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mj32
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Joined: 07 Jul 2012
Posts: 585
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 Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersboy wrote: | | CandyCanes wrote: | | XTC wrote: | | lakersboy wrote: |
This is literally the first time I’m not happy about the team after following them since ‘70. |
First time? You've been a lot more patient than I have been. Been following since '79. I can see that Lakers will probably get a marketing deal with Geritol given the age right now, but I'm actually looking forward to the season. There have been many ups and downs -- I've got to say I wasn't exactly thrilled that one year when Tierre Brown, Brian Grant, and Chucky Atkins were on the team. |
You enjoyed the Ronnie Price and Robert Sacre days? |
No. But I always looked forward to the lottery when the year was done. It happened for so many years after watching garbage ball, but I hoped for the new guys. If that wasn’t going to work out, I hoped for the next lotto. Tinkering Pelinka has decided picks don’t matter and made sure he’s given away everything in the foreseeable future, as well as all young talent except THT. If I’m smart, I wont get attached to him anymore than I do the other mercenaries who appear and disappear each year. This year my favorite player should be Jared Dudley since he’s been on the team 2 years. |
Oh yeah those lottery years were fun! Not!!! |
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mj32
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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This thread is why everyone makes fun of Laker fans.
I liked Carusso(sometimes) but you act like we just lost Larry Birrd for nothing.
Last edited by mj32 on Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:35 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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lakersboy
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Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 8518
Location: Left coast
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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| mj32 wrote: | This thread is why everyone makes fun of Laker fans.
I liked Carusso(sometimes) but you act like we just lost Larry Birf for nothing. |
So you’re happy with the free agent haul? Enjoy the season. |
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epic_
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Joined: 23 Jan 2020
Posts: 11310
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for everything Alex!
I wish you the best in your future endeavors.
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Ksig
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Joined: 03 Dec 2016
Posts: 2093
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Lurkernomore wrote: | | BandwagonLBJhopper wrote: | So so dumb. If you don't want to retain the guy, sign him and deal him later - clearly if you pay him in the full MLE range teams will still value him highly. No reason not to keep him for that reason alone.
I just don't understand the logic of having guys like Caruso, Randle, etc. and just letting them walk for nothing. Asset management is crucial in our situation with no picks, hell you would want his contract for a midseason trade if nothing else.
Just so, so stupid to try and save $$$. If Lebron and AD were smart they would see straight through the penny pinching on lux tax. |
I don't mind seeing AC go, but for nothing? With the Lakers so limited in what they can do to add players, allowing AC to just walk is plain stupid! I never felt the same love for Pelinka as some posters here. The first year, he and Magic didn't think we needed shooters. Then, when they realized that was wrong, they panicked and traded Zu for Muscala and Svi for Bullock. He bid against himself to get AD and RW. Can someone say overpay?! And now, he is essentially forfeiting one of the few ways we can actually get someone above the vet min signings. WTF?!! |
I agree. Last season I felt like he made sensible upgrades to get younger and better talent. The fit and health just weren't the best. This off season I feel like has been a major mishandling of our assets. He overpaid for westbrook sending out two of our young rotation players and a pick, he let Caruso walk for a 9mil/year deal, and hes likely going to let DS walk for nothing. To top it off hes signed some of the oldest washed up vets Ive ever seen. Hes completely lost me as a believer. |
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Sina
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Joined: 12 Jul 2015
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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I like AC but it seemed something happened in the locker room and the front office finally decided to change almost all bench players and assistant coaches.
With the big 3s, we need supporting players who could contribute in limited minutes and roles which are the reason we release all players except THT currently.
It’s been proved we don’t need offensive front court players who demand extended playing time like Harrell and Kuzma alongside AD. Or they’ll be dissatisfied and affect the locker room. That’s the reason we gave up KCP and AC. The only exception is THT |
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M2K
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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I'm so glad the Lakers made the right call by letting Caruso go...thank goodness!!!
Who the hell needs a strong perimeter defensive player, who can hit 3's, has helped seal a closeout game to win a Championship, is humble, sacrifices his body going after every loose ball, doesn't demand the ball in his hands (on a team with LeBron and Westbrook), has developed strong chemistry with Lebron, and is asking to make less than $10 million a year?!
Answer: Any sane person left in the Lakers Front Office.
This reminds me of Pelinka's trading out Dwight Howard for Montrezl Harrell. Looks good on paper but totally undercuts the value of chemistry, sacrifice, Championship experience, defense, and fan favorite.
Whatever moves the Lakers have left, letting AC walk keeps their final grade under an A.
Like Dwight last year, the Lakers let Caruso slip right through their fingers.
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A three headed monster... Jeannie, Pelinka, and Ham... another terrible season. |
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Lucky_Shot
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Joined: 10 Jan 2016
Posts: 5140
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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I'm an AC fresh fan but guys he wasn't an all star. He was a plus defender and sure it sucks to lose him but when you go down the 3 star route you can't pay B tier players money or you get stuck in the tax.
I wish you good luck AC and thanks for the fish |
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AD23
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Joined: 15 Jul 2019
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the memories Alex.
Happy you got that bag. |
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BynumForThree
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Joined: 27 Feb 2016
Posts: 1254
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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| M2K wrote: | I'm so glad the Lakers made the right call by letting Caruso go...thank goodness!!!
Who the hell needs a strong perimeter defensive player, who can hit 3's, has helped seal a closeout game to win a Championship, is humble, sacrifices his body going after every loose ball, doesn't demand the ball in his hands (on a team with LeBron and Westbrook), has developed strong chemistry with Lebron, and is asking to make less than $10 million a year?!
Answer: Any sane person left in the Lakers Front Office.
This reminds me of Pelinka's trading out Dwight Howard for Montrezl Harrell. Looks good on paper but totally undercuts the value of chemistry, sacrifice, Championship experience, defense, and fan favorite.
Whatever moves the Lakers have left, letting AC walk keeps their final grade under an A.
Like Dwight last year, the Lakers let Caruso slip right through their fingers. |
Don’t forget he missed his own sister’s wedding to play in the bubble and compete for a title while other players were sneaking in Instagram thots. Caruso was a winner and everyone on the team loved him. He came to the Lakers with Chicago’s offer and the Lakers said no, Caruso wanted to be here.
I’m sure we’ll sign some 32 year old to replace him tho I guess.
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J.C. Smith
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersboy wrote: | | mj32 wrote: | This thread is why everyone makes fun of Laker fans.
I liked Carusso(sometimes) but you act like we just lost Larry Birf for nothing. |
So you’re happy with the free agent haul? Enjoy the season. |
You do realize that free agency has just begun? The Laker still have an exception. There are still quite a few free agents that can be obtained. I'd say wait and see where the team is at in a week before calling it a wrap.
Though I tend to agree with the above sentiments that Caruso is a vastly overrated role player. I'll miss his defense and competitive spirit. But the Lakers are likely going to bring in more guards. They also are likely going to want more minutes for THT this season. It's important to remember that Caruso was a 21 minute per game role player who just got full non-taxpayer MLE money.
If they enter training camp without a suitable replacement, I'll be with you that they should have brought him back. But my thoughts on Caruso is that he was extremely overvalued by Lakers fans because we saw him go from an undrafted player into a guy we could all cheer for. But there is a limited amount of money to go around and tying up more than $9m a year to a guard who isn't a scorer or a playmaker may not be the best use of funds. It's also pre-assuming he didn't want to just go play with the Bulls. |
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Lakesh0wtime
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Joined: 28 Mar 2016
Posts: 5351
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Sina wrote: | I like AC but it seemed something happened in the locker room and the front office finally decided to change almost all bench players and assistant coaches.
With the big 3s, we need supporting players who could contribute in limited minutes and roles which are the reason we release all players except THT currently.
It’s been proved we don’t need offensive front court players who demand extended playing time like Harrell and Kuzma alongside AD. Or they’ll be dissatisfied and affect the locker room. That’s the reason we gave up KCP and AC. The only exception is THT |
Our assistant coaches weren’t gotten rid of lol. They left for better opportunities.
KCP and Ac are guards. How are them being traded/let go related to front court players demanding playing time lol. |
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Ksig
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Joined: 03 Dec 2016
Posts: 2093
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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| J.C. Smith wrote: | | lakersboy wrote: | | mj32 wrote: | This thread is why everyone makes fun of Laker fans.
I liked Carusso(sometimes) but you act like we just lost Larry Birf for nothing. |
So you’re happy with the free agent haul? Enjoy the season. |
You do realize that free agency has just begun? The Laker still have an exception. There are still quite a few free agents that can be obtained. I'd say wait and see where the team is at in a week before calling it a wrap.
Though I tend to agree with the above sentiments that Caruso is a vastly overrated role player. I'll miss his defense and competitive spirit. But the Lakers are likely going to bring in more guards. They also are likely going to want more minutes for THT this season. It's important to remember that Caruso was a 21 minute per game role player who just got full non-taxpayer MLE money.
If they enter training camp without a suitable replacement, I'll be with you that they should have brought him back. But my thoughts on Caruso is that he was extremely overvalued by Lakers fans because we saw him go from an undrafted player into a guy we could all cheer for. But there is a limited amount of money to go around and tying up more than $9m a year to a guard who isn't a scorer or a playmaker may not be the best use of funds. It's also pre-assuming he didn't want to just go play with the Bulls. |
Except he isnt overvalued, hes a top 5 defensive guard in the nba. (theres numerous articles about his defensive impact and advanced statistics). He also shot 40% from 3 this season on equal shot attempts of someone like Kent Bazemore. We're also not tying up money, we literally can only offer vet mins and the mini MLE whether or not if we matched or not. The Lakers cheaped out and cheaped out on the wrong player. And Shams mentioned he did want to come back, he came back to see if the Lakers would match or counter offer... they did not.
Can we find top 5 defensive guards just growing on trees for the vet min? |
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kikanga
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Posts: 29281
Location: La La Land
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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He was a solid rotation piece for us. He had good chemistry with Bron.
I wish we kept him. But I'm not going to jump off a cliff over him leaving.
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"Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better” |
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miggz23
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Posts: 6758
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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Love Alex but he is easily replaceable… Problem is he plays a position where you need to be aggressive in offense. Last year our offense was a big issue and still able to be a top defensive team with AD/Lebron missing most of the season… Ariza and Bazemore can fill those voids that Caruso/KCP left.
Bazemore actually was a little better defensively than KCP in less minutes. Baze also did it in that Warriors team. |
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Ksig
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Joined: 03 Dec 2016
Posts: 2093
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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| miggz23 wrote: | Love Alex but he is easily replaceable… Problem is he plays a position where you need to be aggressive in offense. Last year our offense was a big issue and still able to be a top defensive team with AD/Lebron missing most of the season… Ariza and Bazemore can fill those voids that Caruso/KCP left.
Bazemore actually was a little better defensively than KCP in less minutes. Baze also did it in that Warriors team. |
Theres a reason we were still a top defensive team without Lebron and AD.. hint: it was the other players on the team, of which we all traded away.
Ariza hasn't been a good defender in years. Bazemore is alright, but nowhere near mobile enough to chase guards around screens like KCP. |
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miggz23
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Joined: 29 Nov 2018
Posts: 6758
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Ksig wrote: | | miggz23 wrote: | Love Alex but he is easily replaceable… Problem is he plays a position where you need to be aggressive in offense. Last year our offense was a big issue and still able to be a top defensive team with AD/Lebron missing most of the season… Ariza and Bazemore can fill those voids that Caruso/KCP left.
Bazemore actually was a little better defensively than KCP in less minutes. Baze also did it in that Warriors team. |
Theres a reason we were still a top defensive team without Lebron and AD.. hint: it was the other players on the team, of which we all traded away.
Ariza hasn't been a good defender in years. Bazemore is alright, but nowhere near mobile enough to chase guards around screens like KCP. |
Were also expecting to have a healthy AD and Lebron back. Also got Dwight back. So I don’t think we are losing that much or losing anything at all on that end. |
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Ksig
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Joined: 03 Dec 2016
Posts: 2093
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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| miggz23 wrote: | | Ksig wrote: | | miggz23 wrote: | Love Alex but he is easily replaceable… Problem is he plays a position where you need to be aggressive in offense. Last year our offense was a big issue and still able to be a top defensive team with AD/Lebron missing most of the season… Ariza and Bazemore can fill those voids that Caruso/KCP left.
Bazemore actually was a little better defensively than KCP in less minutes. Baze also did it in that Warriors team. |
Theres a reason we were still a top defensive team without Lebron and AD.. hint: it was the other players on the team, of which we all traded away.
Ariza hasn't been a good defender in years. Bazemore is alright, but nowhere near mobile enough to chase guards around screens like KCP. |
Were also expecting to have a healthy AD and Lebron back. Also got Dwight back. So I don’t think we are losing that much or losing anything at all on that end. |
Thats a little crazy to me. We lost all our plus perimeter defenders KCP/Caruso/Kuz and replaced them with Westbrook/Ariza/Ellington/Bazemore. Thats a huge drop in perimeter defense. |
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ducasse
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Joined: 05 Sep 2002
Posts: 8140
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| Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 12:39 am Post subject: |
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| Letting AC go was definitely a mistake when they had Bird rights. Lakers are really really old now. |
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phantasyman
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Posts: 635
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| Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 12:46 am Post subject: |
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| M2K wrote: | I'm so glad the Lakers made the right call by letting Caruso go...thank goodness!!!
Who the hell needs a strong perimeter defensive player, who can hit 3's, has helped seal a closeout game to win a Championship, is humble, sacrifices his body going after every loose ball, doesn't demand the ball in his hands (on a team with LeBron and Westbrook), has developed strong chemistry with Lebron, and is asking to make less than $10 million a year?!
Answer: Any sane person left in the Lakers Front Office.
This reminds me of Pelinka's trading out Dwight Howard for Montrezl Harrell. Looks good on paper but totally undercuts the value of chemistry, sacrifice, Championship experience, defense, and fan favorite.
Whatever moves the Lakers have left, letting AC walk keeps their final grade under an A.
Like Dwight last year, the Lakers let Caruso slip right through their fingers. |
Let's not get carried away. You make it sound like we just let Julius Randle walk for free. |
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miggz23
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Joined: 29 Nov 2018
Posts: 6758
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| Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 1:47 am Post subject: |
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| Ksig wrote: | | miggz23 wrote: | | Ksig wrote: | | miggz23 wrote: | Love Alex but he is easily replaceable… Problem is he plays a position where you need to be aggressive in offense. Last year our offense was a big issue and still able to be a top defensive team with AD/Lebron missing most of the season… Ariza and Bazemore can fill those voids that Caruso/KCP left.
Bazemore actually was a little better defensively than KCP in less minutes. Baze also did it in that Warriors team. |
Theres a reason we were still a top defensive team without Lebron and AD.. hint: it was the other players on the team, of which we all traded away.
Ariza hasn't been a good defender in years. Bazemore is alright, but nowhere near mobile enough to chase guards around screens like KCP. |
Were also expecting to have a healthy AD and Lebron back. Also got Dwight back. So I don’t think we are losing that much or losing anything at all on that end. |
Thats a little crazy to me. We lost all our plus perimeter defenders KCP/Caruso/Kuz and replaced them with Westbrook/Ariza/Ellington/Bazemore. Thats a huge drop in perimeter defense. |
Caruso 106 drtg
KCP 109 drtg
Kuz 109 drtg
Schroder 109 drtg
Bazemore 108 drtg
Westbrook 110 drtg
Ariza 111 drtg
Like I said you are not losing much on defense and but better offensively… 2 of them making vet minimums. Ellington is my only question here but we got him more for his shooting and offense. But with AD/Dwight/Lebron/Gasol they are all high IQ defensive guys that would help the new guys out. |
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twisted
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Joined: 09 Jun 2012
Posts: 1265
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| Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 3:07 am Post subject: |
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| M2K wrote: | I'm so glad the Lakers made the right call by letting Caruso go...thank goodness!!!
Who the hell needs a strong perimeter defensive player, who can hit 3's, has helped seal a closeout game to win a Championship, is humble, sacrifices his body going after every loose ball, doesn't demand the ball in his hands (on a team with LeBron and Westbrook), has developed strong chemistry with Lebron, and is asking to make less than $10 million a year?!
Answer: Any sane person left in the Lakers Front Office.
This reminds me of Pelinka's trading out Dwight Howard for Montrezl Harrell. Looks good on paper but totally undercuts the value of chemistry, sacrifice, Championship experience, defense, and fan favorite.
Whatever moves the Lakers have left, letting AC walk keeps their final grade under an A.
Like Dwight last year, the Lakers let Caruso slip right through their fingers. |
Thanks for making me feel even worse about this.
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saetarubia
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Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 6208
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| Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 3:34 am Post subject: |
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| Ksig wrote: | | miggz23 wrote: | Love Alex but he is easily replaceable… Problem is he plays a position where you need to be aggressive in offense. Last year our offense was a big issue and still able to be a top defensive team with AD/Lebron missing most of the season… Ariza and Bazemore can fill those voids that Caruso/KCP left.
Bazemore actually was a little better defensively than KCP in less minutes. Baze also did it in that Warriors team. |
Theres a reason we were still a top defensive team without Lebron and AD.. hint: it was the other players on the team, of which we all traded away.
Ariza hasn't been a good defender in years. Bazemore is alright, but nowhere near mobile enough to chase guards around screens like KCP. |
Vogel is the main reason and star players buying into the culture he wanted to set. We had ZO, Ingram, KCP, Caruso and Kuz and defense wasn't anything special under Luke Walton though he was only practicing defense in training most of the time.
Teams don't think Caruso is gonna be much better shooter than his 28% and 29% from 3P in two playoff seasons. Only reason he's only getting 9 M per year despite his stellar defense. If they thought he could shoot 35% in playoffs, his value would be close to 15 M. And if Caruso is shooting his regular playoff percentage, he's unplayable alongside Russ let alone in clutch. I am concerned about the lack of young players, but roster is not complete. Hopefully we will get someone younger with TPMLE and hopefully secure trade exception that can be used to get a young 3&D player before the deadline. Might depend on how THT develops upcoming season.
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PenG_
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Joined: 01 Feb 2020
Posts: 10415
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| Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 3:54 am Post subject: |
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Defensive metrics are a mess, but no stat is perfect.
Defensive RAPTOR (per 100 possessions)
Caruso : 8th
KCP : 111th
Kuz : 120th
Schroder: 124th
Bazemore :20th
Westbrook : 224th
Ariza : 69th in 2019-20 |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 4:26 am Post subject: |
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Happy for Caruso. For sure, teams saw that he had elite defensive ratings and he got paid big time.
I think it has a lot to do with how Frank used him as well. Frank was a great fit for him and tends to use guards like that very well (Look at Bradley 2 years ago).
I had him as a guy we needed to keep at 5-6M per. With lux tax costs, after that, it just did not make sense. Trading him after is easy to say, but what if he gets hurt, or something like that. The way we will use guards is going to change big time. Our backcourt is basically Westbrook-LeBron right now. They each play about 35 min.
Good luck to Caruso. I will miss him. |
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