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hydrohead
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Joined: 14 Jul 2003
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Location: Space City
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 Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 4:24 am Post subject: |
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| RashardA wrote: | I've watched pretty much every game Kuz has played over the course of his career so far, he has definitely improved.
Any fan saying he has not either doesnt watch the games, doesnt know the game or they are just a flat out hater.
Kuz greatly improved on all the weaknesses he was criticized for when all he did was scored.
Now that his scoring has taken a hit for a number of reasons that have been debated to death, he's crucified for that.
Kuz is the only role player that I can remember in all my years of watching the Lakers who is held to star standards.
Other role players on this team are absolutely revered for doing the same or even less than Kuz did this past season.
It's pretty hilarious to watch. |
I agree with the improvement on Kuz’s all around game, however you can make the same argument for Alex Caruso who has improved his defense, shooting and to a smaller extent, his ability to penetrate into the lane. However the difference has been that Causo has found a way to be a fantastic fit along the teams two superstar whereas Kuz has not.
And it pretty clear why when you hear Kuz and Caruso speak. Kuz sees himself as a all star and 25 ppg scorer. He’s looking to shine with a team that won’t afford him that light. Alex talks about winning and the importance of playing alongside Lebron and AD.
It’s time for Kuz find his desired spotlight elsewhere.
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DLaker
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Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Posts: 1539
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| Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 5:18 am Post subject: |
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| hydrohead wrote: | | RashardA wrote: | I've watched pretty much every game Kuz has played over the course of his career so far, he has definitely improved.
Any fan saying he has not either doesnt watch the games, doesnt know the game or they are just a flat out hater.
Kuz greatly improved on all the weaknesses he was criticized for when all he did was scored.
Now that his scoring has taken a hit for a number of reasons that have been debated to death, he's crucified for that.
Kuz is the only role player that I can remember in all my years of watching the Lakers who is held to star standards.
Other role players on this team are absolutely revered for doing the same or even less than Kuz did this past season.
It's pretty hilarious to watch. |
I agree with the improvement on Kuz’s all around game, however you can make the same argument for Alex Caruso who has improved his defense, shooting and to a smaller extent, his ability to penetrate into the lane. However the difference has been that Causo has found a way to be a fantastic fit along the teams two superstar whereas Kuz has not.
And it pretty clear why when you hear Kuz and Caruso speak. Kuz sees himself as a all star and 25 ppg scorer. He’s looking to shine with a team that won’t afford him that light. Alex talks about winning and the importance of playing alongside Lebron and AD.
It’s time for Kuz find his desired spotlight elsewhere. |
I think fans expectation of Kuz is too much. Caruso all we expect from him was to play def, hustle and if he score it’s a plus. Just like AD, Kuz need playmakers to be effective. If you rely on AD and Kuz to make plays it would not be pretty. Early in the season with LBJ healthy and Kuz was ask to only play D, get reb, hustle and shoot only when open, he did a fantastic job. But as our lone playmaker in this team LBJ went down and his responsibilities increased, Kuz became more inconsistent and could not handle the load. A true playmaker can really make a big difference which we lack last season. |
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DLaker
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| Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:54 am Post subject: |
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Double Post
Last edited by DLaker on Fri Jul 23, 2021 9:21 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Halflife
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activeverb
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| Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:04 am Post subject: |
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| DLaker wrote: | | hydrohead wrote: | | RashardA wrote: | I've watched pretty much every game Kuz has played over the course of his career so far, he has definitely improved.
Any fan saying he has not either doesnt watch the games, doesnt know the game or they are just a flat out hater.
Kuz greatly improved on all the weaknesses he was criticized for when all he did was scored.
Now that his scoring has taken a hit for a number of reasons that have been debated to death, he's crucified for that.
Kuz is the only role player that I can remember in all my years of watching the Lakers who is held to star standards.
Other role players on this team are absolutely revered for doing the same or even less than Kuz did this past season.
It's pretty hilarious to watch. |
I agree with the improvement on Kuz’s all around game, however you can make the same argument for Alex Caruso who has improved his defense, shooting and to a smaller extent, his ability to penetrate into the lane. However the difference has been that Causo has found a way to be a fantastic fit along the teams two superstar whereas Kuz has not.
And it pretty clear why when you hear Kuz and Caruso speak. Kuz sees himself as a all star and 25 ppg scorer. He’s looking to shine with a team that won’t afford him that light. Alex talks about winning and the importance of playing alongside Lebron and AD.
It’s time for Kuz find his desired spotlight elsewhere. |
I think fans expectation of Kuz is too much. Caruso all we expect from him was to play def, hustle and if he score it’s a plus. Just like AD, Kuz need playmakers to be effective. If you rely on AD and Kuz to make plays it would not be pretty. Early in the season with LBJ healthy and Kuz was ask to only play D, get reb, hustle and shoot only when open, he did a fantastic job. But as our lone playmaker in this team LBJ went down and his responsibilities increased, Kuz became more inconsistent and could not handle the load. A true playmaker can really make a big difference which we lack last season. |
That's reasonable.
Kuzma had a surprising rookie season where it looked like he might become a star. While his game has improved this then in ways, he never fulfilled his early promise and has leveled out as an NBA journeyman.
Caruso came out of nowhere, so he had the underdog thing. But he's just an NBA journeyman too.
Caruso delights people because he became more than anyone expected he would, Kuzma frustrates them because he is much less than fans hoped for based on his rookie season. |
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LakerMindLA
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Joined: 26 Dec 2008
Posts: 5344
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| Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:28 am Post subject: |
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Caruso is a GREAT defender. One of the best in the league.
Kuzma is below average at every definable skill. |
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mad55557777
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Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 23265
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| Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:05 am Post subject: |
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| RashardA wrote: | I've watched pretty much every game Kuz has played over the course of his career so far, he has definitely improved.
Any fan saying he has not either doesnt watch the games, doesnt know the game or they are just a flat out hater.
Kuz greatly improved on all the weaknesses he was criticized for when all he did was scored.
Now that his scoring has taken a hit for a number of reasons that have been debated to death, he's crucified for that.
Kuz is the only role player that I can remember in all my years of watching the Lakers who is held to star standards.
Other role players on this team are absolutely revered for doing the same or even less than Kuz did this past season.
It's pretty hilarious to watch. |
the biggest problem is that his Offense regressed big time. he is hesitant to shoot sometimes, and always make dumb plays. the Kuz of old is a confident scorer, but now that his defense and rebounding improved, his offense regressed, that is a bad trade off.
can you imagine Steph suddenly becomes a good rebounder, good defense guy, getting tons of assists, but his 3% takes a dip? |
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DLaker
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Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Posts: 1539
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| Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:23 am Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | DLaker wrote: | | hydrohead wrote: | | RashardA wrote: | I've watched pretty much every game Kuz has played over the course of his career so far, he has definitely improved.
Any fan saying he has not either doesnt watch the games, doesnt know the game or they are just a flat out hater.
Kuz greatly improved on all the weaknesses he was criticized for when all he did was scored.
Now that his scoring has taken a hit for a number of reasons that have been debated to death, he's crucified for that.
Kuz is the only role player that I can remember in all my years of watching the Lakers who is held to star standards.
Other role players on this team are absolutely revered for doing the same or even less than Kuz did this past season.
It's pretty hilarious to watch. |
I agree with the improvement on Kuz’s all around game, however you can make the same argument for Alex Caruso who has improved his defense, shooting and to a smaller extent, his ability to penetrate into the lane. However the difference has been that Causo has found a way to be a fantastic fit along the teams two superstar whereas Kuz has not.
And it pretty clear why when you hear Kuz and Caruso speak. Kuz sees himself as a all star and 25 ppg scorer. He’s looking to shine with a team that won’t afford him that light. Alex talks about winning and the importance of playing alongside Lebron and AD.
It’s time for Kuz find his desired spotlight elsewhere. |
I think fans expectation of Kuz is too much. Caruso all we expect from him was to play def, hustle and if he score it’s a plus. Just like AD, Kuz need playmakers to be effective. If you rely on AD and Kuz to make plays it would not be pretty. Early in the season with LBJ healthy and Kuz was ask to only play D, get reb, hustle and shoot only when open, he did a fantastic job. But as our lone playmaker in this team LBJ went down and his responsibilities increased, Kuz became more inconsistent and could not handle the load. A true playmaker can really make a big difference which we lack last season. |
That's reasonable.
Kuzma had a surprising rookie season where it looked like he might become a star. While his game has improved this then in ways, he never fulfilled his early promise and has leveled out as an NBA journeyman.
Caruso came out of nowhere, so he had the underdog thing. But he's just an NBA journeyman too.
Caruso delights people because he became more than anyone expected he would, Kuzma frustrates them because he is much less than fans hoped for based on his rookie season. |
Kuz rookie season, no pecking order on offense, free flowing with no def Luke at the helm. No one on the team demands double team
Kuz 2nd year, LBJ lone superstar eats first, Kuz and BI share the next offensive load .
Kuz 3rd year, AD and LBJ our 2 star needs to eat first since they demand double team, Kuz role changed less shots and be a compliment 3rd scorer.
Lead to a championship
Kuz 4th year, Kuz became a perfect compliment improved D, Improved reb, Improved 3pt%, but we lack playmaker, so when LBJ went down we struggled a lot.
I like to see Kuz back, cause he, Keiffe, Caruso seems to care about team concept and willing ro sacrifice game for the betterment of the team. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:31 am Post subject: |
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| DLaker wrote: |
Kuz rookie season, no pecking order on offense, free flowing with no def Luke at the helm. No one on the team demands double team
Kuz 2nd year, LBJ lone superstar eats first, Kuz and BI share the next offensive load .
Kuz 3rd year, AD and LBJ our 2 star needs to eat first since they demand double team, Kuz role changed less shots and be a compliment 3rd scorer.
Lead to a championship
Kuz 4th year, Kuz became a perfect compliment improved D, Improved reb, Improved 3pt%, but we lack playmaker, so when LBJ went down we struggled a lot.
I like to see Kuz back, cause he, Keiffe, Caruso seems to care about team concept and willing ro sacrifice game for the betterment of the team. |
Kuz's rookie season put him in a perfect situation to outperform his draft position.
Now he's just a solid rotation player.
I am indifferent to whether Kuzma comes back myself. If we can trade him and improve, fine. If we can't, I am fine with being on the roster. I think everyone on the roster except Lebron and AD is replaceable. |
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ThePageDude
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Posts: 2585
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| Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:40 am Post subject: |
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RashardA
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Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 1378
Location: Santa Monica
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| Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:41 am Post subject: |
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| mad55557777 wrote: | | RashardA wrote: | I've watched pretty much every game Kuz has played over the course of his career so far, he has definitely improved.
Any fan saying he has not either doesnt watch the games, doesnt know the game or they are just a flat out hater.
Kuz greatly improved on all the weaknesses he was criticized for when all he did was scored.
Now that his scoring has taken a hit for a number of reasons that have been debated to death, he's crucified for that.
Kuz is the only role player that I can remember in all my years of watching the Lakers who is held to star standards.
Other role players on this team are absolutely revered for doing the same or even less than Kuz did this past season.
It's pretty hilarious to watch. |
the biggest problem is that his Offense regressed big time. he is hesitant to shoot sometimes, and always make dumb plays. the Kuz of old is a confident scorer, but now that his defense and rebounding improved, his offense regressed, that is a bad trade off.
can you imagine Steph suddenly becomes a good rebounder, good defense guy, getting tons of assists, but his 3% takes a dip? |
In his rookie season he got 14 shots per game, as a starter and produced 16.1 ppg in an offense where there was constant player and ball movement.
In his second season he got 16 shots per game, as a starter and produced 18.7ppg in an offense where there was constant player and ball movement.
In his third season he went to the bench and saw his shots per game go from 16 to 11 per game where there was no offense ran for him and he was never established as the "third star" because he started the season hurt and by the time he got back roles had already been established and he did what he could to fit in.
And still ended up 3rd on the team in scoring.
In his 4th season, he remained on the bench, got 11 shots per game but this season he ate after not only Bron and AD but also Trez, Dennis and KCP.
So he said what can I do to have a role on this team since scoring is obviously not what's needed.
He adapted and focused on defense, rebounding and play making.
And still ended up 4th on the team in scoring.
For the life of me I do not understand what this fan base expects from Kuz.
Nothing is ever taken into context when it comes to criticizing him.
If he's given a defined role, and more opportunity and the coaching staff and his teammates actually EMPOWER him to do more offensively I have no doubt in my mind he could.
All Kuz does is do WHATEVER is asked of him from this coaching staff with ZERO COMPLAINTS.
He plays whatever position, whatever role that has been asked of him and he is the most hated player on the team.
So many players on this team last season either had a piss poor attitude, produced LESS, demanded more, was asked to do LESS and they get a free pass.
It absolutely asinine behavior to me.
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Everyting negative - pressure, challenges - is all an opportunity for me to rise.
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BigBoi
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Joined: 13 May 2012
Posts: 3115
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| Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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Wait, are people still making excuses for this blonde trash 🗑
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#mamba4ever! |
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AD23
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Joined: 15 Jul 2019
Posts: 3069
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| Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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| BigBoi wrote: | | Wait, are people still making excuses for this blonde trash 🗑 |
Dude he's only going to be 27 .... another 4-5 yrs and he's gonna be a super star
PATIENCE! |
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Lakerz113
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Posts: 2445
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| Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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| AD23 wrote: | | BigBoi wrote: | | Wait, are people still making excuses for this blonde trash 🗑 |
Dude he's only going to be 27 .... another 4-5 yrs and he's gonna be a super star
PATIENCE! |
It’s not his fault..damn earthquake. |
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M2K
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Posts: 2432
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| Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2021 2:02 am Post subject: |
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| Lakerz113 wrote: | | AD23 wrote: | | BigBoi wrote: | | Wait, are people still making excuses for this blonde trash 🗑 |
Dude he's only going to be 27 .... another 4-5 yrs and he's gonna be a super star
PATIENCE! |
It’s not his fault..damn earthquake. |
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A three headed monster... Jeannie, Pelinka, and Ham... another terrible season. |
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BadGuy
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Posts: 3629
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| Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2021 6:46 am Post subject: |
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| LakerMindLA wrote: | Caruso is a GREAT defender. One of the best in the league.
Kuzma is below average at every definable skill. |
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epic_
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Joined: 23 Jan 2020
Posts: 11310
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| Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2021 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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Happy birthday, champ!
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💜💛 🏆 👀 🍖 #18!!! |
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DLaker
Star Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Posts: 1539
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| Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2021 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Happy 26th Bday Kuz. Keep working, love to see u succeed in PnG. |
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hydrohead
Star Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 4112
Location: Space City
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| Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2021 5:17 am Post subject: |
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| mad55557777 wrote: | | RashardA wrote: | I've watched pretty much every game Kuz has played over the course of his career so far, he has definitely improved.
Any fan saying he has not either doesnt watch the games, doesnt know the game or they are just a flat out hater.
Kuz greatly improved on all the weaknesses he was criticized for when all he did was scored.
Now that his scoring has taken a hit for a number of reasons that have been debated to death, he's crucified for that.
Kuz is the only role player that I can remember in all my years of watching the Lakers who is held to star standards.
Other role players on this team are absolutely revered for doing the same or even less than Kuz did this past season.
It's pretty hilarious to watch. |
the biggest problem is that his Offense regressed big time. he is hesitant to shoot sometimes, and always make dumb plays. the Kuz of old is a confident scorer, but now that his defense and rebounding improved, his offense regressed, that is a bad trade off.
can you imagine Steph suddenly becomes a good rebounder, good defense guy, getting tons of assists, but his 3% takes a dip? |
Reminds me of an argument from the Simpsons
Homer:
But every time I learn something new, it pushes out something old. Remember that time I took a home wine-making course and forgot how to drive?
Marge:
That's because you were drunk!
Homer:
And how!
Homer Kuzma
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2021 5:44 am Post subject: |
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Improvements in Kuz's game - defense, rebounding.
On offense, he has been who he is since the start. In fact, his best shooting was when he was a rookie. Not sure what that is all about. His offense game is neither good enough to warrant 3rd option status with Bron-AD, nor is it someone you can rely on to carry your bench as a 6th man.
He could be a starting level 2-way role player, but that requires him to work on his 3 ball, and accept that he will never be a top line scorer. |
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32
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Joined: 04 Nov 2009
Posts: 73071
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| Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2021 5:58 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | Improvements in Kuz's game - defense, rebounding.
On offense, he has been who he is since the start. In fact, his best shooting was when he was a rookie. Not sure what that is all about. His offense game is neither good enough to warrant 3rd option status with Bron-AD, nor is it someone you can rely on to carry your bench as a 6th man.
He could be a starting level 2-way role player, but that requires him to work on his 3 ball, and accept that he will never be a top line scorer. |
He got his 3 ball back to rookie levels this year 36%.
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Nobody in the NBA can touch the Laker brand, which, like the uniform color, is pure gold. |
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Mark10 45
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Posts: 575
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| Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2021 5:59 am Post subject: |
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| 32 wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | Improvements in Kuz's game - defense, rebounding.
On offense, he has been who he is since the start. In fact, his best shooting was when he was a rookie. Not sure what that is all about. His offense game is neither good enough to warrant 3rd option status with Bron-AD, nor is it someone you can rely on to carry your bench as a 6th man.
He could be a starting level 2-way role player, but that requires him to work on his 3 ball, and accept that he will never be a top line scorer. |
He got his 3 ball back to rookie levels this year 36%. |
in % but not in how much of a threat he was, and how he got the shots up |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2021 6:08 am Post subject: |
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| 32 wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | Improvements in Kuz's game - defense, rebounding.
On offense, he has been who he is since the start. In fact, his best shooting was when he was a rookie. Not sure what that is all about. His offense game is neither good enough to warrant 3rd option status with Bron-AD, nor is it someone you can rely on to carry your bench as a 6th man.
He could be a starting level 2-way role player, but that requires him to work on his 3 ball, and accept that he will never be a top line scorer. |
He got his 3 ball back to rookie levels this year 36%. |
Yeah, but then the playoffs came and he was god awful. I can not say I trust Kuz as a three point shooter. KCP was awful too, but KCP I feel is a legit 3nD guy. Kuz, I do not know what his role is yet. He is getting the D part, but he needs a role on offense around AD-Bron. He is not good enough to carry a 2nd unit as a 6th man ala Lamar Odom as a forward. And he is not good enough to be a 3rd option shot creator as a starter next to Bron-AD. The right role for him is to become a quality 3 point shooter. It seems instead of focusing on this, he is still trying to become a star and work on other aspects of his game. Which is fine, he's got every right to be who he thinks he needs to be (More money as a star as well, look at Randle).
I just think if he really wants to be an asset for us, he needs to commit to the 3 ball. Just cut out all the other stuff, and focus on spot up 3 point shooting and coming off screens and shooting, And then, we should reward him by starting him. Move AD to the 5, unless it is a very physical 5, in which case we use the backup 5 as starter.
The defense and athletic skills of an AD, Bron, Kuz, KCP, THT lineup would be awesome to watch. Now you maybe make a trade using THT, and you have Lowry in there with AD, Bron, Kuz, KCP, wow. How many teams could really stay with an AD, Bron, Kuz, KCP, Lowry lineup? I take that lineup against anyone. But Lowry may be pipe, so lets just say if Kuz worked on his 3 ball and coming off screens shooting, he would be a great 3nD starter for us. For whatever reason he does not commit to this role and we do not commit to him. He is a far better defensive match up in the playoffs, than playing a small guy like Dennis Schroder. We saw that against the Suns. If we have Kuz we can switch AD on to the Suns smalls and Kuz can take the 4-5. Dennis can not do that. Playing big, it serves us a lot. How can we play big, but also play AD at the 5? By starting Kuz, and adding more wing talent into the guard position.
I like the flexibility on D of having Kuz. I like the way we can switch. He has also got championship experience and been in the Vogel D system 2 years. I honestly feel the right move is to get AD to the 5 more, and play bigger at 2-3-1. This way when you play teams like the Suns, Clippers etc. in the playoffs, you can switch easily with AD at the top of your defense. Teams can not find those screen and rolls switch mismatches as easily as the Suns were finding on us last year with Dennis. |
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epic_
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Joined: 23 Jan 2020
Posts: 11310
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| Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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InB4 Kuz is traded and puts up numbers and some fans start whining about giving him up. 🤣
Classic. But it has to be done.
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Snipes
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Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Posts: 6040
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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| RashardA wrote: | I've watched pretty much every game Kuz has played over the course of his career so far, he has definitely improved.
Any fan saying he has not either doesnt watch the games, doesnt know the game or they are just a flat out hater.
Kuz greatly improved on all the weaknesses he was criticized for when all he did was scored.
Now that his scoring has taken a hit for a number of reasons that have been debated to death, he's crucified for that.
Kuz is the only role player that I can remember in all my years of watching the Lakers who is held to star standards.
Other role players on this team are absolutely revered for doing the same or even less than Kuz did this past season.
It's pretty hilarious to watch. |
Please don’t come onto fan forum and share your “ive watched every Kuzma game and if you haven’t seen improvements you don’t watch as much as I do”. Most of us in here watch the games and then come onto the board and discuss said game. Some even discuss the game on here during the game. You’re not at the coffee bean talking to randoms on here.
We have all watched Kuzma digress as a player. I don’t give a (bleep) if you have watched every Kuzma game..it’s clear you’re watching him with a bias the same way I think my nephew is destined to be the next Gary Sheffield even though he’s batting .210 in little league.
He improved his D and rebounding. So? Awareness chalked. IQ chalked. Playmaking chalked. Shot? Chalked.
His best year and moment was in the summer league and it’s been downhill since. I can’t believe Kuz managed to stay relevant among Laker fans for so long. must be the cute face or the tik tok dances. Devin Ebanks pt2 ship his ass out. |
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