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activeverb
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
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 Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2021 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Batguano wrote: | | You seem confident that you're speaking for the majority. I can't say that I agree. |
I do feel that is the dominant sentiment in Lakerland, especially on places like LG where the most heavily invested Lakers fans congregate. We are, if nothing else, an incredibly self-entitled fan base. It's cool if we disagree, though. |
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2021 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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| MikeTrout wrote: | Last season started a year ago today.
But apparently this season is already over for this team. |
They are almost at the halfway point of the season, under .500 and have suffered injuries to significant players on their roster. AD won't be back for a couple of weeks and meanwhile they are falling further behind in the standings. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2021 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | MikeTrout wrote: | Last season started a year ago today.
But apparently this season is already over for this team. |
They are almost at the halfway point of the season, under .500 and have suffered injuries to significant players on their roster. AD won't be back for a couple of weeks and meanwhile they are falling further behind in the standings. |
Things aren't looking good for us at this point. That said, right now we are the 6th seed, so I don't see a reason to throw in the towel. I am not expecting us to win a ring, or even get to the finals, or even to the conference finals. But a lot can still happen between now and the playoffs. |
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WC13
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| Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2021 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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I don't get how people can judge this team when there have been injuries and protocol. Ariza, for example, just came back.
Most every player has been out at some point.
Is there any other team ever that played under these conditions and won every game and the title?
Edit: Also curious, I see people saying how great Caruso and KCP and Kuzma and others were...why didn't the Lakers win it all last year with that team? Or any other team with all those great players the Lakers have traded? |
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lakersboy
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Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 8518
Location: Left coast
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| Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2021 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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| AD23 wrote: | LOL .... it's almost like you guys forgot that the Lakers "GUTTED" the team to land Shaq. Then dumped Van Exel, Eddie, and Seldom to win the ring.
I love this revisionist history. |
They absolutely didn’t gut the team to get Shaq. Revisionist history is in your post.
They had to get rid of sg Anthony Peeler and underwhelming pf George Lynch to afford Shaq. They also traded Vlade for Kobe. That’s not gutting the team.
Shaq was 24. Fisher was a rookie. They still had sg Eddie, and pg Nick, and pf/c Campbell. They brought in Horry for Ceballos and signed Fox. All were young players. They didn’t waste assets, nor did they give away draft picks like Halloween candy.
Shaq demanded that the team choose between him or dumping Van Exel. Campbell & Eddie is a trade I still hate because they were on a 10 game win streak with Derek Harper & others. They traded Campbell & Jones for Rice & JR Reid. They began losing and Rambis was fired. I agreed with Derek Harper that the team could have won if that trade wasn’t made. |
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lakersboy
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Joined: 20 Jul 2006
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Location: Left coast
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| Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2021 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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| WC13 wrote: | | I don't get how people can judge this team when there have been injuries and protocol. |
Ask AD. He told the media after a loss a while ago that the team sucks. |
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lakersboy
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| Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2021 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Batguano wrote: |
Sounds more like Lakers fan entitlement. Anyone who looks back at 1 championship in the LeBron/AD era with a shrug or as some sort of "underachievement" doesn't know their Lakers history very well since that's the same results we got in the West/Baylor/Wilt Era. which spanned nearly two decades (60's and the 70's).
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I excitedly watched and enjoyed the Lakers trying to win a ring the year before Wilt & West got one. After they won in ‘72, a young friend summed up my feelings when he asked me “now what?” For the next 8 years, no fan that I’m aware of purchased tickets for the privilege of staring at an old championship banner. Each year, we wanted to be entertained to the best of the team’s ability. They didn’t have to win every year, but I wanted everyone in the organization to do their best. It was exciting in ‘77 when they had three 1st rd picks and drafted Kenny Carr, Bard Davis, Norm Nixon, & James Edwards in the 3rd rd. The next year they drafted Earl Tatum and we hoped. I believe he and Edwards were traded for Adrian Dantley. They weren’t winning it all but they became highly competitive and were in the conversation even before Magic. Fans were loving it.
During the 12 year title drought from ‘88 to 2000, it would have been ugly and unenjoyable if they’d sold the opportunity to draft Vlade, Campbell, Van Exel, Peeler, Jones, & Fisher, while yearly signing crappy, underperforming, has been mercenaries. I assure you that people who can be happy with that kind of product are called Clippers fans, and they’ve rooted in a half filled, old arena, where one die hard guy could be heard chanting “Let’s go, Clippers.”
Hope is what puts butts in the seats each year, not banners from yesteryear.
Now, 6 former picks are gone and there’s no cap space. Davis is brittle/injury prone, not THE answer, and is clearly unwilling to work as hard as he used to. Lebron is old and can no longer do it with spare parts beside him. Westbrook is wild, getting old, and has been exposed as a stat chaser, not a difference maker. The rest of the squad isn’t even worth addressing. Clearly, the answer isn’t within and the future is ugly.
Last edited by lakersboy on Fri Dec 24, 2021 10:30 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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lakersboy
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| Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2021 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | Batguano wrote: |
Sounds more like Lakers fan entitlement. Anyone who looks back at 1 championship in the LeBron/AD era with a shrug or as some sort of "underachievement" doesn't know their Lakers history very well since that's the same results we got in the West/Baylor/Wilt Era. which spanned nearly two decades (60's and the 70's). |
Lakers fans are entitled. People don't really care about the 60s and 70s.
A lot of people here think of the Lakers "standard" as the 6 rings won in 9 years during Showtime, and the 5 rings won in the 11 years from 2000-2010.
There are a good number of people here who think anything less than 3 titles every 10 years is failure.
I mean, we just won a title after a 10-year draught and fans are already complaining, "Is that all?" |
Please tell me what fan goes to a game not caring if the team gets blown out, because “at least they have a banner on the wall?” That’s not realistic for any team in any sport. We expect the organization’s best effort, from top to bottom. If something prevents that, it’s unacceptable. In the Lakers’ case, mgmt decisions have turned this team into a shell of itself a ver short period of time. |
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lakersboy
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| Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2021 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: |
For better or for worse, Jeanie and Pelinka are committed to that mindset. Maybe they can pull off another massive free agent signing. If they don't, the fan base will turn on them even more than it has so far. |
I think Jeanie and Rob are doomed because of the expectations set by the success of Kareem, Magic, Shaq, and Kobe. We had close to a 35-years streak where we had one and often two GOAT level players leading us to 10 rings.
Given how the NBA is today, we will probably never see that level of sustained success again. If fans complain because all they managed to do is get Lebron and AD and win one ring, their chances of ever being seen as anything more than a disappointment are very small. |
If Jeanie and Pelinka’s way of doing business is doomed, it’s because you can’t speed up the growth process. There’s no such thing as winning a ring every year. Sometimes you have to reload, let your product grow, and then try it again. In the 70’s it was 8 years in between rings. In the 80’s, it was 12. Kobe waited 7 between his rings, and then it was a another 10 years. Now they’ve convinced themselves that the best way to do it is follow Lebron’s recipe of getting rid of all assets and going for it, but that’s not working anymore. |
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lakersboy
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| Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2021 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Batguano wrote: | | Sounds more like Lakers fan entitlement. |
This doesn’t make it any less real. If we fall short this year, we will have made the Finals once and won the title once in twelve years. That’s what Laker fans will perceive. |
The Lakers front office drives the narrative that the only thing Lakers fans care about is winning rings. The media parrots that narrative. That’s a claim that doesn’t come with measurable proof. Lakers fans have proved differently by packing the Forum and Staples Center for many of the years, even when the team had no chance of winning.
Of course we want a ring. When they get it, they enjoy bragging rights and root for more. In reality, Lakers fans aren’t fair weather fans and have never given up on the team just because they don’t win. There have been many of those years. |
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WC13
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| Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2021 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersboy wrote: | | WC13 wrote: | | I don't get how people can judge this team when there have been injuries and protocol. |
Ask AD. He told the media after a loss a while ago that the team sucks. |
Well yeah, of course they do.
I'd be surprised if they didn't suck. In fact, that they are in 6th place is a miracle considering the injuries and protocol. |
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roger_federer
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Joined: 01 Mar 2020
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| Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2021 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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| WC13 wrote: | | lakersboy wrote: | | WC13 wrote: | | I don't get how people can judge this team when there have been injuries and protocol. |
Ask AD. He told the media after a loss a while ago that the team sucks. |
Well yeah, of course they do.
I'd be surprised if they didn't suck. In fact, that they are in 6th place is a miracle considering the injuries and protocol. |
Its not a miracle. They played the easiest schedule |
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BLF2145
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| Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2021 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| I think we can all agree that of the aging superstars and ability to lead a team during tough times, LBJ can no longer hold a candle to Curry. That is someone that’s shoulders were built to carry a team. |
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kwase
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| Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2021 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersboy wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Batguano wrote: | | Sounds more like Lakers fan entitlement. |
This doesn’t make it any less real. If we fall short this year, we will have made the Finals once and won the title once in twelve years. That’s what Laker fans will perceive. |
The Lakers front office drives the narrative that the only thing Lakers fans care about is winning rings. The media parrots that narrative. That’s a claim that doesn’t come with measurable proof. Lakers fans have proved differently by packing the Forum and Staples Center for many of the years, even when the team had no chance of winning.
Of course we want a ring. When they get it, they enjoy bragging rights and root for more. In reality, Lakers fans aren’t fair weather fans and have never given up on the team just because they don’t win. There have been many of those years. |
That's a great point. This team is borderline unwatchable. We got two stat-padders that don't play defense, turn the ball over a lot, can't make free throws and have shaky jump shots. Then you got Carmelo...all he does is shoot jumpers and he doesn't play defense either. AD looks fat. DJ should have retired last year. I don't see anybody out there setting screens, diving for loose balls, cutting to the basket or running plays. I'm sick and tired of seeing players complain to the refs and not get back on defense...back in the day guys would get benched for that. How many times do I have to watch the guy bringing the ball up either dribble, dribble, dribble and go one-on-one, or pass the ball and just stand there. Then when we do get a lead we're out there bumping chests and dancing like clowns as if the game is over or we just won the championship. When Dwight and some rookie you've never heard of before are your favorite players on the team, it's not like you're gonna get excited about watching the game. It's not about us winning a chip every year, it's about putting a product on the floor that we feel good rooting for. I loved those Nick, Eddie, Ceballos days. They were fun to watch. Also watching Kobe climb back to the top was very satisfying (Him beating the celtics doesn't hurt either). But you can't get behind a team that changes half the players every year, led by a guy that seems to have a problem with developing a nurturing young talent. |
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Drifts
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Joined: 22 Nov 2004
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| Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2021 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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| AD23 wrote: | LOL .... it's almost like you guys forgot that the Lakers "GUTTED" the team to land Shaq. Then dumped Van Exel, Eddie, and Seldom to win the ring.
I love this revisionist history. |
 
_________________
"Now, if life is coffee, then the jobs, money & position in society are the cups. They are just tools to hold & contain life, but the quality of life doesn't change. Sometimes, by concentrating only on the cup, we fail to enjoy the coffee in it." |
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Drifts
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| Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2021 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Batguano wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | lakersboy wrote: | | When it comes to the Lakers, I don’t just enjoy the championship series, I’ve enjoyed the process. I enjoy seeing them succeed with West, Wilt, Goodrich, Kareem, MJ, Nixon, Coop, Wilkes, Landsberger, Worthy, Scott, Rambis, Vlade, Eldon, Van Exel, Ceballos, Eddie, Peeler, Shaq, Kobe, Fisher, Horry, Fox, George, Luke, Cook, Bynum, (young) Trevor, Pau, Lamar, & Artest. |
I think Lakers fans idea of "the process" is signing a GOAT level free agent while quickly there after drafting a GOAT-level player (a la Kareem/Magic and Shaq/Kobe). I don't perceive this as a fanbase that enjoys rebuilding or watching players slowly maturate over a long period of time. |
Yep. Rebuilding is something that happens to other teams. Since 2000, we've gone through this twice: 2005-2007 and 2012 to 2019. The fanbase lost its mind both times. I've said many times that the bubble title was the minimum acceptable result from the Lebron window and that, if we don't win another title in the Lebron window, Laker fans would look back on this period and shrug. There were people who insisted that I was wrong. Well, we're already beginning to see the shrugs.
For better or for worse, Jeanie and Pelinka are committed to that mindset. Maybe they can pull off another massive free agent signing. If they don't, the fan base will turn on them even more than it has so far. |
Sounds more like Lakers fan entitlement. Anyone who looks back at 1 championship in the LeBron/AD era with a shrug or as some sort of "underachievement" doesn't know their Lakers history very well since that's the same results we got in the West/Baylor/Wilt Era. which spanned nearly two decades (60's and the 70's).
Hell, LeBron in his prime, playing in the weak East, team-jumping multiple times barely won 3. If that's the case then the KD Warriors winning "only" 2 (and 3 overall) is a letdown. The Heatles winning "only" 2 is a letdown. And we could go on and on... Winning a championship is hard, and yet the Lakers have managed to do it more than any other franchise in the past 20 years, in the modern era, and have equalled the Celtics for most ever (while making 32 Finals to their 21).
In the league's 75 year history the Lakers have made the Finals 43% of the time and won the championship 23% of the time. Get a grip. |
it's because Kobe-Shaq won 3, then Kobe won 2 back-to-back with a broken hand, with no other superstar on the team, only decent players in tow
Lebron and AD has so far been a disappointment. Then they proceeded to play GM, and eff the whole system. Not only did they play GM, they've been playing coach as well.
_________________
"Now, if life is coffee, then the jobs, money & position in society are the cups. They are just tools to hold & contain life, but the quality of life doesn't change. Sometimes, by concentrating only on the cup, we fail to enjoy the coffee in it." |
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