Joined: 03 Oct 2003 Posts: 8351 Location: Santa Monica
Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2022 11:53 pm Post subject:
george w kush wrote:
slavavov wrote:
You have to let him handle the ball about half of the time just because he's so great in transition both as an attacker and as a passer.
Yeah no thanks.
BTW this is one of my all time favorite rants regarding Westbrook:
So you think he should never handle the ball and attack?
I know he's turnover-prone and mistake-prone, but if you relegate him to an off-the-ball player, you won't get any value out of him. He's pretty much useless without the ball.
I want the Lakers to trade Westbrook for some kind of viable value as much as anyone, but if he's still on the team, we have no choice but to find a way to maximize his one great strength, which is attacking with the ball, especially in transition, and either scoring or getting an open shot for a teammate.
Not letting him do that would be pretty much castrating him, and that would only make a bad situation even worse.
You have to let him handle the ball about half of the time just because he's so great in transition both as an attacker and as a passer.
Yeah no thanks.
BTW this is one of my all time favorite rants regarding Westbrook:
So you think he should never handle the ball and attack?
I know he's turnover-prone and mistake-prone, but if you relegate him to an off-the-ball player, you won't get any value out of him. He's pretty much useless without the ball.
I want the Lakers to trade Westbrook for some kind of viable value as much as anyone, but if he's still on the team, we have no choice but to find a way to maximize his one great strength, which is attacking with the ball, especially in transition, and either scoring or getting an open shot for a teammate.
Not letting him do that would be pretty much castrating him, and that would only make a bad situation even worse.
I don’t want to see another season of seeing transition turnovers like that for another season. He can’t shoot, has poor handles, misses dunks and layups, and is delusional in his thinking. If the Lakers can’t find a taker, maybe play him for a couple of weeks and it doesn’t work out you pay him to not play.
I'm tired of watching Lebron miss free throws with the game on the line. I think we should bench Lebron in the final 2 minutes that way I never have to watch him miss free throws.
I'm tired of watching Lebron miss free throws with the game on the line. I think we should bench Lebron in the final 2 minutes that way I never have to watch him miss free throws.
Yeah, no thanks
You realize how dumb you sound?
What’s dumb is comparing LBJ to Westbrook in any kind of way. One is a 4 time champ and the other has been on 4 teams in four years.
If Westbrook was making 20 million, he would have been traded by now.
You guys are acting like Westbrook’s market value is non-existent it’s been said that the Lakers have options and it’s multiple options if they wanted to trade Westbrook they would but they want the KD situation to get resolved.
If Westbrook was making 20 million, he would have been traded by now.
You guys are acting like Westbrook’s market value is non-existent it’s been said that the Lakers have options and it’s multiple options if they wanted to trade Westbrook they would but they want the KD situation to get resolved.
Everything is speculation and rumors right now. Whether the Lakers truly have multiple viable options is anyone's guess. Until Westbrook is actually traded, I am assuming he'll be the starting point guard for the Lakers this year.
The thing in keeping WB is there is a crutch for the FO.
Trading FO puts the onus 100% on the FO for the roster, and then 100% on AD/Bron/Klutch for results. If they don't do well without WB, they will be a lot of blame and changes demanded.
By keeping WB, the Lakers have the option of once again putting the next season on him. Sure they will make the play in/playoffs as a lower seed, and then they can put a lot of the season on WB's toxic contract limiting their roster moves etc etc.
For sure WB can be traded with some FRPs attached to him, but then this means post trade the Lakers are back to lofty expectations and AD/Bron need to be 2 of the top 5 players in the game regularly. I am not sure this is something the Lakers FO wants to fully commit to. The WB thing gives them a scapegoat IMO.
The thing in keeping WB is there is a crutch for the FO.
Trading FO puts the onus 100% on the FO for the roster, and then 100% on AD/Bron/Klutch for results. If they don't do well without WB, they will be a lot of blame and changes demanded.
By keeping WB, the Lakers have the option of once again putting the next season on him. Sure they will make the play in/playoffs as a lower seed, and then they can put a lot of the season on WB's toxic contract limiting their roster moves etc etc.
For sure WB can be traded with some FRPs attached to him, but then this means post trade the Lakers are back to lofty expectations and AD/Bron need to be 2 of the top 5 players in the game regularly. I am not sure this is something the Lakers FO wants to fully commit to. The WB thing gives them a scapegoat IMO.
The FO traded for Westbrook and assembled the roster. I don’t see why you think people would think the FO was off the hook if we kept Westbrook and had a bad season.
For sure WB can be traded with some FRPs attached to him, but then this means post trade the Lakers are back to lofty expectations and AD/Bron need to be 2 of the top 5 players in the game regularly. I am not sure this is something the Lakers FO wants to fully commit to. The WB thing gives them a scapegoat IMO.
The thing in keeping WB is there is a crutch for the FO.
Trading FO puts the onus 100% on the FO for the roster, and then 100% on AD/Bron/Klutch for results. If they don't do well without WB, they will be a lot of blame and changes demanded.
By keeping WB, the Lakers have the option of once again putting the next season on him. Sure they will make the play in/playoffs as a lower seed, and then they can put a lot of the season on WB's toxic contract limiting their roster moves etc etc.
For sure WB can be traded with some FRPs attached to him, but then this means post trade the Lakers are back to lofty expectations and AD/Bron need to be 2 of the top 5 players in the game regularly. I am not sure this is something the Lakers FO wants to fully commit to. The WB thing gives them a scapegoat IMO.
Russ and Vogel were the scapegoats last season. Vogel was fired. You can’t have a second term scapegoat in Russ as the onus is on the FO to get rid of Russ. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
Joined: 03 Oct 2003 Posts: 8351 Location: Santa Monica
Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2022 5:00 pm Post subject:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
The thing in keeping WB is there is a crutch for the FO.
Trading FO puts the onus 100% on the FO for the roster, and then 100% on AD/Bron/Klutch for results. If they don't do well without WB, they will be a lot of blame and changes demanded.
By keeping WB, the Lakers have the option of once again putting the next season on him. Sure they will make the play in/playoffs as a lower seed, and then they can put a lot of the season on WB's toxic contract limiting their roster moves etc etc.
For sure WB can be traded with some FRPs attached to him, but then this means post trade the Lakers are back to lofty expectations and AD/Bron need to be 2 of the top 5 players in the game regularly. I am not sure this is something the Lakers FO wants to fully commit to. The WB thing gives them a scapegoat IMO.
Not wanting to trade Westbrook for Irving just because the team may not win the championship and the FO may get blamed sounds like a loser's mentality.
Why should the team settle for making the playoffs and losing in the first round just so it can have a scapegoat?
I’m surprised that some here have a hard time believing that it is almost impossible to trade Russ. I remember comments that it would be easy to trade his ending contract but $47 mil is a lot to deal. I don’t believe that anyone wanted him when we traded for him and obviously no one wants him now. And we gave up a FRP to get him. Pelinka is terrible at his job.
It's remarkable how badly Westbrook's reputation has suffered in just over a year. From the perspective of July 2021, we weren't going to get Russell Westbrook for three role players. That would have been laughable. Yes, there were people who complained about the first-round pick even back then, but the trade just wasn't going to happen without the pick.
The problem with the trade wasn't the pick, but rather that the whole thing was a fundamentally bad idea. But Westbrook had an aura, and a lot of people were seduced by it (including Pelinka, Lebron, and Davis).
I actually feel a little bit sorry for Westbrook, though much of this has been his fault. If he had stayed in Washington, a lot of people would still think that he's a mythic figure. He might even have dragged the Wizards into the play-in tournament again. Instead, he came to the Lakers and got exposed on the biggest stage in the NBA. His legacy as a player may never fully recover.
Russ going insane in the 2nd half of the 2020-21 season, grabbing a player of the month award and all, was the catalyst and worst possible thing to happen given Lebron's apparent desire to play with him.
For sure WB can be traded with some FRPs attached to him, but then this means post trade the Lakers are back to lofty expectations and AD/Bron need to be 2 of the top 5 players in the game regularly. I am not sure this is something the Lakers FO wants to fully commit to. The WB thing gives them a scapegoat IMO.
You might just be overthinking this situation. Just a tad.
If the Lakers felt like in 2019 that they could go all out for AD/Bron, they would have this summer IMO. I think there are legit concerned (perhaps rightfully) how much AD/Bron have left in the tank in terms of winning a title. What you have right now is a roster that is easily seen as one that does not have the expectations to be a contender or even be a playoff lock. So making the playoffs? It will be seen as a net positive and some success. You trade WB, you attach picks, you now have a roster and focus where the elite standards are back.
I think there's a lot less pressure on the team this year. Unless they completely implode, they will be a little better and when they can't win, you can always point to having WB on the roster. I don't think this is a stetch.
The elite standards never left. If the front office ever points to Westbrook as the cause for failing to meet those standards, then the front office is blaming itself. Seriously, can you imagine Pelinka saying, "Sorry, but we were stuck with Westbrook for the season"? Westbrook is not a Get Out of Jail Free Card. He's a card that says Go to Jail, Go Directly to Jail, Do Not Pass Go, Do Not Collect $200. _________________ Internet Argument Resolved
I'm tired of watching Lebron miss free throws with the game on the line. I think we should bench Lebron in the final 2 minutes that way I never have to watch him miss free throws.
I'm tired of watching Lebron miss free throws with the game on the line. I think we should bench Lebron in the final 2 minutes that way I never have to watch him miss free throws.
Yeah, no thanks
You realize how dumb you sound?
T
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Sad to see this poster die on Russ island of all desolate places. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
How great would it be if Durant came to the realization that he has no leverage and is going to be traded anytime soon and goes back to management and tells them he would rather play with Westbrooke than Irving... _________________ “Always remember... Rumors are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots.”
Westbrook has made his money.
What what he should think about is his legacy.
Right now he is not hall of fame material.
Unless you consider empty stats all important.
Westbrook has to put team first.
He has to show he is a team player and not a me first player.
So far in his career it has been Westbrook first.
He has to relearn defense.
And be a team player on offense.
But old habits die hard.
I was watching old highlights of Russ vs. Last season.
He's still really fast and athletic.. But NOT as fast and athletic. When he was younger, he's was so ridiculous, he could usually pull a rabbit out of his a$$ and recover from a stupid decision... Now he can't. And we watched that all last season.
He has to SLOW DOWN and THINK! Especially with the ball in his hands. So careless! Oh yeah and how about at least try and play some defense? Thanks Brodie
I was watching old highlights of Russ vs. Last season.
He's still really fast and athletic.. But NOT as fast and athletic. When he was younger, he's was so ridiculous, he could usually pull a rabbit out of his a$$ and recover from a stupid decision... Now he can't. And we watched that all last season.
He has to SLOW DOWN and THINK! Especially with the ball in his hands. So careless! Oh yeah and how about at least try and play some defense? Thanks Brodie
Yup, he’s still pretty athletic….until you watch old tapes of him, then it’s obvious how much athleticism he’s lost. Westbrook 6-10 years ago was a freak of nature.
Similar to Bron, he still looks like moves decently for his age….until you watch him back in his prime. Prime Brons athleticism was from another planet….makes the one we got look like Kyle Anderson haha.
It’s too bad we don’t have the mid-late twenties versions of those 2 right now. We’d be demolishing the league
I was watching old highlights of Russ vs. Last season.
He's still really fast and athletic.. But NOT as fast and athletic. When he was younger, he's was so ridiculous, he could usually pull a rabbit out of his a$$ and recover from a stupid decision... Now he can't. And we watched that all last season.
He has to SLOW DOWN and THINK! Especially with the ball in his hands. So careless! Oh yeah and how about at least try and play some defense? Thanks Brodie
Yup, he’s still pretty athletic….until you watch old tapes of him, then it’s obvious how much athleticism he’s lost. Westbrook 6-10 years ago was a freak of nature.
Similar to Bron, he still looks like moves decently for his age….until you watch him back in his prime. Prime Brons athleticism was from another planet….makes the one we got look like Kyle Anderson haha.
It’s too bad we don’t have the mid-late twenties versions of those 2 right now. We’d be demolishing the league
Like Kobe and other great players
1) In the beginning their freakish athletic abilities allowed them to successfully compensate/overcome the lack of Basketball IQ.
2) At the end of their careers, their high Basketball IQ allowed them to successfuly compensate for their decline in freakish athletic abilities
Will Westbrook be a HOFer in the future - yes.
Will he be known as a player that helped others become great - No
Will he be known as a player that has a Ring - No
Sadly, his Basketball IQ has disappeared - as noted when he makes countless Free Ball TOs, makes rookie mistakes like jumping in the air with nowhere to go, his shots go off the side of the backyard/miss the basket entirely, doesn't value every possession (hallmark of a title-winning team - see Boston's many "excuses" / their "reasons" why they didn't beat the Warriors), undisciplined - hence unable to go deep into playoffs and doesn't want to play defense.
Great basketball players have high expectations, Westbrook has no expectations - as he has clearly stated
Sad seeing a player trying to play like he is at the peak of his athletic abilities but can't because he is unable to perform at the highlest levels.
Westbrook's best move is to play with a non-title contending team with little scrutiny form the general public that will forgive the countless unforced TOs he make when a hint of athletic abilities is shown.
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