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Mark10 45
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:53 pm    Post subject:

(the Lakers are actually a really good fit for Butler) he could hypothetically as a Rookie play crunchtime minutes next to Lebron, and guard PGs. While on other teams, there's no shot he guards SGs, playing next to a traditional PG.
on a smaller note: his shooting gravity coming off Anthony Davis pindowns, and being able to pass..that'd be a fruitful duo. Although I don't trust the Lakers to run the play often...and Duarte could make some good passes on that play too.

But check my last post BVH
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:23 am    Post subject:

https://youtu.be/e2XNt6JkRns?t=898 So Butler gave the exact same critique verbatim for his P&R as I explained thoroughly on the last page...
"If I had to do it again, the set-up... I'd come off the screen a little faster"
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:27 am    Post subject:

Mark10 45 wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Falling in love with Jared Butler.

Easily top 15 prospect.

Look at how sexy he is: https://youtube.com/watch?v=e2XNt6JkRns&feature=youtu.be


Mcbride better. better PG skills, which can also just function as modern PG scoring agressiveness. way longer. defends more than 1 position, especially as he gains upper body strength (see pics above)
I'd say a better ball handler while orchestrating an offense.. even in the scoring PG role. Butler has better 1v1 moves. But functionally sometimes his handle becomes only average when he has to orchestrate. part of a "handle" while orchestrating is escape dribbles, and keeping the dribble alive, comfortability creating in ISO situations with the floor spread. Butler isn't great at this PG stuff. (yes I know the Butler handle highlight reel is awesome, and he has some awesome handles)

I don't really love Butler getting a screen at 30ft and having to be aggressive downhill. And that's a typical PG play. Mcbride is good at that. Butler likes screens that are secondary P&R guy screens, right at the 3pt line.. like a wing player..and he doesn't have to keep his dribble alive too long after and re-set the offense and make a play

On another note.. if the Lakers prefer Duarte, like I do, why do you think they do?


Crazy how McBride has worse tape.

Also for a primary, I wouldn't necessarily lean on Mcbride's scoring aggressiveness. One of the most rim anemic of the slots here. Gets backdoored so heavily even in a perimeter high press defensive system.

Butler actually makes the game look easier and I can't even specify what McBride does better offensively.

Just seems like a lot of Butler criticism out of playtype, rather than actual skillset and effectiveness.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:01 am    Post subject:

with WVU's offense, and how defenses play them - Mcbride had to be really careful not to overpenetrate... often the lane was crazy clogged anyway. And there's good tape of him making super wise reads by not over-penetrating and taking a midrange J

https://youtu.be/593nSmIXC2E?t=1215 this play is pristine. He sees the help defender coming and does a pull-back move, and it's actually effective enough to create separation, and he gets off a late contested shot. Head was up reading the help defender

https://youtu.be/593nSmIXC2E?t=1048 despite the low rim attempts, I still love how he gets downhill. to me this pops. WVU's big is picking his butt in the paint instead of being at the dunker's spot - so Mcbride ends up driving into his defender, still converts. 60%FG at the rim

4 defenders in the paint here, he has to settle instead of over-penetrate https://youtu.be/593nSmIXC2E?t=1036

I think Mcbride is better orchestrating an offense, and it'll be done in an aggressive PG way. And he's better getting downhill(not only all the way to the rim, but downhill creating space period). and better creating a 'get a bucket' shot, often in the midrange.


https://youtu.be/593nSmIXC2E?t=952 extra clip: another early attack of the rim.. he gets downhill better than Butler. And the burst is Westbrook-lite to me; so I trust he can get to the rim in the NBA if he's told to and there's spacing. He's not against attacking the rim, there are reasons why he doesn't so much.

https://youtu.be/593nSmIXC2E?t=1023 extra clip: I like these moves going left attacking


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:19 am    Post subject:

Play 1 is just a clear out.

2nd play. That's why Davion Mitchell gets the draft hype more so than Butler. Butler is clearly the better player.

3rd play just reminds me of how not being patient in PnR doesn't get optimal spacing. He makes his own man ineffective (roll man), and had an option corner shooter. 60%FG at the rim is average. Butler beats him at rim attempts and FG% in the paint.

This just reads like a primary ball handler forcing action downhill, something that wasn't really Butler's role, especially when it was Davion doing these actions, because he got the ball.

I already went through all the 2 hours + on McBride. He just reads like a guard that doesn't have intuitive passing, doesn't make the best reads, is overaggressive of defense even if WV is overaggressive, got backdoored often, and for a guy that has lateral quickness, strength, and length, should not have been beat off the dribble like he was. Like sure, you can see the football background in regards to his physical approach to both ends, but if it's shooting, ball-handling, more advanced reads, it's still Butler, arguably by a tier in each category. Adding pace is the easy part. Getting to Butler's floor level skill set in each category, isn't.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:42 am    Post subject:

"play 1 is just a clear out" lol, the topic was the read , beyond the playtype. I know you like detail, but you don't like that his head was up reading the help defender? and he made a big space creating move while reading that? pretty cool detail and separation play.

play 3 - there could be layers to the discussion of whether he should hit the corner. that player wasn't a shooter 0.1 attempts (part of why the paint is so packed for his drives)
just look at that teammates posture - he was walking inside the 3pt line not shot ready - he didn't want the ball to take a 3. That type of kickout when the corner shooter is open after some penetration is labeled a 'quick pass/shot' , and it's always to a shooter ready to put the shot up quick

The more I watch Butler the more I see some good downhill stuff. so maybe I'll continue to move him up my board beyond the low 20s.

I think part of the reason Mitchell gets hype and why I like Mcbride, is the athletic space creation. If we both see Bouknight's knee instability, we should also see how Butler's compact movements and short steps impact his space creation, and pace
https://youtu.be/5j7PZinrU3w?t=634 this is the type of play that's stuck in my head with Butler. He looks like he's not athletic enough to get downhill off this screen. He's so compact and is going nowhere..nowhere near downhill or past the guy, he's stonewalled without even physicality. That's why I said he plays like he's had a knee injury. Defender is about to go under the screen & yea it's a nice shot. But it's a play that portends to Butler settling too much at the next level. that's a settle/bullied rep. While athletically Mcbride and Mitchell always look like they can get downhill


https://youtu.be/593nSmIXC2E?t=340 this I love from Mcbride - a prototype downhill, spaced P&R move... prototype NBA PG play
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:16 am    Post subject:

Quote:
athletic space creation


This makes sense.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:22 am    Post subject:

Mark10 45 wrote:
"play 1 is just a clear out" lol, the topic was the read , beyond the playtype. I know you like detail, but you don't like that his head was up reading the help defender? and he made a big space creating move while reading that? pretty cool detail and separation play.

play 3 - there could be layers to the discussion of whether he should hit the corner. that player wasn't a shooter 0.1 attempts (part of why the paint is so packed for his drives)
just look at that teammates posture - he was walking inside the 3pt line not shot ready - he didn't want the ball to take a 3. That type of kickout when the corner shooter is open after some penetration is labeled a 'quick pass/shot' , and it's always to a shooter ready to put the shot up quick

The more I watch Butler the more I see some good downhill stuff. so maybe I'll continue to move him up my board beyond the low 20s.

I think part of the reason Mitchell gets hype and why I like Mcbride, is the athletic space creation. If we both see Bouknight's knee instability, we should also see how Butler's compact movements and short steps impact his space creation, and pace
https://youtu.be/5j7PZinrU3w?t=634 this is the type of play that's stuck in my head with Butler. He looks like he's not athletic enough to get downhill off this screen. He's so compact and is going nowhere..nowhere near downhill or past the guy, he's stonewalled without even physicality. That's why I said he plays like he's had a knee injury. Defender is about to go under the screen & yea it's a nice shot. But it's a play that portends to Butler settling too much at the next level. that's a settle/bullied rep. While athletically Mcbride and Mitchell always look like they can get downhill


https://youtu.be/593nSmIXC2E?t=340 this I love from Mcbride - a prototype downhill, spaced P&R move... prototype NBA PG play


first thing i thought of when watching mcbride is slightly less explosive kevin porter jr.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:55 am    Post subject:

whats the story on hyland? he looks (bleep) good, why's he low on mocks
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:23 am    Post subject:

Scottie Barnes is a "super athlete"? Giannis comparisons?

I'm taking crazy pills.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:23 am    Post subject:

44TheLogo wrote:
whats the story on hyland? he looks (bleep) good, why's he low on mocks


only defense.... he can get bullied on a drive from the 3pt line, like just gives up the lane and gets bumped...looks like a teenager giving up space when a grown man is attacking them...
But he also has small redeeming qualities defensively - he's good/instinctive off-ball and is super duper long to contest shots. But his 1v1 D is probably going to be bad; he's for sure getting hunted crazy in the playoffs.

But offensively.. yea he's as good as he looks. At first I questioned his finishing just because he's bambi legged ; but he's solid finishing, he's slithery around the hoop, with craft.

I'd want to use his shooting the most. Like if you watch the way Seth Curry has been used the past 2 years
https://youtu.be/0XPbI1oEHeg?t=17 he has on-ball reps
and he has a green light even in transition.. look at the green light on the next two plays...
Run him off screens off-ball; plus he's more talented than Seth on ball. but he can be a similar shooter. I think this is the path, with this green light, to Bones becoming an offensive force
His ceiling is a mix between the Curry bro's... but focus on what they do off-ball first with him; that will help his gravity on-ball. He's a legit great quick-trigger shooter


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:32 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Mark10 45 wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Falling in love with Jared Butler.

Easily top 15 prospect.

Look at how sexy he is: https://youtube.com/watch?v=e2XNt6JkRns&feature=youtu.be


Mcbride better. better PG skills, which can also just function as modern PG scoring agressiveness. way longer. defends more than 1 position, especially as he gains upper body strength (see pics above)
I'd say a better ball handler while orchestrating an offense.. even in the scoring PG role. Butler has better 1v1 moves. But functionally sometimes his handle becomes only average when he has to orchestrate. part of a "handle" while orchestrating is escape dribbles, and keeping the dribble alive, comfortability creating in ISO situations with the floor spread. Butler isn't great at this PG stuff. (yes I know the Butler handle highlight reel is awesome, and he has some awesome handles)

I don't really love Butler getting a screen at 30ft and having to be aggressive downhill. And that's a typical PG play. Mcbride is good at that. Butler likes screens that are secondary P&R guy screens, right at the 3pt line.. like a wing player..and he doesn't have to keep his dribble alive too long after and re-set the offense and make a play

On another note.. if the Lakers prefer Duarte, like I do, why do you think they do?


Crazy how McBride has worse tape.

Also for a primary, I wouldn't necessarily lean on Mcbride's scoring aggressiveness. One of the most rim anemic of the slots here. Gets backdoored so heavily even in a perimeter high press defensive system.

Butler actually makes the game look easier and I can't even specify what McBride does better offensively.

Just seems like a lot of Butler criticism out of playtype, rather than actual skillset and effectiveness.

+100
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:33 am    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Scottie Barnes is a "super athlete"? Giannis comparisons?

I'm taking crazy pills.


a couple dunks over people and he's the next Giannis
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:37 am    Post subject:

Mark10 45 wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Falling in love with Jared Butler.

Easily top 15 prospect.

Look at how sexy he is: https://youtube.com/watch?v=e2XNt6JkRns&feature=youtu.be


Mcbride better. better PG skills, which can also just function as modern PG scoring agressiveness. way longer. defends more than 1 position, especially as he gains upper body strength (see pics above)
I'd say a better ball handler while orchestrating an offense.. even in the scoring PG role. Butler has better 1v1 moves. But functionally sometimes his handle becomes only average when he has to orchestrate. part of a "handle" while orchestrating is escape dribbles, and keeping the dribble alive, comfortability creating in ISO situations with the floor spread. Butler isn't great at this PG stuff. (yes I know the Butler handle highlight reel is awesome, and he has some awesome handles)

I don't really love Butler getting a screen at 30ft and having to be aggressive downhill. And that's a typical PG play. Mcbride is good at that. Butler likes screens that are secondary P&R guy screens, right at the 3pt line.. like a wing player..and he doesn't have to keep his dribble alive too long after and re-set the offense and make a play

On another note.. if the Lakers prefer Duarte, like I do, why do you think they do?

Idk, the same reason why they drafted Moe Wagner over Mitchell Robinson?
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:54 am    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Mark10 45 wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Falling in love with Jared Butler.

Easily top 15 prospect.

Look at how sexy he is: https://youtube.com/watch?v=e2XNt6JkRns&feature=youtu.be


Mcbride better. better PG skills, which can also just function as modern PG scoring agressiveness. way longer. defends more than 1 position, especially as he gains upper body strength (see pics above)
I'd say a better ball handler while orchestrating an offense.. even in the scoring PG role. Butler has better 1v1 moves. But functionally sometimes his handle becomes only average when he has to orchestrate. part of a "handle" while orchestrating is escape dribbles, and keeping the dribble alive, comfortability creating in ISO situations with the floor spread. Butler isn't great at this PG stuff. (yes I know the Butler handle highlight reel is awesome, and he has some awesome handles)

I don't really love Butler getting a screen at 30ft and having to be aggressive downhill. And that's a typical PG play. Mcbride is good at that. Butler likes screens that are secondary P&R guy screens, right at the 3pt line.. like a wing player..and he doesn't have to keep his dribble alive too long after and re-set the offense and make a play

On another note.. if the Lakers prefer Duarte, like I do, why do you think they do?

Idk, the same reason why they drafted Moe Wagner over Mitchell Robinson?




the Lakers probably have used similar reasoning even on their hits.. it's not a coincidence that they don't use non lotto first rounders on young players. Hart, Kuz, Wagner, Nance. And I'm not arguing they now want the oldest guy possible just because he's old, lol

Wagner had no proven NBA skill. The scouting staff had it between Spellman and Wagner but wanted Spellman, Magic took Wagner..Duarte is a lot different than Wagner. Mitchell Robinson hadn't played organized ball in a year; I don't really blame them for passing on him - what's more interesting is their process for wanting Spellman and Wagner.. it's fit, they wanted a stretch big - and NBA readiness, it's always factored into their process.

Now they're rumored to want maybe the best shooter in the draft in Duarte.. and I don't blame them one bit. especially since he can do more than that offensively and is very solid defensively


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:55 am    Post subject:

44TheLogo wrote:
whats the story on hyland? he looks (bleep) good, why's he low on mocks


Yeah I like him a ton. Can't defend physically, gotta hide him. Not sure if he can do POA either.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:58 am    Post subject:

Quote:
Mcbride better. better PG skills,


Not sure about that. None of it really looks "easy" and I don't think any of it is specialized. He just strikes me as a jack of all trades guard, no specialty.

Either way, he's projected late 1st, but talented enough to look at for #22 at least.

Meanwhile, I've at least seen Butler as a lead initiator as a freshman, and seamlessly slide next to a primary initiator, which only highlighted his shooting capabilities, more than the ball handling.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:23 am    Post subject:

Wasserman in response to Duarte getting a solo workout with the Knicks.
Duarte’s stock is hot. Interest has snowballed/spread, he’s become a trade-up target for teams. Unlikely here’s available at 19.

There are also separate reports about the Knicks trying to trade up into the end of the lottery and mocks of Duarte going to the Warriors in the lottery.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:28 am    Post subject:

^Then another player slips.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:42 am    Post subject:

https://lakersdraft.substack.com/p/players-that-stick-out-to-me

A bunch of players that we've arguably talked already about, and some we haven't

https://lakersdraft.substack.com/p/players-that-stick-out-to-me
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 2:07 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
44TheLogo wrote:
whats the story on hyland? he looks (bleep) good, why's he low on mocks


Yeah I like him a ton. Can't defend physically, gotta hide him. Not sure if he can do POA either.


Turnovers probably scaring some teams off too. More turnovers than assists last year.

And I like him.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 3:26 pm    Post subject:

Warriors bring Duarte and Murphy in for second workouts. That’s pretty interesting.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 4:06 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/p/players-that-stick-out-to-me

A bunch of players that we've arguably talked already about, and some we haven't

https://lakersdraft.substack.com/p/players-that-stick-out-to-me


Great read.

Good to see someone else believes Jemerrio Jones belongs in the league

Did not feel Ziaire Williams and especially Jalen Johnson who I have in my top 10 would fall to the Lakers pick. Ziaire is a bit of a conundrum for me. High ceiling longer development time or select a more ready to play Duarte type player?

I just can't wrap my thoughts around Sharife. Still undecided.

Roka's was a fav of mine last draft year and has been in my top 5 for the Lakers pick this year. I always thought he was a 1st round talent.

I was of thought Derrick Alston was flying under the radar and would make a nice udfa 2-way player.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 5:31 pm    Post subject:

LakersMD wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
44TheLogo wrote:
whats the story on hyland? he looks (bleep) good, why's he low on mocks


Yeah I like him a ton. Can't defend physically, gotta hide him. Not sure if he can do POA either.


Turnovers probably scaring some teams off too. More turnovers than assists last year.

And I like him.


I wouldn't worry about that specific aspect too much.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 5:47 pm    Post subject:

Considering his age, what's Primo's upside in terms of potential?
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