Counter small ball with small ball???

 
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leking006
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:44 pm    Post subject: Counter small ball with small ball???

Is this really a good strategy, I watched all Lakers game this season and this is what I notice.

Everytime the Lakers is inserting their dominance in the paint, the opponent will just insert their small ball lineup.

But what did Vogel counter? A small ball lineup too bit much smaller than other team's lineup.

Suns benched Ayton and put Saric @ C spot, Lakers counter with Harrell and Markieff(Kuzma) frontcourt, resulted in Saric just scored at will in the paint and outside.

In Hornets game, the Hornets insert their small ball and Vogel again countered with the same lineup and almost cost them the game.

Then yesterday, Drumnond is beasting in the paint so Spo countered with a small ball lineup, and Spo decided to bring in Harrell @C and Mckinnie @PF. Really??? And the rest is history.

So this is the best that Vogel can do against small ball lineup of other team? Is there no other way? Because other teams will just do this to them just to take Drummond and Gasol out of the game.

I know, Vogel can probably counter it by putting AD @ C, but until AD is not playing, if they wanna win, Vogel should figure something to counter it without putting a G-League lineup inside.


Last edited by leking006 on Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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HermosaJoe
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 6:05 pm    Post subject:

Agree 100%
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joeblow
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 6:46 pm    Post subject:

Don't overthink it. If we get healthy, we're fine. If we don't, we're doomed.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Counter small ball with small ball???

leking006 wrote:
Is this really a good strategy, I watched all Lakers game this season and this is what I notice.

Everytime the Lakers is inserting their dominance in the paint, the opponent will just insert their small ball lineup.

But what will Vogel counter? A small ball lineup too bit much smaller than other team's lineup.

Suns benched Ayton and put Saric @ C spot, Lakers counter with Harrell and Markieff(Kuzma) frontcourt, resulted in Saric just scored at will in the paint and outside.

In Hornets game, the Hornets insert their small ball and Vogel again countered with the same lineup and almost cost them the game.

Then yesterday, Drumnond is beasting in the paint so Spo countered with a small ball lineup, and Spo decided to bring in Harrell @C and Mckinnie @PF. Really??? And the rest is history.

So this is the best that Vogel can do against small ball lineup of other team? Is there no other way? Because other teams will just do this to them just to take Drummond and Gasol out of the game.

I know, Vogel can probably counter it by putting AD @ C, but until AD is not playing, if they wanna win, Vogel should figure something to counter it without putting a G-League lineup inside.


I dont disagree. Re Joe's comment above, I actually think Vog at times does overthink it
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mad55557777
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:51 pm    Post subject:

You can counter anything if you have AD and lebron since they can both take 1-5, but without them, it would be dumb for Vogel to match small with small. If the other team go small, trezz should be in to punish them
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scout_0
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:07 am    Post subject:

PG.LeBron
SG.KCP
SF.Kuzma
PF.Morris
C.Davis
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leking006
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:04 am    Post subject:

Lakers has the weakest small ball lineup in the league and they keep on using it.

Harrel @ Center
Kuzma/Kieff/McKinnie/Wes @ PF

No paint defense, no proper spacing.
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leking006
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:05 am    Post subject:

scout_0 wrote:
PG.LeBron
SG.KCP
SF.Kuzma
PF.Morris
C.Davis


This is a good small ball lineup, but Vogel preferre Harrell. smh
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Lakerwayne
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:43 pm    Post subject:

When teams go small they should counter with

lebron
Kuzma
morris
Davis
Gasol

or something like that haha slow it down kill them on the boards and pound them in the post against mismatches might sound crazy but I wonder if it would actually work
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:41 am    Post subject:

I believe in punishing small teams for being small.
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CRoost
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:27 am    Post subject: Re: Counter small ball with small ball???

leking006 wrote:
Is this really a good strategy, I watched all Lakers game this season and this is what I notice.

Everytime the Lakers is inserting their dominance in the paint, the opponent will just insert their small ball lineup.

But what did Vogel counter? A small ball lineup too bit much smaller than other team's lineup.

Suns benched Ayton and put Saric @ C spot, Lakers counter with Harrell and Markieff(Kuzma) frontcourt, resulted in Saric just scored at will in the paint and outside.

In Hornets game, the Hornets insert their small ball and Vogel again countered with the same lineup and almost cost them the game.

Then yesterday, Drumnond is beasting in the paint so Spo countered with a small ball lineup, and Spo decided to bring in Harrell @C and Mckinnie @PF. Really??? And the rest is history.

So this is the best that Vogel can do against small ball lineup of other team? Is there no other way? Because other teams will just do this to them just to take Drummond and Gasol out of the game.

I know, Vogel can probably counter it by putting AD @ C, but until AD is not playing, if they wanna win, Vogel should figure something to counter it without putting a G-League lineup inside.


You can’t possibly show your cards when you know you have the advantage when it matters. Phil used to this in the regular season, matching everything and even threw rookies out there. It’s like you don’t shift to another gear when you still can beat them on the first gear. Vogel will make necessary adjustments when it counts
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:56 am    Post subject:

Our version of small ball is AD at the 5. We absolutely will dominate teams being able to switch on everything.
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leking006
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Counter small ball with small ball???

CRoost wrote:
leking006 wrote:
Is this really a good strategy, I watched all Lakers game this season and this is what I notice.

Everytime the Lakers is inserting their dominance in the paint, the opponent will just insert their small ball lineup.

But what did Vogel counter? A small ball lineup too bit much smaller than other team's lineup.

Suns benched Ayton and put Saric @ C spot, Lakers counter with Harrell and Markieff(Kuzma) frontcourt, resulted in Saric just scored at will in the paint and outside.

In Hornets game, the Hornets insert their small ball and Vogel again countered with the same lineup and almost cost them the game.

Then yesterday, Drumnond is beasting in the paint so Spo countered with a small ball lineup, and Spo decided to bring in Harrell @C and Mckinnie @PF. Really??? And the rest is history.

So this is the best that Vogel can do against small ball lineup of other team? Is there no other way? Because other teams will just do this to them just to take Drummond and Gasol out of the game.

I know, Vogel can probably counter it by putting AD @ C, but until AD is not playing, if they wanna win, Vogel should figure something to counter it without putting a G-League lineup inside.


You can’t possibly show your cards when you know you have the advantage when it matters. Phil used to this in the regular season, matching everything and even threw rookies out there. It’s like you don’t shift to another gear when you still can beat them on the first gear. Vogel will make necessary adjustments when it counts


LOL why do this when they are fighting for a playoff spot? They almost lose to a bunch of nobodies.
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CRoost
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Counter small ball with small ball???

leking006 wrote:
CRoost wrote:
leking006 wrote:
Is this really a good strategy, I watched all Lakers game this season and this is what I notice.

Everytime the Lakers is inserting their dominance in the paint, the opponent will just insert their small ball lineup.

But what did Vogel counter? A small ball lineup too bit much smaller than other team's lineup.

Suns benched Ayton and put Saric @ C spot, Lakers counter with Harrell and Markieff(Kuzma) frontcourt, resulted in Saric just scored at will in the paint and outside.

In Hornets game, the Hornets insert their small ball and Vogel again countered with the same lineup and almost cost them the game.

Then yesterday, Drumnond is beasting in the paint so Spo countered with a small ball lineup, and Spo decided to bring in Harrell @C and Mckinnie @PF. Really??? And the rest is history.

So this is the best that Vogel can do against small ball lineup of other team? Is there no other way? Because other teams will just do this to them just to take Drummond and Gasol out of the game.

I know, Vogel can probably counter it by putting AD @ C, but until AD is not playing, if they wanna win, Vogel should figure something to counter it without putting a G-League lineup inside.


You can’t possibly show your cards when you know you have the advantage when it matters. Phil used to this in the regular season, matching everything and even threw rookies out there. It’s like you don’t shift to another gear when you still can beat them on the first gear. Vogel will make necessary adjustments when it counts


LOL why do this when they are fighting for a playoff spot? They almost lose to a bunch of nobodies.


You’re seeing the glass half empty. We are still 4 games ahead of Dallas . While it’s essential to be on the top 6, it’s more critical to be healthy for our playoff run. Even when we at full health, we have disappointing losses too.

Countering teams and playing their game and beat them at their game should be what a contending team does in the regular season. If we are a playoff or bust then I agree, we should utilize our advantage. But for regular season sake, our team should just conceal our advantage and take away teams advantage unless a situation arise that the game matters in the big picture like getting home court advantage etc.
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leking006
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Counter small ball with small ball???

CRoost wrote:
leking006 wrote:
CRoost wrote:
leking006 wrote:
Is this really a good strategy, I watched all Lakers game this season and this is what I notice.

Everytime the Lakers is inserting their dominance in the paint, the opponent will just insert their small ball lineup.

But what did Vogel counter? A small ball lineup too bit much smaller than other team's lineup.

Suns benched Ayton and put Saric @ C spot, Lakers counter with Harrell and Markieff(Kuzma) frontcourt, resulted in Saric just scored at will in the paint and outside.

In Hornets game, the Hornets insert their small ball and Vogel again countered with the same lineup and almost cost them the game.

Then yesterday, Drumnond is beasting in the paint so Spo countered with a small ball lineup, and Spo decided to bring in Harrell @C and Mckinnie @PF. Really??? And the rest is history.

So this is the best that Vogel can do against small ball lineup of other team? Is there no other way? Because other teams will just do this to them just to take Drummond and Gasol out of the game.

I know, Vogel can probably counter it by putting AD @ C, but until AD is not playing, if they wanna win, Vogel should figure something to counter it without putting a G-League lineup inside.


You can’t possibly show your cards when you know you have the advantage when it matters. Phil used to this in the regular season, matching everything and even threw rookies out there. It’s like you don’t shift to another gear when you still can beat them on the first gear. Vogel will make necessary adjustments when it counts


LOL why do this when they are fighting for a playoff spot? They almost lose to a bunch of nobodies.


You’re seeing the glass half empty. We are still 4 games ahead of Dallas . While it’s essential to be on the top 6, it’s more critical to be healthy for our playoff run. Even when we at full health, we have disappointing losses too.

Countering teams and playing their game and beat them at their game should be what a contending team does in the regular season. If we are a playoff or bust then I agree, we should utilize our advantage. But for regular season sake, our team should just conceal our advantage and take away teams advantage unless a situation arise that the game matters in the big picture like getting home court advantage etc.


With that strategy, they will be 2-6 in their next 8 games. Cause I dont see them winning against Celtics, Jazz 2x, Mavs 2x, and Wizards with that. Need better strategy on beating this teams than putting undersized lineup with no spacing. Hoping I am wrong.
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leking006
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:40 pm    Post subject:



Harell no defense compilation this past games with Gasol DNP

If this is a good strategy according to some here, then dont expect Lakers to repeat

Just standing and watching and not even helping on defense.
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