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| Trade AD or Trade for Star Player? |
| Trade AD after next season for picks, etc. |
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51% |
[ 18 ] |
| Keep AD and trade young players and picks for another star player |
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48% |
[ 17 ] |
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| Total Votes : 35 |
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JUST-MING
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
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 Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2024 5:37 am Post subject: |
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| JUST-MING wrote: | | Brawn13 wrote: | | Some must’ve forgotten the dark years pre-Lebron. |
Boston literally built their finals team in the same drafts.
Celtics - 2014 #6 Marcus Smart
Lakers - 2014 #7 Julius Randle
Celtics - 2015 #16 Terry Rozier ((4 picks in this draft))
Lakers - 2015 #2 Dangelo Russell
Celtics - 2016 #3 Jaylen Brown ((8 picks in this draft))
Lakers - 2016 #2 Brandon Ingram
Celtics - 2017 #3 Jayson Tatum ((4 picks in this draft))
Lakers - 2017 #2 Lonzo Ball
Celtics - 2018 #27 Robert Williams |
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ocho
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Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 54631
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| Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2024 5:49 am Post subject: |
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| Japago wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Quote: | | The Lakers spent 5 years rebuilding, and had 3 #2 overall picks. The Lakers weren't any closer to contending after ALL of those picks. |
How can you not see the connection between those picks and us holding up the 2020 Championship trophy? |
Those level of guys come along EVERY draft if you draft high enough.
They're NOTHING special. And, those are the level of players the Lakers were looking at "building" around until LeBron decided he wanted to become a Laker.
You can collect those after a few years. But at the end of the day, you're just waiting to get a number 1 superstar. |
LeBron doesn’t come here if we don’t have a bunch of young assets, a clean cap sheet, and picks to trade. Davis isn’t acquired without the young assets and picks. Collecting those players and holding on to our picks directly led to getting two All NBA players and raising a banner. We are an example of the power of those kinds of picks even if you aren’t directly drafting your superstar. This group has run its course and until we build back up the asset base we are just wasting time.
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Halflife
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Joined: 15 Aug 2015
Posts: 17768
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| Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2024 6:50 am Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | Japago wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Quote: | | The Lakers spent 5 years rebuilding, and had 3 #2 overall picks. The Lakers weren't any closer to contending after ALL of those picks. |
How can you not see the connection between those picks and us holding up the 2020 Championship trophy? |
Those level of guys come along EVERY draft if you draft high enough.
They're NOTHING special. And, those are the level of players the Lakers were looking at "building" around until LeBron decided he wanted to become a Laker.
You can collect those after a few years. But at the end of the day, you're just waiting to get a number 1 superstar. |
LeBron doesn’t come here if we don’t have a bunch of young assets, a clean cap sheet, and picks to trade. Davis isn’t acquired without the young assets and picks. Collecting those players and holding on to our picks directly led to getting two All NBA players and raising a banner. We are an example of the power of those kinds of picks even if you aren’t directly drafting your superstar. This group has run its course and until we build back up the asset base we are just wasting time. |
his agent said it was LA or nowhere. he acknowledged live on camera that LA was the place he needed to be to elevate his pursuits. i think it was 60min. The reality is it was more about just on the court.
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ocho
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Joined: 24 May 2005
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| Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2024 6:55 am Post subject: |
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| Halflife wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Japago wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Quote: | | The Lakers spent 5 years rebuilding, and had 3 #2 overall picks. The Lakers weren't any closer to contending after ALL of those picks. |
How can you not see the connection between those picks and us holding up the 2020 Championship trophy? |
Those level of guys come along EVERY draft if you draft high enough.
They're NOTHING special. And, those are the level of players the Lakers were looking at "building" around until LeBron decided he wanted to become a Laker.
You can collect those after a few years. But at the end of the day, you're just waiting to get a number 1 superstar. |
LeBron doesn’t come here if we don’t have a bunch of young assets, a clean cap sheet, and picks to trade. Davis isn’t acquired without the young assets and picks. Collecting those players and holding on to our picks directly led to getting two All NBA players and raising a banner. We are an example of the power of those kinds of picks even if you aren’t directly drafting your superstar. This group has run its course and until we build back up the asset base we are just wasting time. |
his agent said it was LA or nowhere. he acknowledged live on camera that LA was the place he needed to be to elevate his pursuits. i think it was 60min. The reality is it was more about just on the court. |
Being in LA was a big part of it but he’s not coming to a capped out team without assets. He also recognized we had moveable pieces to get him another ring which is exactly what happened. The same calculus informed his return to Cleveland. He was literally working with his agent to force AD’s path to the Lakers. LeBron and AD didn’t fall out of the sky. They arrived here because of years of asset accumulation. LA is a nice place to live but without building up assets and retaining picks it’s all for naught. Even if LeBron came anyway he would still be shooting dirty looks at Brandon Ingram instead of spraying AD with champagne.
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tox
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Posts: 18383
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| Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2024 7:30 am Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: |
Win totals are always relative to the strength of the conference. It doesn’t matter how many wins we have as long as there are several other teams that win more than we do. Aside from one year, we’ve been either out of playoff contention or at the bottom of it trying to scrap our way into a low seed. We can blame coaching or injuries or bad trades and some or even all of those arguments might have merit but it just means we don’t have enough to be competitive.
I disagree it’s misleading at all to say we had great health. If we can’t withstand an injury to our backup PG we aren’t that good of a team. Vando gets hurt every year. Our most important players were basically always available. Given how the last few seasons have gone (and how I anticipate the next few will go) it’s about as good as it gets health wise. We were a 7 seed and got bounced in 5 games.
The Mavs are experiencing this year what we did last year. They made some key deadline deals, caught favorable matchups, and found themselves going on a deep run. Like us, I don’t expect them to repeat it next year. They’re about to lose the Finals and are fairly locked in to a situation where they raised their floor but will find it difficult to raise their ceiling. We can keep pumping 1st round picks into the fire to try and keep it going but that’s an enormous gamble for a creaky old team like this. Especially one with a totally green coach. |
If you can put yourself in the Finals you put yourself in position to win it all. The 2022 Warriors got lucky as hell that career bricklayer Jordan Poole randomly got good for the postseason. The 2020 Lakers got lucky that Rondo made 3s at a 40% clip for the postseason as otherwise the roster spacing/ playmaking was horrendous given Vogel's inability to coach offense. The Mavs really weren't (aren't) that far from winning it all this year, and I'd take that gamble.
But I mean I get it, if I were as negative on the Lakers as you I'd probably also hold the same viewpoint |
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lakersfever714
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Joined: 05 Jan 2016
Posts: 12536
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| Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2024 7:36 am Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | Japago wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Quote: | | The Lakers spent 5 years rebuilding, and had 3 #2 overall picks. The Lakers weren't any closer to contending after ALL of those picks. |
How can you not see the connection between those picks and us holding up the 2020 Championship trophy? |
Those level of guys come along EVERY draft if you draft high enough.
They're NOTHING special. And, those are the level of players the Lakers were looking at "building" around until LeBron decided he wanted to become a Laker.
You can collect those after a few years. But at the end of the day, you're just waiting to get a number 1 superstar. |
LeBron doesn’t come here if we don’t have a bunch of young assets, a clean cap sheet, and picks to trade. Davis isn’t acquired without the young assets and picks. Collecting those players and holding on to our picks directly led to getting two All NBA players and raising a banner. We are an example of the power of those kinds of picks even if you aren’t directly drafting your superstar. This group has run its course and until we build back up the asset base we are just wasting time. |
So you think we should trade AD for draft picks so that having those draft picks would attract another player like Lebron and another superstar and we should try to win another championship that way? Interesting. 
What if we couldn't get another Lebron? Between Shaq and Lebron, that's 26 years in between when a superstar FA signed with us so we might not get another Lebron or Shaq for another 26 years.
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ocho
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| Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2024 7:44 am Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | ocho wrote: |
Win totals are always relative to the strength of the conference. It doesn’t matter how many wins we have as long as there are several other teams that win more than we do. Aside from one year, we’ve been either out of playoff contention or at the bottom of it trying to scrap our way into a low seed. We can blame coaching or injuries or bad trades and some or even all of those arguments might have merit but it just means we don’t have enough to be competitive.
I disagree it’s misleading at all to say we had great health. If we can’t withstand an injury to our backup PG we aren’t that good of a team. Vando gets hurt every year. Our most important players were basically always available. Given how the last few seasons have gone (and how I anticipate the next few will go) it’s about as good as it gets health wise. We were a 7 seed and got bounced in 5 games.
The Mavs are experiencing this year what we did last year. They made some key deadline deals, caught favorable matchups, and found themselves going on a deep run. Like us, I don’t expect them to repeat it next year. They’re about to lose the Finals and are fairly locked in to a situation where they raised their floor but will find it difficult to raise their ceiling. We can keep pumping 1st round picks into the fire to try and keep it going but that’s an enormous gamble for a creaky old team like this. Especially one with a totally green coach. |
If you can put yourself in the Finals you put yourself in position to win it all. The 2022 Warriors got lucky as hell that career bricklayer Jordan Poole randomly got good for the postseason. The 2020 Lakers got lucky that Rondo made 3s at a 40% clip for the postseason as otherwise the roster spacing/ playmaking was horrendous given Vogel's inability to coach offense. The Mavs really weren't (aren't) that far from winning it all this year, and I'd take that gamble.
But I mean I get it, if I were as negative on the Lakers as you I'd probably also hold the same viewpoint |
Do the Mavs feel like they’re in position to win it to you? Their season likely ends tonight. Would you bet on them winning this series? Would you bet on them being back in the Finals next year? I highly doubt it.
In reality we haven’t been anywhere near the Finals since the championship year. We won two series last year on very favorable matchups and the second we ran into a real contender we got swept. The rest of the time we’ve been eliminated in the first round or missing the playoffs entirely. This sounds like a contender to you? Like a project worthy of even further investment as LeBron turns 40? Since LeBron signed here we have shipped out countless players, fired multiple coaches, and sent away 6 1st round picks and 2 swaps keeping this thing going and what we have to show for it is a 7 seed and a 1st round exit. We really want to burn MORE future 1sts (to be paid when LeBron is long gone) on this?
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ocho
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Joined: 24 May 2005
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| Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2024 7:49 am Post subject: |
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| lakersfever714 wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Japago wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Quote: | | The Lakers spent 5 years rebuilding, and had 3 #2 overall picks. The Lakers weren't any closer to contending after ALL of those picks. |
How can you not see the connection between those picks and us holding up the 2020 Championship trophy? |
Those level of guys come along EVERY draft if you draft high enough.
They're NOTHING special. And, those are the level of players the Lakers were looking at "building" around until LeBron decided he wanted to become a Laker.
You can collect those after a few years. But at the end of the day, you're just waiting to get a number 1 superstar. |
LeBron doesn’t come here if we don’t have a bunch of young assets, a clean cap sheet, and picks to trade. Davis isn’t acquired without the young assets and picks. Collecting those players and holding on to our picks directly led to getting two All NBA players and raising a banner. We are an example of the power of those kinds of picks even if you aren’t directly drafting your superstar. This group has run its course and until we build back up the asset base we are just wasting time. |
So you think we should trade AD for draft picks so that having those draft picks would attract another player like Lebron and another superstar and we should try to win another championship that way? Interesting.
What if we couldn't get another Lebron? Between Shaq and Lebron, that's 26 years in between when a superstar FA signed with us so we might not get another Lebron or Shaq for another 26 years. |
There’s more than one way to skin a cat. You can accumulate draft picks and use them. You can trade them. You can do a mix of both. I’m not that concerned with a superstar eventually deciding they’d like to play for the Lakers in LA. Maybe they don’t need to attract one and they draft them. Maybe they do a trade. It doesn’t have to come from Free Agency. What I do know is this current setup isn’t working. We can recognize that and cut our losses or keep digging. If you're worried about a long drought just wait until our draft is screwed until 2030.
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tox
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Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 18383
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| Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2024 7:55 am Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | tox wrote: | | ocho wrote: |
Win totals are always relative to the strength of the conference. It doesn’t matter how many wins we have as long as there are several other teams that win more than we do. Aside from one year, we’ve been either out of playoff contention or at the bottom of it trying to scrap our way into a low seed. We can blame coaching or injuries or bad trades and some or even all of those arguments might have merit but it just means we don’t have enough to be competitive.
I disagree it’s misleading at all to say we had great health. If we can’t withstand an injury to our backup PG we aren’t that good of a team. Vando gets hurt every year. Our most important players were basically always available. Given how the last few seasons have gone (and how I anticipate the next few will go) it’s about as good as it gets health wise. We were a 7 seed and got bounced in 5 games.
The Mavs are experiencing this year what we did last year. They made some key deadline deals, caught favorable matchups, and found themselves going on a deep run. Like us, I don’t expect them to repeat it next year. They’re about to lose the Finals and are fairly locked in to a situation where they raised their floor but will find it difficult to raise their ceiling. We can keep pumping 1st round picks into the fire to try and keep it going but that’s an enormous gamble for a creaky old team like this. Especially one with a totally green coach. |
If you can put yourself in the Finals you put yourself in position to win it all. The 2022 Warriors got lucky as hell that career bricklayer Jordan Poole randomly got good for the postseason. The 2020 Lakers got lucky that Rondo made 3s at a 40% clip for the postseason as otherwise the roster spacing/ playmaking was horrendous given Vogel's inability to coach offense. The Mavs really weren't (aren't) that far from winning it all this year, and I'd take that gamble.
But I mean I get it, if I were as negative on the Lakers as you I'd probably also hold the same viewpoint |
Do the Mavs feel like they’re in position to win it to you? Their season likely ends tonight. Would you bet on them winning this series? Would you bet on them being back in the Finals next year? I highly doubt it.
In reality we haven’t been anywhere near the Finals since the championship year. We won two series last year on very favorable matchups and the second we ran into a real contender we got swept. The rest of the time we’ve been eliminated in the first round or missing the playoffs entirely. This sounds like a contender to you? Like a project worthy of even further investment as LeBron turns 40? Since LeBron signed here we have shipped out countless players, fired multiple coaches, and sent away 6 1st round picks and 2 swaps keeping this thing going and what we have to show for it is a 7 seed and a 1st round exit. We really want to burn MORE future 1sts (to be paid when LeBron is long gone) on this? |
If the Mavericks hit some 3s in Game 2, sure they could've won that game. Then it's 2-2 and Porzingis is really injured. That's kind of my point, we live in a high variance NBA. The Celtics simply give themselves so many bites at the pie that they'll eventually win one. So yeah, the Mavericks easily could've won this year. They won't, but they could've.
I didn't say to burn multiple 1sts to compete. I'm not sure what smart trades are available (Rob can actually be good at these). I'm not sure what impactful vet min FAs will be available. I'm just going to acknowledge that if you can get to a high enough level (I don't think the Lakers are there yet but they could get there) then with some favorable variance you can win absolutely win it all. If the coaching is panning out and the Lakers are in the 49-53ish win pace, then sure I think it's reasonable to try to improve on top of that with future draft capital to get to the real elite level. If they're at the 40-44 win pace, then sure maybe it's time to let this partnership die. |
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ocho
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Joined: 24 May 2005
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| Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2024 8:07 am Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | tox wrote: | | ocho wrote: |
Win totals are always relative to the strength of the conference. It doesn’t matter how many wins we have as long as there are several other teams that win more than we do. Aside from one year, we’ve been either out of playoff contention or at the bottom of it trying to scrap our way into a low seed. We can blame coaching or injuries or bad trades and some or even all of those arguments might have merit but it just means we don’t have enough to be competitive.
I disagree it’s misleading at all to say we had great health. If we can’t withstand an injury to our backup PG we aren’t that good of a team. Vando gets hurt every year. Our most important players were basically always available. Given how the last few seasons have gone (and how I anticipate the next few will go) it’s about as good as it gets health wise. We were a 7 seed and got bounced in 5 games.
The Mavs are experiencing this year what we did last year. They made some key deadline deals, caught favorable matchups, and found themselves going on a deep run. Like us, I don’t expect them to repeat it next year. They’re about to lose the Finals and are fairly locked in to a situation where they raised their floor but will find it difficult to raise their ceiling. We can keep pumping 1st round picks into the fire to try and keep it going but that’s an enormous gamble for a creaky old team like this. Especially one with a totally green coach. |
If you can put yourself in the Finals you put yourself in position to win it all. The 2022 Warriors got lucky as hell that career bricklayer Jordan Poole randomly got good for the postseason. The 2020 Lakers got lucky that Rondo made 3s at a 40% clip for the postseason as otherwise the roster spacing/ playmaking was horrendous given Vogel's inability to coach offense. The Mavs really weren't (aren't) that far from winning it all this year, and I'd take that gamble.
But I mean I get it, if I were as negative on the Lakers as you I'd probably also hold the same viewpoint |
Do the Mavs feel like they’re in position to win it to you? Their season likely ends tonight. Would you bet on them winning this series? Would you bet on them being back in the Finals next year? I highly doubt it.
In reality we haven’t been anywhere near the Finals since the championship year. We won two series last year on very favorable matchups and the second we ran into a real contender we got swept. The rest of the time we’ve been eliminated in the first round or missing the playoffs entirely. This sounds like a contender to you? Like a project worthy of even further investment as LeBron turns 40? Since LeBron signed here we have shipped out countless players, fired multiple coaches, and sent away 6 1st round picks and 2 swaps keeping this thing going and what we have to show for it is a 7 seed and a 1st round exit. We really want to burn MORE future 1sts (to be paid when LeBron is long gone) on this? |
If the Mavericks hit some 3s in Game 2, sure they could've won that game. Then it's 2-2 and Porzingis is really injured. That's kind of my point, we live in a high variance NBA. The Celtics simply give themselves so many bites at the pie that they'll eventually win one. So yeah, the Mavericks easily could've won this year. They won't, but they could've.
I didn't say to burn multiple 1sts to compete. I'm not sure what smart trades are available (Rob can actually be good at these). I'm not sure what impactful vet min FAs will be available. I'm just going to acknowledge that if you can get to a high enough level (I don't think the Lakers are there yet but they could get there) then with some favorable variance you can win absolutely win it all. If the coaching is panning out and the Lakers are in the 49-53ish win pace, then sure I think it's reasonable to try to improve on top of that with future draft capital to get to the real elite level. If they're at the 40-44 win pace, then sure maybe it's time to let this partnership die. |
We are talking about things that could have happened but didn’t. The Mavs are overachieving and got dealt a lucky hand but luck runs out as it did for us last year and as it is for Dallas now. I think we both have real doubts about them repeating this run. Hoping to strike lightning a few times over the course of a few weeks is a risky endeavor and one not likely to yield success.
I think we have a large enough sample size since the Championship year that this isn’t working out. Sure, if we can make upgrade trades without using valuable 1sts that would be great but I’m skeptical of that being realistic. We could very well be losing DLo for nothing. We’re doing another soft reset with a new coach who has no experience. The way I see it is the rebuild is only a couple years away anyway. Why not get out ahead of it? It’s a moot point. They’ll keep going for it, which I think is more a function of Pelinka’s self-preservation than a genuine belief that we are close. When the rebuild comes though we sure are going to wish we had some of those picks back.
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Halflife
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Joined: 15 Aug 2015
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| Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2024 8:32 am Post subject: |
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Mavs have Luka.
We need to rebuild. Okc, mavs, nuggs, wolves are way out of range. Grizz will be better and when Ja was healthy we didn’t have anything for them. Rox will be on the upswing with youth and aggressive coach.
We will be older and need pristine health from our 2 guys just to make playin.
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defense
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| Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2024 8:42 am Post subject: |
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These 2 "options" feel like modern day democracy. Give the people 2 terrible options and then tell them... "you have a choice".
I refuse to answer until I get an "other" option |
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TooMuchMajicBuss
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| Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2024 9:20 am Post subject: |
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My choice is firmly "None of the above"
There may come a time where those two options are clearly the only viable options we have. Now is not that time. |
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jodeke
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Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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| Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2024 9:42 am Post subject: |
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If you can find someone to take the contracts, trade Bron and AD. If I have it right that would create enough cap space to get quality players and develop a young roster. Bite a 3 year bullet and look to the future. I keep bringing up the hated Celtics but they presented a template. Patience is key.
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JUST-MING
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| Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2024 9:44 am Post subject: |
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| Runway8 wrote: | | I would need to know what's going to happen to the gigantic elephant in the room. |
It looks like he’s opting out and signing with Philadelphia. |
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tox
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| Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2024 10:05 am Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: |
We are talking about things that could have happened but didn’t. The Mavs are overachieving and got dealt a lucky hand but luck runs out as it did for us last year and as it is for Dallas now. I think we both have real doubts about them repeating this run. Hoping to strike lightning a few times over the course of a few weeks is a risky endeavor and one not likely to yield success.
I think we have a large enough sample size since the Championship year that this isn’t working out. Sure, if we can make upgrade trades without using valuable 1sts that would be great but I’m skeptical of that being realistic. We could very well be losing DLo for nothing. We’re doing another soft reset with a new coach who has no experience. The way I see it is the rebuild is only a couple years away anyway. Why not get out ahead of it? It’s a moot point. They’ll keep going for it, which I think is more a function of Pelinka’s self-preservation than a genuine belief that we are close. When the rebuild comes though we sure are going to wish we had some of those picks back. |
Every team that is winning the championship is getting a lucky hand in some way or another. 2019 Raptors had injuries + Kawhi hitting a shot he could've easily missed. 2020 Lakers had Rondo getting hot to buoy an otherwise toilet bowl-esque clogged offense (not to mention the Clippers, probably their stiffest competition, choking). 2022 Warriors had confirmed scrub Jordan Poole play at an all-star level. 2024 Celtics had the easiest route to the NBA Finals ever.
I agree the Mavs mostly got to the Finals through flukey shooting. But my argument is they could easily have won it all with flukey shooting, nothing was written in stone about the Mavs' shooting luck running out.
In any case I don't think we necessarily disagree on what the Lakers should do (i.e. not mortgage the future except for a bonafide star) besides your desire to proactively start the rebuild and me wanting to give this partnership one more year. |
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ocho
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| Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2024 10:34 am Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | ocho wrote: |
We are talking about things that could have happened but didn’t. The Mavs are overachieving and got dealt a lucky hand but luck runs out as it did for us last year and as it is for Dallas now. I think we both have real doubts about them repeating this run. Hoping to strike lightning a few times over the course of a few weeks is a risky endeavor and one not likely to yield success.
I think we have a large enough sample size since the Championship year that this isn’t working out. Sure, if we can make upgrade trades without using valuable 1sts that would be great but I’m skeptical of that being realistic. We could very well be losing DLo for nothing. We’re doing another soft reset with a new coach who has no experience. The way I see it is the rebuild is only a couple years away anyway. Why not get out ahead of it? It’s a moot point. They’ll keep going for it, which I think is more a function of Pelinka’s self-preservation than a genuine belief that we are close. When the rebuild comes though we sure are going to wish we had some of those picks back. |
Every team that is winning the championship is getting a lucky hand in some way or another. 2019 Raptors had injuries + Kawhi hitting a shot he could've easily missed. 2020 Lakers had Rondo getting hot to buoy an otherwise toilet bowl-esque clogged offense (not to mention the Clippers, probably their stiffest competition, choking). 2022 Warriors had confirmed scrub Jordan Poole play at an all-star level. 2024 Celtics had the easiest route to the NBA Finals ever.
I agree the Mavs mostly got to the Finals through flukey shooting. But my argument is they could easily have won it all with flukey shooting, nothing was written in stone about the Mavs' shooting luck running out.
In any case I don't think we necessarily disagree on what the Lakers should do (i.e. not mortgage the future except for a bonafide star) besides your desire to proactively start the rebuild and me wanting to give this partnership one more year. |
Fair enough. I do think there’s a difference between the 2020 Lakers being the best team all season and benefiting from some lucky Rondo shooting that helped them cross the finish line and a perennial 7 seed needing a tremendous amount of lucky breaks just to compete. The Raptors definitely don’t win the championship without multiple season ending injuries to multiple stars in the Finals. That was a pretty unprecedented amount of luck and not something to count on, and they didn’t mortgage their future to get in that position.
I’ll reserve judgment until after the summer dust settles but I’m seriously concerned about Rob’s self preservation instincts.
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Balto
Starting Rotation
Joined: 25 Jun 2019
Posts: 637
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| Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2024 10:49 am Post subject: |
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Trade AD to Philly for 5 1sts
Let Bron walk and join AD in Philly
Then trade for Mitchell+Allen and start to rebuild. |
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tox
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 18383
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| Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2024 10:50 am Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | tox wrote: | | ocho wrote: |
We are talking about things that could have happened but didn’t. The Mavs are overachieving and got dealt a lucky hand but luck runs out as it did for us last year and as it is for Dallas now. I think we both have real doubts about them repeating this run. Hoping to strike lightning a few times over the course of a few weeks is a risky endeavor and one not likely to yield success.
I think we have a large enough sample size since the Championship year that this isn’t working out. Sure, if we can make upgrade trades without using valuable 1sts that would be great but I’m skeptical of that being realistic. We could very well be losing DLo for nothing. We’re doing another soft reset with a new coach who has no experience. The way I see it is the rebuild is only a couple years away anyway. Why not get out ahead of it? It’s a moot point. They’ll keep going for it, which I think is more a function of Pelinka’s self-preservation than a genuine belief that we are close. When the rebuild comes though we sure are going to wish we had some of those picks back. |
Every team that is winning the championship is getting a lucky hand in some way or another. 2019 Raptors had injuries + Kawhi hitting a shot he could've easily missed. 2020 Lakers had Rondo getting hot to buoy an otherwise toilet bowl-esque clogged offense (not to mention the Clippers, probably their stiffest competition, choking). 2022 Warriors had confirmed scrub Jordan Poole play at an all-star level. 2024 Celtics had the easiest route to the NBA Finals ever.
I agree the Mavs mostly got to the Finals through flukey shooting. But my argument is they could easily have won it all with flukey shooting, nothing was written in stone about the Mavs' shooting luck running out.
In any case I don't think we necessarily disagree on what the Lakers should do (i.e. not mortgage the future except for a bonafide star) besides your desire to proactively start the rebuild and me wanting to give this partnership one more year. |
Fair enough. I do think there’s a difference between the 2020 Lakers being the best team all season and benefiting from some lucky Rondo shooting that helped them cross the finish line and a perennial 7 seed needing a tremendous amount of lucky breaks just to compete. The Raptors definitely don’t win the championship without multiple season ending injuries to multiple stars in the Finals. That was a pretty unprecedented amount of luck and not something to count on, and they didn’t mortgage their future to get in that position.
I’ll reserve judgment until after the summer dust settles but I’m seriously concerned about Rob’s self preservation instincts. |
Right, that's an extremely important distinction. It's why my argument is that I need Rob to show me he can get enough smart signings, trades, and draft picks -- and nail the coaching -- to show this is a ~50 win pace team before we decide to mortgage future pieces to get over the hump. That also means injury luck -- if LeBron hurts his groin on Game 11, it doesn't really matter what the Lakers did otherwise. At that point I'm open to an AD trade as well.
re: Rob's self-preservation instincts... maybe, but him not making a trade at the deadline this year was at least one welcome sign that he finally has some longer term thinking |
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JUST-MING
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 44528
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| Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2024 10:52 am Post subject: |
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| Balto wrote: | Trade AD to Philly for 5 1sts
Let Bron walk and join AD in Philly
Then trade for Mitchell+Allen and start to rebuild. |
I’d rather have Detroit’s draft picks.
23 year old Cade Cunningham (#19 PG/SG), 21 year old Jalen Duren (#19 PF/C), Evan Fournier’s $20 million expiring contract, and 5 first round picks. |
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ocho
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Joined: 24 May 2005
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| Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2024 11:13 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | re: Rob's self-preservation instincts... maybe, but him not making a trade at the deadline this year was at least one welcome sign that he finally has some longer term thinking |
Yes and no. He didn’t give anyone away, which is good. But he was trying to trade DLo, JHS, and a future 1st for Murray which is kind of a bad deal. Understandable, but not great. Pelinka has been somewhat limited in what he can offer. If he had more picks to throw in on a Murray deal would he have done it? Hes got 3 to spend now.
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PNWlakers
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Joined: 03 Jun 2005
Posts: 807
Location: PDX
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| Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2024 11:18 am Post subject: |
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| JUST-MING wrote: | | Balto wrote: | Trade AD to Philly for 5 1sts
Let Bron walk and join AD in Philly
Then trade for Mitchell+Allen and start to rebuild. |
I’d rather have Detroit’s draft picks.
23 year old Cade Cunningham (#19 PG/SG), 21 year old Jalen Duren (#19 PF/C), Evan Fournier’s $20 million expiring contract, and 5 first round picks. |
are we just throwing names out there now? Why would DET do this?
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Balto
Starting Rotation
Joined: 25 Jun 2019
Posts: 637
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| Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2024 11:23 am Post subject: |
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| JUST-MING wrote: | | Balto wrote: | Trade AD to Philly for 5 1sts
Let Bron walk and join AD in Philly
Then trade for Mitchell+Allen and start to rebuild. |
I’d rather have Detroit’s draft picks.
23 year old Cade Cunningham (#19 PG/SG), 21 year old Jalen Duren (#19 PF/C), Evan Fournier’s $20 million expiring contract, and 5 first round picks. |
We all know how AD can play hardball to get what he wants....Why would he want to go to the Pistons?
Also why would Detroit trade for AD when they are rebuilding?
I'd say Philly does it to make a run at a Chip because they no if they trade for AD, Bron will sign with them in FA. AD finally gets to play the 4 haha
Embiid
AD
Bron
Maxey
I'd ask for every 1st Philly can trade and see if they bite! |
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A Mad Chinaman
Star Player
Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Posts: 6250
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| Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2024 11:41 am Post subject: |
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Would Laker fans and anybody else tolerate a complete rebuild in LaLaLand
Nope
Nope
Nope |
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jodeke
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Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 68576
Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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| Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2024 11:59 am Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | Quote: | | re: Rob's self-preservation instincts... maybe, but him not making a trade at the deadline this year was at least one welcome sign that he finally has some longer term thinking |
Yes and no. He didn’t give anyone away, which is good. But he was trying to trade DLo, JHS, and a future 1st for Murray which is kind of a bad deal. Understandable, but not great. Pelinka has been somewhat limited in what he can offer. If he had more picks to throw in on a Murray deal would he have done it? Hes got 3 to spend now. |
He has the chips, Bron&AD. Does he have the pelotes? Bron is on the downside of his career and AD is fragile. I understand loyalty but basketball is also a business and business is business.
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