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lakerfanaticPT
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PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2021 5:55 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
^Appreciate the clarity. I should have amplified the idea that I think Hyland/McBride may have the higher FTr next level because their best offensive aspect is the pull up jumper as a legitimate threat, especially with Hyland comfortably shooting from Curry distances off the dribble despite the slight frame (EXCELLENT energy transfer stuff from a shooting standpoint) and McBride

Cooper has a great way of drawing contact on the floor prior to the up. I had forgotten that was another big reason why I like him as well.

But yes, this conflicts with the idea of not drafting backup PGs (since they tend to be a dime a dozen) and extracting more value out of another position.

Springer is an obvious pick for me. Cooper, otoh, I'd want to make sure the development plan is in place, even if he's excessively ball dominant (33%+USG) and plays for Auburn, which absolutely has NBA level shot selection and usually has 1-2 big vertical threats and 1-2 3/D types to resemble NBA spacing.

Miles McBride seems like the "safest pick" here considering he's basically at an NBA level body, even if I think he's the best defender of the 3, but Sharife has elite abilities as a playmaker even if the ancillary stuff hasn't complemented him well yet, and Hyland is basically Jamal Crawford, just 25lbs lighter, all over again. That PUJ is no joke.


I agree with that order Mike. From the scouting videos, McBride seems like the best all around PG out of Hyland, Cooper, and even Mann (no defense).

But do we need a PG if Dennis remains??

We REALLY need an athletic 3 and D SF. Have for the past 2 seasons to help guard the PG's and Kawaii's of the league.

Trey Murphy out of Stanford looks nice but maybe we can trade back for him. Zaire Williams if he falls maybe??

The euro guys are interesting......especially Vrenz. But do we want to wait on his development??
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PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2021 3:30 pm    Post subject:

^I don't draft for need. GSW made this mistake last year and missed out on LaMelo. They're worse for it.

They legitimately drafted a guy 2 tiers worse in talent, to fit a positional need, when ALL teams need talent, anywhere.

Also, I'm guessing you meant Trey Murphy III out of UVA, but I have him 2nd round. Zaire, I don't expect to drop to LAL's pick.

Vrenz is more developed than other players in terms of individual skill.

Trey needs more development than Vrenz. Can't handle, can't 1 foot jump, can't initiate the offense. Vrenz can.

Quote:
Hyland, Cooper, and even Mann (no defense)


Hyland is the best defender. Mann is the best initiator. I'm just looking for BPA, not addressing team needs.
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PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2021 4:19 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
^I don't draft for need. GSW made this mistake last year and missed out on LaMelo. They're worse for it.

They legitimately drafted a guy 2 tiers worse in talent, to fit a positional need, when ALL teams need talent, anywhere.

Also, I'm guessing you meant Trey Murphy III out of UVA, but I have him 2nd round. Zaire, I don't expect to drop to LAL's pick.

Vrenz is more developed than other players in terms of individual skill.

Trey needs more development than Vrenz. Can't handle, can't 1 foot jump, can't initiate the offense. Vrenz can.

Quote:
Hyland, Cooper, and even Mann (no defense)


Hyland is the best defender. Mann is the best initiator. I'm just looking for BPA, not addressing team needs.


Agree you should not draft for need. If BPA is a guard, they should take him and then trade KCP or Kuzma for a NEED.

Hyland seems to thin to be very good defensively to me....at least until he gains some weight/strength. He also is very tunnel visioned on scoring. Seems like a 2 guard mentality which is fine if you deem him the BPA. I would rather have McBride, as he seems to be a 2 way talent to me.
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PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2021 11:02 pm    Post subject:

^Can't really trade Klutch players on this team.

I get the concern about Hyland's physicality, but man the handle and range, actual shot form is effortless with that dude.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2021 12:58 pm    Post subject:

If you split the difference between Mann and Hyland would you get

Rokas Jokubaitis?

Run and Jump athlete: Hyland-Rokas-Mann
Body control: Mann=Rokas=Hyland
Passing: Mann=Rokas-Hyland
3pt: Mann=Rokas=Hyland
Defense: Hyland-Rokas-Mann based on above comments

Separation from defender: Mann=Rokas=Hyland
Mann = tight handles with body control and side step or step back
Hyland = quickness with shifty moves (i.e Jordan Clarkson)
Rokas = good quickness with stop and go and side step or step back
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2021 6:01 pm    Post subject:

Rokas is just Dragic to me, and not just because he's left handed.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 9:09 am    Post subject:

Definitely want Terry Taylor and EJ Onu on South Bay.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 2:02 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Rokas is just Dragic to me, and not just because he's left handed.


I'll take Just Dragic any day and every day.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 5:13 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
^Yep, I'm right along with Henry/Duarte then Shannon Jr. Everything you said was accurate.

Henry is likely the better or best defender of the 3 on and off the ball. Just Duarte has the JuCo to Div I upbringing and improved a lot with ridiculous shooting % across the board. Even on twitter, it's Henry 1st, then Duarte/Shannon Jr. Just Shannon Jr. is the guy with the FTr because of that bursty straight line drive. Henry has the 58% to 62% finishing at the rim that I'm concerned about.

Duarte for me is the "standard late 1st round pick" for LAL, and it's been about guys more talented or less talented, but he's the bar. A ton of self creation, which I think goes away next level tbh. He's a rotation player at worst, and I don't see the outlier shooting holding at next level to make him a starter or better. He ain't Klay.

Vrenz is the guy I want.

Good to see you around.




I like Vrenz too Mike@lakersground!
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 6:11 pm    Post subject:

PlantedTanks wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Rokas is just Dragic to me, and not just because he's left handed.


I'll take Just Dragic any day and every day.


Rokas is more of a headfake, speed shift, straight line driver, but they look incredibly alike with their craft in attacking.

Dragic needed PG help in PHX before he got to where he is. Rokas doesn't have the strongest vert either.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 6:12 pm    Post subject:

LakersForever123 wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
^Yep, I'm right along with Henry/Duarte then Shannon Jr. Everything you said was accurate.

Henry is likely the better or best defender of the 3 on and off the ball. Just Duarte has the JuCo to Div I upbringing and improved a lot with ridiculous shooting % across the board. Even on twitter, it's Henry 1st, then Duarte/Shannon Jr. Just Shannon Jr. is the guy with the FTr because of that bursty straight line drive. Henry has the 58% to 62% finishing at the rim that I'm concerned about.

Duarte for me is the "standard late 1st round pick" for LAL, and it's been about guys more talented or less talented, but he's the bar. A ton of self creation, which I think goes away next level tbh. He's a rotation player at worst, and I don't see the outlier shooting holding at next level to make him a starter or better. He ain't Klay.

Vrenz is the guy I want.

Good to see you around.




I like Vrenz too Mike@lakersground!


Yeah, there's a ton of stuff to unravel skill wise, but I like his athleticism, a clue for PnR passing, ball handling at a wing spot, and shot variation, even if he isn't the most accurate shooter. I am concerned about the mechanics and wonder if he'll ever change it.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 4:51 pm    Post subject:

Alperen Sengun - Domantas Sabonis; shows all the signs with dexterity with either hand. IQ follows with his poise and patience in the painted area. Just a matter of time before the ball handling further develops for him to be a transition pushing 4 and arguably a playmaking one, and shooting to line up after that. Just a bit undersized at 4 but makes sense skill-wise.

Roko Prkacin - As I've said before, the guy we wish Slava really was. More patience with passing ability, peculiar flick of the wrist on his shot, but a better overall shooter, slasher, and finisher. Wing skills in a 4 body is always a win.

Sharife Cooper - Wouldn't say he'd make a particularly great Laker because he can't shift defenses with his handle and opts for body position/strength at his PG size to create gaps. Also had an ideal situation to get tons of floor spacing with perimeter shooting bigs. But still, able to get to the rim at a high frequency with 47%+ of his shots at the rim, even if he converts at just a 52% rate. Jumper needs working, but the IQ is absolutely there, especially for timing of passes mid-drive for lob targets. A specialty.

Scottie Barnes - Dropped him a ton for his lack of shooting and verticality, but absolutely a strong wing defender with ball handling and passing skills. Just unsure the shooting will ever come.

Ziaire Williams - The smaller Brandon Ingram without the outlier length, reliant on his pull up jumper ability and great stocks% rate. There's more in him to be a potent offensive threat, but the results aren't there just yet.

Rokas Jokubaitis - High motor, Dragic, pick and roll feel. Heavy use of hesitation dribbles, headfakes, some shift in speed, but not direction. Mostly straight line after that. Underrated feel.

Vrenz Bleijenbergh - Wing in PF length with ball handling and shooting variation. Concerned he shoots like LaMelo so it's not so easy for his shooting to project upward with accuracy. Absolutely fluid, makes basic PnR reads and has even come off screens for shooting off motion. Defense is a bit of an issue, especially against NBA competition, but it's still rare to get that kind of offensive skill set with his athleticism/size combination.

Miles McBride - +3 wingspan. Heats up ball handlers 1v1 in a unique way. Caruso-like. Seems to be a staple out of WV. High motor PG with flashes of shot creating ability due to the pull up jumper. Not the best finisher at the rim at just 56%, but basically average elsewhere, 38%middy, 30% arc. 46% in C+S. Has a legitimate jump shot, and while power may get sapped near the top, compensates for it on pull back, which may hurt long range accuracy. Able to change direction 2x on PnR drives, a staple of drive effectiveness.

Bones Hyland - Tons of inner Chi. Arguably the best Iso ball handler of the players listed to get his own shot. Steph-like range, natural shot progression. Just lightweight, unsure of his ability to handle NBA contact even with that inner Chi. Won't be able to defend next level.

Jared Butler - Confusing prospect. Has advanced dribble, but doesn't create space. 3 level shooter with youth and stock%, but not that outlier passing ability or finishing ability to make him a lottery level PG. Jeff Teague vibes.

Davion Mitchell - Looks every bit the part, played natural PG next to Butler, but for whatever reason, doesn't get docked by age like Duarte does, even if Duarte is arguably the better shooter, wing defender, and has more size.


Chris Duarte
- Outlier shooter year, good NBA athlete with some pop after mid-run. Enough passing ability and defensive ability. If I wasn't unsure about shot translation to NBA level due to age, he would be lottery. If he were 20 or 21 with his skill level, people would arguably project Devin Booker.

Kessler Edwards - Kerry Kittles vibes but with actual strength. Doesn't pop verticallty unfortunately, but does seek out some contact in the paint and is comfortable being physical. Flat perimeter shooter, linked to his shot form. Ball goes outward more than generating lift upward from his legs. Straight line driver.

Aaron Henry - Like watching a Stacey Augmon incarnate. High level dexterity with either hand gives promise to improving ball handling, but even better, it applies directly to finishing at the rim for slightly easier finishes. Shoots lefty, but like a right handed player, without the extreme shoulder lean in.

Tre Mann - mixed feelings as a PG/SG because he's more of a smooth athlete than a burst one. Loves the mid drive, pull back to create separation. Can get crowded by traps and athletic defenders with is a bit of a flag. Negative wingspan as well.

Day'Ron Sharpe

Usman Garuba - Also another guy I wouldn't necessarily consider a Laker, but with unique defensive strengths in read and reaction time, awareness, strength, and lightfootedness, just peculiar way of being able to attack while playing defense. Flat shot to the 3pt line, limited skill, more of a put back guy, not a vertical threat.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 8:49 am    Post subject:

In Process:

Cade Cunningham - Jumbo initiator, best feel, improved shooter, underrated defender despite being energy efficient.
Evan Mobley - Underrated big that plays more like a wing, yet has the defensive ability to to quarterback an entire team. High post base.
Jalen Suggs - Did you know he was a quarterback? High motor, high floor, limited ball handling in PnR, but makes reads and a consistent pull up jumper behind the arc with the step back, not afraid of contact.
Jalen Green - Upside play here, just unique ability to finish with body control and dexterity near the hoop. Just enough of a pull up jumper threat. Really needs the strength and ball handling ability.
Moses Moody - Worst case 3 and D, best case, Khris Middleton. Deflection rate, some nose for the ball, ideal shooting form, even with the slight right side lean.

Josh Giddey - Jumbo initiator, break even or negative wingspan, just an outlier ball handler as a playmaker, great processor, takes all advantage reads. More of a perimeter set shooter, but comfortable developing a floater.
Scottie Barnes - Surprised I have him here, but PG for FSU, has the ball handling, wing defensive ability, and solid enough passing ability. Just can't shoot, lacks touch, not explosive near the rim. May be best as a 4. Not a gravity threat. Like, a poor man's Ben Simmons.
Alperen Sengun - The hope is he becomes Domantas Sabonis. Shows the processing, touch, flashes the ball handling and shooting. Sabonis did the same out of Gonzaga at age 19/20. Needs the outlier guard skill development + strength to really pan out here. Not afraid of contact.
Jalen Johnson - Concerns about him scoring in the halfcourt, limited sample size, love the transition ball handling ability, decision making, passing ability from inside out. Hitch in the jumpshot, advanced numbers reflect outlier abilities as a rebounder/steal%/blk% guy at 4/3.
Jaden Springer - Young, a wing in a guard body. 2-way player that relies on physicality more than craft, which may hamper him. Outlier strength for his age, great defensive abilities at POA down to playing physical in the paint. Jumpshot is a big question mark. Just not a natural stroke, shoulder heavy, doesn't generate lift fluidly.

Jonathan Kuminga - Athletic, physical. The tools are there, need to see the touch. Makes NBA caliber moves without the results. Also another 4/3 big wing type. Perhaps it's a matter of training/development by team, but not all teams have great training. Worth the risk here.
Keon Johnson - NBA caliber athlete, defensive player, but the athleticism doesn't turn into efficient results. Really only comfortable from 15' and sometimes the game looks a bit fast, still catching up to his athletic abilities and what he can do on the floor. Worst case, you've got a wing defender and a lot of athletic tools to work with. Not the most basketball literate.
Kai Jones - Like Kuminga, has the NBA moves as well, more height, all of the wing-like athleticism out of a 6'10" frame. Not as aggressive scorer as you'd like. Ideally, he'd play 3, motor concerns, ball handling concerns in playmaking situations here.
James Bouknight - NBA level athlete, limited ball handler, more likely a 3 and D guy that is a single position defender. Can be an explosive player towards the rim.
Franz Wagner - 3 and D, Processor, good decision maker, good athlete.

Roko Prkacin - As I've said before, the guy we wish Slava really was. More patience with passing ability, peculiar flick of the wrist on his shot, but a better overall shooter, slasher, and finisher. Wing skills in a 4 body is always a win.
Ziaire Williams - Defender, pull up jump shooter trying to get used to the pointing finger release point. Slightly smaller BI, much better ability to read defensively; deflections, passing angles, cut off angles, etc.
Rokas Jokubaitis - Screams Dragic. Hesitation dribble, headfakes, high motor on drives. Can't defend, but not really expected to. 3 level shooter, mostly a straight line driver out of PnR, but should be able to hit the brakes and develop a 2nd change of direction when snaking out of PnR.
Vrenz Bleijenburgh - Wing in PF length with ball handling and shooting variation. Concerned he shoots like LaMelo so it's not so easy for his shooting to project upward with accuracy. Absolutely fluid, makes basic PnR reads and has even come off screens for shooting off motion. Defense is a bit of an issue, especially against NBA competition, but it's still rare to get that kind of offensive skill set with his athleticism/size combination.
JT Thor - 3 and D PF out of Auburn that shows incredible touch. Long way to go in terms of strength, skill set on both ends. Has some ball-handling ability, not afraid to be aggressive. Tons to work with here, but this is a home run swing. Defends without fouling (big indicator) and can make himself effective there. Perhaps considered a bit soft, but that may be in line with the strength he needs to build, just to be an average rebounder, and powerful finisher.

Miles McBride - Combo guard, pull up jumper, can really heat up ball handlers and force turnovers. Gets caught off ball watching. Does the 2x direction out of PnR, certainly capable. Low TO rate.
Chris Duarte - 2 way wing with vertical pop. Outlier shooting year. Outlier age. Concerned that upside is limited due to age. More of a 3 and D player next level than a shot creator. Needs more craft as a ball handler with strength to create the space as a dynamic scorer.
Kessler Edwards - Another 2 way wing, prior position as a big. Energy generation issues from his base. Upper body strength, but not in the base. Flat shot from the energy generation. Straight line driver. Capable off ball. Lacks vertical pop.
Josh Christopher - Every bit the NBA athlete and shot creator, just opts for a lot of lower percentage shots with higher degree of difficulty. Has the stock percentage, but not the FTr considering his strength and ball handling ability.
Jared Butler - Like Josh Christopher, has shot creating ability/advanced ball handling, but not the craft to create easier shots. Played 2 next to Davion Mitchell so may have been hidden a bit on offense. Still has youth on his side along with the advanced defensive numbers.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 2:29 pm    Post subject:

Mike@lg,

Any thoughts on EJ Onu? 6’11 ctr, 7’6 ws, who can shoot 3 pointers and led the nation in blocked shots?
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 3:22 pm    Post subject:

LakersForever123 wrote:
Mike@lg,

Any thoughts on EJ Onu? 6’11 ctr, 7’6 ws, who can shoot 3 pointers and led the nation in blocked shots?


2nd round pick to undrafted, but I'd definitely give him a shot at South Bay. The talent is tantalizing, but I'm not sure if he can read the floor on both ends.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 4:35 pm    Post subject:

thanks Mike!
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 5:28 pm    Post subject:

LakersForever123 wrote:
thanks Mike!



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:18 pm    Post subject:

Top tier

1a Cunningham
1b Mobley


3. Green- I buy him having supreme functional athleticism for a wing scorer. I buy him having an above average handle compared to Booker and Beal early in their careers. If his jumper was as pure as Booker's then he'd be in the top top tier.

4. Suggs - I think he'll be a slightly better Lowry at the least. He does have to grow into being used on-ball majority of the time.. but with his jumper potential and the amount of ball-screens in the NBA, I think he gets there.. And is a floor general who can play at any pace; get himself involved or play a prototype set up role, whichever his team needs. I think he'll grow into this. Heart of a team and defender, like Lowry... and maybe a similar scorer - they're recklessness on both ends is similar to me.

-----------------------
tier of upside, or guaranteed high effectiveness. These players warts/drawbacks don’t scare me so much.

5. JT Thor: Tremendously skilled and could be great defensively. Flashes of blocking shots when the shooter is 15ft away originally - extremely long. 6'10 kind of like Lamar Odom's brother - less PG skills but more shooting, shoots 3s off the dribble. Only 15lbs too skinny, not too bad. Some really acrobatic monster dunks, legs flaring - really coordinated - not quite as wing mobile as Siakam but not far away. Super high upside. These type of skilled long athletes hit pretty often. Even Christian Wood came along ( he was awesomely mobile when he was skinnier out of UNLV).
He might not have the same "pop" off the floor as Kuminga who just skyrockets - but JT gets up, and he's longer and uses that length defensively.. and he's a million times more skilled. This is the upside athlete of the class. You're not supposed to be this mobile/skilled at 6'10 with length. There’s only a handful of players in this first round who’s red flags don’t scare me, he’s one of them..

6. Mitchell: Mike Schmitz said it best "you could argue you have the best film resume in the class". I love his quick driving Dame Lillard moves. And I buy his shooting off the bounce. great defender. He'll be a good combo guard in this league. He'll have finishing and facilitating struggles - but I think he can improve his in-between game , look for those short jumpers more like cp3 and so many NBA guards do... He creates the separation for it, yet doesn't look for it..so he can still grow. He ranked 3rd in NCAA in PPP on jumpers off the dribble....
My mentality with drafting older players early is - they have to enter their prime by their 4th season... Randle is hitting his prime in his 7th/8th year.. that's cool. Maybe he's only DJ Augustine with good defense. But I can't find any other sure-things to put above him........ I'm confident that he'll be the 3rd best player on a contender.. and I can't make that statement about any player other than him after the top 4.... although they all have upside.

7. Kai Jones - most unique prospect I've seen this year? He's like a track athlete Center, who can dribble a little bit, and has legit 3pt potential. I've never seen a bigman with this athletic profile. WCS came close, kinda, coming out of college. He can guard wings... Now, every good trait I've listed is going to need development... so that's the caveat with him, none of it is guaranteed. But he could be one of the most unique players in the NBA - he doesn't even need to fulfill his whole potential to do that ---- if he just can be a solid 3pt shooter, he'll be able to attack a closeout like nobody his size(and he's a solid passer) - and on the other end, if he gets coached up on a defensive stance, he should be able to guard many wings ---- and I don't think this is wild, because dozens of times a year we see coaches put their Centers on Giannis. So if I was a coach, I'd put Kai on other wings sometimes........ We saw AD guard wings last year..
Kai needs to get comfortable on the court - he plays sped up offensively... might come from just trying to use his speed all the time - even attacking closeouts, so he gets a lot of travels... he just looks wild.
He's by far the fastest bigman I've ever seen..I'd compare him to Wilt speed wise but with less long strides.
I'm not sure if he'll reach any of this potential I've listed; If I was I'd rank him higher. Could be a stretch+vertical big who's a defensive chess piece.


8. Miles Mcbride - If his 3pt shot is legit, and he if he can make some 17footers in the P&R - this kid could then have a chance to be a 3rd best player on a contender. If he can just keep his shooting from college, he’s set. Jrue Holiday upside?
There may be some iffy stuff with his jumper mechanics - but it’s not a leap of faith to believe he’ll be a good 3 level scorer..
Has small-Thybulle ability to be behind or side of player and get a block - stays locked well and uses arm length great. Also Thybulle ability in passing lanes? idk.
He’s one of my favorite upside plays in this draft. One of the best pure athletes in this draft, and I like how he uses it, more importantly. Stickiness on defense, and the ball doesn’t slow him down on offense.
He plays bigger than 6’2.5... might as well be 6’4 IMO.

9. Springer: Projects to be a do-everything type of SG. Just solid. Not flashy at all, but a good 2way prospect.



------------------
players with not GREAT realistic upside; but also massive red flags. I really like these players, only a couple could be fringe all stars if they hit their upside - huge hurdles to get there though:

10. Barnes: If he goes to the right situation he'll earn this rank. If not, his troubling half-court deficiencies will keep him from being a true plus offensive player. Defensively he will be good. Hopefully a team lets him facilitate in the open court -------- PFs who like to dribble are best in transition, and Barnes is no different - halfcourt gets crowded and he struggles. Jumper form is fine and shot should come along. I could easily put quite a few players below, above him.



11.Cooper: He really is prime Isaiah Thomas quick.. If he gets a halfway decent jumper.. He's going to be a very nice offensive PG. I can see him getting a midrange J and still being great in the P&R / great distributor only with that threat. Another similarity to I.T. is that he plays strong. I.T. had amazing compact strength, and a bigger frame than Cooper - I.T. used to bump guys off at the rim really well. Cooper uses his body so well while dribbling - he has every trick to shed defenders. He’s way polished beyond his years off the dribble. Idk if the jumper will develop though; and there are no successful PGs today without it


12. Garuba - Solid Draymond archetype player.. will be less of a playmaker and surely less of a defender... still might have potential in the ballpark? on top of that his shooting stroke looks like it has potential, shot is flat right now so I'm interested to see what he does with his form next....but right now it looks smooth enough to be confident he'll shoot one day. No red flags, and I like that.



13. Vrenz B. - Fun player to take a shot on. He's like 6'8 but has guard skills and feel and bend. Jumper needs some tweaks but naturally it's there, could even be a sharpshooter. Makes nice reads playmaking; can be a sparkplug making a high octane play.. Effort defender. Nice bend and mobility for a 6'8 secondary initiator.. his comp can’t be a player taller than him - because they won’t move like him. He’s a 6’8 guard essentially.. A lot of good traits to be a reliable secondary initiator eventually - but that’s a ceiling trait...if he’s ever a secondary initiator you know his careers going well. Seems like a Spurs pick.. a Euro with upside that only they’ll dare to let him try for.. Turning 21yo. I have Vrenz over Moody, just because I'm choosing offense+decent energetic defense over, the guaranteed 3+D valuable piece.
Wing Euro’s like him usually don’t come over and get a ball handling role; I hope he’s allowed...needs a team willing to hit any upside. I could put Bouknight over him, but I’m just enamored with passing as an evaluator.

14. Wagner - I see him as an upside play and a bit of a risk(although smaller risk than Keon/Jalen)
Because without a jumper I think his offense is going to be clunky. 6'9 combo F size Ball handlers always make mistakes handling/facilitating.. Mistakes come when he's over-played for the pass, and without a jumper he will be.
If he gets a jumper, I roughly comp him to Jerami Grant - but with more proclivity for passing. Similar size and defending styles, energy, straight line ball handlers - Wagner will just pass more at the end of that straight line, while Grant will look to score more. So his upside is like a cousin of Jerami Grant - and with only same color comps, I like saying that line. lol. Or his uspide may be a talented defending, more pass-happy Kuzma.
People love him handling/making plays but I'm not sure it's going to look better than Kuzma at the next level - because Wagner is slower and has some of the same tendencies of playing out of control, or outside of himself... Sometimes he'll push the ball and think he's the best athlete on the court, and the defender will just step in front of him and take a charge..... you're "OC" Wagner, as Stu Lantz would say. And defenders play off of him when he playmakes, playing him for the pass --- and he doesn't look to be aggressive when probing ---- that said how does him handling on the NBA level play out? Because he will make playmaking mistakes as all 6'9+ Forwards do --- and when teams sag off of his playmaking and lack of finishing threat - is the juice worth the squeeze with him handling, with mistakes in the equation?
Poor shooter with iffy mechanics - could improve though. maybe my favorite big wing defender in the class. I think there will be growing pains with his over-exuberance... functionally offensively I'm not sure about him if his jumper doesn't come around. But it's way more likely to come around than Keon, and still with a nice upside - so I put him above. It's a toss-up to who turns out better between he and Barnes(#10)

15. Moses Moody- The age, shooting, defense - is a great combo that's going to improve. He's a smooth not explosive athlete that lacks any significant effectiveness off the dribble - not really a ballhanlder at all. might give you one move a game? Mediocre finisher... I'm almost positive he's only going to be a prototype shooter offensively, and not more.. I do think he'll attack close-outs though. Lacks playmaking/feel. has much positional+shooting value. He's a Kawhi type of smooth athlete without the big hands that enable dunks.
His smooth athleticism reminds me of Ariza.. Just looking at his movement/body I see Ariza with a tad less pop.. A sharpshooting Ariza.. Bit better/modernized ball-handler too. Should be a safe pick, I'd bet on him ending up being a top 10 player from this class.... my rankings just factor in upside a lot.



16. Bouknight - His 3pt shot probably comes along, and he can be a decent defender. This might have him end up being the best of the microwave scorers at the fringe of the 1st round ( inlcuding maybe better than Mann). .....or....or.... he becomes Zach Lavine ish, stop on a dime pull-up guy with less 3pts but better shake. really cool ball handler+shot maker. Could look like a mix between Lou Williams and Zach Lavine. on O. Showcases some elite burst in the P&R downhill.. maybe he can build on this more in the P&R.
Has a natural lean/fade on his J, often times - kinda like Iverson —- but he won’t be able to do that from nba 3. And on his 3s he often has this shoulders-back fade less, so that’s good. The lean ability on his jumper in midrange is shades of Lou Williams, not as much lean though...it’s smoothly advantageous sometimes - to keep moving in the direction you’re going away from the defender into J. . Really good professional scoring prospect, it’s all there. 3pt just needs natural progression.


17. Giddey I like to compare and contrast him with Lamelo - not at all because they played in the same league - but because they have athletic traits that are perfect to compare/contrast. They're both very upright athletes/handlers --- they're tall and don't have good bend. Luka has great bend, he has a low butt, low center of gravity - he doesn't need to be quick, he gets to where he wants unimpeded because he has great pace and low center of gravity.
Lamelo and Giddey are different...... they dribble upright and defenders can get into their bodies. Schmitz and other videos show a lot of lowlights of Giddey struggling handling the ball - specifically when defenders get into him - he's so upright that they can kind of impede him and force him where they want. Lamelo is elusive enough at the drop of a dime to where he pulls out a nice dribble move to Matador the defender ----- Lamelo has a reactive handle that is nice and he's agile with it. Giddey doesn't have this agility or handle. They both have a similar flaw, but Lamelo has the tool to make it a small problem. I think Giddey's high hips also effect his jumper - Giddey doesn't sink his hips well on his jumper & it makes it very disjointed 2motion just like Ricky Rubio --- another high hip upright player - niether sink their hips well and both have clunky 2motion jumpers for this reason. Think of how Nash would sink his hips getting into his jumper, and come up so smooth... will this ever be possible for Giddey, or will he always have the Rubio jumper? Lamelo again shows he's a better athlete with his elevation on his jumper, and the ability to swing his legs forward in the air - fluid hips do this.
Giddey has upside of being a lead engine for a team... but I'm concerned about his ball handling, how he handles pressure, his jumpshot, and teams going under screens to neuter his offense. His defensive shortcomings are also kind of glaring - he gets blown by.



18. Keon Johnson: I want to say - "best athlete in the last couple of drafts"... but Kai Jones makes me only call Keon the best -wing- athlete. one reason is because he uses the athleticism at every chance he can on the court. Like a SG Shawn Marion he's so active; even sprinting the court to the offensive side as a SG.. this is kinda rare today. Crazy defensive potential as his athleticism is clear sliding his feet. Gets to the apex of his jump crazy fast. His jumper is so far away. Drafting him is a huge swing for upside.
..... you could argue for him above many players in this tier, as most have big red flags - but his jumper is the brightest red.. He would be the coolest player if he panned out though.


19. Duarte - prototype modern SG offensively.. not the lowest ceiling either. IQ team defender, anticipatory steals guy. . I was concerned about his wingspan, but thinking of other successful shooters with small wingspans - he's got the defensive chops and athleticism to be ok on that side... I guess I'll excuse the age by saying "it's like a euro coming over" - he can be SG Bojan Bodanovic then haha. Or Ingles. Lets call him Euro Devin Booker and draft him. At the least on top of the shooting I like: the first step, the finishing capability //// in the league he'll at least have a solid handle and be able to be a tertiary playmaker in a lineup..- Kind of like what Svi's best case-scenerio was , Duarte can make those plays.. and defend. He stops on a dime really quick for his 2 dribble pull-up J. Solid separator on the step back too, and on quick crosses... he can separate for a traditional SG (doesn't have a combo G handle but a good handle for a SG)



20. Jalen Johnson - I want to like him.. I love PFs who can push, create, pass, and he’s an athlete.. He reminds me of a naturally more talented Kuzma, but without a jumper.... Blue Chip Kuzma with a penchant for passing.
but that jumpshot form is broke. Without the jumper he’s not going to be a starting level player.. With a jumper he could be Julius Randle-ish on offense, and better on defense.
He has that typical 6’9+ ball handler flaw - where he barrels into defenders and gets charges; tough that size in tight spaces to not be clunky... All 6’9+ ball handlers need a jumper. Ben Simmons is unique , the elite speed/quicks/bend (and you see this on both ends) , so he can be good in tight spaces.. especially with his legit PG passing. Back to Jalen: hope he doesn’t develop a hitch, it’s close but the hitch is shown on fade-aways which are hang in the air shots - these lend to poor energy transfer / less smoothness. So as long as the hitch isn’t there on Spot-ups and 3s it’s ok. His release is similar to early career Blake Griffin. Delayed and rigid... and fearful of a hitch. Blake’s form smoothened out from 3 ———- jumping less high on jumpers can help smoothen out a stroke and shoot at peak, because you don’t have to hang —- with less jump it’s all stroke ; you jump only as high as needed to complete the stroke. He has a stroke that’s trying to be completely without wasted motion, short and compact - but this can eliminate rhythm and naturalness. Blake’s was the same, just with more lift on midrange. But I can see him becoming an average shooter in 5 years. Off the dribble shooting is a less encouraging story and projection though.... and that would unleash his upside... I doubt that comes. Moves great laterally on D, could be a very nice piece as a 1v1 defender... So his floor could be a 3&D role similar to Kuzma (bad Kuzma shooting year)... but JJ will make more plays creating and passing.. that’s one outcome of his floor... Or, more Josh Smith-like.


————————————————
Slightly higher level of iffiness than the last tier, and slightly less upside for most

21. David Johnson : Long 6’5+ combo guard. Quick processing passer. Great P&R reads / skips with both hands. Nice set-ups for bigs in the P&R,look-off passes to them. Doesn’t like ball pressure combined with having to create in the halfcourt.. the handle in general is still combo guard solid.. but it could limit him. Main flaw is shooting off the bounce..but his 3s off the bounce look better than pull-up 2s...
solid 1v1 and instinctual help defender - he always pops up under the basket on a help assignment, often he just has to put his arms up and they miss - he's a thick body that switches well onto bigs too. Could be more attentive - needs to stay connected to his man better. When 6’9 Mathew Hurt got hot for Duke, they put David on him - and he did well with his thick frame and length..bothered Hurt. Some nice blocks at the rim in help. Better rebounder than Josh Hart IMO.. has a higher max reach. Special passer for a big combo G. Improved his 3pt% to 38% on small-medium amount of attempts. Form is iffy. Really needs to work on his short range shots.
Mid January he was in everybody's top 20; now he's mid 2nd.. 36% assist % as a Freshman, 2.8% STL, although only 15mpg. Moved more to SG as a Soph.
A comp is Terrance Mann, DJ's a better passer but less of the wing finishing ability .
His realistic floor ? : he’ll be a great rebounder at the 2, a really good team defender, a good secondary playmaker on a play - say the ball is kicked ahead to him in transition, he can make a nice play or pass..and his C&S will be Caruso level at worst. All that = a better Caruso, considering his athl profile and passing. (Not saying he’ll be Caruso in full defensively, but this kid will be an above avg defender.)



22. Jared Butler - seems like a safe bet.. He wouldn't even be a 'wow' pick for the Lakers, but he would be solid. Maybe the best handle in the class - he just doesn’t get downhill with it /attack rim from it like you’d like to see.
He’s a threat shooting every type of jumper. Good passer. good defender. Doesn't drive hard through lane, dribbles slow through it; finishing doesn’t project well next level. Surprised at his 1v1 defensive chops - had a nice block on a floater of McBride and McBride is a great athlete and large for a guard. One of the safest picks in the 1st round. Looks a bit small for 6’3, but has instances of playing bigger on defense.



23. Terrance Shannon Jr: Scoring skill kind of reminds me of Xavier Henry - maybe it's just the shooting stroke - it's similar, he gets elevation on it often times similar to X in the midrange...also really explosive like Xavier. but a better defender.. has some slippery steps through the lane. Different from X: shows real shake/separation on his crossover pretty often - He's got some upside; decent shot-maker inside the arc too. Classic lefty wrist flick. This kids a player. Sparkplug energy player - could be a better Kelly Oubre. About 2 inches shorter. Another player in this archetype is Dillon Brooks. - Energy wings who can do some skill stuff. Shannon Jr looks like a blue chip version of
Brooks (Brooks’ devoid of length and above avg mobile athleticism). Putting him over Ziaire because less red flags.


24. Tre Mann - 6th man CJ Mccullum. Great space creator. Will he be a Lou Williams level defender? He should be a lock to be a good scorer off the bench



25. Roko Prkacin - interesting prospect. 6'9 skilled big with handling that should develop, and great passing.. big hands, length and some big dunks. 18 years old. Not sure if his body is going to develop into a small ball 5, he's really strong. Croatian - very reminiscent of Kucoc actually.. if there was a modern even more mobile version. very fluid.
Jumper form is decent and can be built on. Maybe he's what Saric was supposed to be coming out of the draft(he was more mobile then) ; but Roko is a much better athlete. Only seen a couple possessions of him sliding his feet and he looked like a 6'9 guy doing it, not bad. I'm interested. He's huge and can do a crossover into a stepback 3. His jumper needs some time but it should get there. Who's a comp for him today? unique player, hard to visualize him.. I guess if Olynyk can be out there dribbling, Roko can too, and if so then he'll be making some great passes... I'm not convinced his dribble moves are above average, sometimes he can't shake guys at his position - but his moves have potential.
He has a clear path to being good, and having good functionality on O - he does PF stuff well plus he has cherries on top of that..which can really develop. By year 3 there’s a good chance he looks good..he’s raw, but someone clear to see the plug-ability.. He’s one of the raw players Im most optimistic to see in year 3. Shoots on the way down right now; leads to short misses..he’ll get better w/ that.



26. Grimes I don't get why he's not talked more about in this range. Wouldn't surprise me if he ends up as good as Moody. Good 2way prototype shooter SG.


27. Ziaire Williams - Not sure what to make of him.... Big risk.
. The 3pt % is just so low. But his form is halfway decent. His handle is loose but decently effective. Really skinny. Another upside shot in the dark, of this draft. He and Cam Reddish are pretty similar. Reddish the better defender and more likely to be good.


28. Kuminga - Sure he's a great athlete - but functionally it doesn't get used as close to as much as Keon, or even Kai. He doesn't have a natural feel , ---- his skill kind of falls apart in a game and he makes mistake after mistake trying to do too much - it's like early career Aaron Gordon. Big time athlete --- but he thinks he can handle the ball, pass.. and it just looks clunky and not natural a lot of times. He's not a particularly good defender. He can't shoot. He likes to bully his way on drives - but he's not the thickest body - I don't know how this is going to go at the next level.. He gets featured more in the Gleague than he will in the NBA; I'm scared he's just going to flounder.. like a Jeff Green.
For his body type, you'd like to see him as skilled as Rui.. but Rui is so much more polished, and not only because he can shoot a lot better. In 7 of his 13 Gleague games he had 3+ turnovers. Also in 7 games he shot 38% or worse, and that ended up being his season avg %. He needs the skill level of Miles Bridges, but that's going to take a long time - I hope he can work out the clunkiness and also get a jumper. His handle on his highlight reel is a lot better than his median handle in a given game. I think these are accurate upside comps for him... But even Gordon's jumper was a full year ahead of Kuminga at the same age... Plus he wants to be able to shoot off the dribble which is tough...a tough skill to master for a 6'8 dual forward body-type.. . I see him behind Aaron Gordon by age - and Gordon's skill development was a long bumpy ride... I personally see Jeff Green.
After the top 4 in this draft, there's nothing but raw players, and then the non-raw guys have big holes.. So there will be a lot of swings/shots in the dark in this draft. If you want to take a swing on Kuminga, I don't too much mind it.......



29. Trey Murphy - Wagner and Moody are better defenders.. but it doesn’t mean that this kid doesn’t do above average stuff himself. Wagner gets more disruptive contests and makes shooters/creators more uncomfortable. For some reason Murphy doesn’t have the knack to really bother shooters/creators as he should - he’s only very solid at it. he’s just solid in his presence with his length and effort, but not special. Maybe it’s because he can’t get into the offensive player’s body because he’s not strong - Wagner does that and gets a great contest. He is on-beat contesting which is something to always look for , and it’s good - he’s there contesting.. Gives effort every time to use that length and contest well, but it doesn’t effect the shooter too greatly - that’s a knack and he doesn’t quite have it. But by his effort+length he is solid and a boon defensively. I would be confident sticking him on Booker and doing a solid job - his length might not make Booker change his form but there’s a chance. For sure he can stay with a Booker above averagely for a SF.
Great shooter... Not as high of a form as you'd like to see - but he has a quick set-up with his feet. He's also not completely inept off the dribble, some nice dribble moves ---- he just can't shoot off the dribble or finish if it's not a dunk. For all intents and purposes I'll forget about those good dribble moves in projecting him -- but maybe it portends well for him attacking closeouts. Really good feet and hips defensively for size. Similar length to Ingram. Always has his arms up to try to get a disruptive contest or get his hands on a ball. Solid.


30. Jericho Simms - he has really quick pop off the floor. combined with an easily high catch radius. and great lateral mobility.. good shot blocking instincts. It always seems like there's a Capela looking prospect every year... but Simms is the closest I think. Some Centers don't naturally have the high lob radius. Simms naturally is that high outlet, he gets up easy and quick.


31. Dosumnu - seems to have a pretty direct road to being a beneficial NBA player.. just has to get a half-tick better shooting.. not sure if he'll get there but maybe. Talented 2way SG.

32. Isaiah Jackson - great athlete; could be a valuable defender w/his size in the P&R. some nice stuff on short-rolls too - he drives well on them , natural skill there. Very solid modern defensive Center prospect.


-------------------------------------- still some nice prospects in the next tier.. some are raw and unproven; but they still have a chance to be solid players.



33. Sengun - interesting Center prospect. His defensive lowlights in the P&R are traumatizing. .. stuck in absolute mud worse than Zubac sometimes. But the interesting thing is he shows more agility at other times on O. As well as a promising 3pt shot down the road. Another unique player who I don't know who to comp him to - young Sabonis is much more mobile.
I’d guess that his 6’9 listing is without shoes.. (Drummond is listed at 6’10.)
Offensive mobility for a Center doesn’t always lead to defensive mobility defending the P&R - See Demarcus Cousins also see: Jahlil Okafor (people forget he loved attacking off the dribble from 15ft to get to his hooks — sometimes he used crossovers). A good offensive player but Kanter defensively.... does that just = modernized Kanter? I see upside but can’t get over the mobility.



34. Bones Hyland - another upright ball handler.. not much pure quick- twitch just great dribble moves. Jamal Crawford was upright but had more twitch/wiggle. Not sure he's going to be able to defend.... I hope he can survive on that end, because he'd be a super fun offensive player to watch, and an effective one probably. quite the shooter and he can handle. He has just enough speed to push/keep a pace in transition or semi transition.. that will help his game. Defensively he has instincts in passing lanes ; good hands. He gets shook kind of easily and when he does they really create separation.. Length to contest but he gets shook often. So, on top of getting shook, he doesn’t have the weight or hips to be a good 1v1 defender.....hmm.. Not a finisher at the next level. there is an upside scenario where he’s functionally Jamal Crawford... but that’s probably not so likely. He’s talented though. Shake Milton is another good comp. Lanky ball hanlding quick trigger guards

35. Greg Brown - toolsy. big question marks but maybe they all turn out decent and he's a lower impact unicorn. A bit handsy when he has to slide his feet with wings - but it looks like he's ok there, maybe.. His handle seems to be extremely loose to the point of untrustworthiness of letting him dribble? Haven’t watched enough but 6’9+ guys handling and playmaking is always risky business. Also his jumper form is unorthodox far to the right of his head and almost a hitch in it ———- so the two skills for his upside seem far away. He’ll start in the same role as Jeremi Grant did in OKC - become consistent from the corners, and play defense and be athletic..that step 1 is a hill to climb.
He would be very fun if he panned out though.

36. Gabriele Procida - Form is a bit like Klay. Can do a little bit of other stuff too. Great size. Good prospect. could put him higher if I saw more.

37. Mathew Mayer

38. Rokas Jakubaitis - young raw player but does some cool stuff. Solid ball handler but more of a SG handling style imo. Good head fake hesitation. Does good stuff in the P&R scoring in the midrange, that looks natural, cp3 type stuff on the elbows. Solid passer. Hopefully he develops a 3 with his solid form.

----------

39. Cam Thomas: - functionally, Zach Norvell Jr. with the same defensive questions.

40. Kispert

41. Scottie Lewis

42. Aamir Simms - the next Aaron Baynes. Big big 3pt shooter who can survive defensively.. can really pass too.

43. Preston

44. One of the Champagnie brothers will pan out


note: haven't looked at Christopher yet, but I'd think in the 40s. the lack of length , chucking, specifically with Nick Young shot selection. eh


Last edited by Mark10 45 on Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:37 am; edited 6 times in total
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LakersForever123
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:43 am    Post subject:

Mike@lg. Any thoughts on Santi Aldama. His play reminds me a little bit of Pau Gasol/Toni kukoc. 2nd round steal?
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:20 pm    Post subject:

LakersForever123 wrote:
Mike@lg. Any thoughts on Santi Aldama. His play reminds me a little bit of Pau Gasol/Toni kukoc. 2nd round steal?


I have question marks about him. He's a fluid player, but not enough athl to play one direction or strength to play the other direction.

I'd rather have other 2nd rounders in priority.

Here's one of them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvyE-k3ixGA
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:04 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
LakersForever123 wrote:
Mike@lg. Any thoughts on Santi Aldama. His play reminds me a little bit of Pau Gasol/Toni kukoc. 2nd round steal?


I have question marks about him. He's a fluid player, but not enough athl to play one direction or strength to play the other direction.

I'd rather have other 2nd rounders in priority.

Here's one of them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvyE-k3ixGA



Thanks Mike!
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:55 am    Post subject:

^I wish he could decelerate better. Hoping that gets better with NBA training. Has more handles than he should, should never be a playmaker, and his deceleration improvement is critical to having a healthy bball career.
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