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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 7:16 am    Post subject:

It's just hard to imagine Russ at age 34 (in about a month) will all of a sudden become a strong defender. Lots of really bad habits ingrained in his defense. I didn't realize it until I watched him in person. Holy cow. The guy does not move on defense off the ball. Just standing there with hands on his hips and got beat on backdoors several times too.

It'll be a challenge to beat back nearly 10+ years of playing piss poor defense (b/c he was carrying such a high offensive usage load). But unlike last season, Ham will 3-4 options if Russ doesn't meet his expectations in Bev/Dennis/Nunn/Reaves.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 7:25 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
It's just hard to imagine Russ at age 34 (in about a month) will all of a sudden become a strong defender. Lots of really bad habits ingrained in his defense. I didn't realize it until I watched him in person. Holy cow. The guy does not move on defense off the ball. Just standing there with hands on his hips and got beat on backdoors several times too.

It'll be a challenge to beat back nearly 10+ years of playing piss poor defense (b/c he was carrying such a high offensive usage load). But unlike last season, Ham will 3-4 options if Russ doesn't meet his expectations in Bev/Dennis/Nunn/Reaves.


My fear is that even if Russ didn't perform to Ham's expectation defensively, he would still start Russ just like Vogel did last season. Reaves isn't going to beat out Russ. PatBev will be used as our wing defender. That leaves only DS and Nunn. So if DS and Nunn couldn't even outplay Russ, then we'd get the same situation as we did last year by having to start Russ the whole season and end up with one of the worst defenses ever.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 7:33 am    Post subject:

lakersfever714 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
It's just hard to imagine Russ at age 34 (in about a month) will all of a sudden become a strong defender. Lots of really bad habits ingrained in his defense. I didn't realize it until I watched him in person. Holy cow. The guy does not move on defense off the ball. Just standing there with hands on his hips and got beat on backdoors several times too.

It'll be a challenge to beat back nearly 10+ years of playing piss poor defense (b/c he was carrying such a high offensive usage load). But unlike last season, Ham will 3-4 options if Russ doesn't meet his expectations in Bev/Dennis/Nunn/Reaves.


My fear is that even if Russ didn't perform to Ham's expectation defensively, he would still start Russ just like Vogel did last season. Reaves isn't going to beat out Russ. PatBev will be used as our wing defender. That leaves only DS and Nunn. So if DS and Nunn couldn't even outplay Russ, then we'd get the same situation as we did last year by having to start Russ the whole season and end up with one of the worst defenses ever.


And that is the risk that Ham took speaking so publicly about Russ, and about the fact that players will have to earn playing time through defense. If Russ "wins" the starting position, one would hope that Ham stuck true to his word and Russ won it through defense.

If Russ is objectively playing horrible defense and starting, then you know Ham is not being truthful even to himself. Dennis/Bev/Nunn I expect them to compete hard for minutes and to have them playing defense while Russ doesn't and gets preferential treatment would be a tremendous blow to team morale.
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lakersfever714
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 7:33 am    Post subject:

DS is still working on his visa so he hasn't even shown up to practice yet. Nunn is still slowly getting acclimated to the game. PatBev will probably be used at the wing position. That leaves only Russ as the healthy and always durable guard. No wonder Ham endorsed him as a starter. There was no viable alternatives.

Ham might be put in the same position as Vogel last year. Either convince Russ to play defense or start Reaves? Pick your poison, Ham.


Last edited by lakersfever714 on Wed Sep 28, 2022 7:36 am; edited 1 time in total
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 7:34 am    Post subject:

lakersfever714 wrote:
DS is still working on his visa so he hasn't even shown up to practice yet. Nunn is still slowly getting acclimated to the game. PatBev will probably be used at the wing position. That leaves only Russ as the healthy and always durable guard. No wonder Ham endorsed him as a starter. There was no viable alternatives.


There are viable alternatives. It's just the preseason. Most likely Russ starts at the beginning of the year. We also have a killer first 10 games so he may not look so great if he's not competing defensively or playing like Ham expects him to.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 7:38 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
lakersfever714 wrote:
DS is still working on his visa so he hasn't even shown up to practice yet. Nunn is still slowly getting acclimated to the game. PatBev will probably be used at the wing position. That leaves only Russ as the healthy and always durable guard. No wonder Ham endorsed him as a starter. There was no viable alternatives.


There are viable alternatives. It's just the preseason. Most likely Russ starts at the beginning of the year. We also have a killer first 10 games so he may not look so great if he's not competing defensively or playing like Ham expects him to.


What alternatives? We're assuming DS would be good and Nunn would be healthy. If those two things don't pan out, then there are no alternatives.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 7:43 am    Post subject:

What is Ham's justification for starting Russ after just one practice? Did he see something that he really likes? What happens to starting job competition? Don't a start a guy just because he makes $47M. I guess it's his job on the line so whatever. Vogel placed a lot of faith in Brick too and look where he ended up.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 7:45 am    Post subject:

lakersfever714 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
lakersfever714 wrote:
DS is still working on his visa so he hasn't even shown up to practice yet. Nunn is still slowly getting acclimated to the game. PatBev will probably be used at the wing position. That leaves only Russ as the healthy and always durable guard. No wonder Ham endorsed him as a starter. There was no viable alternatives.


There are viable alternatives. It's just the preseason. Most likely Russ starts at the beginning of the year. We also have a killer first 10 games so he may not look so great if he's not competing defensively or playing like Ham expects him to.


What alternatives? We're assuming DS would be good and Nunn would be healthy. If those two things don't pan out, then there are no alternatives.


Dennis also played a full season with LBJ/AD. Unlike Russ:

Lakers were 38-23 with Dennis starting in 20-21.

Lakers were 21-7 until AD's first injury.

AD/LBJ missed more games % wise in 20-21 than in 21-22, yet the Lakers finished with a 42-30 (48 win pace) season.

That's your alternative to Russ. Nunn by all accounts is cleared fully to return to play. We aren't taken hostage by Russ last season b/c I could agree with you last year, we had no choice. This year, we have 4 viable choices.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 7:46 am    Post subject:

I see this playing out in one of two ways:

-Westbrick will be penciled in as the starter and will continue to be the starter AS LONG as he does everything Ham wants him to do, especially on the defensive end. If he does this and they win some games, he will be shipped off to Indiana for Hield/Turner and a first round pick. Indiana needs to get rid of these guys. Every move they have made in the off-season implies they are trying to tank to move higher in the draft and having Turner and Hield ensures they are a middle of the road team.


-If he doesn’t buy in, he will be bench and if that causes team chemistry issues, he will be sent to Indiana for Hield/Turner for the two draft picks Indiana wants. Rob’s job is on the line and he will not wait until the off-season to make a move. They got all of these guards for a reason: To ship Weestbrick at some point during the season.

It’s a big gamble by Rob because if the Pacers find another trade for Hield and Turner, Lakers are screwed. I believe both teams are playing chicken and waiting for the other team to fold.


Last edited by george w kush on Wed Sep 28, 2022 7:50 am; edited 3 times in total
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lakersfever714
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 7:46 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
lakersfever714 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
lakersfever714 wrote:
DS is still working on his visa so he hasn't even shown up to practice yet. Nunn is still slowly getting acclimated to the game. PatBev will probably be used at the wing position. That leaves only Russ as the healthy and always durable guard. No wonder Ham endorsed him as a starter. There was no viable alternatives.


There are viable alternatives. It's just the preseason. Most likely Russ starts at the beginning of the year. We also have a killer first 10 games so he may not look so great if he's not competing defensively or playing like Ham expects him to.


What alternatives? We're assuming DS would be good and Nunn would be healthy. If those two things don't pan out, then there are no alternatives.


Dennis also played a full season with LBJ/AD. Unlike Russ:

Lakers were 38-23 with Dennis starting in 20-21.

Lakers were 21-7 until AD's first injury.

AD/LBJ missed more games % wise in 20-21 than in 21-22, yet the Lakers finished with a 42-30 (48 win pace) season.

That's your alternative to Russ. Nunn by all accounts is cleared fully to return to play. We aren't taken hostage by Russ last season b/c I could agree with you last year, we had no choice. This year, we have 4 viable choices.


Great. Why not start DS then? Brick had a much worse record with Bron and AD last season than DS did the year before.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 7:57 am    Post subject:

lakersfever714 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
lakersfever714 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
lakersfever714 wrote:
DS is still working on his visa so he hasn't even shown up to practice yet. Nunn is still slowly getting acclimated to the game. PatBev will probably be used at the wing position. That leaves only Russ as the healthy and always durable guard. No wonder Ham endorsed him as a starter. There was no viable alternatives.


There are viable alternatives. It's just the preseason. Most likely Russ starts at the beginning of the year. We also have a killer first 10 games so he may not look so great if he's not competing defensively or playing like Ham expects him to.


What alternatives? We're assuming DS would be good and Nunn would be healthy. If those two things don't pan out, then there are no alternatives.


Dennis also played a full season with LBJ/AD. Unlike Russ:

Lakers were 38-23 with Dennis starting in 20-21.

Lakers were 21-7 until AD's first injury.

AD/LBJ missed more games % wise in 20-21 than in 21-22, yet the Lakers finished with a 42-30 (48 win pace) season.

That's your alternative to Russ. Nunn by all accounts is cleared fully to return to play. We aren't taken hostage by Russ last season b/c I could agree with you last year, we had no choice. This year, we have 4 viable choices.


Great. Why not start DS then? Brick had a much worse record with Bron and AD last season than DS did the year before.


There's a lot of politics involved here. I hope the Lakers focus on facts over feelings, and wins over salaries. I think they know they will "lose" Russ if they don't let him start.

I truly believe having him as a 2nd unit lead is the best way to go but that may not be a viable choice. The Lakers literally saw Dennis perform much better in a worse COVID/injury year in 2020-21 but will still have to cater to #0 first.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 8:41 am    Post subject:

Man, can’t Brodie just watch B.Scott tapes playing along side Magic, I mean the blue print is right there
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 9:10 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
Man, can’t Brodie just watch B.Scott tapes playing along side Magic, I mean the blue print is right there


Unfortunately, because Russ thinks he's still Magic.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 9:41 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
Man, can’t Brodie just watch B.Scott tapes playing along side Magic, I mean the blue print is right there


He should pretty much play like a 3&D player.
Limited to corner 3s.
And run the break if he gets the rebound.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 10:01 am    Post subject:

epic_ wrote:
governator wrote:
Man, can’t Brodie just watch B.Scott tapes playing along side Magic, I mean the blue print is right there


He should pretty much play like a 3&D player.
Limited to corner 3s.
And run the break if he gets the rebound.


You actually want him to stop going for defensive rebounds, it's a big part of why he loses his assignment/rotation on D. And he's actually not that good bringing it up off the board (the team PPP in those situations is lower than almost anyone else grabbing the board).

You use him as a POA defender, and he has to work on making the rotations, then sprinting out to get an outlet and pushing.

THEN, if there's no early offense, he goes to the corner and plays a shorter, more ball handling Ced Ceballos baseline role ideally.
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epic_
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 10:37 am    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
epic_ wrote:
governator wrote:
Man, can’t Brodie just watch B.Scott tapes playing along side Magic, I mean the blue print is right there


He should pretty much play like a 3&D player.
Limited to corner 3s.
And run the break if he gets the rebound.


You actually want him to stop going for defensive rebounds, it's a big part of why he loses his assignment/rotation on D. And he's actually not that good bringing it up off the board (the team PPP in those situations is lower than almost anyone else grabbing the board).

You use him as a POA defender, and he has to work on making the rotations, then sprinting out to get an outlet and pushing.

THEN, if there's no early offense, he goes to the corner and plays a shorter, more ball handling Ced Ceballos baseline role ideally.


I don't want him to "go" for rebounds.
I was referring to times he rebounds when the balls in his vicinity.
From what we've seen from the bucks I assume whoever has the ball and has skills to dribble will be allowed to advance the ball, either with the dribble or a pass.

And as long as those without to he ball are sprinting to those blue boxes, we should be good.

I agree w the POA defense. And the ceballos comp is interesting.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2022 2:57 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
lakersfever714 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
lakersfever714 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
lakersfever714 wrote:
DS is still working on his visa so he hasn't even shown up to practice yet. Nunn is still slowly getting acclimated to the game. PatBev will probably be used at the wing position. That leaves only Russ as the healthy and always durable guard. No wonder Ham endorsed him as a starter. There was no viable alternatives.


There are viable alternatives. It's just the preseason. Most likely Russ starts at the beginning of the year. We also have a killer first 10 games so he may not look so great if he's not competing defensively or playing like Ham expects him to.


What alternatives? We're assuming DS would be good and Nunn would be healthy. If those two things don't pan out, then there are no alternatives.


Dennis also played a full season with LBJ/AD. Unlike Russ:

Lakers were 38-23 with Dennis starting in 20-21.

Lakers were 21-7 until AD's first injury.

AD/LBJ missed more games % wise in 20-21 than in 21-22, yet the Lakers finished with a 42-30 (48 win pace) season.

That's your alternative to Russ. Nunn by all accounts is cleared fully to return to play. We aren't taken hostage by Russ last season b/c I could agree with you last year, we had no choice. This year, we have 4 viable choices.


Great. Why not start DS then? Brick had a much worse record with Bron and AD last season than DS did the year before.


There's a lot of politics involved here. I hope the Lakers focus on facts over feelings, and wins over salaries. I think they know they will "lose" Russ if they don't let him start.

I truly believe having him as a 2nd unit lead is the best way to go but that may not be a viable choice. The Lakers literally saw Dennis perform much better in a worse COVID/injury year in 2020-21 but will still have to cater to #0 first.


Why would be losing Russ a problem for us. If Ham has the guts to call his own shots and own it, he should not let him start because we all know Russ is a bad fit on Lebron ball and atrocious at defense to boot. Hoping is not a strategy . I am not keen on Schroeder either but he’s a much better fit to start with and he looked good at Eurobasket . Let Russ off the bench and get into his own rhythm. The Lakers will not be in this conundrum if they not let politics got in the way. I know AD and his injury is a big factor but Russ is just not a good fit and it is what it is.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 12:41 pm    Post subject:

Russ, whacha doing kid?
https://mobile.twitter.com/DavidPortillo0/status/1577031109312860161
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 2:41 pm    Post subject:

hydrohead wrote:
Russ, whacha doing kid?
https://mobile.twitter.com/DavidPortillo0/status/1577031109312860161


making sure to give these "journalists" more ammo for their clickbate
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 3:07 pm    Post subject:

27 wrote:
hydrohead wrote:
Russ, whacha doing kid?
https://mobile.twitter.com/DavidPortillo0/status/1577031109312860161


making sure to give these "journalists" more ammo for their clickbate


Heh.
As long as he's still following the "Lakers" we have no reason to celebrate.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 10:20 pm    Post subject:

Played pretty well tonight. He already got way better driving lanes than he had last year.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 7:03 am    Post subject:

levon wrote:
Played pretty well tonight. He already got way better driving lanes than he had last year.


Russ with space is a hard handle. He can attack the rim consistently. Like lebron, the offense will benefit with shooters around him.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 7:04 am    Post subject:

He played well in his minutes last night. Kings obviously have a bad defensive team so the Suns should be a better barometer in a few days. Good to see him not just standing on offense and being involved in more movement.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 9:40 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
He played well in his minutes last night. Kings obviously have a bad defensive team so the Suns should be a better barometer in a few days. Good to see him not just standing on offense and being involved in more movement.


How did Reaves do last night, against the Kings bad defense.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 9:55 am    Post subject:

zambia wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
He played well in his minutes last night. Kings obviously have a bad defensive team so the Suns should be a better barometer in a few days. Good to see him not just standing on offense and being involved in more movement.


How did Reaves do last night, against the Kings bad defense.


He’s playing literally a different role with Ham. Seems they are trying to make him a primary ball handler.
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