing ever and detracts from the real problems in society.
And if you want to go really deep, half the NBA is anti-Semitic and racist against Asians. The vast majority of them support Kyrie, and Lebron even brought up "Jewish money" in one of his instagram posts. You can dig up dirt on just about any player these days.
Do you remember Shaq's comments on Yao Ming back in 03? That was the norm when Yao was drafted, and he had to hear it constantly from NBA players and fans. Shaq just went public with his comments because he wanted people to laugh, even though it was a dumb and inappropriate thing to say. Did he lose any sponsors after that? He's lucky twitter wasn't around.
_________________
Yi Jianlian Fanboy. Respect The Chair.
Starting anew. I'm retiring my main. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dr. Laker
Franchise Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2002
Posts: 17250
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2024 8:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Brawn13 wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | | Denny_Russo wrote: | I ain't no Redick guy as seen by my lack of support and criticism of the hire, but cancel culture needs to be cancelled and then promptly thrown in the garbage bin. It's a scourge on humanity.
So he said something offensive. Boo-hoo. Do people not remember what the 80s/90s were like? If someone or something offended you, you changed the channel or settled it with fisticuffs (supervised of course) and then moved on.
Grow up. People say mean things to other people. That doesn't mean I'm gonna go after their income and make them jobless. It's the ghouls of society who do that and they need to be held accountable.
I hated the hire and think he has a Napoleon complex, but this actually makes me want to support him more. |
Nope. Using racial slurs is a fireable offense - it's a reflection on the brand. If I used it 25 years ago and it surfaces, then I need to have done a hell of a lot if work to show that I'm no longer that guy.
Complaining about "cancel culture" is small dick energy. |
Cancel culture is BS. Racial slurs are bigger deal now than when JJ supposedly spewed them. If it was such a big deal back then she would’ve spoken up when it happened. It obviously didn’t bother her enough to do so 20 years ago.
She’s just clout chasing. |
I don't know what privileged enclave you grew up in, but you may recall that the OJ Simpson trial turned when it came out that Det. Mark Fuhrman used the N word (Fuhrman was later convicted of perjury for lying about not using it). That was in 1995.
"Cancel culture" was the norm for most of American history. People were expected to be polite and respectful. That changed - intentionally - during Reagan's 1980 Presidential campaign.
I'll stop with the History lesson and get back to hoops . . . but I have a bag full of receipts.
_________________
On Lakersground, a concern troll is someone who is a fan of another team, but pretends to be a Lakers fan with "concerns". |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
1995Lakers
Star Player
Joined: 26 Aug 2020
Posts: 4762
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2024 8:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Dr. Laker wrote: | | Denny_Russo wrote: | I ain't no Redick guy as seen by my lack of support and criticism of the hire, but cancel culture needs to be cancelled and then promptly thrown in the garbage bin. It's a scourge on humanity.
So he said something offensive. Boo-hoo. Do people not remember what the 80s/90s were like? If someone or something offended you, you changed the channel or settled it with fisticuffs (supervised of course) and then moved on.
Grow up. People say mean things to other people. That doesn't mean I'm gonna go after their income and make them jobless. It's the ghouls of society who do that and they need to be held accountable.
I hated the hire and think he has a Napoleon complex, but this actually makes me want to support him more. |
Nope. Using racial slurs is a fireable offense - it's a reflection on the brand. If I used it 25 years ago and it surfaces, then I need to have done a hell of a lot if work to show that I'm no longer that guy.
Complaining about "cancel culture" is small dick energy. |
No STOP IT.....so all the years in the NBA where he proved to be a great locker room guy with no signs of racism in a league primarily black counts for nothing because of an alleged event committed around 20 years ago when he was in college? The guy has done nothing but work hard to build arguably a stronger national brand than he did as a player and that needs to go away because of an alleged accusation by one person? Even if this were true, and there is reason to doubt it is, it is something he should have paid for a long time ago - not damn 20 years later by a clout chaser when he is about to be the coach of the greatest organization in basketball |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CamReddish
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2015
Posts: 8604
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2024 8:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Dr. Laker wrote: | | Brawn13 wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | | Denny_Russo wrote: | I ain't no Redick guy as seen by my lack of support and criticism of the hire, but cancel culture needs to be cancelled and then promptly thrown in the garbage bin. It's a scourge on humanity.
So he said something offensive. Boo-hoo. Do people not remember what the 80s/90s were like? If someone or something offended you, you changed the channel or settled it with fisticuffs (supervised of course) and then moved on.
Grow up. People say mean things to other people. That doesn't mean I'm gonna go after their income and make them jobless. It's the ghouls of society who do that and they need to be held accountable.
I hated the hire and think he has a Napoleon complex, but this actually makes me want to support him more. |
Nope. Using racial slurs is a fireable offense - it's a reflection on the brand. If I used it 25 years ago and it surfaces, then I need to have done a hell of a lot if work to show that I'm no longer that guy.
Complaining about "cancel culture" is small dick energy. |
Cancel culture is BS. Racial slurs are bigger deal now than when JJ supposedly spewed them. If it was such a big deal back then she would’ve spoken up when it happened. It obviously didn’t bother her enough to do so 20 years ago.
She’s just clout chasing. |
I don't know what privileged enclave you grew up in, but you may recall that the OJ Simpson trial turned when it came out that Det. Mark Fuhrman used the N word (Fuhrman was later convicted of perjury for lying about not using it). That was in 1995.
"Cancel culture" was the norm for most of American history. People were expected to be polite and respectful. That changed - intentionally - during Reagan's 1980 Presidential campaign.
I'll stop with the History lesson and get back to hoops . . . but I have a bag full of receipts. |
I'm Indian and went to Elementary and High school during the 80s and 90s, I was called names at times, my Asian friends were called names at times, my Mexican and black friends were also called names. Nobody made a huge deal about it like they do these days.
Different times.
_________________
Previously LBJ23 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LakerFan1987
Star Player
Joined: 30 Oct 2022
Posts: 1735
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2024 8:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I am going to predict nothing happens because all this cancel culture crap is coming to end. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
paymonM
Star Player
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Posts: 4433
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2024 8:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| if he can't handle a question at a press conference before the season, what is he going to do after his first losing streak ? What a disaster |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TDRock
Retired Number
Joined: 27 May 2010
Posts: 50025
Location: LA to the Bay
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2024 8:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
SIGH talking points
Did "cancel culture" even start on this issue? This woman made a tweet I haven't heard about anything happening as far as any type of a repercussion to JJ much less canceling I mean please seriously
Can we move past buzzwords and see what actually happens? Because right now nothing is happening.
_________________
#Welp |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Lakesh0wtime
Star Player
Joined: 28 Mar 2016
Posts: 5398
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2024 9:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Cussing is normal lol.
On the other topic…crazy how it took so long for that woman to come out and say that about JJ. Wonder what the reason was?
That’s if it actually happened. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BILBJH
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jul 2020
Posts: 5250
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2024 9:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
[Political commentary deleted. -CL]
I've been called chink and chino by blacks and latinos as much as I have by white people. Most people are kind, but even though my family came here in the 19th century, I'm often treated like "the other". My grand parents and great grandparents were here before Trump's family and people still think I was born somewhere else.
But for us to come together as a country, we need to stop calling out every single mistake people make and ruining their lives.
As long as they apologize and don't continue the behavior I'm good with it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ducasse
Star Player
Joined: 05 Sep 2002
Posts: 8480
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hard_Butter
Franchise Player
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Posts: 12282
Location: The Two One Three
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2024 11:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| CamReddish wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: | | LuciusAllen wrote: | | Snipes wrote: | | Dominic1981 wrote: | Friedman is certainly a smart GM but i think most of the Dodgers success is being able to outspend almost every other team, something you can’t do in the NBA with the hard cap.
When I look at the Dodgers, I think they’ve done very well with hitting on their high draft picks (Will Smith, Seager, Bellinger, Buehler, Miller) while also signing absolute superstar free agents (Betts, Freemen, Ohtani, Yamamoto). But there’s some issues the Dodgers have mainly pitcher injuries where whatever analytics they are using to build up arms does not work at all. And small sample size of playoff games but their playoff record really isn’t good at all compared to their regular seasons |
Friedman had success with no spending in Tampa. So we can’t use that card. He came to the Dodgers and was able to implement his “nerd” along with spending. That’s why it is a perfect match. His first move was trading fan favourite Matt Kemp for a catcher. Analytics is always at the forefront - the ability to spend is just a bonus for AF.
Imagine someone like Presti with Laker resources. That’s what it is.
Dodgers were the best team in the MLB the last decade (and no it’s not the Astros because they cheated). Only 1 ring to show for it though - that’s another issue in its own. But he has put us in position to dominate year after year and the messed up part is that we are positioned to be the best team the NEXT 10 years as well. 20 years of dominance, hopefully multiple rings. Regardless of how much the Dodgers can outspend, that is an insane run. |
I agree that the Dodgers model is a great one to follow. In the big picture, they are a very good to excellent team every year. It really is hard to reasonably ask for more. Championships are hard.
Jeanie always claims something like "money is no object." But in today's NBA, roster spending is restricted. The only way you can spend without restriction is in coaching and front office infrastructure. So if money is really no object, then I think fans should hold the owner and GM accountable if they are not doing everything they can to build that infrastructure. |
What model? In MLB, there's no salary cap and no salary floor so the Dodgers could spend as much as they want and they have the third highest payroll this year. Spend more = win more. |
The model of also spending more on development staff and resources, scouts, international scouts, assistant coaches, analytics department, front office staff. They spend a ton outside of players |
It's also about spending the money wisely.
Guggenheim and Co with all their resources took over the Dodgers and kept Ned Collieti as the GM. One of the first big moves Ned pulled off was trading for AGone, Crawford, and Beckett. All huge contracts that ended up being an albatross. Friedman came in and only spent big time money on the right players. Passing on Harper in order to land Othani is just one example of that. So, this whole notion that just cause he has the money is why he's good is just ignorant
One of the best things AF has done is bringing in the reclamation projects and developing these players. All from the bargain bin..i.e. R Hill, Muncy, Wood, Ty Anderson, Paxton, etc..This all goes back to the analytics and player developmental side of things. AF has mastered what Billy Beane/DePodesta laid down.
Friedman was also the one to build the culture. One that players want to be a part of. Players around the league talk and teams build reputations. That's why guys like Betts, Freeman, and Ohtani wanted to be here.
So no, it's not just all about the money.
_________________
The butter's hard and the eggs are chillin' in the dark.
Kiss my Converse. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hard_Butter
Franchise Player
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Posts: 12282
Location: The Two One Three
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2024 12:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
| BotPoster24 wrote: |
Another reminder that we run the league. Doesn’t come out during a long and good NBA career or when he becomes one of the biggest NBA podcasters. It only drops when he becomes our coach. lol |
This reminds of Nick Young. A nobody as a Clipper but once he donned the P&G is when he got Rhianna to hollar at him.
_________________
The butter's hard and the eggs are chillin' in the dark.
Kiss my Converse. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ChefLinda
Moderator
Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 24367
Location: Boston
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2024 4:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
THERE IS NO POLITICS IN THE LOUNGE.
Please refrain from general POLITICAL commentary and references (that includes use of the terms "cancel culture," "identity politics," references to specific politicians or political groups, or political parties, "the left" "the right," etc.)
And please refrain from overt SEXIST comments.
Please refrain from making RACIST comments while trying to discuss racism.
You can discuss this issue without including an extended political Op-Ed in the Lounge. Political talk belongs in the Politics thread in the Off Topic Forum. If you can't restrain yourself, your entire post will be deleted with no notice or further warnings. Thanks.
Last edited by ChefLinda on Wed Jun 26, 2024 11:29 am; edited 7 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
