Worldwide Coronavirus Thread (US death toll passes 1 Million - that's right, 1 Million dead)
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Omar Little
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:53 pm    Post subject:

I actually find it’s not about freedom either. Most of these folks are deeply authoritarian. They want, need to be told what to do, but only by their tribal leaders, who they want to exact fealty and/or revenge from or on the other tribes. It’s not justice but just us.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:01 pm    Post subject:

slavavov wrote:
angrypuppy wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
One shocking thing I’ve come to learn about a lot of successful conservatives, like business owners and execs, is that outside of their field of expertise, they have the same stupendous lack of information or even curiosity about much of the world as their brethren among the rural rube stereotype.



That's an ugly truth. Some otherwise intelligent people who are either execs or entrepreneurs have a blind spot when it comes to politics. You know how it starts? "So what news channel do you watch?"

Successful or mediocre, I don't think any of these conservatives are dumb per se (or at least as dumb as some of us may think). It's more like willful ignorance and a desire to own the libs.

I think there are plenty of really intelligent and educated conservatives. The problem is that they've locked themselves into an echo chamber.

They're like a pet parakeet who you want to come out of his cage and fly around, but he refuses because he's scared of what's outside of his cage, even though birds aren't supposed to like being cooped up in a cage.


I think the very clear reality is that the vast majority intelligent and educated conservatives have surrendered their ethics and intellectual honesty in favor of pursuing power at the expense of decency, democracy and lawfulness. They got a glimpse of someone trying to subvert the nation in pursuit of tyranny and fascism to their advantage and became rabid about the possibilities presented by that.

It's not a matter of ignorance or intelligence. It's a matter of surrendering integrity due to greed and an obsession with personal agenda.
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slavavov
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:59 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
slavavov wrote:
angrypuppy wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
One shocking thing I’ve come to learn about a lot of successful conservatives, like business owners and execs, is that outside of their field of expertise, they have the same stupendous lack of information or even curiosity about much of the world as their brethren among the rural rube stereotype.



That's an ugly truth. Some otherwise intelligent people who are either execs or entrepreneurs have a blind spot when it comes to politics. You know how it starts? "So what news channel do you watch?"

Successful or mediocre, I don't think any of these conservatives are dumb per se (or at least as dumb as some of us may think). It's more like willful ignorance and a desire to own the libs.

I think there are plenty of really intelligent and educated conservatives. The problem is that they've locked themselves into an echo chamber.

They're like a pet parakeet who you want to come out of his cage and fly around, but he refuses because he's scared of what's outside of his cage, even though birds aren't supposed to like being cooped up in a cage.


I think the very clear reality is that the vast majority intelligent and educated conservatives have surrendered their ethics and intellectual honesty in favor of pursuing power at the expense of decency, democracy and lawfulness. They got a glimpse of someone trying to subvert the nation in pursuit of tyranny and fascism to their advantage and became rabid about the possibilities presented by that.

It's not a matter of ignorance or intelligence. It's a matter of surrendering integrity due to greed and an obsession with personal agenda.

Agreed. Like Omar said above, these people are authoritarians, and now they're also anti-democratic (small d of course). The conservative movement has also attracted people who, above all, are narcissistic and/or selfish.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:28 am    Post subject:

I don't know whether or not this has already been posted.

Another anti vaxer dies from COVID 19. These deaths should be encouragement to get vaccinated. When will they learn?

Yahoo News Video
Another radio host who urged listeners to boycott COVID-19 vaccines dies from the virus


LINK
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:32 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
I don't know whether or not this has already been posted.

Another anti vaxer dies from COVID 19. These deaths should be encouragement to get vaccinated. When will they learn?

Yahoo News Video
Another radio host who urged listeners to boycott COVID-19 vaccines dies from the virus


LINK


meh.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:13 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
I actually find it’s not about freedom either. Most of these folks are deeply authoritarian. They want, need to be told what to do, but only by their tribal leaders, who they want to exact fealty and/or revenge from or on the other tribes. It’s not justice but just us.


I don't know that it's about freedom as much as it's a general "you can't tell me!" kind of immaturity at times. For instance, this came to a head when Trump tried to praise the vaccines for a moment and they boo'd at his rally. I think the leadership kind of realizes that they actually can't tell this group what to do on this issue.

Your use of the word "tribal" certainly fits.

The bulk of the problem to me comes down to two groups. (There are exceptions, of course, and can be anything from just basic fear, apathy, etc.). But the two groups that have dug in with large numbers I've referred to as MAGA and Magic.

MAGA - There is an unhealthy, ego-driven mix here of the rights of the individual (that I as a member of this group define) and the herd mentality. Indeed, very tribal. Not your modernist/centrist conservatives. See the red states tragically getting hammered right now. This is the can't be told MAGA flag waving folks that think this is another culture war against the libs. And, yes, their leadership and media have stoked those fires. So now partisan blinders are making health choices for people. This is the herd mentality part at play. It's tragic.

Magic - This is a mix of left and right that is generally anti-science and often pro-tribal (by that I actually mean tribal culture with it's strong affinity toward magic). Correlation to this group implies causation. Data is difficult to digest. Sample sizes small. They believe in "magic" which comes in many forms, but in this it manifests itself in the magical power of X that will cure them/protect them and they will look for anything as a solution other than science. This isn't just odd things like hydroxychloroquine popping up, but also things like oregano oil, weed, crystals, etc. that are touted and, of course, being ignored as the real cure. Unfortunately, there is a massive dose of narcissism attached to whatever magic cure that science is somehow willfully ignoring because of (fill in the blank). There is little to no respect/understanding for what it takes to be an expert and the process it took to get there and how data is evaluated. This has been going on for a while. The internet is literally killing us here.

There are exceptions, of course. But these two groups were large, loud and vocal from the start, and the most egocentric of them continue to be loud and vocal. If they had 24 hours to walk in someone else's shoes who is suffering from Covid, they'd gain a new perspective, which is currently impossible for them to imagine...because they struggle with taking on the perspectives of others to begin with.

In a week or so we will hit 700,000 deaths in the U.S., not even factoring the complete excess death figures impacted by this. Oof.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:30 pm    Post subject:

DancingBarry wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
I actually find it’s not about freedom either. Most of these folks are deeply authoritarian. They want, need to be told what to do, but only by their tribal leaders, who they want to exact fealty and/or revenge from or on the other tribes. It’s not justice but just us.


I don't know that it's about freedom as much as it's a general "you can't tell me!" kind of immaturity at times. For instance, this came to a head when Trump tried to praise the vaccines for a moment and they boo'd at his rally. I think the leadership kind of realizes that they actually can't tell this group what to do on this issue.

Your use of the word "tribal" certainly fits.

The bulk of the problem to me comes down to two groups. (There are exceptions, of course, and can be anything from just basic fear, apathy, etc.). But the two groups that have dug in with large numbers I've referred to as MAGA and Magic.

MAGA - There is an unhealthy, ego-driven mix here of the rights of the individual (that I as a member of this group define) and the herd mentality. Indeed, very tribal. Not your modernist/centrist conservatives. See the red states tragically getting hammered right now. This is the can't be told MAGA flag waving folks that think this is another culture war against the libs. And, yes, their leadership and media have stoked those fires. So now partisan blinders are making health choices for people. This is the herd mentality part at play. It's tragic.

Magic - This is a mix of left and right that is generally anti-science and often pro-tribal (by that I actually mean tribal culture with it's strong affinity toward magic). Correlation to this group implies causation. Data is difficult to digest. Sample sizes small. They believe in "magic" which comes in many forms, but in this it manifests itself in the magical power of X that will cure them/protect them and they will look for anything as a solution other than science. This isn't just odd things like hydroxychloroquine popping up, but also things like oregano oil, weed, crystals, etc. that are touted and, of course, being ignored as the real cure. Unfortunately, there is a massive dose of narcissism attached to whatever magic cure that science is somehow willfully ignoring because of (fill in the blank). There is little to no respect/understanding for what it takes to be an expert and the process it took to get there and how data is evaluated. This has been going on for a while. The internet is literally killing us here.

There are exceptions, of course. But these two groups were large, loud and vocal from the start, and the most egocentric of them continue to be loud and vocal. If they had 24 hours to walk in someone else's shoes who is suffering from Covid, they'd gain a new perspective, which is currently impossible for them to imagine...because they struggle with taking on the perspectives of others to begin with.

In a week or so we will hit 700,000 deaths in the U.S., not even factoring the complete excess death figures impacted by this. Oof.


The problem predates that. I guarantee that if Trump, while still on office last summer, had embraced the idea of masks and taking the virus seriously, that first group you speak of, the MAGAts, would be behaving very differently. He could have used their passion for conspiracy and made a campaign that the "China Virus" as he called it was part of a liberal plot to wipeout their opponents. Those Red Hat MFer's would have been patrolling the streets making sure everyone was wearing a mask.

The second group you speak of, they would definitely still be weary of the vaccine, but we would only have them to worry about.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:14 pm    Post subject:

Looks like Cali is requiring proof of vaccination or a negative test (within 72 hours) for anyone wanting to attend a bar, club, winery or outdoor event (baseball/football game/concert,etc) Beginning 10/7.

I'm all for this. But you know there will be some pushback.
Yet, my kids can't go to school unless they have all their immunizations.... smh.

*** I took a pic of my vax card and have it on my phone. But isn't there some type of QR code or something we can get that is more official for a situation like this? I plan on attending a few Rams games soon and don't want to be scrolling thru my photo gallery if I can help it. Anyone know?
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:32 pm    Post subject:

PLATNUM wrote:
Looks like Cali is requiring proof of vaccination or a negative test (within 72 hours) for anyone wanting to attend a bar, club, winery or outdoor event (baseball/football game/concert,etc) Beginning 10/7.

I'm all for this. But you know there will be some pushback.
Yet, my kids can't go to school unless they have all their immunizations.... smh.

*** I took a pic of my vax card and have it on my phone. But isn't there some type of QR code or something we can get that is more official for a situation like this? I plan on attending a few Rams games soon and don't want to be scrolling thru my photo gallery if I can help it. Anyone know?


I have heard there are some registries were such data can be directly linked, but I haven't researched the particulars because it seems it is tied to particular health networks.

In the meantime, I have a photo of my Vax card stored as a Note on my phone for immediate access.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:08 pm    Post subject:

This is why Gavin Newsom beat the recall in a landslide.

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California is currently experiencing the lowest case rate of COVID infections in the nation. It's the only state with the lower transmission classification from the CDC.

https://twitter.com/KTVU/status/1438356982034018304?s=19
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:23 am    Post subject:

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A head-to-head study of all three authorized coronavirus vaccines in the United States finds the Moderna vaccine is slightly more effective than Pfizer's in real-life use in keeping people out of the hospital, and Johnson & Johnson's Janssen vaccine comes in third, but still providing 71% protection.

Pfizer's vaccine provided 88% protection against hospitalization, and Moderna's was 93% effective.

The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention led a nationwide study of vaccination involving more than 3,600 adults hospitalized for Covid-19 between March and August.

CNN
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:36 am    Post subject:

32 wrote:
This is why Gavin Newsom beat the recall in a landslide.

Quote:
California is currently experiencing the lowest case rate of COVID infections in the nation. It's the only state with the lower transmission classification from the CDC.

https://twitter.com/KTVU/status/1438356982034018304?s=19

I disagree.

he beat Elder because he was able to pin Elder as being the trumptard he is.

He didn't have to debate on policy which wouldn't have mattered because elder was so clearly unqualified.

Californians for the most part are intelligent. Most of us believe in science. Getting us to get vaccinated....the smart ones wasn't tough. OBVIOUSLY, Gavin helped that and I certainly think he did a good job of managing this crisis, but I am not a business owner so I can only judge him from my perspective. I do know business owners who are blue that had a lot of issues with him especially how he communicated us through this. But he was solid IMHO.

In 2022 the hope is that this recall will have brought some viable options to the forefront where he will have to debate his policy/money allocation etc. But if the dem machine, run by Pelosi out here blocks quality candidates and we are stuck with trash like Villragosas, Jenner types unfortunately he will be our Gov.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:45 am    Post subject:

Positive results on COVID handling, strong Democratic turnout helped Newsom, exit poll shows

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SAN FRANCISCO (KGO) -- ABC News exit poll results are revealing the top concerns for voters in the California recall election of Gov. Gavin Newsom.

Governor Newsom received positive results on his handling of the pandemic and a huge turnout advantage among Democrats.

The polling data shows 31% of voters called the pandemic the state's top issue and 80% of those voters supported keeping Newsom in office.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:00 pm    Post subject:

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The FDA’s vaccine advisers have rejected Pfizer’s request to add a third booster shot to its two-dose regimen. Vote was 16 to 2.

https://mobile.twitter.com/kaitlancollins/status/1438951205229760518
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:14 pm    Post subject:

32 wrote:
Quote:
The FDA’s vaccine advisers have rejected Pfizer’s request to add a third booster shot to its two-dose regimen. Vote was 16 to 2.

https://mobile.twitter.com/kaitlancollins/status/1438951205229760518

Next week I’m sure this changes. The one thing I’ve learned from this is the messaging out of the gate first isn’t where we land.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 3:51 pm    Post subject:

32 wrote:
Quote:
The FDA’s vaccine advisers have rejected Pfizer’s request to add a third booster shot to its two-dose regimen. Vote was 16 to 2.

https://mobile.twitter.com/kaitlancollins/status/1438951205229760518
Boosters didn't really make sense to me if it's not modified in any way. Mutations will soon evade the current formula.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:04 pm    Post subject:

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Vaccine advisers to the US Food and Drug Administration voted Friday to recommend emergency use authorization of a booster dose of Pfizer's vaccine six months to people 65 and older and those at high risk of severe Covid-19 six months after they get their first two shots.


LINK
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 7:39 am    Post subject:

James Surowiecki
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Antivaxxers' affection for Regeneron is fascinating. It's under an EUA, and is not FDA-approved. It's a new technology. Its clinical trials started just before the trials for the vaxxes, so we have no idea what the long-term effects of taking it are. And yet antivaxxers love it.
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Omar Little
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 8:14 am    Post subject:

xxsicrokerxx wrote:
32 wrote:
Quote:
The FDA’s vaccine advisers have rejected Pfizer’s request to add a third booster shot to its two-dose regimen. Vote was 16 to 2.

https://mobile.twitter.com/kaitlancollins/status/1438951205229760518
Boosters didn't really make sense to me if it's not modified in any way. Mutations will soon evade the current formula.


So why take the vaccine at all, or any? I mean, why date or get married, if at some future time there might be a change and she leaves? Perhaps because a third shot of the current vaccine tremendously boosts antibodies in the immunocompromised? And works right now, while all the complete unvaxxed are wandering around spreading their questions, and Delta?
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 8:23 am    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
James Surowiecki
@JamesSurowiecki
Antivaxxers' affection for Regeneron is fascinating. It's under an EUA, and is not FDA-approved. It's a new technology. Its clinical trials started just before the trials for the vaxxes, so we have no idea what the long-term effects of taking it are. And yet antivaxxers love it.


"I ain't gettin' no vaccination when we don't know what's in it!"

Says, the guy eating a generic hot dog and swilling it down with a can of some soda filled with chemicals and taking a cocktail of livestock dewormer and fish tank cleaner . . .
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 9:40 am    Post subject:

Although dumbassery knows no bounds, in the anti-vax community, it seems to be concentrated in hillbillies & rubenecks.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 10:25 am    Post subject:

FernieBee wrote:
Although dumbassery knows no bounds, in the anti-vax community, it seems to be concentrated in hillbillies & rubenecks.



Actually, that’s the new antivaxx community. The existing one, and the one that is far more dangerous to the less informed and impressionable, is the alternative medicine cohort, spurred on by an industry of well educated and dishonest snake oil merchants. They are the ones who have developed all the questioning techniques. A lot of the propaganda the politically motivated new anti vaxxers are using is stuff developed by their naturopathic brethren. It’s easy to google and use to backfill their ideologically driven resistance.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 12:26 pm    Post subject:

I've noticed how good some anti-vax propagandists are at stringing words together to make their arguments. However, their arguments tend to fall apart when facts are thrown at them. Nevertheless, their sophistry continues.

Rat bastards!
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 12:33 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Here's How One Of Facebook's Biggest Anti-Vax Communities Built Its Massive Network

Larry Cook, the former executive director of the California Naturopathic Doctors Association, is the owner of stopmandatoryvaccination.com. The website is a one-stop shop for anti-vaxxers. It hosts articles, embeds from Cook's YouTube channel, advertisements for anti-vax books and documentaries, a directory of medical professionals who oppose vaccination, and, of course, a donation button. Cook has raised nearly $80,000 on GoFundMe since 2015. On his page, he claims he's spent about $35,000 of that on Facebook ads over the last four years.

According to an analysis by BuzzSumo, a website that tracks sharing across social media, stopmandatoryvaccination.com has had about 400,000 engagements on Facebook in the last year, with an article getting about 7,000 engagements on average. The most shared article in the last year was published last February. It's a story about a real court case titled "$250,000 Awarded to Parents After Their Healthy Infant Is Killed by Vaccines," and it has about 70,000 engagements on Facebook.

Like most digital publishers — anti-vax or not — the key to getting articles to proliferate across the internet is via a website's Facebook page or Facebook group. The Stop Mandatory Vaccination Facebook page has about 125,000 followers and the private Group attached to it is one of the larger anti-vax communities on Facebook with about 150,000 members.

As for why Stop Mandatory Vaccinations, and the pages and groups like it, have become so popular on Facebook over the last few years, Cook told BuzzFeed News he believes it's because pro-vaccine advocates don't attempt to reach anyone on social media.

"The hardcore pro-vaccine advocates do not create content, Page and Groups, that attract large followers to Facebook since that line of thinking is already the common conversation and agreement in mainstream media and the public eye," Cook said.


BuzzFeed News
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:52 am    Post subject:

Taking my dad to have his booster/third dose later today.

He's so excited.
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