*** 2024 NBA Finals Discussion thread - Mavs vs Celtics ***
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WorthyNum1
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2024 12:13 am    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
WorthyNum1 wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Quote tree getting toolong. You can refer to it if need be.


WorthyNum1 wrote:
Quote:
I sure did. I gave you the reason not to blame anyone (1. not as painful, 2. would have lost in the AD trade anyway). Your question doesn't warrant just a name or a "no one to blame" answer.

A reason or two behind it is just as good, if not better.


OK. You blamed Magic for not drafting Tatum. You blame no one for JB and BI. A simple I blame no one would have sufficed.


Well, are you dictating how I should answer a question? I like to answer with a reason or two, whether you like it or not.

Of course not. To me, your answer was a nonanswer. I asked a point blank question, I expected a point blank answer. No need to get testy.


For me, I don't give straightforward answer. I like to give elaborated answers to convey more of my thoughts. If I give an answer not to your liking, tough!

Who is testy here? It seems like you are more interested in arguing whether I answered your question directly.


Last edited by WorthyNum1 on Tue Jun 18, 2024 12:33 am; edited 2 times in total
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WorthyNum1
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2024 12:22 am    Post subject:

Vancouver Fan wrote:
WorthyNum1 wrote:
Vancouver Fan wrote:
CamReddish wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Vancouver Fan wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
Let it be known that Magic indirectly helped the Celtics by drafting Lonzo Ball over Jayson Tatum.....
Remember when people here thought Lonzo was God's gift to the Lakers...the team and organization we loved hasn't been the same for a long long time.

YUP!
Magic made a boo boo. But, who knew? Drafts are a carp shoot. Be honest, did you think Tatum was better than Lonzo? I didn't.


Yup. Nobody wanted Tatum. Most people wanted Lonzo or Fultz to slip a spot
Boston wanted Tatum. LOL


A more interesting what if would be: Had the Lakers snatched Tatum, who would Boston have picked?

Lonzo? not likely, he's mostly hype.
However, there are a few gems in the first round later: Donovan Mitchell, Bam, Fox, the Flying Finn...
If the Lakers drafted Tatum, we would've traded him.


I wouldn't mind a bit if the Lakers had traded Tatum. Tatum can play for the Pelicans, the Suns, the Thunder, the Cavs for all I care.

My beef is not that the Lakers don't have Tatum. My beef is that the Lakers let the Celtics have Tatum.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2024 1:23 am    Post subject:

(bleep) BOSTON
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2024 2:47 am    Post subject:

lakersfan32 wrote:
BirdMagicLegend wrote:
Brad Stevens gets like 50% of the credit for building this team and the other 50% goes to Danny Ainge who drafted Marcus Smart, Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum (Nets picks from the KG and Pierce trade) and made more moves to get other complimentary pieces. Don't forget about Ainge.


what % does the bucks gm get?


Agreed with this. Foston became much better with Jrue. Porky didn't even play much in the playoffs and they were absolutely fine without him. Jrue was like the final piece of the championship puzzle and they've found it. Now it's up to the rest of the league to stop Foston from repeating.

At least they didn't get Jrue a year earlier because they could have used him against Butler last year and we could be looking at a repeat this year.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2024 3:22 am    Post subject:

Last time these leprechauns won, Magic and Kobe went back2back. U up Kang
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2024 3:56 am    Post subject:

Boston could certainly get 2-3 more rings out of this group. It will depend on if the Knicks and Nuggets can make a push to knock them off. Tatum/Brown/Porzingis/Holiday/White is a phenomenal foundation.

Blame the Nets for trading 4 firsts for Garnett/Pierce. That set the Celtics up for this
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2024 4:20 am    Post subject:

Dominic1981 wrote:
Boston could certainly get 2-3 more rings out of this group. It will depend on if the Knicks and Nuggets can make a push to knock them off. Tatum/Brown/Porzingis/Holiday/White is a phenomenal foundation.

Blame the Nets for trading 4 firsts for Garnett/Pierce. That set the Celtics up for this


Blame Ainge for making that trade 11 years ago that has finally led the Celtics to where they are now. He not only cashed into two aging superstars for a bunch of quality draft picks, he also traded with Philly for more assets while drafting Tatum, after drafting Brown a year earlier. Now he's doing again with the Jazz already fleecing the Wolves in the Gobert trade. I wonder if 10 years from now, the Jazz are gonna be like Foston today.

The Lakers need someone like Ainge, maybe Myers. If Jeanie isn't willing to part way with her friend Pelinka, then she should sell the team because we can't just keep the same people and go down the same road every year.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2024 5:20 am    Post subject:

lakersfever714 wrote:
Dominic1981 wrote:
Boston could certainly get 2-3 more rings out of this group. It will depend on if the Knicks and Nuggets can make a push to knock them off. Tatum/Brown/Porzingis/Holiday/White is a phenomenal foundation.

Blame the Nets for trading 4 firsts for Garnett/Pierce. That set the Celtics up for this


Blame Ainge for making that trade 11 years ago that has finally led the Celtics to where they are now. He not only cashed into two aging superstars for a bunch of quality draft picks, he also traded with Philly for more assets while drafting Tatum, after drafting Brown a year earlier. Now he's doing again with the Jazz already fleecing the Wolves in the Gobert trade. I wonder if 10 years from now, the Jazz are gonna be like Foston today.

The Lakers need someone like Ainge, maybe Myers. If Jeanie isn't willing to part way with her friend Pelinka, then she should sell the team because we can't just keep the same people and go down the same road every year.


Remember though Lakers picked Lonzo Ball the next Michael Jordan and Brandon Ingram over Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown and Laker fans defended their organization's picks for years.
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Last edited by BirdMagicLegend on Tue Jun 18, 2024 5:26 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2024 5:23 am    Post subject:

From Reddit

Kyrie Irving in Boston in the 2024 Finals - 43 points (14.3 ppg) on 18-53 (34%) and 3-17 (17.6%) from 3 in 40 mins per game
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2024 5:27 am    Post subject:

lakersfever714 wrote:
Dominic1981 wrote:
Boston could certainly get 2-3 more rings out of this group. It will depend on if the Knicks and Nuggets can make a push to knock them off. Tatum/Brown/Porzingis/Holiday/White is a phenomenal foundation.

Blame the Nets for trading 4 firsts for Garnett/Pierce. That set the Celtics up for this


Blame Ainge for making that trade 11 years ago that has finally led the Celtics to where they are now. He not only cashed into two aging superstars for a bunch of quality draft picks, he also traded with Philly for more assets while drafting Tatum, after drafting Brown a year earlier. Now he's doing again with the Jazz already fleecing the Wolves in the Gobert trade. I wonder if 10 years from now, the Jazz are gonna be like Foston today.

The Lakers need someone like Ainge, maybe Myers. If Jeanie isn't willing to part way with her friend Pelinka, then she should sell the team because we can't just keep the same people and go down the same road every year.


The Lakers ownership/fans are never patient enough to play that type of long game.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2024 5:51 am    Post subject:

BirdMagicLegend wrote:
lakersfever714 wrote:
Dominic1981 wrote:
Boston could certainly get 2-3 more rings out of this group. It will depend on if the Knicks and Nuggets can make a push to knock them off. Tatum/Brown/Porzingis/Holiday/White is a phenomenal foundation.

Blame the Nets for trading 4 firsts for Garnett/Pierce. That set the Celtics up for this


Blame Ainge for making that trade 11 years ago that has finally led the Celtics to where they are now. He not only cashed into two aging superstars for a bunch of quality draft picks, he also traded with Philly for more assets while drafting Tatum, after drafting Brown a year earlier. Now he's doing again with the Jazz already fleecing the Wolves in the Gobert trade. I wonder if 10 years from now, the Jazz are gonna be like Foston today.

The Lakers need someone like Ainge, maybe Myers. If Jeanie isn't willing to part way with her friend Pelinka, then she should sell the team because we can't just keep the same people and go down the same road every year.


Remember though Lakers picked Lonzo Ball the next Michael Jordan and Brandon Ingram over Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown and Laker fans defended their organization's picks for years.


*shrugs*

Both of them were carried by an exemplary supporting cast:

Jaylen Brown finals numbers: 20/5/5 on 16 shots and 44/23/73 splits
Jason Tatum finals numbers: 22/8/7 on 20 shots and 39/26/92 splits

Inefficient, well below league average numbers for guys who are supposed to be "stars". You are lucky they have Jrue/Porzingis/White as auxiliary players and either one of those guys could have won FMVP. They had to give it to someone, but Brad Stevens is the real MVP in this scenario.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2024 5:53 am    Post subject:

ton of Tatum jokes on X. the guy is corny as hell, i'm sure he's not even a Kobe fan, he was just using Kobe's name to market himself because he has no personality. he's even worse than Duncan, Duncan was boring too, but at least he didn't hide it. Tatum on the other hand has memorized all the cliche, and trying to be someone he's not in front of the camera.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2024 5:55 am    Post subject:

Anyone who thought it wasn’t going to end this way was a moron. The Celtics have a documentary sponsored by FanDuel and won on 617. You couldn’t have scripted it any better
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2024 5:57 am    Post subject:

Boston traded KG and Paul Pierce when they were in their mid-30s. They got a big haul of 1st round picks and that was the foundation of the current team. Laker ownership would never do that. they held onto Kobe and Pau to the end for what? a farewell tour? this ownership is all about storylines, not winning.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2024 6:01 am    Post subject:

Vancouver Fan wrote:
WorthyNum1 wrote:
Vancouver Fan wrote:
CamReddish wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Vancouver Fan wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
Let it be known that Magic indirectly helped the Celtics by drafting Lonzo Ball over Jayson Tatum.....
Remember when people here thought Lonzo was God's gift to the Lakers...the team and organization we loved hasn't been the same for a long long time.

YUP!
Magic made a boo boo. But, who knew? Drafts are a carp shoot. Be honest, did you think Tatum was better than Lonzo? I didn't.


Yup. Nobody wanted Tatum. Most people wanted Lonzo or Fultz to slip a spot
Boston wanted Tatum. LOL


A more interesting what if would be: Had the Lakers snatched Tatum, who would Boston have picked?

Lonzo? not likely, he's mostly hype.
However, there are a few gems in the first round later: Donovan Mitchell, Bam, Fox, the Flying Finn...
If the Lakers drafted Tatum, we would've traded him.



Trade Tatum? That is a total guess on your part; NOT A FACT. 50% True

Your guess is as good as mine; we would NOT have traded Tatum. 50% True

Turning guesses into facts is pretty easy.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2024 6:09 am    Post subject:

Dominic1981 wrote:
Boston could certainly get 2-3 more rings out of this group. It will depend on if the Knicks and Nuggets can make a push to knock them off. Tatum/Brown/Porzingis/Holiday/White is a phenomenal foundation.

Blame the Nets for trading 4 firsts for Garnett/Pierce. That set the Celtics up for this


What you’re saying may become true…it certainly looks like a possibility…but you cannot give them credit for something they have not yet earned. They have just now matched the Lakers success of the 4 straight lottery drafts with 1 ship despite having all those picks from the Garnett/Pierce trade. The Lakers did not having a similar advantage of a big trade of old stars netting multiple draft picks. The Keltics had a much bigger advantage yet only have 1 ship from those tanking years…same as the Lakers…so as of now the Lakers have outperformed them and they Keltics have been disappointing due to the advantage they had.

The Lakers beat Garnett/Pierce, then Keltics went into rebuild mode when they traded them for multiple picks whereas the Lakers didn’t get assets back from their entrance into rebuild mode, Dwight left for nothing, Nash and Kobe retired. The Lakers didn’t get a cache of draft picks yet they still won a ship BEFORE the Keltics and both Clubs now have 1 to show for the tanking. It may change in the future if the current Foston team becomes a dynasty and if current Laker team doesn’t get their act together, but for now Buck Foston! The Lakers have had just as many ships since beating them in 2010 even tho the Kectics had a major advantage getting multiple draft picks going into their rebuild while the Lakers did not.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2024 6:16 am    Post subject:

Hanging from Rafters wrote:
Dominic1981 wrote:
Boston could certainly get 2-3 more rings out of this group. It will depend on if the Knicks and Nuggets can make a push to knock them off. Tatum/Brown/Porzingis/Holiday/White is a phenomenal foundation.

Blame the Nets for trading 4 firsts for Garnett/Pierce. That set the Celtics up for this


What you’re saying may become true…it certainly looks like a possibility…but you cannot give them credit for something they have not yet earned. They have just now matched the Lakers success of the 4 straight lottery drafts with 1 ship despite having all those picks from the Garnett/Pierce trade. The Lakers did not having a similar advantage of a big trade of old stars netting multiple draft picks. The Keltics had a much bigger advantage yet only have 1 ship from those tanking years…same as the Lakers…so as of now the Lakers have outperformed them and they Keltics have been disappointing due to the advantage they had.

The Lakers beat Garnett/Pierce, then Keltics went into rebuild mode when they traded them for multiple picks whereas the Lakers didn’t get assets back from their entrance into rebuild mode, Dwight left for nothing, Nash and Kobe retired. The Lakers didn’t get a cache of draft picks yet they still won a ship BEFORE the Keltics and both Clubs now have 1 to show for the tanking. It may change in the future if the current Foston team becomes a dynasty and if current Laker team doesn’t get their act together, but for now Buck Foston! The Lakers have had just as many ships since beating them in 2010 even tho the Kectics had a major advantage getting multiple draft picks going into their rebuild while the Lakers did not.


you can't just view everything in a vaccum and count how many chips both teams had since 2010. it's lot more than that. not to mention the one Laker got was a Covid tournament title. Celtics has been in the playoff and are considered as title contender year in and year out after 2010. Lakers on the other hand got lucky when LeBron decided to join a trash Laker squad in 2018 for personal reason. you can't compare planning with luck. Celtics have a plan and they have sticked to it and now they're being rewarded. Lakers on the other hand have always look for shortcuts, hoping to land another LeBron without giving out much. you just can't compare the two franchise at this point.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2024 6:31 am    Post subject:

SGV-Laker fan wrote:
Hanging from Rafters wrote:
Dominic1981 wrote:
Boston could certainly get 2-3 more rings out of this group. It will depend on if the Knicks and Nuggets can make a push to knock them off. Tatum/Brown/Porzingis/Holiday/White is a phenomenal foundation.

Blame the Nets for trading 4 firsts for Garnett/Pierce. That set the Celtics up for this


What you’re saying may become true…it certainly looks like a possibility…but you cannot give them credit for something they have not yet earned. They have just now matched the Lakers success of the 4 straight lottery drafts with 1 ship despite having all those picks from the Garnett/Pierce trade. The Lakers did not having a similar advantage of a big trade of old stars netting multiple draft picks. The Keltics had a much bigger advantage yet only have 1 ship from those tanking years…same as the Lakers…so as of now the Lakers have outperformed them and they Keltics have been disappointing due to the advantage they had.

The Lakers beat Garnett/Pierce, then Keltics went into rebuild mode when they traded them for multiple picks whereas the Lakers didn’t get assets back from their entrance into rebuild mode, Dwight left for nothing, Nash and Kobe retired. The Lakers didn’t get a cache of draft picks yet they still won a ship BEFORE the Keltics and both Clubs now have 1 to show for the tanking. It may change in the future if the current Foston team becomes a dynasty and if current Laker team doesn’t get their act together, but for now Buck Foston! The Lakers have had just as many ships since beating them in 2010 even tho the Kectics had a major advantage getting multiple draft picks going into their rebuild while the Lakers did not.


you can't just view everything in a vaccum and count how many chips both teams had since 2010. it's lot more than that. not to mention the one Laker got was a Covid tournament title. Celtics has been in the playoff and are considered as title contender year in and year out after 2010. Lakers on the other hand got lucky when LeBron decided to join a trash Laker squad in 2018 for personal reason. you can't compare planning with luck. Celtics have a plan and they have sticked to it and now they're being rewarded. Lakers on the other hand have always look for shortcuts, hoping to land another LeBron without giving out much. you just can't compare the two franchise at this point.


Celtics were trash for most of 2010's. have 2 titles since the cold war ended
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2024 6:32 am    Post subject:

PenG_ wrote:
From Reddit

Kyrie Irving in Boston in the 2024 Finals - 43 points (14.3 ppg) on 18-53 (34%) and 3-17 (17.6%) from 3 in 40 mins per game


Proof that Lebron carried him for his lone championship ring.

The difference between Lebron and Luka? Lebron didn't get scored on 70% of the time.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2024 6:34 am    Post subject:

SGV-Laker fan wrote:
Hanging from Rafters wrote:
Dominic1981 wrote:
Boston could certainly get 2-3 more rings out of this group. It will depend on if the Knicks and Nuggets can make a push to knock them off. Tatum/Brown/Porzingis/Holiday/White is a phenomenal foundation.

Blame the Nets for trading 4 firsts for Garnett/Pierce. That set the Celtics up for this


What you’re saying may become true…it certainly looks like a possibility…but you cannot give them credit for something they have not yet earned. They have just now matched the Lakers success of the 4 straight lottery drafts with 1 ship despite having all those picks from the Garnett/Pierce trade. The Lakers did not having a similar advantage of a big trade of old stars netting multiple draft picks. The Keltics had a much bigger advantage yet only have 1 ship from those tanking years…same as the Lakers…so as of now the Lakers have outperformed them and they Keltics have been disappointing due to the advantage they had.

The Lakers beat Garnett/Pierce, then Keltics went into rebuild mode when they traded them for multiple picks whereas the Lakers didn’t get assets back from their entrance into rebuild mode, Dwight left for nothing, Nash and Kobe retired. The Lakers didn’t get a cache of draft picks yet they still won a ship BEFORE the Keltics and both Clubs now have 1 to show for the tanking. It may change in the future if the current Foston team becomes a dynasty and if current Laker team doesn’t get their act together, but for now Buck Foston! The Lakers have had just as many ships since beating them in 2010 even tho the Kectics had a major advantage getting multiple draft picks going into their rebuild while the Lakers did not.


you can't just view everything in a vaccum and count how many chips both teams had since 2010. it's lot more than that. not to mention the one Laker got was a Covid tournament title. Celtics has been in the playoff and are considered as title contender year in and year out after 2010. Lakers on the other hand got lucky when LeBron decided to join a trash Laker squad in 2018 for personal reason. you can't compare planning with luck. Celtics have a plan and they have sticked to it and now they're being rewarded. Lakers on the other hand have always look for shortcuts, hoping to land another LeBron without giving out much. you just can't compare the two franchise at this point.


This exactly. Celtics have been to the finals or conference finals 6 times in the last 8 years and to the finals 2 times. You can’t even compare that (bleep) to the two successful seasons we have had. Financially alone they have made hundreds of millions more than the Lakers with their playoff success. Lakers were on a path with Jim and Mitch, they really were. Randle is a top 3 power forward in this league. BI is a great player. Dlo? Perhaps he would be someone more dependable if he was grown and shown more confidence as an 18 year old rookie rather than be embarrassed and shipped out for being a stupid teenager. Lonzo? Well maybe Jim and Mitch would have drafted JT instead of being enamored with Zo? Nobody knows. Hindsight is 20/20.

When we sold our soul to LeBron and his crew however this was always the way it was going to end. An aging super nova that’s about to burn out and nothing but a black hole of sadness awaiting when he leaves. I’m grateful for 2020, truly am but the Lakers need an enema.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2024 6:50 am    Post subject:

I'll never understand the Zo criticism. He didn't have the chance to prove himself. Chicago was knocked out of contention following his injury. They sank faster than the titanic without him. He will always be one of those what ifs, just like Greg Oden was.

We should be thankful he got us AD, who put us right back into contention. The problem is Rob broke up a championship core to get Westbrook. That was the real blunder.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2024 7:00 am    Post subject:

props to you guys who watched. Couldnt stomach it. I only watched about 3 minutes of game 4 at the end.

The west was a fun playoffs. terrible year. but here we are. Hopefully we sign some difference makers vs the usual cheap, "no other team wants" players.


If we can replace these guys with real guys maybe there is hope. As of now we have 2 guys that start for another playoff team and even that may be questioned next year.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2024 7:06 am    Post subject:

SGV-Laker fan wrote:
Boston traded KG and Paul Pierce when they were in their mid-30s. They got a big haul of 1st round picks and that was the foundation of the current team. Laker ownership would never do that. they held onto Kobe and Pau to the end for what? a farewell tour? this ownership is all about storylines, not winning.

They traded pau. Everything they did for Kobe was 100% the right move. He didn't stop us from rebuilding. we had draft picks
Dlo
JR
nance
they just weren't the right picks judging by now. Even if we did pick tatum etc, they were all going to be moved for AD. Bron was coming here when he did and like every roster before him, he dictated it. We just got big numbers no impact bron.

We are exactly where we should be. Unfortunately, the salary cap has made it tougher to be nimble.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2024 7:20 am    Post subject:

Murdock wrote:
lakersfever714 wrote:
Dominic1981 wrote:
Boston could certainly get 2-3 more rings out of this group. It will depend on if the Knicks and Nuggets can make a push to knock them off. Tatum/Brown/Porzingis/Holiday/White is a phenomenal foundation.

Blame the Nets for trading 4 firsts for Garnett/Pierce. That set the Celtics up for this


Blame Ainge for making that trade 11 years ago that has finally led the Celtics to where they are now. He not only cashed into two aging superstars for a bunch of quality draft picks, he also traded with Philly for more assets while drafting Tatum, after drafting Brown a year earlier. Now he's doing again with the Jazz already fleecing the Wolves in the Gobert trade. I wonder if 10 years from now, the Jazz are gonna be like Foston today.

The Lakers need someone like Ainge, maybe Myers. If Jeanie isn't willing to part way with her friend Pelinka, then she should sell the team because we can't just keep the same people and go down the same road every year.


The Lakers ownership/fans are never patient enough to play that type of long game.


They don’t really have another option
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2024 7:59 am    Post subject:

WorthyNum1 wrote:
jodeke wrote:
WorthyNum1 wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Quote tree getting toolong. You can refer to it if need be.


WorthyNum1 wrote:
Quote:
I sure did. I gave you the reason not to blame anyone (1. not as painful, 2. would have lost in the AD trade anyway). Your question doesn't warrant just a name or a "no one to blame" answer.

A reason or two behind it is just as good, if not better.


OK. You blamed Magic for not drafting Tatum. You blame no one for JB and BI. A simple I blame no one would have sufficed.


Well, are you dictating how I should answer a question? I like to answer with a reason or two, whether you like it or not.

Of course not. To me, your answer was a nonanswer. I asked a point blank question, I expected a point blank answer. No need to get testy.


For me, I don't give straightforward answer. I like to give elaborated answers to convey more of my thoughts. If I give an answer not to your liking, tough!

Who is testy here? It seems like you are more interested in arguing whether I answered your question directly.


OK. Have a nice day.
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