Boston could certainly get 2-3 more rings out of this group. It will depend on if the Knicks and Nuggets can make a push to knock them off. Tatum/Brown/Porzingis/Holiday/White is a phenomenal foundation.
Blame the Nets for trading 4 firsts for Garnett/Pierce. That set the Celtics up for this
What you’re saying may become true…it certainly looks like a possibility…but you cannot give them credit for something they have not yet earned. They have just now matched the Lakers success of the 4 straight lottery drafts with 1 ship despite having all those picks from the Garnett/Pierce trade. The Lakers did not having a similar advantage of a big trade of old stars netting multiple draft picks. The Keltics had a much bigger advantage yet only have 1 ship from those tanking years…same as the Lakers…so as of now the Lakers have outperformed them and they Keltics have been disappointing due to the advantage they had.
The Lakers beat Garnett/Pierce, then Keltics went into rebuild mode when they traded them for multiple picks whereas the Lakers didn’t get assets back from their entrance into rebuild mode, Dwight left for nothing, Nash and Kobe retired. The Lakers didn’t get a cache of draft picks yet they still won a ship BEFORE the Keltics and both Clubs now have 1 to show for the tanking. It may change in the future if the current Foston team becomes a dynasty and if current Laker team doesn’t get their act together, but for now Buck Foston! The Lakers have had just as many ships since beating them in 2010 even tho the Kectics had a major advantage getting multiple draft picks going into their rebuild while the Lakers did not.
you can't just view everything in a vaccum and count how many chips both teams had since 2010. it's lot more than that. not to mention the one Laker got was a Covid tournament title. Celtics has been in the playoff and are considered as title contender year in and year out after 2010. Lakers on the other hand got lucky when LeBron decided to join a trash Laker squad in 2018 for personal reason. you can't compare planning with luck. Celtics have a plan and they have sticked to it and now they're being rewarded. Lakers on the other hand have always look for shortcuts, hoping to land another LeBron without giving out much. you just can't compare the two franchise at this point.
Plus the Celtics have won a ton more games than the Lakers since 2011. Even if they weren’t winning a title, they’ve been an above average team most of Brad Stevens time there.
The Lakers have mostly been mediocre or bad since Kobe/Pau were in their decline years.
Under no measure have the Celtics outperformed the Lakers over the last 14+ years
Those last Kobe years were torture. That showed me how inept and cheap the Lakers FO are. Though some of those seasons, Kobe was hurt, the players they had on those rosters were being pathetic. And how was that ok?
27 wins in 2013/2014
21 wins in 2014/2015
17 wins in 2015/2016
26 wins in 2016/2017
35 wins in 2017/2018
This is when I wish we had a stronger ownership and stronger front office. I would love to see Bob Myers here. Someone with a vision and a team to execute. The Rob and Jeanie shows is not creative enough to think outside the box.
The Lakers had a dismal spell of 6 years that they missed the playoffs (2013-14 to 2018-19), averaging 27.2 wins per season.
No patience for developing young talent, but the fact that the Lakers hang on to a washed up Kobe for 3 more seasons was absurd. Of course from a business point of view, he should be kept for selling tickets and jerseys, but from a winning point of view, he contributed to nothing (missed most of 2013-14 and 2014-15, and contributed to 17 wins in 2015-16). Did the Lakers expect a player recovering from a torn Achilles tendon to compete for a championship? They were lucky if he could suit up for 60 games in a season.
Hate the Celtics, but they have good character guys on the team at the moment. Holiday, Porzingis, Tatum, Al. All of these guys are good solid character guys that seem to put the team first. Hate the Celtics, but unlike the Paul Piece/KG era, I actually feel they were the best team all year and had the most cohesion and roster balance. It sucks but they deserved it.
None of that fake toughness about them like with the KG/Pierce era. Wheelchair Paul? Come on. Doc's whining? Ugh. The team was horrendous group of charachters. This Celtics team is a model of teamwork and cohesion. Porzingis risking his career on healthy leg that needs surgery? That's what teamwork is all about. Hate them because it's Boston C's with the green, but they had the right culture and great GM in Stevens. Pelinka could take a few notes from Stevens on how to actually roster build with some core continuity.
Very well stated as usual.
I am a Celtics hater as a loyal Laker fan. But this group of Celtics definitely is less irritating than the Paul Pierce/KG Teams or the Bird/McHale Teams.
Jaylen Brown for instance is not only a great player, but a class act. He has improved every year in the league and obviously has put in the work on his body and game.
I also like with the Celtics how you don't hear all the BS about "who's team" it is. Tatum and Brown share the spotlight, don't seem jealous of one another and don't have all the ego BS like some other teams including ours where we have guys worried about "who's team" it is.
For example, at the end of a close game, you know the Lakers are going to have LeBron take the final shot because it is "his team" so getting a good shot isn't as important as LeBron shooting the shot.
Meanwhile with the Celtics, they will move the ball and any of their 5 players could end up taking the last shot which will likely be a good shot instead of an ego driven bad shot.
Guys like White, Holiday, Horford, Porzingis, Hauser, Pritchard all fit their roles perfectly and all play hard on both ends of the court with a team mindset.
I am disappointed the Celtics won, but I have to admit I admire the team they have put together and the brand of basketball they play. _________________ Love, Laker Lanny
Hate the Celtics, but they have good character guys on the team at the moment. Holiday, Porzingis, Tatum, Al. All of these guys are good solid character guys that seem to put the team first. Hate the Celtics, but unlike the Paul Piece/KG era, I actually feel they were the best team all year and had the most cohesion and roster balance. It sucks but they deserved it.
None of that fake toughness about them like with the KG/Pierce era. Wheelchair Paul? Come on. Doc's whining? Ugh. The team was horrendous group of charachters. This Celtics team is a model of teamwork and cohesion. Porzingis risking his career on healthy leg that needs surgery? That's what teamwork is all about. Hate them because it's Boston C's with the green, but they had the right culture and great GM in Stevens. Pelinka could take a few notes from Stevens on how to actually roster build with some core continuity.
Very well stated as usual.
I am a Celtics hater as a loyal Laker fan. But this group of Celtics definitely is less irritating than the Paul Pierce/KG Teams or the Bird/McHale Teams.
Jaylen Brown for instance is not only a great player, but a class act. He has improved every year in the league and obviously has put in the work on his body and game.
I also like with the Celtics how you don't hear all the BS about "who's team" it is. Tatum and Brown share the spotlight, don't seem jealous of one another and don't have all the ego BS like some other teams including ours where we have guys worried about "who's team" it is.
For example, at the end of a close game, you know the Lakers are going to have LeBron take the final shot because it is "his team" so getting a good shot isn't as important as LeBron shooting the shot.
Meanwhile with the Celtics, they will move the ball and any of their 5 players could end up taking the last shot which will likely be a good shot instead of an ego driven bad shot.
Guys like White, Holiday, Horford, Porzingis, Hauser, Pritchard all fit their roles perfectly and all play hard on both ends of the court with a team mindset.
I am disappointed the Celtics won, but I have to admit I admire the team they have put together and the brand of basketball they play.
Part of it is that Tatum and Brown aren't really MVP level players so it makes sense that they don't have MVP level egos. (But the media builds up Tatum in a way that puts him in that conversation, so I actually think it's a major credit to Tatum that he is such a humble person.)
If this roster & FO were in, say, Indiana I'd be pretty happy with them winning. Well-constructed team from a savvy FO, likable players. Their two stars are home grown. Unfortunately they're in Boston so I have to hate them
Hate the Celtics, but they have good character guys on the team at the moment. Holiday, Porzingis, Tatum, Al. All of these guys are good solid character guys that seem to put the team first. Hate the Celtics, but unlike the Paul Piece/KG era, I actually feel they were the best team all year and had the most cohesion and roster balance. It sucks but they deserved it.
None of that fake toughness about them like with the KG/Pierce era. Wheelchair Paul? Come on. Doc's whining? Ugh. The team was horrendous group of charachters. This Celtics team is a model of teamwork and cohesion. Porzingis risking his career on healthy leg that needs surgery? That's what teamwork is all about. Hate them because it's Boston C's with the green, but they had the right culture and great GM in Stevens. Pelinka could take a few notes from Stevens on how to actually roster build with some core continuity.
Very well stated as usual.
I am a Celtics hater as a loyal Laker fan. But this group of Celtics definitely is less irritating than the Paul Pierce/KG Teams or the Bird/McHale Teams.
Jaylen Brown for instance is not only a great player, but a class act. He has improved every year in the league and obviously has put in the work on his body and game.
I also like with the Celtics how you don't hear all the BS about "who's team" it is. Tatum and Brown share the spotlight, don't seem jealous of one another and don't have all the ego BS like some other teams including ours where we have guys worried about "who's team" it is.
For example, at the end of a close game, you know the Lakers are going to have LeBron take the final shot because it is "his team" so getting a good shot isn't as important as LeBron shooting the shot.
Meanwhile with the Celtics, they will move the ball and any of their 5 players could end up taking the last shot which will likely be a good shot instead of an ego driven bad shot.
Guys like White, Holiday, Horford, Porzingis, Hauser, Pritchard all fit their roles perfectly and all play hard on both ends of the court with a team mindset.
I am disappointed the Celtics won, but I have to admit I admire the team they have put together and the brand of basketball they play.
Part of it is that Tatum and Brown aren't really MVP level players so it makes sense that they don't have MVP level egos. (But the media builds up Tatum in a way that puts him in that conversation, so I actually think it's a major credit to Tatum that he is such a humble person.)
If this roster & FO were in, say, Indiana I'd be pretty happy with them winning. Well-constructed team from a savvy FO, likable players. Their two stars are home grown. Unfortunately they're in Boston so I have to hate them
It's a testament to the framework Brad Stevens implemented in the last 2-3 seasons. He's gaming the analytics and spacing meta like no other, resulting in one of the strongest finals teams in years. Even the Warriors, who leaned heavily on analytics, did not put a premium on stretch 5s the way the Celtics do (Horford, Porzingis, Muscala, etc). If Porzingis was around for them in 2022, Warriors simply don't win that year.
Additionally, when your "top 2" guys can put up mediocre scoring numbers and well below league average shooting percentages, and still decisively win, it means that there are contingency plans and failsafes in place. Jrue was an absolute beast in the playoffs defensively. Porzingis made defenses pay for collapsing the paint. Derrick White brought all the intangibles. I hate Portland and Washington for being so dumb. We all know Pop gifted them White, too.
I don't think this would have been possible with Ainge, even despite his solid drafting. Brad was the one who put them over the top. With Ainge, I'm sure he would have gone after a third star and found some way to quash Brad Stevens' formula. _________________ Yi Jianlian Fanboy. Respect The Chair.
Starting anew. I'm retiring my main.
Part of it is that Tatum and Brown aren't really MVP level players so it makes sense that they don't have MVP level egos. (But the media builds up Tatum in a way that puts him in that conversation, so I actually think it's a major credit to Tatum that he is such a humble person.)
If this roster & FO were in, say, Indiana I'd be pretty happy with them winning. Well-constructed team from a savvy FO, likable players. Their two stars are home grown. Unfortunately they're in Boston so I have to hate them
It's a testament to the framework Brad Stevens implemented in the last 2-3 seasons. He's gaming the analytics and spacing meta like no other, resulting in one of the strongest finals teams in years. Even the Warriors, who leaned heavily on analytics, did not put a premium on stretch 5s the way the Celtics do (Horford, Porzingis, Muscala, etc). If Porzingis was around for them in 2022, Warriors simply don't win that year.
Additionally, when your "top 2" guys can put up mediocre scoring numbers and well below league average shooting percentages, and still decisively win, it means that there are contingency plans and failsafes in place. Jrue was an absolute beast in the playoffs defensively. Porzingis made defenses pay for collapsing the paint. Derrick White brought all the intangibles. I hate Portland and Washington for being so dumb. We all know Pop gifted them White, too.
I don't think this would have been possible with Ainge, even despite his solid drafting. Brad was the one who put them over the top. With Ainge, I'm sure he would have gone after a third star and found some way to quash Brad Stevens' formula.
Yeah, for sure. Brad has a great vision but also executed some great trades. The Derrick White trade was masterful in retrospect. Porzingis/Jrue were obviously excellent trades the year of. I haven't looked into it, but I bet the Celtics still have assets, too.
I'd also add that the Celtics benefit from a lot of tailwinds. Tatum just happened to not hit his 3rd contract (which will really hamstring the Celtics when Brown/Tatum are making ~$110M combined, even if the cap is going up 10%) plus the second apron hasn't been instated yet, allowing them to make those trades. And, of course, most important is benefitting from playing the horrible, horrible Eastern Conference. Swap the Nuggets & Celtics' conferences and I'm pretty sure the Nuggets are B2B champions, as they used the EC playoffs to rest up and heal any nagging injuries (see: Murray, Jamal)
(I don't know how but the Silver HAS to do something about the East-West imbalance. I was born in 1994. I lived in Chicago from '96-'00 so I have the faintest recollection of Jordan, but for basically my entire life I have only known a pathetic Eastern Conference. It's ridiculous.)
One of the most underrated things in the NBA right now on title teams is how the C is spacing the floor.
2019 - Marc Gasol spaces the floor for the Raptors.
2020 - AD floor spaces, we played big and less spacing with AD at the 4, Howard, but overall at the important death or in a lot of games we went with AD who at the time was shooting 35+% from 3. Denver series isn't won without AD shooting that 3 ball well.
2021- BroLo at the 5. Believe Portis was coming in backing him up.
2022 - Warriors small ball, but they have always been an exception to needing size due to their once in a lifetime perimeter shooting strength of Steph/Klay/Durant or someone else in that SF role. Plus Dray gives them a lot of perimeter passing and driving skill at the 5 when he's there.
2023 - Nuggets with Joker.
2024 - Cs with Porzingis/Horford.
Your 5 giving you spacing + size is a premium high value asset right now. Unfortunately we had a great great shot at Myles Turner in 2022 and let it go. Very foolish. Myles, AD, Rui would have set up our front court for years beyond Lebron.
The Celtics with Porzingis and Horford, having to not deal with Marcus Smart's suspect outside shooting could put forward lineups that not only defended well, but also spaced the floor for Tatum/Brown in a way that we just never have been able to do for Lebron/AD. Pelinka is just not a good GM. Keep saying it. Getting talent is not that hard in the NBA. Pelinka is good at getting talent. He's really bad at making the parts fit.
One of the most underrated things in the NBA right now on title teams is how the C is spacing the floor.
2019 - Marc Gasol spaces the floor for the Raptors.
2020 - AD floor spaces, we played big and less spacing with AD at the 4, Howard, but overall at the important death or in a lot of games we went with AD who at the time was shooting 35+% from 3. Denver series isn't won without AD shooting that 3 ball well.
2021- BroLo at the 5. Believe Portis was coming in backing him up.
2022 - Warriors small ball, but they have always been an exception to needing size due to their once in a lifetime perimeter shooting strength of Steph/Klay/Durant or someone else in that SF role. Plus Dray gives them a lot of perimeter passing and driving skill at the 5 when he's there.
2023 - Nuggets with Joker.
2024 - Cs with Porzingis/Horford.
Your 5 giving you spacing + size is a premium high value asset right now. Unfortunately we had a great great shot at Myles Turner in 2022 and let it go. Very foolish. Myles, AD, Rui would have set up our front court for years beyond Lebron.
The Celtics with Porzingis and Horford, having to not deal with Marcus Smart's suspect outside shooting could put forward lineups that not only defended well, but also spaced the floor for Tatum/Brown in a way that we just never have been able to do for Lebron/AD. Pelinka is just not a good GM. Keep saying it. Getting talent is not that hard in the NBA. Pelinka is good at getting talent. He's really bad at making the parts fit.
AD works at center as long as you have good perimeter defense like we had back in 2020 with Caruso, KCP and Green. Since we can't find a starter quality stretch 5 our best bet is improve perimeter defense. Find better defenders through 1-2-3.
sth like;
Lakers get Hunter and Caruso
Hawks get Reaves and Rui
Bulls get Bufkin, JHS and Lakers 1st
Resign DLO, Christie and Prince. Draft a big with #17
Joined: 17 Jun 2008 Posts: 367 Location: Boston, MA
Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2024 5:04 am Post subject:
Basketball Fan wrote:
TDRock wrote:
LakerFan1987 wrote:
I am mildly entertained by one of my friend who is a Celtic fan (he's from Boston so whatever), he and his pals are all busting on Tatum for copying others.
It's pretty funny.
I added to the fodder w/Tatum lifting his son up and copying Drew Brees lifting his son up during the SB.
They're all going off on him. Wishing he would have shut up.
Tatum copying Kobe, Kanye, KG etc
"What they gonna say now" is a direct grab from Steph when GSW beat the Celtics. At first I thought it was some kind of turnabout is fairplay but then I realized he ganked nearly everything he said which is just odd. Lol
Tatum has no personality of his own tbh.
Honestly the Celtics were smart to build the supporting cast to offset the issues Tatum/Brown had. Those two on their own not that special.
I mean every championship team needs good, clutch role players and can't win with just the two of them. Kobe/Shaq had Rick Fox, Derek Fisher, Robert Horry, Ron Harper etc. Kobe/Gasol had Lamar Odom, Derek Fisher, Shannon Brown, Bynum. I've heard Shaq say exactly the same thing that you need a team with good role players to win a championship not just two superstars. Luka and Kyrie didn't have enough help so Dallas lost. _________________ Boston Celtics are the 2024 NBA Champions!!!
I'd also add that the Celtics benefit from a lot of tailwinds. Tatum just happened to not hit his 3rd contract (which will really hamstring the Celtics when Brown/Tatum are making ~$110M combined, even if the cap is going up 10%) plus the second apron hasn't been instated yet, allowing them to make those trades.
This is what "excellent execution on the margins" buys you. Any system has ups and downs, unexpected opportunities (trades, FA's) can and will arise.
If you have both strategy (Steven's vision) and tactics (trades, FA's, draft, asset management) covered then you will put runs on the board whenever the "right pitch" comes along. And the Celtics recently have "scored" nearly every time they've had the opportunity: Porzingis, White, Jrue, Stevens as GM, even Udoka originally even though that back-fired.
One of the most underrated things in the NBA right now on title teams is how the C is spacing the floor.
2019 - Marc Gasol spaces the floor for the Raptors.
2020 - AD floor spaces, we played big and less spacing with AD at the 4, Howard, but overall at the important death or in a lot of games we went with AD who at the time was shooting 35+% from 3. Denver series isn't won without AD shooting that 3 ball well.
2021- BroLo at the 5. Believe Portis was coming in backing him up.
2022 - Warriors small ball, but they have always been an exception to needing size due to their once in a lifetime perimeter shooting strength of Steph/Klay/Durant or someone else in that SF role. Plus Dray gives them a lot of perimeter passing and driving skill at the 5 when he's there.
2023 - Nuggets with Joker.
2024 - Cs with Porzingis/Horford.
Your 5 giving you spacing + size is a premium high value asset right now. Unfortunately we had a great great shot at Myles Turner in 2022 and let it go. Very foolish. Myles, AD, Rui would have set up our front court for years beyond Lebron.
The Celtics with Porzingis and Horford, having to not deal with Marcus Smart's suspect outside shooting could put forward lineups that not only defended well, but also spaced the floor for Tatum/Brown in a way that we just never have been able to do for Lebron/AD. Pelinka is just not a good GM. Keep saying it. Getting talent is not that hard in the NBA. Pelinka is good at getting talent. He's really bad at making the parts fit.
The Nuggets aren't a great example IMO since Aaron Gordon is functionally a 5 in the way he plays. The Warriors as you noted were also limited in big man shooting. The Bucks also had Giannis.
It's really just the '20 Lakers and '24 Celtics that had clear shooting 1-5 (when the Lakers put AD at the 5, that is).
I'd also add that the Celtics benefit from a lot of tailwinds. Tatum just happened to not hit his 3rd contract (which will really hamstring the Celtics when Brown/Tatum are making ~$110M combined, even if the cap is going up 10%) plus the second apron hasn't been instated yet, allowing them to make those trades.
This is what "excellent execution on the margins" buys you. Any system has ups and downs, unexpected opportunities (trades, FA's) can and will arise.
If you have both strategy (Steven's vision) and tactics (trades, FA's, draft, asset management) covered then you will put runs on the board whenever the "right pitch" comes along. And the Celtics recently have "scored" nearly every time they've had the opportunity: Porzingis, White, Jrue, Stevens as GM, even Udoka originally even though that back-fired.
Yeah that's fair.
Still, I stand by my statement that if you swap the Celtics and the Nuggets, the Celtics likely have 0 rings and probably just a single Finals appearance (2024). They are benefitting BIG TIME from being in the East, and if the Lakers had built around Tatum/Brown, I bet there would be big time complaining from LG about how the Lakers are committing to a duo that is not good enough to win it all. It's hard to properly contextualize the Celtics, because if I'm being honest, it took masterful GMing from Ainge and Brad Stevens just to be able to build a contender around the Brown/Tatum duo. So we can talk about all the ways in which Boston's management is great, but that actually understates the arguable mistakes they've made committing to Brown & Tatum.
I'd also add that the Celtics benefit from a lot of tailwinds. Tatum just happened to not hit his 3rd contract (which will really hamstring the Celtics when Brown/Tatum are making ~$110M combined, even if the cap is going up 10%) plus the second apron hasn't been instated yet, allowing them to make those trades.
This is what "excellent execution on the margins" buys you. Any system has ups and downs, unexpected opportunities (trades, FA's) can and will arise.
If you have both strategy (Steven's vision) and tactics (trades, FA's, draft, asset management) covered then you will put runs on the board whenever the "right pitch" comes along. And the Celtics recently have "scored" nearly every time they've had the opportunity: Porzingis, White, Jrue, Stevens as GM, even Udoka originally even though that back-fired.
I think one thing Stevens realized right away that Ainge (who did a great job fleecing NJ/Brooklyn and amassing assets) did not realize is that Boston isn't considered a desirable free agent destination historically.
Thus, Stevens did it with trades by acquiring players under contract and then exposing them to the benefits of playing for a well run, professional organization.
White, Holiday, Porzingis were all amazing moves in my mind and even some of their deep bench played well in their opportunities.
But it was Ainge that got them Tatum and Brown, but that alone probably doesn't win it without all the other guys named above going off. _________________ Love, Laker Lanny
Joined: 17 Jun 2008 Posts: 367 Location: Boston, MA
Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2024 6:09 pm Post subject:
LakerLanny wrote:
ThePageDude wrote:
tox wrote:
<snip>
I'd also add that the Celtics benefit from a lot of tailwinds. Tatum just happened to not hit his 3rd contract (which will really hamstring the Celtics when Brown/Tatum are making ~$110M combined, even if the cap is going up 10%) plus the second apron hasn't been instated yet, allowing them to make those trades.
This is what "excellent execution on the margins" buys you. Any system has ups and downs, unexpected opportunities (trades, FA's) can and will arise.
If you have both strategy (Steven's vision) and tactics (trades, FA's, draft, asset management) covered then you will put runs on the board whenever the "right pitch" comes along. And the Celtics recently have "scored" nearly every time they've had the opportunity: Porzingis, White, Jrue, Stevens as GM, even Udoka originally even though that back-fired.
I think one thing Stevens realized right away that Ainge (who did a great job fleecing NJ/Brooklyn and amassing assets) did not realize is that Boston isn't considered a desirable free agent destination historically.
Thus, Stevens did it with trades by acquiring players under contract and then exposing them to the benefits of playing for a well run, professional organization.
White, Holiday, Porzingis were all amazing moves in my mind and even some of their deep bench played well in their opportunities.
But it was Ainge that got them Tatum and Brown, but that alone probably doesn't win it without all the other guys named above going off.
Ainge also brought in Marcus Smart, Robert Williams which were pieces traded to get Porzingus and Holiday. You needed both Ainge and Brad Steven's contributions to this team to win the championship similar to the Red Sox with Dan Duquette bringing in Pedro Martinez, Manny Ramirez, Johnny Damon, Jason Varitek and Derek Lowe. Later, Theo Epstein brought in the rest of the 2004 championship team with David Ortiz, Bill Mueller, Curt Schilling, Kevin Millar, David Roberts and Orlando Cabrerra. _________________ Boston Celtics are the 2024 NBA Champions!!!
I think one thing Stevens realized right away that Ainge (who did a great job fleecing NJ/Brooklyn and amassing assets) did not realize is that Boston isn't considered a desirable free agent destination historically.
Thus, Stevens did it with trades by acquiring players under contract and then exposing them to the benefits of playing for a well run, professional organization.
White, Holiday, Porzingis were all amazing moves in my mind and even some of their deep bench played well in their opportunities.
But it was Ainge that got them Tatum and Brown, but that alone probably doesn't win it without all the other guys named above going off.
Difference between Tim Duncan and David Robinson. You know Admiral would have been like Vlade and turned away. Dude never wanted that smoke. Tim Duncan on the other hand, even on subtle moments like these, always showed who he really was. As dominant and physical as Shaq was, even the mighty Shaq never intimidated Duncan. It was only fitting that it was Duncan who single handedly ended the Lakers 3-peat dynasty
I could imagine Kobe staring Tatum down and what would Tatum do? Look away or down....dude doesnt have the dog spirit and you challenge his manhood, dude wont fight back. Jaylen Brown on the other hand would likely stare Kobe right down expressionless no matter what he was feeling inside.
Its these moments and character that Shaq always perceives to see if he respects you or not. Its why he always fought a lot more with Kobe but always respected him and NEVER respected Eddie Jones and wanted him gone.
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 36399 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2024 2:10 pm Post subject:
1995Lakers wrote:
Difference between Tim Duncan and David Robinson. You know Admiral would have been like Vlade and turned away. Dude never wanted that smoke. Tim Duncan on the other hand, even on subtle moments like these, always showed who he really was. As dominant and physical as Shaq was, even the mighty Shaq never intimidated Duncan. It was only fitting that it was Duncan who single handedly ended the Lakers 3-peat dynasty
I could imagine Kobe staring Tatum down and what would Tatum do? Look away or down....dude doesnt have the dog spirit and you challenge his manhood, dude wont fight back. Jaylen Brown on the other hand would likely stare Kobe right down expressionless no matter what he was feeling inside.
Its these moments and character that Shaq always perceives to see if he respects you or not. Its why he always fought a lot more with Kobe but always respected him and NEVER respected Eddie Jones and wanted him gone.
The Nuggets aren't a great example IMO since Aaron Gordon is functionally a 5 in the way he plays
They have 4 out of 5 shooters. And Gordon moves off the ball.
That's what I am saying. If AD is your non-shooter, everyone around him has to be a high level/considerable shooter.
If AD is being moved to the 4, they need a 5 that can do what Porzingis/Bro Lopez do. If we keep AD at the 5, then we need a legit starting 3 that can do what we need defensively and spread the floor. Vanderbilt won't cut it. Neither would Rui, as it seems his defense just isn't there.
There's another thing as well to consider. How good the dribble ball penetration is. Lebron at age 40 being our best threat to do ball penetration, further cements the need for better shooting. Teams just aren't afraid of Lebron the way would be a prime time PG. He's not in his prime, he doesn't have the gas to be able to consistently game in and game out apply that ball penetration pressure.
So to me we need 2 significant upgrades. We either need to get a stretch 5 or a legit 2-way SF to complement AD/Bron. In addition we need a PG/G who can apply more dribble penetration. DLO and Reaves just aren't athletic enough to provide that.
I don't have the advanced metrics on this, but my gut says that Jaylen Brown, Tatum, Porzingis, Holiday and White all get to the rim (as a team/unit) much more than AD, Bron, Reaves, DLO, Rui did in via ball penetration. That's just my eye observation, I am sure these stats can be tracked and found. You get that increased penetration and now the 3 point shooting opens up. As I've said many times, I don't think Redick or any coach will resolve these things. We need a better more athletic group to be legit about making a Finals run.
I agree with everything you said wolf. The Celtics were really good at creating an initial advantage and then driving-and-kicking until they had an open shot with their insane spacing. AD is a good enough offensive player that even without a 3 point shot, so long as the rest of the lineup can shoot, the same thing should apply. LeBron is the only person who can make that initial advantage for the Lakers, and he's not who he was 5 years ago on that front.
I would roll up what the Lakers need to: a 2 way player at the 3 who can create the initial advantage. I have no suggestions on how to get that player (I don't think it's possible) which is why the more I've been thinking about it, the more doomer I am on the LeBron/AD pairing for championship aspirations. I think with the right marginal trades the Lakers can probably win 50-55 games but I think their inability to create an opening on offense consistently means they would inevitably be doomed in the playoffs
I have no suggestions on how to get that player (I don't think it's possible) which is why the more I've been thinking about it, the more doomer I am on the LeBron/AD pairing for championship aspirations.
Tox I saved you a seat on the Rebuild Express _________________ 14-5-3-12
All times are GMT - 8 Hours Goto page Previous1, 2, 3 ... 422, 423, 424
Page 424 of 424
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
