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miggz23 Star Player
Joined: 29 Nov 2018 Posts: 6821
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Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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gng930 wrote: | Agree that it was surreal to see a size advantage for once. That said, 3 guard lineups are common so I don't mind us playing 3 guards as long as one of them is Brown or Max. |
3 guard line up is doable if you have decent size on 1 or 2 of them...
Lakers issue tho is playing 3-4 guard line ups with 3 point guards at 6'3 and shorter. |
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lakerican Star Player
Joined: 09 May 2005 Posts: 3793
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Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2023 6:30 am Post subject: |
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I understand telling the 3 guard lineup when Ham uses WB, Dennis & PatBev but telling that Max, TBrown and AReeves are not wings in this 2023 basketball is wrong when you have BHield, NPowell, JBrown, JHart, RBarrett, KCP all playing wings from the SF position. For Ty Lue is very easy to say to staybout of the 3 guard minejp when he have not one bkt two of the better, taller wings in the last decade still in their prime.
The cardinal error Ham is doing is WB entering the game for TBrown, he should be entering for PatBev or Dennis. Maybe from now on, he begins doing that, let's wait and see.
Rui has played ONE game and came ffom the bench. Again let's see how this road trip goes. Remember, these games are really must win! |
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Hanging from Rafters Star Player
Joined: 31 Jul 2018 Posts: 4452
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Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2023 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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Posted in another thread:
Overall Ham gets a D.
- Consistent poor 1st quarter team performance to start the game appears to indicate a lack of effective coaching preparedness.
- Continually getting outplayed in the 3rd quarter seems to point to lack of halftime adjustments in the locker-room
- 9 games lost on the last possession or two could show an inability to draw up a scheme or implement a rotation that closes out games successfully.
- Particularly, in regard to closing out games, the losses have a common culprit...turnovers, missed multiple shots especially 3s, poor decision making, and failing to get a defensive rebound. These problems should have been addressed such that so many games would not be lost the same way.
Additionally, the 3 and 4 guard line-ups have given up leads and increased deficits resulting in losses. Ham had it looking like Bryant was unplayable with DNPs and 4 minutes of playing time but after AD went out Bryant showed that he could play, and may have been a better option over the 4-guard strategy that could have resulted in more wins.
Finally, Ham's infatuation with Pat Beverly in the line-up, tho Bev has looked good lately, appears to indicate a lack of awareness from the coach on how to go with what's working and what's not and when to switch.
The reason Ham has earned a D instead of F is because he moved WB to the bench...which is really just phycological jostling but effective for the fans... because WB IS NOT better than last year. I don't want to argue the point about WB, just look it up if there is disagreement.
Big picture...the team fired a coach (justifiably agreed with the decision) that won a championship for the team after the team had a losing record below .500 and missed the post season, if Ham is no better, with a slightly better roster, though still flawed he cannot get a decent grade. The Lakers are there right now...below .500 losing record not in position currently to qualify for the postseason.
Ham's grade can change but for now he gets no higher than a D. _________________ “When it looks as if it is a realistic possibility, I want to focus on winning a ship like it’s a goal that can’t be denied. I didn’t see that this off season.” |
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leking006 Star Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2018 Posts: 6398
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Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2023 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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when will this lineup end, ham is so in love with this (bleep) |
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scout_0 Star Player
Joined: 22 Oct 2020 Posts: 1810
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Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2023 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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It won't
Im forcing myself to learn to enjoy it |
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Lakersfan1211 Star Player
Joined: 28 Mar 2021 Posts: 5790
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Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2023 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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Just need 1 of Russ or Bev to be traded...hopefully it's Russ. |
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giordan0 Star Player
Joined: 05 Jan 2016 Posts: 1017
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Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2023 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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And he's doing it again. Lost a good lead on the Celts with these lineups. |
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wolfpaclaker Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002 Posts: 58344
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Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2023 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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As I said in the first page of this thread, the reason the Lakers do this is they want to play faster than their opponents and open up the game for AD/Bron/WB.
Now on offense sure it may help, it will def help in the RS. But there's a real cost of doing that, usually it comes with defensive size. You're also relying heavily on transition offense, which typically is easy to stop once teams scheme towards that in the playoffs.
We're giving up I think top 5 in the league in points. While the offense spacing and quick lineups get better looks, this is a good regular season strategy. In the playoffs you need your isolations and stars to run your halfcourt sets and find more balanced lineups. Once the games begin to slow down in the playoffs, being so small has no advantage unless you have elite shooting and skill (newsflash we don't). We're playing small to cater to talent like Dennis, WB, Bev. That's not when you play small. You play smaller when you have talent like Dray, KD, Klay etc and even that isn't playing midgets at the 3/2/1.
Anyway, this is me beating a deadhorse. We did this to ourselves with our coaching schemes and roster moves, and we continue to play Lebron, AD, Bev, Dennis etc all way out of position. Dennis is 1, as is Bev. AD should be at the 4 using his lenght to combat the perimeter shots. We have a stretch big in TBryant now who can allow for some of those lineups to work.The only time AD should be at the 5 is if we play very small teams or the death. Instead he is full time at the 5.
The whole elite pace, run the ball and spread the floor out offense, it won't work in the playoffs. It's a flawed RS tactic that allows you feast on tired or poor defensive teams that haven't schemed well against you. Well schemed, physically gifted teams will easily contain this style of offense, too. Everyone's so happy that we're competitive. I don't see what this should accomplish? A NBA team with Lebron, AD and WB will be competitive, We also have Dennis, TBryant, Bev. This is not a team without NBA quality players. They should be competitive. Our attachment to small ball has been a problem all season. Playing small at 3, 2, 1 and 4 isn't wise, IMO. Not when you don't have elite skill advantages - at the 3, 2, 1. We only gain speed, but not shooting, defense, etc.
Last edited by wolfpaclaker on Sat Jan 28, 2023 8:42 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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lakersfan32 Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 3718
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Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2023 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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somebody check in on megaton, lol |
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defense Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jan 2010 Posts: 39544
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Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2023 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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6'1 on Tatum and brown and Brogdon
Good plan right? |
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KindCrippler2000 Franchise Player
Joined: 02 May 2003 Posts: 15821
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Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2023 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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defense wrote: | 6'1 on Tatum and brown and Brogdon
Good plan right? |
I remember when PJ used those Odom-Bynum-Gasol lineups with big guards next to them. Good times. |
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defense Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jan 2010 Posts: 39544
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Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2023 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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KindCrippler2000 wrote: | defense wrote: | 6'1 on Tatum and brown and Brogdon
Good plan right? |
I remember when PJ used those Odom-Bynum-Gasol lineups with big guards next to them. Good times. |
I remember
Caruso
Green
Legramps
Davis
Mcgee |
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scout_0 Star Player
Joined: 22 Oct 2020 Posts: 1810
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Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2023 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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defense wrote: | KindCrippler2000 wrote: | defense wrote: | 6'1 on Tatum and brown and Brogdon
Good plan right? |
I remember when PJ used those Odom-Bynum-Gasol lineups with big guards next to them. Good times. |
I remember
Caruso
Green
Legramps
Davis
Mcgee |
KCP
Green
LeBron
Morris
Davis |
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wolfpaclaker Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002 Posts: 58344
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Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2023 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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KindCrippler2000 wrote: | defense wrote: | 6'1 on Tatum and brown and Brogdon
Good plan right? |
I remember when PJ used those Odom-Bynum-Gasol lineups with big guards next to them. Good times. |
It's a different era, much much much more wing talent now. A lot of teams are playing small. We'd have to adjust too. We probably couldn't get away with Gasol not shooting 3s in this era. Pau is super talented, he would have adjusted and developed a good 3 point shot. He had one, just never shot it much.
What I think we need to understand about that team, yeah had size, but they also had wing defenders. Artest, and before that Ariza. Even Luke Walton was 6'8 230 and played the 3 for us. Kobe was a 6'6-6'7 big 2 guard. They never ran those small 3-2-1 lineups like we have been the last 2 seasons.
Even if we want to play Bron at the 4, and AD at the 5 (which I don't think is the best way to use them defensively) we ought to have some significant size next to them at the 3 and 2. Of course here's the argument supporters of this coaching scheme will make. "He doesn't have the bigger wings". Ok, then why not play Bron at 3, AD at the 4, and start TBryant? That allows you to have some size and some chemistry development for that kind of lineup.
Someone get this memo out. Dennis and Pat Bev before this season have always started at the 1. Why we give them minutes next to WB at the 1, WB being the 1, we have to be the only team to have been doing this with them. We're essentially giving our core 3/2/1 minutes to 3 players who historically have logged the most minutes as a 1/PG. How is this justifiable? Beats me.
Really if Lebron hadn't been playing super human, top 7 NBA level, we'd sitting at 15 wins. Lebron's hiding a lot of our flawed tactics, IMO. |
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hydrohead Star Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2003 Posts: 4112 Location: Space City
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Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2023 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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scout_0 wrote: | defense wrote: | KindCrippler2000 wrote: | defense wrote: | 6'1 on Tatum and brown and Brogdon
Good plan right? |
I remember when PJ used those Odom-Bynum-Gasol lineups with big guards next to them. Good times. |
I remember
Caruso
Green
Legramps
Davis
Mcgee |
KCP
Green
LeBron
Morris
Davis |
I mean we could still be rocking
Shro
KCP
Kuzma
James
AD
But we traded it for Russ. _________________ Darvin |
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epic_ Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jan 2020 Posts: 11310
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Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2023 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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It's tough cuz the Cs were going with their 3 guard lineup and Rui just couldn't stay in front of those guys. _________________ 💜💛 🏆 👀 🍖 #18!!! |
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ThePageDude Star Player
Joined: 25 Jul 2002 Posts: 2589
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Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2023 5:48 am Post subject: |
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wolfpaclaker wrote: |
<snip>
You're also relying heavily on transition offense, which typically is easy to stop once teams scheme towards that in the playoffs.
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EXACTLY! This team is optimized currently for the regular season and is not as good as the recent run suggests; in the playoffs the better teams will scheme to shut-down the Laker transition offense, limit to half-court, pack the paint, shut down the lanes for Lebron, force Westbrook to shoot, attack DS/Beverly with length, use quickness against Hachimura etc. etc. |
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scout_0 Star Player
Joined: 22 Oct 2020 Posts: 1810
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Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2023 9:25 am Post subject: |
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Mr. Christie DNP
Mr. Gabriel DNP
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leking006 Star Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2018 Posts: 6398
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Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 9:05 am Post subject: |
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pat available, expect 3 guard combo again |
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